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<00:03:58.575>Yeah, <00:03:58.850>thanks <00:03:59.125>Yvonne. <00:03:59.401>And <00:03:59.676>thanks <00:03:59.952>Rudy.

74
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<00:04:00.205>I'm <00:04:00.345>delighted <00:04:00.485>to <00:04:00.625>be <00:04:00.765>having <00:04:00.905>a <00:04:01.045>cappuccino <00:04:01.185>with, <00:04:01.325>uh, <00:04:01.465>with <00:04:01.605>you.

75
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<00:04:03.325>Um, <00:04:03.605>but <00:04:03.885>yeah, <00:04:04.165>as <00:04:04.445>Rudy <00:04:04.725>said,

76
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<00:04:05.345>I've <00:04:05.519>been <00:04:05.694>in <00:04:05.869>the <00:04:06.044>business <00:04:06.219>a <00:04:06.394>long <00:04:06.569>time.

77
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<00:04:07.205>I'm <00:04:07.345>not <00:04:07.485>so <00:04:07.625>old, <00:04:07.765>uh, <00:04:07.905>Rudy, <00:04:08.045>you <00:04:08.185>can <00:04:08.325>stop <00:04:08.465>saying <00:04:08.605>that,

78
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<00:04:09.925>but <00:04:10.125>you <00:04:10.325>know, <00:04:10.525>I've <00:04:10.725>been <00:04:10.925>around <00:04:11.125>a <00:04:11.325>bit

79
00:04:11.765 --> 00:04:15.025
<00:04:11.765>and, <00:04:11.904>um, <00:04:12.045>yeah, <00:04:12.184>I've <00:04:12.325>worked <00:04:12.464>in <00:04:12.605>job <00:04:12.744>boards <00:04:12.885>since <00:04:13.024>the <00:04:13.165>late

80
00:04:15.305 --> 00:04:17.105
<00:04:15.305>1990s <00:04:15.505>in <00:04:15.705>the <00:04:15.905>uk <00:04:16.105>and <00:04:16.305>this <00:04:16.505>is <00:04:16.704>great

81
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<00:04:17.105>because <00:04:17.280>I'm <00:04:17.455>coming <00:04:17.630>back <00:04:17.805>to <00:04:17.980>a, <00:04:18.155>you <00:04:18.330>know, <00:04:18.505>a,

82
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<00:04:19.665>a <00:04:19.840>tech <00:04:20.015>related <00:04:20.190>community <00:04:20.365>here <00:04:20.540>at <00:04:20.715>we <00:04:20.890>are <00:04:21.065>developers

83
00:04:22.565 --> 00:04:26.025
<00:04:22.565>and <00:04:22.692>that's <00:04:22.819>where <00:04:22.946>I <00:04:23.074>started <00:04:23.201>out <00:04:23.328>with <00:04:23.455>CW <00:04:23.583>Jobs, <00:04:23.710>which <00:04:23.837>is <00:04:23.965>a,

84
00:04:26.435 --> 00:04:28.825
<00:04:26.435>still <00:04:26.610>is <00:04:26.785>a <00:04:26.960>UK <00:04:27.135>job <00:04:27.310>board <00:04:27.485>for <00:04:27.660>IT <00:04:27.835>professionals.

85
00:04:28.925 --> 00:04:31.225
<00:04:28.925>So <00:04:29.080>kind <00:04:29.236>of <00:04:29.391>full <00:04:29.547>circle <00:04:29.702>for <00:04:29.858>me, <00:04:30.013>the <00:04:30.169>difference <00:04:30.325>being,

86
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<00:04:31.225>of <00:04:31.458>course, <00:04:31.691>and <00:04:31.925>now <00:04:32.158>a <00:04:32.391>massive <00:04:32.625>fan

87
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<00:04:33.185>of <00:04:33.535>communities <00:04:33.885>above <00:04:34.235>job <00:04:34.585>boards.

88
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<00:04:35.425>'cause <00:04:35.580>I <00:04:35.736>believe <00:04:35.891>they <00:04:36.047>deliver <00:04:36.202>more <00:04:36.358>value <00:04:36.513>in <00:04:36.669>the <00:04:36.825>long

89
00:04:38.105 --> 00:04:39.145
<00:04:38.105>term <00:04:38.292>when <00:04:38.479>it <00:04:38.666>comes <00:04:38.853>to <00:04:39.041>hiring.

90
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<00:04:39.725>Um, <00:04:40.191>certainly <00:04:40.658>valuable <00:04:41.125>professionals.

91
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<00:04:42.645>Um, <00:04:42.878>really <00:04:43.111>like <00:04:43.344>working <00:04:43.578>on <00:04:43.811>this <00:04:44.044>survey.

92
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<00:04:44.655>It's <00:04:44.836>shown <00:04:45.018>us <00:04:45.200>some <00:04:45.382>great <00:04:45.564>results.

93
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<00:04:45.765>I'm <00:04:45.892>sure <00:04:46.019>we'll <00:04:46.146>get <00:04:46.274>into <00:04:46.401>it <00:04:46.528>later <00:04:46.655>on, <00:04:46.783>but <00:04:46.910>I <00:04:47.037>love <00:04:47.164>that.

94
00:04:48.345 --> 00:04:50.945
<00:04:48.345>I <00:04:48.500>also <00:04:48.656>love <00:04:48.811>sending <00:04:48.967>the, <00:04:49.122>the <00:04:49.278>World <00:04:49.433>conference <00:04:49.589>in <00:04:49.745>Berlin,

95
00:04:51.075 --> 00:04:53.905
<00:04:51.075>which <00:04:51.250>was <00:04:51.425>just <00:04:51.599>mind <00:04:51.775>blowing <00:04:51.950>from <00:04:52.125>the <00:04:52.300>sheer <00:04:52.474>scale.

96
00:04:54.405 --> 00:04:58.185
<00:04:54.405>The <00:04:54.560>content, <00:04:54.716>the <00:04:54.871>conversations, <00:04:55.027>um, <00:04:55.182>I <00:04:55.338>was <00:04:55.493>having <00:04:55.649>with, <00:04:55.804>uh,

97
00:04:58.255 --> 00:05:01.425
<00:04:58.255>both <00:04:58.455>recruiters <00:04:58.655>and, <00:04:58.855>and <00:04:59.055>developers <00:04:59.255>was <00:04:59.455>just <00:04:59.655>phenomenal.

98
00:05:01.485 --> 00:05:03.705
<00:05:01.485>So <00:05:01.685>yeah, <00:05:01.885>really <00:05:02.085>pleased <00:05:02.285>to <00:05:02.485>be <00:05:02.685>here. <00:05:02.885>Expand

99
00:05:03.705 --> 00:05:04.705
<00:05:03.705>On <00:05:03.854>that. <00:05:04.005>Thank <00:05:04.155>you <00:05:04.305>so <00:05:04.455>much. <00:05:04.604>Thank

100
00:05:04.705 --> 00:05:04.905
you.

101
00:05:04.905 --> 00:05:06.185
<00:05:04.905>Thank <00:05:05.097>so <00:05:05.289>much <00:05:05.481>for <00:05:05.673>taking <00:05:05.865>your <00:05:06.057>time

102
00:05:06.965 --> 00:05:08.825
<00:05:06.965>and <00:05:07.164>Adnan <00:05:07.364>as <00:05:07.565>you <00:05:07.765>are <00:05:07.965>the <00:05:08.164>dno <00:05:08.364>sorry,

103
00:05:08.825 --> 00:05:10.585
<00:05:08.825>of <00:05:09.058>we <00:05:09.291>are <00:05:09.525>developers <00:05:09.758>in <00:05:09.991>this <00:05:10.224>round.

104
00:05:10.585 --> 00:05:13.785
<00:05:10.585>Yeah. <00:05:10.740>Even <00:05:10.896>if <00:05:11.051>you <00:05:11.207>look <00:05:11.362>like <00:05:11.518>17 <00:05:11.673>or <00:05:11.829>18. <00:05:11.984>So

105
00:05:15.775 --> 00:05:18.025
<00:05:15.775>Yeah, <00:05:15.950>I <00:05:16.125>take <00:05:16.299>a <00:05:16.474>lot <00:05:16.650>of <00:05:16.825>beauty <00:05:17.000>sleep, <00:05:17.174>uh,

106
00:05:18.615 --> 00:05:19.785
<00:05:18.615>yeah, <00:05:18.966>thanks <00:05:19.317>for <00:05:19.668>invitation.

107
00:05:19.895 --> 00:05:22.985
<00:05:19.895>It's <00:05:20.011>a, <00:05:20.128>it's <00:05:20.245>a <00:05:20.361>real <00:05:20.478>honor <00:05:20.594>that <00:05:20.711>we <00:05:20.828>kick <00:05:20.945>in <00:05:21.061>this <00:05:21.178>new, <00:05:21.294>uh,

108
00:05:23.285 --> 00:05:26.105
<00:05:23.285>new <00:05:23.460>format <00:05:23.635>and <00:05:23.810>I'm <00:05:23.985>very <00:05:24.160>happy <00:05:24.335>to <00:05:24.510>be <00:05:24.685>here.

109
00:05:26.205 --> 00:05:29.385
<00:05:26.205>And <00:05:26.344>as <00:05:26.484>you <00:05:26.625>said, <00:05:26.765>uh, <00:05:26.905>I've <00:05:27.044>been <00:05:27.185>with, <00:05:27.325>uh, <00:05:27.465>VR <00:05:27.604>developers

110
00:05:29.565 --> 00:05:30.625
<00:05:29.565>for <00:05:29.883>quite <00:05:30.201>some <00:05:30.519>time,

111
00:05:30.685 --> 00:05:34.945
<00:05:30.685>and, <00:05:30.825>uh, <00:05:30.965>mostly <00:05:31.105>I'm <00:05:31.245>working <00:05:31.385>in <00:05:31.525>a, <00:05:31.665>uh, <00:05:31.805>new <00:05:31.945>markets <00:05:32.085>engaging,

112
00:05:35.245 --> 00:05:38.025
<00:05:35.245>uh, <00:05:35.445>the, <00:05:35.645>uh, <00:05:35.845>new <00:05:36.045>services <00:05:36.245>from <00:05:36.445>VR <00:05:36.645>developers,

113
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<00:05:38.025>exploring <00:05:38.601>new <00:05:39.177>opportunities.

114
00:05:39.805 --> 00:05:42.185
<00:05:39.805>And <00:05:40.005>of <00:05:40.205>course, <00:05:40.405>I've <00:05:40.605>been <00:05:40.805>overseeing <00:05:41.005>the <00:05:41.205>survey

115
00:05:42.375 --> 00:05:46.425
<00:05:42.375>that <00:05:42.515>we <00:05:42.655>wanna <00:05:42.795>talk <00:05:42.935>about <00:05:43.075>today, <00:05:43.215>um, <00:05:43.355>from <00:05:43.495>the <00:05:43.635>very <00:05:43.775>beginning.

116
00:05:47.245 --> 00:05:51.145
<00:05:47.245>And <00:05:47.420>of <00:05:47.595>course <00:05:47.770>the <00:05:47.945>last <00:05:48.120>one <00:05:48.295>was <00:05:48.470>a <00:05:48.645>real,

117
00:05:51.375 --> 00:05:55.225
<00:05:51.375>real <00:05:51.515>reboot <00:05:51.655>because <00:05:51.795>we <00:05:51.935>had <00:05:52.075>the <00:05:52.215>new <00:05:52.355>colleagues <00:05:52.495>such <00:05:52.635>as <00:05:52.775>Ivana

118
00:05:55.485 --> 00:05:57.845
<00:05:55.485>and <00:05:55.660>John, <00:05:55.835>and <00:05:56.010>that <00:05:56.185>brought <00:05:56.360>a <00:05:56.535>super <00:05:56.710>fresh <00:05:56.885>energy,

119
00:05:57.845 --> 00:06:00.645
<00:05:57.845>and <00:05:58.000>I'm <00:05:58.156>very, <00:05:58.311>very <00:05:58.467>happy <00:05:58.622>that <00:05:58.778>we <00:05:58.933>are <00:05:59.089>discussing <00:05:59.245>the

120
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<00:06:00.645>results <00:06:01.581>today.

121
00:06:03.355 --> 00:06:05.245
<00:06:03.355>Okay. <00:06:03.635>Thanks <00:06:03.915>for <00:06:04.195>this <00:06:04.475>quick <00:06:04.755>introduction,

122
00:06:05.385 --> 00:06:06.645
<00:06:05.385>and <00:06:05.611>I <00:06:05.838>really <00:06:06.065>want <00:06:06.292>to <00:06:06.519>start

123
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<00:06:06.645>with <00:06:06.820>the <00:06:06.995>first <00:06:07.169>question <00:06:07.344>that <00:06:07.520>I <00:06:07.695>want <00:06:07.870>to <00:06:08.044>raise.

124
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<00:06:08.625>And, <00:06:08.780>uh, <00:06:08.936>historically, <00:06:09.091>as, <00:06:09.247>as, <00:06:09.402>as <00:06:09.558>you <00:06:09.713>started <00:06:09.869>doing <00:06:10.025>it,

125
00:06:12.245 --> 00:06:14.685
<00:06:12.245>I <00:06:12.420>want <00:06:12.595>to <00:06:12.770>raise <00:06:12.945>it <00:06:13.120>to <00:06:13.295>Adnan, <00:06:13.470>uh, <00:06:13.645>aan.

126
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<00:06:14.685>What <00:06:14.965>was <00:06:15.245>the, <00:06:15.525>the <00:06:15.805>basic <00:06:16.085>idea?

127
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<00:06:16.405>I <00:06:16.606>mean, <00:06:16.808>I <00:06:17.009>mentioned <00:06:17.211>it <00:06:17.412>briefly,

128
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<00:06:17.745>but <00:06:17.920>what <00:06:18.095>was <00:06:18.270>the, <00:06:18.445>the <00:06:18.620>basic <00:06:18.795>idea <00:06:18.970>why <00:06:19.145>we

129
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<00:06:20.075>conducted <00:06:20.637>this <00:06:21.200>survey?

130
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<00:06:21.465>We <00:06:21.811>started <00:06:22.157>conducting <00:06:22.504>this <00:06:22.851>survey.

131
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<00:06:24.235>Yeah. <00:06:24.375>I, <00:06:24.515>I <00:06:24.655>think <00:06:24.795>the, <00:06:24.935>the, <00:06:25.075>the, <00:06:25.215>the <00:06:25.355>major <00:06:25.495>hypothesis <00:06:25.635>was

132
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<00:06:27.155>that <00:06:27.310>we <00:06:27.466>wanna <00:06:27.621>do <00:06:27.777>something <00:06:27.932>that <00:06:28.088>is <00:06:28.243>very <00:06:28.399>our <00:06:28.554>own.

133
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<00:06:30.705>So <00:06:31.094>a <00:06:31.485>genuine <00:06:31.875>survey

134
00:06:32.595 --> 00:06:36.565
<00:06:32.595>that <00:06:32.828>basically <00:06:33.061>brings <00:06:33.295>in <00:06:33.528>focus <00:06:33.761>developers, <00:06:33.995>uh,

135
00:06:36.745 --> 00:06:38.005
<00:06:36.745>who <00:06:37.028>are <00:06:37.312>much <00:06:37.595>in <00:06:37.879>demand,

136
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<00:06:38.065>and <00:06:38.265>basically <00:06:38.465>they're <00:06:38.665>continuously <00:06:38.865>in <00:06:39.065>demand <00:06:39.265>from <00:06:39.465>the,

137
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<00:06:41.555>from <00:06:41.835>the <00:06:42.115>company <00:06:42.395>perspective <00:06:42.675>and <00:06:42.955>recruiting.

138
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<00:06:44.145>And <00:06:44.358>that's <00:06:44.570>why <00:06:44.784>we <00:06:44.997>call <00:06:45.210>them <00:06:45.423>wanted.

139
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<00:06:45.825>And <00:06:45.980>the <00:06:46.136>other, <00:06:46.291>on <00:06:46.447>the <00:06:46.602>other <00:06:46.758>hand, <00:06:46.913>you <00:06:47.069>have <00:06:47.224>companies

140
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<00:06:48.045>who <00:06:48.200>are <00:06:48.356>really, <00:06:48.511>really <00:06:48.667>trying <00:06:48.822>to <00:06:48.978>reach <00:06:49.133>out <00:06:49.289>to <00:06:49.445>them,

141
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<00:06:50.545>but <00:06:50.778>with <00:06:51.011>a <00:06:51.245>very <00:06:51.478>small <00:06:51.711>or, <00:06:51.945>or,

142
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<00:06:53.545>or <00:06:53.778>difficult <00:06:54.011>way <00:06:54.245>to <00:06:54.478>make <00:06:54.711>a <00:06:54.945>success

143
00:06:56.395 --> 00:06:58.085
<00:06:56.395>then <00:06:56.745>we <00:06:57.094>call <00:06:57.445>them <00:06:57.794>misunderstood.

144
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<00:06:58.345>So, <00:06:58.500>uh, <00:06:58.656>there <00:06:58.811>is <00:06:58.967>a <00:06:59.122>gap <00:06:59.278>between <00:06:59.433>these <00:06:59.589>two <00:06:59.745>groups.

145
00:07:00.665 --> 00:07:03.405
<00:07:00.665>And <00:07:00.840>we <00:07:01.015>wanted <00:07:01.190>to <00:07:01.365>create <00:07:01.540>a <00:07:01.715>survey <00:07:01.890>that <00:07:02.065>tries

146
00:07:03.465 --> 00:07:04.685
<00:07:03.465>to <00:07:03.830>find <00:07:04.197>an <00:07:04.563>answer

147
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<00:07:04.945>or <00:07:05.072>at <00:07:05.199>least <00:07:05.326>a <00:07:05.454>clue <00:07:05.581>how <00:07:05.708>to <00:07:05.835>get <00:07:05.963>these <00:07:06.090>two <00:07:06.217>groups <00:07:06.344>together

148
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<00:07:08.265>to <00:07:08.582>understand <00:07:08.901>each <00:07:09.219>other.

149
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<00:07:10.185>And <00:07:10.360>of <00:07:10.535>course <00:07:10.710>there <00:07:10.885>is, <00:07:11.060>there <00:07:11.235>are <00:07:11.410>a <00:07:11.585>lot

150
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<00:07:12.045>of <00:07:12.220>surveys <00:07:12.395>out <00:07:12.570>there, <00:07:12.745>uh, <00:07:12.920>covering, <00:07:13.095>uh, <00:07:13.270>the <00:07:13.445>topics

151
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<00:07:15.195>that <00:07:15.545>are <00:07:15.895>important <00:07:16.245>for <00:07:16.594>developers.

152
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<00:07:16.865>But <00:07:17.065>we <00:07:17.265>didn't <00:07:17.465>want <00:07:17.665>to <00:07:17.865>ask <00:07:18.065>the <00:07:18.265>question,

153
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<00:07:18.915>what <00:07:19.148>is <00:07:19.381>the <00:07:19.615>most <00:07:19.848>popular <00:07:20.081>coding <00:07:20.315>language?

154
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<00:07:21.145>And, <00:07:21.344>uh, <00:07:21.544>what's <00:07:21.745>the <00:07:21.945>type <00:07:22.145>of <00:07:22.344>your <00:07:22.544>seniority

155
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<00:07:23.745>and <00:07:23.920>why <00:07:24.095>do <00:07:24.270>you <00:07:24.445>want <00:07:24.620>to <00:07:24.795>relocate <00:07:24.970>or <00:07:25.145>not?

156
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<00:07:26.065>We <00:07:26.344>wanted <00:07:26.625>to <00:07:26.905>be <00:07:27.185>very <00:07:27.465>there

157
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<00:07:28.505>and <00:07:28.645>to <00:07:28.784>ask <00:07:28.925>the <00:07:29.065>questions <00:07:29.205>that <00:07:29.344>no <00:07:29.485>one <00:07:29.625>wants <00:07:29.765>to <00:07:29.905>ask.

158
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<00:07:31.665>And <00:07:31.820>therefore, <00:07:31.976>uh, <00:07:32.131>that's <00:07:32.287>something <00:07:32.442>that <00:07:32.598>we <00:07:32.753>managed <00:07:32.909>to, <00:07:33.065>uh,

159
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<00:07:35.145>uh, <00:07:35.344>keep <00:07:35.544>with <00:07:35.745>us <00:07:35.945>for <00:07:36.145>quite <00:07:36.344>some <00:07:36.544>time

160
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<00:07:37.325>and <00:07:37.558>we'll <00:07:37.791>continue <00:07:38.025>to <00:07:38.258>raise <00:07:38.491>these <00:07:38.724>questions

161
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<00:07:39.205>that <00:07:39.405>are <00:07:39.604>sometimes <00:07:39.805>a <00:07:40.005>bit <00:07:40.205>cheeky, <00:07:40.405>you <00:07:40.604>know.

162
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<00:07:42.065>But, <00:07:42.265>uh, <00:07:42.465>sometimes <00:07:42.665>they <00:07:42.865>bring <00:07:43.065>scratch <00:07:43.265>the <00:07:43.465>service

163
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<00:07:45.155>that <00:07:45.505>enough <00:07:45.854>to <00:07:46.205>create <00:07:46.554>discussion.

164
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<00:07:47.265>And <00:07:47.615>from <00:07:47.965>out <00:07:48.315>the <00:07:48.664>discussion,

165
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<00:07:49.565>I <00:07:49.765>think <00:07:49.965>we <00:07:50.165>can <00:07:50.365>come <00:07:50.565>up <00:07:50.765>to <00:07:50.965>solutions

166
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<00:07:51.905>Mm-Hmm. <00:07:52.205>And <00:07:52.505>solve <00:07:52.804>the

167
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<00:07:52.905>problem. <00:07:54.147>Mm-Hmm.

168
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<00:07:54.745>And <00:07:54.945>as <00:07:55.145>it, <00:07:55.345>as, <00:07:55.545>as <00:07:55.745>many <00:07:55.945>studies <00:07:56.145>out

169
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<00:07:56.885>and <00:07:57.060>everybody <00:07:57.235>is, <00:07:57.409>is, <00:07:57.585>is, <00:07:57.760>is <00:07:57.935>conducting <00:07:58.110>some <00:07:58.284>survey

170
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<00:07:59.265>and <00:07:59.440>studies <00:07:59.615>just <00:07:59.789>to <00:07:59.965>give <00:08:00.140>the <00:08:00.315>audience <00:08:00.490>a <00:08:00.664>clue

171
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<00:08:01.485>and <00:08:01.640>a <00:08:01.796>glimpse <00:08:01.951>of <00:08:02.107>the, <00:08:02.262>of, <00:08:02.418>of, <00:08:02.573>of <00:08:02.729>the <00:08:02.885>size

172
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<00:08:03.565>of <00:08:03.862>the, <00:08:04.159>of <00:08:04.456>the <00:08:04.753>study.

173
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<00:08:05.695>Ivana <00:08:05.811>may <00:08:05.928>ask <00:08:06.045>you <00:08:06.161>to <00:08:06.278>give <00:08:06.395>a <00:08:06.511>kind <00:08:06.628>of <00:08:06.745>a <00:08:06.861>quick <00:08:06.978>overview <00:08:07.094>about,

174
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<00:08:09.425>uh, <00:08:09.775>the, <00:08:10.125>the, <00:08:10.475>uh, <00:08:10.825>the

175
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<00:08:13.705>target <00:08:13.905>audience <00:08:14.104>and <00:08:14.305>the <00:08:14.505>size <00:08:14.705>of <00:08:14.905>the <00:08:15.104>study

176
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<00:08:16.465>and <00:08:16.931>some <00:08:17.398>demographic <00:08:17.864>data.

177
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<00:08:19.185>Of <00:08:20.085>course,

178
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<00:08:20.745>Of <00:08:21.045>course. <00:08:21.345>Um, <00:08:21.645>yeah,

179
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<00:08:21.745>so <00:08:21.978>about <00:08:22.211>the <00:08:22.445>methodology <00:08:22.678>of <00:08:22.911>the <00:08:23.145>study.

180
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<00:08:24.025>So, <00:08:24.304>uh, <00:08:24.585>like <00:08:24.864>Adnan <00:08:25.145>mentioned, <00:08:25.424>um,

181
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<00:08:26.705>we <00:08:26.880>basically <00:08:27.055>wanted <00:08:27.229>this <00:08:27.405>year <00:08:27.580>to <00:08:27.755>have <00:08:27.930>both <00:08:28.104>sides.

182
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<00:08:30.185>We <00:08:30.465>wanted <00:08:30.745>to <00:08:31.025>interview <00:08:31.305>HR <00:08:31.585>professionals,

183
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<00:08:32.315>more <00:08:32.595>specifically <00:08:32.875>c-level <00:08:33.155>managers <00:08:33.435>and <00:08:33.715>recruiters.

184
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<00:08:35.005>And <00:08:35.160>on <00:08:35.316>the <00:08:35.471>other <00:08:35.627>hand, <00:08:35.782>we <00:08:35.938>wanted <00:08:36.093>to <00:08:36.249>ask, <00:08:36.405>uh,

185
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<00:08:37.605>developers <00:08:38.071>about <00:08:38.538>their <00:08:39.005>opinions.

186
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<00:08:39.465>So <00:08:39.640>what <00:08:39.815>we <00:08:39.990>did <00:08:40.165>is <00:08:40.340>we <00:08:40.515>conducted <00:08:40.690>two <00:08:40.865>surveys.

187
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<00:08:42.225>The <00:08:42.400>first <00:08:42.575>one, <00:08:42.750>uh, <00:08:42.925>we <00:08:43.100>interviewed <00:08:43.275>thousand <00:08:43.450>200 <00:08:43.625>developers.

188
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<00:08:45.745>So <00:08:46.025>more <00:08:46.305>specifically <00:08:46.585>those <00:08:46.865>are <00:08:47.145>IT

189
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<00:08:47.765>professionals <00:08:48.231>from <00:08:48.698>all <00:08:49.165>levels.

190
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<00:08:49.545>So <00:08:49.719>we <00:08:49.895>have <00:08:50.069>junior <00:08:50.245>developers, <00:08:50.420>we <00:08:50.594>had <00:08:50.770>mid-level <00:08:50.944>developers,

191
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<00:08:53.625>but <00:08:53.859>we <00:08:54.093>also <00:08:54.327>had <00:08:54.560>team <00:08:54.795>leads

192
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<00:08:55.025>and <00:08:55.375>senior <00:08:55.725>developers <00:08:56.074>ac <00:08:56.425>across,

193
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<00:08:56.705>across <00:08:57.055>all <00:08:57.405>kinds <00:08:57.755>of <00:08:58.105>industries.

194
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<00:08:59.065>And, <00:08:59.265>uh, <00:08:59.465>we <00:08:59.665>basically <00:08:59.865>did <00:09:00.065>online <00:09:00.265>interviews, <00:09:00.465>uh,

195
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<00:09:02.045>that <00:09:02.185>we <00:09:02.324>conducted <00:09:02.464>with <00:09:02.604>the <00:09:02.745>help <00:09:02.885>of <00:09:03.025>an <00:09:03.165>agency <00:09:03.305>called <00:09:03.444>Focus.

196
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<00:09:05.705>And, <00:09:06.006>uh, <00:09:06.308>the <00:09:06.609>field <00:09:06.911>work,

197
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<00:09:07.465>the <00:09:07.620>field <00:09:07.776>work <00:09:07.931>period <00:09:08.087>was <00:09:08.242>actually <00:09:08.398>in <00:09:08.553>the <00:09:08.709>first <00:09:08.865>half

198
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<00:09:09.765>of <00:09:09.939>the <00:09:10.115>year, <00:09:10.290>so <00:09:10.465>it <00:09:10.640>was <00:09:10.814>in <00:09:10.990>Q2, <00:09:11.165>2024.

199
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<00:09:12.985>And, <00:09:13.322>uh, <00:09:13.660>the <00:09:13.997>survey <00:09:14.335>area

200
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<00:09:14.665>for <00:09:14.839>the <00:09:15.015>developer <00:09:15.189>survey <00:09:15.365>was <00:09:15.540>basically <00:09:15.714>across <00:09:15.890>whole <00:09:16.064>Europe,

201
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<00:09:19.035>including <00:09:19.268>the <00:09:19.501>United <00:09:19.735>King, <00:09:19.968>the <00:09:20.201>United <00:09:20.435>Kingdom.

202
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<00:09:22.305>So <00:09:22.479>in <00:09:22.655>the <00:09:22.829>second <00:09:23.005>survey <00:09:23.180>we <00:09:23.354>interviewed <00:09:23.530>150 <00:09:23.704>C-level

203
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<00:09:26.005>managers <00:09:26.599>and <00:09:27.193>recruiters.

204
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<00:09:27.665>Mm-Hmm. <00:09:27.805>And, <00:09:27.944>uh, <00:09:28.084>we <00:09:28.224>covered <00:09:28.365>very <00:09:28.505>similar <00:09:28.645>areas <00:09:28.785>like <00:09:28.925>in <00:09:29.064>the,

205
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<00:09:30.945>uh, <00:09:31.085>developer <00:09:31.225>survey, <00:09:31.365>but <00:09:31.505>we <00:09:31.645>focus <00:09:31.785>a <00:09:31.925>bit <00:09:32.065>more <00:09:32.205>on <00:09:32.345>the

206
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<00:09:35.045>locations, <00:09:35.324>France, <00:09:35.604>Germany, <00:09:35.885>again, <00:09:36.165>the <00:09:36.444>UK

207
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<00:09:37.505>and <00:09:37.971>the <00:09:38.438>Netherlands, <00:09:38.905>um,

208
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<00:09:39.385>as <00:09:39.585>we're <00:09:39.785>also <00:09:39.985>very <00:09:40.185>present <00:09:40.385>in <00:09:40.585>those <00:09:40.785>markets.

209
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<00:09:41.785>So, <00:09:41.912>um, <00:09:42.039>and <00:09:42.166>just <00:09:42.294>to <00:09:42.421>make <00:09:42.548>sure <00:09:42.675>what <00:09:42.803>topics <00:09:42.930>we <00:09:43.057>also <00:09:43.185>covered

210
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<00:09:45.925>during <00:09:46.391>our <00:09:46.858>questionnaires, <00:09:47.324>um,

211
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<00:09:48.025>and <00:09:48.165>those <00:09:48.305>can <00:09:48.444>be <00:09:48.584>pretty <00:09:48.725>much <00:09:48.865>summarized <00:09:49.005>into <00:09:49.145>a <00:09:49.285>work <00:09:49.425>life

212
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<00:09:51.925>balance, <00:09:52.275>recruitment, <00:09:52.625>sustainability, <00:09:52.974>mental <00:09:53.324>health,

213
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<00:09:56.265>career <00:09:56.731>growth, <00:09:57.198>and <00:09:57.665>inclusivity.

214
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<00:09:59.185>Mm-Hmm. <00:09:59.824>That's <00:10:00.463>amazing.

215
00:10:01.105 --> 00:10:03.245
<00:10:01.105>Uh, <00:10:01.338>and <00:10:01.571>you, <00:10:01.805>you, <00:10:02.038>you <00:10:02.271>mentioned <00:10:02.505>it,

216
00:10:03.305 --> 00:10:05.645
<00:10:03.305>and <00:10:03.505>that's <00:10:03.704>my, <00:10:03.905>my <00:10:04.104>my <00:10:04.305>question <00:10:04.505>to <00:10:04.704>John.

217
00:10:05.665 --> 00:10:09.885
<00:10:05.665>Now, <00:10:05.865>um, <00:10:06.064>uh, <00:10:06.265>we <00:10:06.464>we <00:10:06.665>also <00:10:06.865>put <00:10:07.064>focus

218
00:10:09.905 --> 00:10:11.005
<00:10:09.905>and <00:10:10.152>focus <00:10:10.400>on <00:10:10.647>the <00:10:10.895>uk.

219
00:10:11.385 --> 00:10:13.565
<00:10:11.385>Was <00:10:11.618>there <00:10:11.851>any <00:10:12.085>specifics <00:10:12.318>in <00:10:12.551>the <00:10:12.785>briefing?

220
00:10:13.625 --> 00:10:16.245
<00:10:13.625>Was <00:10:13.800>there <00:10:13.975>any <00:10:14.150>specifics <00:10:14.325>come <00:10:14.500>depending <00:10:14.675>on <00:10:14.850>the <00:10:15.025>market?

221
00:10:16.405 --> 00:10:18.485
<00:10:16.405>I <00:10:16.605>mean, <00:10:16.805>that's <00:10:17.005>it <00:10:17.204>due <00:10:17.405>to <00:10:17.605>the <00:10:17.805>Brexit

222
00:10:18.485 --> 00:10:20.325
<00:10:18.485>that <00:10:18.718>everybody <00:10:18.951>knows <00:10:19.185>there's <00:10:19.418>a <00:10:19.651>different <00:10:19.885>kind

223
00:10:20.325 --> 00:10:21.405
<00:10:20.325>of <00:10:20.811>situation. <00:10:21.297>Yeah,

224
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<00:10:21.635>Yeah. <00:10:21.814>I, <00:10:21.995>I <00:10:22.175>think <00:10:22.355>we, <00:10:22.535>we

225
00:10:22.635 --> 00:10:25.085
<00:10:22.635>wanted <00:10:22.915>to <00:10:23.194>find <00:10:23.475>out <00:10:23.755>about <00:10:24.035>mobility,

226
00:10:25.265 --> 00:10:27.605
<00:10:25.265>you <00:10:25.465>know, <00:10:25.665>for, <00:10:25.865>for <00:10:26.064>workers <00:10:26.265>in <00:10:26.465>the <00:10:26.665>uk

227
00:10:27.665 --> 00:10:28.885
<00:10:27.665>and <00:10:28.031>also <00:10:28.396>the <00:10:28.763>expectation

228
00:10:28.885 --> 00:10:31.285
<00:10:28.885>of <00:10:29.118>mobility <00:10:29.351>from <00:10:29.585>recruiters <00:10:29.818>in <00:10:30.051>the <00:10:30.285>uk.

229
00:10:31.345 --> 00:10:33.325
<00:10:31.345>So, <00:10:31.578>you <00:10:31.811>know, <00:10:32.045>are <00:10:32.278>they <00:10:32.511>offshoring <00:10:32.745>more,

230
00:10:33.705 --> 00:10:34.725
<00:10:33.705>are <00:10:34.164>they <00:10:34.623>nearshoring?

231
00:10:35.065 --> 00:10:38.965
<00:10:35.065>Um, <00:10:35.240>how <00:10:35.415>does <00:10:35.590>remote <00:10:35.765>work <00:10:35.940>affect <00:10:36.115>that, <00:10:36.290>for <00:10:36.465>example,

232
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<00:10:39.505>and <00:10:39.645>are <00:10:39.785>they <00:10:39.925>targeting <00:10:40.064>specific <00:10:40.205>areas <00:10:40.345>of, <00:10:40.485>uh, <00:10:40.625>of, <00:10:40.765>of <00:10:40.905>Europe,

233
00:10:42.545 --> 00:10:43.925
<00:10:42.545>for <00:10:42.752>example, <00:10:42.959>for <00:10:43.165>different <00:10:43.372>types <00:10:43.579>of <00:10:43.786>skills?

234
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<00:10:44.065>So, <00:10:44.205>you <00:10:44.345>know, <00:10:44.485>um, <00:10:44.625>I <00:10:44.765>think <00:10:44.905>the <00:10:45.045>uk <00:10:45.185>you <00:10:45.325>know, <00:10:45.465>is,

235
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<00:10:48.905>is <00:10:49.138>a <00:10:49.371>unique <00:10:49.605>market <00:10:49.838>in <00:10:50.071>some <00:10:50.305>ways,

236
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<00:10:50.785>but <00:10:50.925>in <00:10:51.064>other <00:10:51.204>ways <00:10:51.344>it, <00:10:51.485>there <00:10:51.625>are <00:10:51.765>some <00:10:51.905>very <00:10:52.045>strong <00:10:52.185>parallels

237
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<00:10:53.645>with <00:10:53.845>how <00:10:54.045>developers <00:10:54.245>feel <00:10:54.444>right <00:10:54.645>across, <00:10:54.845>you <00:10:55.045>know,

238
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<00:10:56.885>the <00:10:57.060>European <00:10:57.235>continent, <00:10:57.410>if <00:10:57.585>you <00:10:57.760>like, <00:10:57.935>including <00:10:58.110>the <00:10:58.285>uk.

239
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<00:10:59.865>And <00:11:00.040>there's <00:11:00.215>some <00:11:00.390>strong <00:11:00.565>parallels <00:11:00.740>on <00:11:00.915>how <00:11:01.090>the <00:11:01.265>challenges

240
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<00:11:02.245>that <00:11:02.445>recruiters <00:11:02.645>have, <00:11:02.845>whether <00:11:03.045>they're <00:11:03.245>based <00:11:03.445>in <00:11:03.645>London

241
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<00:11:04.545>or <00:11:04.895>they're <00:11:05.245>based <00:11:05.594>in <00:11:05.944>Madrid,

242
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<00:11:06.125>or <00:11:06.265>they're <00:11:06.405>based <00:11:06.545>in, <00:11:06.685>um, <00:11:06.825>Paris <00:11:06.965>based <00:11:07.105>in <00:11:07.245>Berlin <00:11:07.385>or <00:11:07.525>Vienna.

243
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<00:11:10.505>Um, <00:11:10.645>so <00:11:10.785>I <00:11:10.925>think <00:11:11.064>we <00:11:11.205>wanted <00:11:11.345>to <00:11:11.485>see <00:11:11.625>if <00:11:11.765>there <00:11:11.905>were

244
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<00:11:12.245>similarities <00:11:12.713>and <00:11:13.180>differences.

245
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<00:11:13.465>And <00:11:13.698>there, <00:11:13.931>and <00:11:14.165>there <00:11:14.398>are <00:11:14.631>both <00:11:14.865>similarities

246
00:11:15.125 --> 00:11:16.525
<00:11:15.125>and <00:11:15.335>differences <00:11:15.545>in <00:11:15.755>this, <00:11:15.965>in <00:11:16.175>this <00:11:16.385>survey.

247
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<00:11:17.065>And <00:11:17.296>I <00:11:17.527>think <00:11:17.758>that <00:11:17.989>was <00:11:18.220>especially <00:11:18.451>pleasing

248
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<00:11:18.605>because <00:11:18.780>when <00:11:18.955>you <00:11:19.130>look <00:11:19.305>at <00:11:19.480>other <00:11:19.655>surveys <00:11:19.830>you've <00:11:20.005>mentioned,

249
00:11:21.165 --> 00:11:22.365
<00:11:21.165>people <00:11:21.525>ask <00:11:21.885>different <00:11:22.245>questions,

250
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<00:11:22.425>but, <00:11:22.564>you <00:11:22.704>know, <00:11:22.844>you <00:11:22.984>can <00:11:23.125>look <00:11:23.265>at <00:11:23.405>surveys <00:11:23.545>from <00:11:23.685>the <00:11:23.824>likes

251
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<00:11:24.805>of <00:11:24.979>Hayes <00:11:25.155>or <00:11:25.329>CBRE, <00:11:25.505>for <00:11:25.680>example, <00:11:25.854>from <00:11:26.030>the <00:11:26.204>states.

252
00:11:28.185 --> 00:11:29.285
<00:11:28.185>And, <00:11:28.382>you <00:11:28.580>know, <00:11:28.779>there's <00:11:28.977>some <00:11:29.175>strong

253
00:11:29.525 --> 00:11:30.685
<00:11:29.525>parallels <00:11:29.733>in <00:11:29.942>what <00:11:30.151>they <00:11:30.360>talk <00:11:30.569>about.

254
00:11:30.945 --> 00:11:33.285
<00:11:30.945>You <00:11:31.225>know, <00:11:31.505>the <00:11:31.785>difficulty <00:11:32.065>in <00:11:32.345>finding

255
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<00:11:33.385>and <00:11:33.540>engaging <00:11:33.696>with <00:11:33.851>top <00:11:34.007>level <00:11:34.162>tech <00:11:34.318>talent <00:11:34.473>is <00:11:34.629>a <00:11:34.785>major

256
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<00:11:37.045>consideration <00:11:37.278>strategically <00:11:37.511>for <00:11:37.745>a <00:11:37.978>lot <00:11:38.211>of <00:11:38.444>businesses.

257
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<00:11:40.025>So <00:11:40.141>anything <00:11:40.258>that <00:11:40.375>you <00:11:40.491>can <00:11:40.608>do <00:11:40.725>to <00:11:40.841>talk <00:11:40.958>to <00:11:41.074>both <00:11:41.191>sides <00:11:41.308>of <00:11:41.425>the,

258
00:11:44.345 --> 00:11:46.565
<00:11:44.345>of <00:11:44.500>the <00:11:44.656>equation, <00:11:44.811>if <00:11:44.967>you <00:11:45.122>like, <00:11:45.278>people <00:11:45.433>who <00:11:45.589>are <00:11:45.745>tasked

259
00:11:46.565 --> 00:11:49.565
<00:11:46.565>with <00:11:46.720>hiring <00:11:46.876>and <00:11:47.031>the <00:11:47.187>people <00:11:47.342>who <00:11:47.498>may <00:11:47.653>wanna <00:11:47.809>be <00:11:47.965>hired

260
00:11:49.665 --> 00:11:51.685
<00:11:49.665>or, <00:11:49.898>you <00:11:50.131>know, <00:11:50.365>need <00:11:50.598>to <00:11:50.831>be <00:11:51.064>hired,

261
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<00:11:52.185>um, <00:11:52.368>that's <00:11:52.552>a <00:11:52.735>good, <00:11:52.919>good <00:11:53.103>thing.

262
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<00:11:53.205>So <00:11:53.345>I <00:11:53.485>think <00:11:53.625>this <00:11:53.765>is <00:11:53.905>what <00:11:54.045>this <00:11:54.185>survey <00:11:54.325>does <00:11:54.465>really <00:11:54.605>well.

263
00:11:55.905 --> 00:12:00.605
<00:11:55.905>It <00:11:56.032>talks <00:11:56.159>to <00:11:56.286>both <00:11:56.414>sides <00:11:56.541>and <00:11:56.668>tries <00:11:56.795>to <00:11:56.923>bridge <00:11:57.050>that <00:11:57.177>gap. <00:11:57.305>Mm-Hmm.

264
00:12:00.685 --> 00:12:02.205
<00:12:00.685>Uh, <00:12:00.856>I <00:12:01.026>think <00:12:01.198>we <00:12:01.369>even <00:12:01.540>called <00:12:01.711>it, <00:12:01.882>you <00:12:02.053>know,

265
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<00:12:02.245>decoding <00:12:02.605>the <00:12:02.965>gap, <00:12:03.325>right?

266
00:12:03.465 --> 00:12:05.965
<00:12:03.465>So, <00:12:03.815>you <00:12:04.165>know <00:12:04.515>Yeah, <00:12:04.865>right.

267
00:12:06.165 --> 00:12:08.565
<00:12:06.165>Decoding <00:12:06.444>the <00:12:06.724>gap <00:12:07.005>between <00:12:07.285>the, <00:12:07.564>the,

268
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<00:12:08.585>the <00:12:08.865>it <00:12:09.145>the <00:12:09.425>software <00:12:09.705>developer <00:12:09.985>professional

269
00:12:10.885 --> 00:12:14.405
<00:12:10.885>and <00:12:11.060>the <00:12:11.235>professional <00:12:11.410>recruiters <00:12:11.585>that <00:12:11.760>are, <00:12:11.935>that <00:12:12.110>are <00:12:12.285>trying,

270
00:12:15.465 --> 00:12:18.565
<00:12:15.465>you <00:12:15.620>know, <00:12:15.776>more <00:12:15.931>and <00:12:16.087>more <00:12:16.242>funny, <00:12:16.398>hard <00:12:16.553>to <00:12:16.709>just <00:12:16.865>Mm-Hmm.

271
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<00:12:18.645>Advertise <00:12:18.969>to <00:12:19.293>find <00:12:19.617>these <00:12:19.941>people.

272
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<00:12:20.685>I <00:12:20.812>mean, <00:12:20.939>you <00:12:21.066>know, <00:12:21.194>that <00:12:21.321>was <00:12:21.448>one <00:12:21.575>of <00:12:21.703>the <00:12:21.830>big, <00:12:21.957>um, <00:12:22.084>things

273
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<00:12:23.045>that <00:12:23.200>came <00:12:23.356>out <00:12:23.511>that, <00:12:23.667>you <00:12:23.822>know, <00:12:23.978>so <00:12:24.133>few <00:12:24.289>of <00:12:24.444>these

274
00:12:26.245 --> 00:12:30.325
<00:12:26.245>software <00:12:26.445>developers <00:12:26.645>are <00:12:26.845>actively <00:12:27.045>searching <00:12:27.245>for <00:12:27.445>work <00:12:27.645>that,

275
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<00:12:30.325>you <00:12:30.480>know, <00:12:30.636>if <00:12:30.791>you're <00:12:30.947>just <00:12:31.102>trying <00:12:31.258>to <00:12:31.413>advertise <00:12:31.569>to <00:12:31.725>them,

276
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<00:12:32.635>it's <00:12:32.810>almost <00:12:32.985>impossible <00:12:33.160>to <00:12:33.335>pull <00:12:33.510>the <00:12:33.685>talent <00:12:33.860>you <00:12:34.035>need.

277
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<00:12:35.505>Do <00:12:35.680>you <00:12:35.855>think, <00:12:36.030>uh, <00:12:36.205>personally, <00:12:36.380>do <00:12:36.555>you <00:12:36.730>personally <00:12:36.905>think

278
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<00:12:37.755>that <00:12:38.035>there's <00:12:38.314>more <00:12:38.595>differences <00:12:38.875>between <00:12:39.155>UK

279
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<00:12:40.285>and <00:12:40.401>the <00:12:40.518>rest <00:12:40.635>of <00:12:40.751>Europe <00:12:40.868>on <00:12:40.985>the <00:12:41.101>HR <00:12:41.218>side <00:12:41.334>or <00:12:41.451>the <00:12:41.568>company <00:12:41.685>side,

280
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<00:12:43.665>or <00:12:44.015>more <00:12:44.365>on <00:12:44.714>developer <00:12:45.064>side?

281
00:12:46.545 --> 00:12:47.765
<00:12:46.545>Do <00:12:46.728>you <00:12:46.911>know <00:12:47.093>what <00:12:47.276>I <00:12:47.459>mean? <00:12:47.643>Um,

282
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<00:12:48.165>I <00:12:48.320>think <00:12:48.476>there's <00:12:48.631>probably <00:12:48.787>more <00:12:48.942>on <00:12:49.098>the <00:12:49.253>developer <00:12:49.409>side <00:12:49.564>for

283
00:12:50.845 --> 00:12:52.525
<00:12:50.845>what <00:12:51.078>we <00:12:51.311>saw <00:12:51.545>in <00:12:51.778>the <00:12:52.011>survey <00:12:52.245>actually.

284
00:12:52.905 --> 00:12:56.645
<00:12:52.905>Um, <00:12:53.060>I <00:12:53.216>think <00:12:53.371>the <00:12:53.527>challenges <00:12:53.682>faced <00:12:53.838>by <00:12:53.993>the, <00:12:54.149>the <00:12:54.305>hr,

285
00:12:56.665 --> 00:12:58.205
<00:12:56.665>the <00:12:56.896>TA <00:12:57.127>teams, <00:12:57.358>you <00:12:57.589>know, <00:12:57.820>the, <00:12:58.051>the,

286
00:12:58.225 --> 00:13:01.405
<00:12:58.225>the <00:12:58.400>talent <00:12:58.575>attraction <00:12:58.750>teams, <00:12:58.925>uh, <00:12:59.100>the <00:12:59.275>recruiters, <00:12:59.450>you <00:12:59.625>know,

287
00:13:01.405 --> 00:13:03.045
<00:13:01.405>the, <00:13:01.685>a <00:13:01.964>recruitment <00:13:02.245>agencies <00:13:02.525>for <00:13:02.805>example.

288
00:13:03.285 --> 00:13:05.085
<00:13:03.285>I <00:13:03.485>think <00:13:03.685>they <00:13:03.885>face <00:13:04.084>the <00:13:04.285>sim <00:13:04.485>similar <00:13:04.685>challenges,

289
00:13:05.085 --> 00:13:07.485
<00:13:05.085>whether <00:13:05.225>you <00:13:05.365>are <00:13:05.505>in, <00:13:05.645>as <00:13:05.785>I <00:13:05.925>say, <00:13:06.065>whether <00:13:06.205>you're <00:13:06.345>in <00:13:06.485>Berlin

290
00:13:07.545 --> 00:13:08.645
<00:13:07.545>or <00:13:07.742>whether <00:13:07.940>you're <00:13:08.139>in <00:13:08.337>the <00:13:08.535>uk.

291
00:13:09.305 --> 00:13:12.725
<00:13:09.305>Um, <00:13:09.479>maybe <00:13:09.655>the <00:13:09.829>UK <00:13:10.005>has <00:13:10.180>some <00:13:10.354>specific <00:13:10.530>challenges <00:13:10.704>now

292
00:13:12.725 --> 00:13:13.845
<00:13:12.725>with <00:13:12.926>Brexit <00:13:13.128>and <00:13:13.329>the, <00:13:13.531>and <00:13:13.733>the,

293
00:13:13.845 --> 00:13:15.325
<00:13:13.845>and <00:13:14.067>the <00:13:14.289>right <00:13:14.511>to <00:13:14.733>work, <00:13:14.955>et <00:13:15.177>cetera.

294
00:13:15.625 --> 00:13:19.205
<00:13:15.625>But <00:13:15.765>they <00:13:15.905>seem <00:13:16.045>to <00:13:16.185>be, <00:13:16.325>uh, <00:13:16.465>being <00:13:16.605>addressed <00:13:16.745>by <00:13:16.885>remote <00:13:17.025>working

295
00:13:19.345 --> 00:13:21.125
<00:13:19.345>and, <00:13:19.625>you <00:13:19.905>know, <00:13:20.185>nearshore, <00:13:20.465>for <00:13:20.745>example.

296
00:13:21.345 --> 00:13:22.525
<00:13:21.345>So, <00:13:22.406>um,

297
00:13:22.645 --> 00:13:25.085
<00:13:22.645>I <00:13:22.819>think <00:13:22.995>everybody's <00:13:23.170>facing <00:13:23.345>a <00:13:23.520>tough <00:13:23.694>challenge <00:13:23.870>finding <00:13:24.045>great

298
00:13:25.605 --> 00:13:28.085
<00:13:25.605>software <00:13:25.805>development <00:13:26.005>talent, <00:13:26.205>and <00:13:26.405>I <00:13:26.605>think <00:13:26.805>great <00:13:27.005>software

299
00:13:28.085 --> 00:13:31.725
<00:13:28.085>development <00:13:28.285>talent <00:13:28.485>also <00:13:28.685>knows <00:13:28.885>its <00:13:29.085>value, <00:13:29.285>therefore, <00:13:29.485>Mm-Hmm.

300
00:13:31.805 --> 00:13:35.525
<00:13:31.805>You've <00:13:31.944>got <00:13:32.084>to <00:13:32.224>really, <00:13:32.364>um, <00:13:32.505>show <00:13:32.645>them <00:13:32.785>why <00:13:32.925>you're <00:13:33.064>a <00:13:33.204>place

301
00:13:35.675 --> 00:13:36.805
<00:13:35.675>that <00:13:35.878>they <00:13:36.081>should <00:13:36.285>come <00:13:36.488>and <00:13:36.692>work,

302
00:13:37.055 --> 00:13:39.045
<00:13:37.055>which <00:13:37.255>is <00:13:37.454>very <00:13:37.655>different <00:13:37.854>from <00:13:38.055>just <00:13:38.255>advertising <00:13:38.454>to,

303
00:13:39.505 --> 00:13:41.005
<00:13:39.505>Did <00:13:39.730>we, <00:13:39.955>did, <00:13:40.180>did <00:13:40.405>we <00:13:40.630>find <00:13:40.855>something?

304
00:13:41.025 --> 00:13:43.445
<00:13:41.025>Or <00:13:41.225>the, <00:13:41.425>was <00:13:41.625>there <00:13:41.824>something <00:13:42.025>in <00:13:42.225>which <00:13:42.425>we,

305
00:13:43.445 --> 00:13:44.765
<00:13:43.445>which <00:13:43.841>we <00:13:44.237>didn't <00:13:44.633>expect?

306
00:13:44.845 --> 00:13:46.885
<00:13:44.845>I <00:13:45.000>mean, <00:13:45.156>that's <00:13:45.311>a <00:13:45.467>question <00:13:45.622>to <00:13:45.778>probably <00:13:45.933>all <00:13:46.089>of <00:13:46.245>you.

307
00:13:47.185 --> 00:13:50.045
<00:13:47.185>Uh, <00:13:47.418>some <00:13:47.651>really <00:13:47.885>surprising <00:13:48.118>factors <00:13:48.351>said, <00:13:48.584>okay,

308
00:13:50.115 --> 00:13:51.485
<00:13:50.115>this <00:13:50.526>was <00:13:50.937>not <00:13:51.348>foreseeable.

309
00:13:51.875 --> 00:13:55.845
<00:13:51.875>Yeah. <00:13:52.050>I <00:13:52.225>think <00:13:52.400>that <00:13:52.575>the, <00:13:52.750>the <00:13:52.925>most <00:13:53.100>fascinating <00:13:53.275>result

310
00:13:55.845 --> 00:13:59.565
<00:13:55.845>for <00:13:55.972>me <00:13:56.099>is <00:13:56.226>that, <00:13:56.354>that <00:13:56.481>I <00:13:56.608>think <00:13:56.735>that <00:13:56.863>the <00:13:56.990>whole, <00:13:57.117>uh, <00:13:57.245>market

311
00:13:59.905 --> 00:14:04.365
<00:13:59.905>of <00:14:00.060>supply <00:14:00.216>in <00:14:00.371>demand <00:14:00.527>is <00:14:00.682>somehow <00:14:00.838>resetting <00:14:00.993>without <00:14:01.149>any <00:14:01.305>notion,

312
00:14:04.395 --> 00:14:07.205
<00:14:04.395>like <00:14:04.569>a <00:14:04.745>very, <00:14:04.920>you <00:14:05.095>know, <00:14:05.270>very, <00:14:05.444>very <00:14:05.620>hidden <00:14:05.795>way.

313
00:14:07.905 --> 00:14:10.605
<00:14:07.905>And, <00:14:08.138>um, <00:14:08.371>as <00:14:08.605>developers <00:14:08.838>want <00:14:09.071>to, <00:14:09.305>uh,

314
00:14:10.615 --> 00:14:13.725
<00:14:10.615>learn <00:14:10.815>about <00:14:11.015>the <00:14:11.215>job <00:14:11.415>opportunities <00:14:11.615>by <00:14:11.815>using <00:14:12.015>LinkedIn.

315
00:14:13.825 --> 00:14:15.765
<00:14:13.825>So <00:14:14.000>that <00:14:14.175>was <00:14:14.350>quite <00:14:14.525>shocking <00:14:14.700>to <00:14:14.875>me, <00:14:15.050>you <00:14:15.225>know,

316
00:14:15.835 --> 00:14:18.845
<00:14:15.835>because <00:14:16.035>not <00:14:16.235>long <00:14:16.435>ago, <00:14:16.635>uh, <00:14:16.835>the <00:14:17.035>holy <00:14:17.235>grail

317
00:14:18.845 --> 00:14:20.845
<00:14:18.845>of <00:14:19.195>recruiting <00:14:19.545>was <00:14:19.895>the <00:14:20.245>referrals.

318
00:14:21.065 --> 00:14:23.925
<00:14:21.065>And, <00:14:21.265>um, <00:14:21.465>maybe <00:14:21.665>they're <00:14:21.865>oversaturated <00:14:22.065>with <00:14:22.265>the <00:14:22.465>number

319
00:14:23.945 --> 00:14:27.205
<00:14:23.945>of <00:14:24.085>referrals, <00:14:24.225>because <00:14:24.365>if, <00:14:24.505>if <00:14:24.645>I <00:14:24.785>want <00:14:24.925>to <00:14:25.065>refer <00:14:25.205>to <00:14:25.345>John

320
00:14:27.435 --> 00:14:28.805
<00:14:27.435>that <00:14:27.681>there <00:14:27.928>is <00:14:28.174>an <00:14:28.421>open <00:14:28.667>position,

321
00:14:28.805 --> 00:14:30.205
<00:14:28.805>maybe <00:14:29.057>I <00:14:29.309>like <00:14:29.561>this <00:14:29.813>company <00:14:30.065>just

322
00:14:30.205 --> 00:14:32.205
<00:14:30.205>because <00:14:30.405>of <00:14:30.605>the, <00:14:30.805>the <00:14:31.005>color <00:14:31.205>of <00:14:31.405>their <00:14:31.605>logo,

323
00:14:32.225 --> 00:14:33.525
<00:14:32.225>and <00:14:32.420>I <00:14:32.615>think <00:14:32.810>John <00:14:33.005>is <00:14:33.200>good <00:14:33.395>fit.

324
00:14:33.825 --> 00:14:36.605
<00:14:33.825>So <00:14:33.965>there <00:14:34.105>was <00:14:34.245>maybe <00:14:34.385>lots <00:14:34.525>of, <00:14:34.665>uh, <00:14:34.805>uh, <00:14:34.945>uh, <00:14:35.085>uh, <00:14:35.225>uh,

325
00:14:36.605 --> 00:14:39.565
<00:14:36.605>misconnections <00:14:36.885>in <00:14:37.165>between <00:14:37.445>developers <00:14:37.725>and <00:14:38.005>companies,

326
00:14:39.565 --> 00:14:42.285
<00:14:39.565>and <00:14:39.720>now <00:14:39.876>they <00:14:40.031>wanna <00:14:40.187>go <00:14:40.342>with <00:14:40.498>the, <00:14:40.653>with <00:14:40.809>the <00:14:40.965>LinkedIn

327
00:14:42.285 --> 00:14:44.685
<00:14:42.285>where <00:14:42.425>they <00:14:42.564>can, <00:14:42.704>when <00:14:42.844>they <00:14:42.985>see <00:14:43.125>the <00:14:43.265>offer, <00:14:43.405>they <00:14:43.545>can <00:14:43.685>go

328
00:14:44.705 --> 00:14:47.965
<00:14:44.705>and <00:14:44.938>investigate <00:14:45.171>what <00:14:45.405>this <00:14:45.638>job <00:14:45.871>role <00:14:46.105>is

329
00:14:47.965 --> 00:14:49.405
<00:14:47.965>and <00:14:48.289>what <00:14:48.613>this <00:14:48.937>company <00:14:49.261>does,

330
00:14:49.505 --> 00:14:52.765
<00:14:49.505>and <00:14:49.660>how <00:14:49.816>they <00:14:49.971>foresee <00:14:50.127>the <00:14:50.282>future <00:14:50.438>in, <00:14:50.593>in, <00:14:50.749>in <00:14:50.905>their,

331
00:14:52.865 --> 00:14:54.005
<00:14:52.865>in <00:14:53.207>their <00:14:53.549>expansion <00:14:53.891>way.

332
00:14:54.745 --> 00:14:56.805
<00:14:54.745>And, <00:14:55.095>um, <00:14:55.445>there's <00:14:55.795>also <00:14:56.145>something

333
00:14:56.805 --> 00:14:58.205
<00:14:56.805>that <00:14:57.057>happened <00:14:57.309>like <00:14:57.561>two <00:14:57.813>years <00:14:58.065>ago.

334
00:14:58.285 --> 00:15:00.605
<00:14:58.285>I <00:14:58.401>remember <00:14:58.518>at <00:14:58.635>the <00:14:58.751>World <00:14:58.868>Congress, <00:14:58.985>we <00:14:59.101>had, <00:14:59.218>uh, <00:14:59.334>we <00:14:59.451>had <00:14:59.568>a <00:14:59.685>test

335
00:15:00.655 --> 00:15:04.125
<00:15:00.655>where <00:15:00.855>we <00:15:01.055>were <00:15:01.255>doing <00:15:01.454>the <00:15:01.655>career <00:15:01.855>advice <00:15:02.055>advising

336
00:15:04.505 --> 00:15:07.365
<00:15:04.505>for <00:15:04.680>developers, <00:15:04.855>and <00:15:05.030>there <00:15:05.205>was <00:15:05.380>like <00:15:05.555>long, <00:15:05.730>long <00:15:05.905>queues,

337
00:15:07.365 --> 00:15:10.525
<00:15:07.365>like <00:15:07.565>thousands <00:15:07.765>of <00:15:07.965>people <00:15:08.165>waiting <00:15:08.365>to <00:15:08.565>get <00:15:08.765>their,

338
00:15:10.625 --> 00:15:11.725
<00:15:10.625>uh, <00:15:11.120>CVS <00:15:11.615>treated.

339
00:15:12.105 --> 00:15:15.245
<00:15:12.105>Mm-Hmm. <00:15:12.305>So <00:15:12.505>nowadays, <00:15:12.705>developers, <00:15:12.905>according <00:15:13.105>to <00:15:13.305>our <00:15:13.505>survey,

340
00:15:15.335 --> 00:15:18.605
<00:15:15.335>wants <00:15:15.510>to <00:15:15.685>showcase <00:15:15.860>their <00:15:16.035>technical <00:15:16.210>abilities <00:15:16.385>through <00:15:16.560>the <00:15:16.735>cv,

341
00:15:18.605 --> 00:15:19.885
<00:15:18.605>through <00:15:18.989>the <00:15:19.373>resume, <00:15:19.757>which

342
00:15:20.025 --> 00:15:22.125
<00:15:20.025>before <00:15:20.258>year <00:15:20.491>two, <00:15:20.725>three <00:15:20.958>ago, <00:15:21.191>it <00:15:21.425>was,

343
00:15:22.295 --> 00:15:24.445
<00:15:22.295>there <00:15:22.495>was <00:15:22.694>the <00:15:22.895>only <00:15:23.094>demand <00:15:23.295>for <00:15:23.495>technical <00:15:23.694>tests.

344
00:15:24.905 --> 00:15:26.605
<00:15:24.905>And <00:15:25.185>nowadays, <00:15:25.464>if <00:15:25.745>you <00:15:26.025>see <00:15:26.305>like

345
00:15:27.215 --> 00:15:30.325
<00:15:27.215>every <00:15:27.390>company <00:15:27.565>is <00:15:27.740>basically <00:15:27.915>doing <00:15:28.090>several <00:15:28.265>technical <00:15:28.440>tests <00:15:28.615>on

346
00:15:30.325 --> 00:15:31.525
<00:15:30.325>different <00:15:30.865>interview <00:15:31.405>stages.

347
00:15:32.225 --> 00:15:35.085
<00:15:32.225>So <00:15:32.380>I <00:15:32.536>think <00:15:32.691>they're <00:15:32.847>oversaturated <00:15:33.002>with <00:15:33.158>this, <00:15:33.313>with <00:15:33.469>this <00:15:33.625>idea,

348
00:15:35.085 --> 00:15:37.045
<00:15:35.085>knowing <00:15:35.365>that <00:15:35.645>cvs <00:15:35.925>at <00:15:36.205>this <00:15:36.485>point,

349
00:15:37.315 --> 00:15:40.205
<00:15:37.315>because <00:15:37.595>of <00:15:37.875>the, <00:15:38.155>uh, <00:15:38.435>uh, <00:15:38.715>the,

350
00:15:40.205 --> 00:15:42.965
<00:15:40.205>because <00:15:40.345>of <00:15:40.485>the <00:15:40.625>advancements <00:15:40.765>in <00:15:40.905>a <00:15:41.045>TS, <00:15:41.185>the <00:15:41.325>services <00:15:41.465>now <00:15:41.605>are,

351
00:15:42.965 --> 00:15:44.245
<00:15:42.965>can <00:15:43.349>scanned <00:15:43.733>the <00:15:44.117>keywords

352
00:15:44.265 --> 00:15:47.205
<00:15:44.265>and <00:15:44.498>cvs <00:15:44.731>are <00:15:44.965>becoming <00:15:45.198>the <00:15:45.431>results <00:15:45.665>driven.

353
00:15:47.505 --> 00:15:49.005
<00:15:47.505>So <00:15:47.730>I <00:15:47.955>think <00:15:48.180>this <00:15:48.405>suits <00:15:48.630>them <00:15:48.855>more

354
00:15:49.005 --> 00:15:52.685
<00:15:49.005>because <00:15:49.205>they <00:15:49.405>can <00:15:49.605>now <00:15:49.805>communicate <00:15:50.005>their <00:15:50.205>technical <00:15:50.405>abilities

355
00:15:52.755 --> 00:15:55.565
<00:15:52.755>through <00:15:52.955>the, <00:15:53.155>through <00:15:53.355>the <00:15:53.555>results, <00:15:53.755>through <00:15:53.955>the, <00:15:54.155>um,

356
00:15:56.065 --> 00:15:58.725
<00:15:56.065>actual <00:15:56.240>tasks <00:15:56.415>they <00:15:56.590>have <00:15:56.765>been <00:15:56.940>doing <00:15:57.115>in <00:15:57.290>a <00:15:57.465>previous,

357
00:15:59.225 --> 00:16:00.365
<00:15:59.225>uh, <00:15:59.567>uh, <00:15:59.909>uh, <00:16:00.251>companies.

358
00:16:00.365 --> 00:16:03.005
<00:16:00.365>Mm-Hmm. <00:16:00.492>And <00:16:00.619>I <00:16:00.746>think <00:16:00.874>it's <00:16:01.001>kind <00:16:01.128>of <00:16:01.255>like <00:16:01.383>a <00:16:01.510>change <00:16:01.637>of <00:16:01.765>mindset

359
00:16:04.065 --> 00:16:07.605
<00:16:04.065>and, <00:16:04.265>uh, <00:16:04.465>companies <00:16:04.665>are <00:16:04.865>quite <00:16:05.065>following <00:16:05.265>that <00:16:05.465>up.

360
00:16:07.835 --> 00:16:11.085
<00:16:07.835>Well, <00:16:07.962>as <00:16:08.089>maybe <00:16:08.216>Wana <00:16:08.344>can <00:16:08.471>tell <00:16:08.598>you <00:16:08.725>more <00:16:08.853>about <00:16:08.980>this, <00:16:09.107>there <00:16:09.235>is

361
00:16:11.605 --> 00:16:13.205
<00:16:11.605>a <00:16:12.071>resolution <00:16:12.538>between <00:16:13.005>developers

362
00:16:13.225 --> 00:16:15.845
<00:16:13.225>and <00:16:13.400>companies <00:16:13.575>that <00:16:13.750>they <00:16:13.925>want <00:16:14.100>to <00:16:14.275>lower <00:16:14.450>the <00:16:14.625>number

363
00:16:15.905 --> 00:16:17.365
<00:16:15.905>of, <00:16:16.343>uh, <00:16:16.781>interview <00:16:17.219>stages.

364
00:16:17.465 --> 00:16:20.485
<00:16:17.465>Mm-Hmm. <00:16:17.620>And <00:16:17.776>so <00:16:17.931>far <00:16:18.087>they, <00:16:18.242>they're, <00:16:18.398>we <00:16:18.553>ask <00:16:18.709>them, <00:16:18.865>okay,

365
00:16:20.625 --> 00:16:23.125
<00:16:20.625>are <00:16:20.780>you <00:16:20.936>okay <00:16:21.091>with <00:16:21.247>one <00:16:21.402>step, <00:16:21.558>two <00:16:21.713>step, <00:16:21.869>three <00:16:22.025>step?

366
00:16:23.705 --> 00:16:26.685
<00:16:23.705>And <00:16:23.905>we <00:16:24.105>have <00:16:24.305>dominant <00:16:24.505>response <00:16:24.705>where <00:16:24.905>everybody <00:16:25.105>wants

367
00:16:26.685 --> 00:16:29.365
<00:16:26.685>to <00:16:26.840>do <00:16:26.996>it <00:16:27.151>in <00:16:27.307>two <00:16:27.462>step, <00:16:27.618>which <00:16:27.773>is, <00:16:27.929>I <00:16:28.084>asked

368
00:16:29.365 --> 00:16:33.085
<00:16:29.365>that <00:16:29.540>on <00:16:29.715>a <00:16:29.890>conference, <00:16:30.065>uh, <00:16:30.240>during <00:16:30.415>summer, <00:16:30.590>like, <00:16:30.765>uh,

369
00:16:33.335 --> 00:16:34.365
<00:16:33.335>who's <00:16:33.798>for <00:16:34.262>this?

370
00:16:34.375 --> 00:16:36.085
<00:16:34.375>Who's, <00:16:34.725>who's <00:16:35.075>pro <00:16:35.425>this <00:16:35.775>idea?

371
00:16:36.545 --> 00:16:39.245
<00:16:36.545>And <00:16:36.685>a <00:16:36.824>lot <00:16:36.964>of <00:16:37.104>people <00:16:37.245>from <00:16:37.385>companies <00:16:37.525>raised <00:16:37.665>the <00:16:37.805>hand <00:16:37.944>saying,

372
00:16:39.385 --> 00:16:40.645
<00:16:39.385>we <00:16:39.668>are <00:16:39.952>already <00:16:40.235>doing <00:16:40.519>this.

373
00:16:40.835 --> 00:16:42.565
<00:16:40.835>That <00:16:41.068>was <00:16:41.301>a <00:16:41.535>shock <00:16:41.768>also <00:16:42.001>to <00:16:42.235>me.

374
00:16:42.845 --> 00:16:44.525
<00:16:42.845>'cause <00:16:43.125>I <00:16:43.405>thought, <00:16:43.685>I'm <00:16:43.965>inventing <00:16:44.245>something

375
00:16:44.525 --> 00:16:45.605
<00:16:44.525>new, <00:16:44.768>I'm <00:16:45.011>saying <00:16:45.254>something <00:16:45.497>new.

376
00:16:45.605 --> 00:16:47.845
<00:16:45.605>No, <00:16:45.838>no, <00:16:46.071>that's, <00:16:46.305>that's <00:16:46.538>already <00:16:46.771>in <00:16:47.005>business.

377
00:16:48.385 --> 00:16:51.365
<00:16:48.385>So <00:16:48.501>I <00:16:48.618>think <00:16:48.735>we <00:16:48.851>have <00:16:48.968>to <00:16:49.085>say <00:16:49.201>this <00:16:49.318>out <00:16:49.435>loud <00:16:49.551>quite <00:16:49.668>more <00:16:49.785>often,

378
00:16:51.625 --> 00:16:55.685
<00:16:51.625>and <00:16:51.765>to <00:16:51.905>encourage <00:16:52.045>both <00:16:52.185>sides <00:16:52.325>to <00:16:52.465>be, <00:16:52.605>uh, <00:16:52.745>to <00:16:52.885>be, <00:16:53.025>uh,

379
00:16:55.685 --> 00:16:57.645
<00:16:55.685>bold <00:16:55.885>in <00:16:56.084>their, <00:16:56.285>in <00:16:56.484>their, <00:16:56.685>in <00:16:56.885>their, <00:16:57.084>their,

380
00:16:57.945 --> 00:17:00.205
<00:16:57.945>in <00:16:58.178>their <00:16:58.411>intentions. <00:16:58.645>How <00:16:58.878>to <00:16:59.111>say, <00:16:59.345>Mm-Hmm.

381
00:17:00.335 --> 00:17:01.565
<00:17:00.335>Sorry, <00:17:00.556>Rudy, <00:17:00.777>just <00:17:00.999>wanna <00:17:01.220>come <00:17:01.442>in.

382
00:17:01.675 --> 00:17:04.485
<00:17:01.675>Something <00:17:01.908>I've <00:17:02.141>done <00:17:02.375>since <00:17:02.608>that's <00:17:02.841>really <00:17:03.074>surprising

383
00:17:04.485 --> 00:17:06.845
<00:17:04.484>to <00:17:04.640>me <00:17:04.796>too <00:17:04.951>was <00:17:05.107>the, <00:17:05.262>the <00:17:05.418>reduction <00:17:05.573>in <00:17:05.729>the <00:17:05.885>number

384
00:17:06.845 --> 00:17:08.845
<00:17:06.845>of <00:17:07.078>interview <00:17:07.311>stages <00:17:07.545>that <00:17:07.778>both <00:17:08.011>sides <00:17:08.245>wanted.

385
00:17:09.025 --> 00:17:10.765
<00:17:09.025>So <00:17:09.491>both <00:17:09.958>developers <00:17:10.425>and,

386
00:17:10.785 --> 00:17:12.885
<00:17:10.785>and <00:17:10.960>the <00:17:11.135>hiring, <00:17:11.310>uh, <00:17:11.485>you <00:17:11.660>know, <00:17:11.835>the <00:17:12.010>recruiters <00:17:12.185>wanted.

387
00:17:13.665 --> 00:17:15.805
<00:17:13.665>But <00:17:13.865>I <00:17:14.065>also <00:17:14.264>wonder <00:17:14.464>whether <00:17:14.665>they're <00:17:14.865>actually <00:17:15.065>referencing,

388
00:17:16.155 --> 00:17:19.205
<00:17:16.155>we'd <00:17:16.295>like <00:17:16.435>sort <00:17:16.575>of <00:17:16.714>almost <00:17:16.855>like <00:17:16.994>two <00:17:17.135>face <00:17:17.274>to <00:17:17.415>face <00:17:17.555>interviews,

389
00:17:19.475 --> 00:17:22.045
<00:17:19.474>because <00:17:19.630>there's <00:17:19.786>a <00:17:19.941>number <00:17:20.097>of <00:17:20.252>other <00:17:20.408>tests <00:17:20.563>and <00:17:20.719>skill <00:17:20.875>sets

390
00:17:22.465 --> 00:17:23.965
<00:17:22.464>and <00:17:22.802>even <00:17:23.139>soft <00:17:23.477>skills <00:17:23.814>and,

391
00:17:23.965 --> 00:17:25.405
<00:17:23.964>and <00:17:24.150>that <00:17:24.335>as <00:17:24.520>well <00:17:24.705>as <00:17:24.890>hard <00:17:25.075>skills <00:17:25.261>being

392
00:17:25.405 --> 00:17:27.125
<00:17:25.405>tested <00:17:25.871>in <00:17:26.338>different <00:17:26.805>scenarios.

393
00:17:27.125 --> 00:17:28.605
<00:17:27.125>And <00:17:27.291>whether <00:17:27.458>they <00:17:27.624>see <00:17:27.790>that <00:17:27.957>as <00:17:28.124>an <00:17:28.290>interview <00:17:28.457>stage

394
00:17:28.605 --> 00:17:31.165
<00:17:28.605>or <00:17:28.760>they <00:17:28.916>see <00:17:29.071>that <00:17:29.227>as <00:17:29.382>just <00:17:29.538>part <00:17:29.693>of <00:17:29.849>the <00:17:30.005>experience,

395
00:17:31.485 --> 00:17:32.685
<00:17:31.485>I <00:17:31.701>think <00:17:31.917>is <00:17:32.132>an <00:17:32.349>interesting <00:17:32.565>point.

396
00:17:33.105 --> 00:17:35.085
<00:17:33.105>So <00:17:33.232>for <00:17:33.359>me, <00:17:33.486>when <00:17:33.614>I <00:17:33.741>was <00:17:33.868>talking <00:17:33.995>to <00:17:34.123>people <00:17:34.250>again <00:17:34.377>at <00:17:34.505>the,

397
00:17:35.085 --> 00:17:36.405
<00:17:35.085>at <00:17:35.322>the <00:17:35.560>summer <00:17:35.797>conference, <00:17:36.035>you <00:17:36.273>know,

398
00:17:36.925 --> 00:17:39.005
<00:17:36.925>software <00:17:37.158>developers <00:17:37.391>asking <00:17:37.625>those <00:17:37.858>kind <00:17:38.091>of <00:17:38.325>questions,

399
00:17:39.665 --> 00:17:41.565
<00:17:39.665>it <00:17:39.805>was <00:17:39.945>like, <00:17:40.085>yeah, <00:17:40.225>you <00:17:40.365>know, <00:17:40.504>I'd <00:17:40.645>like <00:17:40.784>a <00:17:40.925>two <00:17:41.065>stage

400
00:17:41.635 --> 00:17:42.725
<00:17:41.635>into, <00:17:41.831>and <00:17:42.027>what <00:17:42.223>does <00:17:42.419>that <00:17:42.616>mean?

401
00:17:42.725 --> 00:17:45.245
<00:17:42.725>It <00:17:42.865>means <00:17:43.004>I've, <00:17:43.145>I've <00:17:43.284>met <00:17:43.425>the <00:17:43.564>people <00:17:43.705>I'm <00:17:43.844>working <00:17:43.985>with <00:17:44.125>twice,

402
00:17:45.705 --> 00:17:47.565
<00:17:45.705>you <00:17:45.905>know, <00:17:46.105>I <00:17:46.304>might <00:17:46.504>do <00:17:46.705>some <00:17:46.905>other <00:17:47.105>tests,

403
00:17:47.745 --> 00:17:49.965
<00:17:47.745>but <00:17:47.919>I <00:17:48.094>see <00:17:48.270>those <00:17:48.445>as <00:17:48.620>just <00:17:48.794>tests <00:17:48.969>and <00:17:49.145>skill-based.

404
00:17:50.225 --> 00:17:51.405
<00:17:50.225>So <00:17:50.437>I'm <00:17:50.649>fine <00:17:50.862>to <00:17:51.074>do <00:17:51.287>those

405
00:17:51.405 --> 00:17:53.765
<00:17:51.405>because, <00:17:51.545>you <00:17:51.685>know, <00:17:51.825>I <00:17:51.965>can <00:17:52.105>set <00:17:52.245>aside <00:17:52.385>an <00:17:52.524>hour <00:17:52.665>to <00:17:52.805>do

406
00:17:53.765 --> 00:17:55.405
<00:17:53.765>that <00:17:53.940>at <00:17:54.115>any <00:17:54.290>time <00:17:54.465>in <00:17:54.640>the <00:17:54.815>next <00:17:54.990>two <00:17:55.165>days.

407
00:17:55.435 --> 00:17:56.525
<00:17:55.435>It's <00:17:55.680>not <00:17:55.925>really <00:17:56.170>an <00:17:56.416>interview,

408
00:17:56.825 --> 00:17:58.565
<00:17:56.825>I'm <00:17:57.105>just <00:17:57.385>showing <00:17:57.665>showcasing <00:17:57.945>my <00:17:58.225>skills.

409
00:17:59.225 --> 00:18:00.525
<00:17:59.225>So <00:17:59.419>I <00:17:59.615>thought <00:17:59.810>that <00:18:00.005>was <00:18:00.200>really <00:18:00.395>interesting.

410
00:18:00.525 --> 00:18:01.565
<00:18:00.525>And <00:18:00.681>the <00:18:00.837>great <00:18:00.993>news, <00:18:01.149>of <00:18:01.305>course, <00:18:01.461>is

411
00:18:01.565 --> 00:18:02.725
<00:18:01.565>that <00:18:01.826>the <00:18:02.087>recruiters <00:18:02.348>also <00:18:02.609>agree

412
00:18:02.725 --> 00:18:04.485
<00:18:02.725>and <00:18:02.958>said, <00:18:03.191>yeah, <00:18:03.425>actually <00:18:03.658>we <00:18:03.891>don't <00:18:04.125>need

413
00:18:04.525 --> 00:18:05.645
<00:18:04.525>a <00:18:04.861>seven <00:18:05.197>stage <00:18:05.533>interview.

414
00:18:05.645 --> 00:18:06.845
<00:18:05.645>Because <00:18:05.915>I <00:18:06.185>think, <00:18:06.455>you <00:18:06.725>know,

415
00:18:06.845 --> 00:18:08.565
<00:18:06.845>when <00:18:07.045>you <00:18:07.245>did <00:18:07.445>the <00:18:07.645>survey <00:18:07.845>a <00:18:08.045>year <00:18:08.245>ago,

416
00:18:08.565 --> 00:18:10.165
<00:18:08.565>everybody's <00:18:08.845>saying <00:18:09.125>it's <00:18:09.405>three <00:18:09.685>stages, <00:18:09.965>right?

417
00:18:10.695 --> 00:18:12.725
<00:18:10.695>Three <00:18:11.044>stages <00:18:11.395>that <00:18:11.745>premium <00:18:12.095>preference,

418
00:18:12.725 --> 00:18:13.965
<00:18:12.725>and <00:18:12.910>now <00:18:13.097>they're <00:18:13.283>saying, <00:18:13.468>actually <00:18:13.655>it's <00:18:13.841>two.

419
00:18:14.265 --> 00:18:17.765
<00:18:14.265>And <00:18:14.405>I <00:18:14.545>think <00:18:14.685>that <00:18:14.825>might <00:18:14.965>be <00:18:15.105>the <00:18:15.245>advancement <00:18:15.385>of <00:18:15.525>technology, <00:18:15.665>uh,

420
00:18:18.205 --> 00:18:19.245
<00:18:18.205>enabling <00:18:19.140>recruiters

421
00:18:19.245 --> 00:18:21.645
<00:18:19.245>to <00:18:19.478>make <00:18:19.711>hiring <00:18:19.945>decisions <00:18:20.178>based <00:18:20.411>on <00:18:20.645>skills,

422
00:18:21.745 --> 00:18:22.925
<00:18:21.745>um, <00:18:22.099>tests, <00:18:22.453>et <00:18:22.807>cetera.

423
00:18:24.135 --> 00:18:27.205
<00:18:24.135>Ivana, <00:18:24.368>what, <00:18:24.601>what <00:18:24.835>did <00:18:25.068>you <00:18:25.301>find <00:18:25.535>surprising

424
00:18:27.205 --> 00:18:28.645
<00:18:27.205>or <00:18:27.420>what <00:18:27.637>to <00:18:27.853>see <00:18:28.069>as <00:18:28.284>a <00:18:28.501>trend?

425
00:18:28.745 --> 00:18:31.965
<00:18:28.745>If <00:18:28.945>we, <00:18:29.145>we <00:18:29.344>take <00:18:29.544>the <00:18:29.745>results, <00:18:29.945>uh, <00:18:30.145>uh,

426
00:18:32.185 --> 00:18:35.805
<00:18:32.185>is <00:18:32.360>there <00:18:32.534>something <00:18:32.710>which <00:18:32.885>say <00:18:33.060>companies <00:18:33.235>should <00:18:33.409>focus <00:18:33.585>on

427
00:18:35.805 --> 00:18:37.325
<00:18:35.805>because <00:18:36.261>it's <00:18:36.717>becoming <00:18:37.173>more

428
00:18:37.325 --> 00:18:38.925
<00:18:37.325>and <00:18:37.675>more <00:18:38.025>important <00:18:38.375>for <00:18:38.725>developers?

429
00:18:40.165 --> 00:18:41.485
<00:18:40.165>Absolutely. <00:18:40.462>I <00:18:40.759>think <00:18:41.055>that <00:18:41.352>Adnan

430
00:18:41.485 --> 00:18:44.165
<00:18:41.485>and <00:18:41.640>John <00:18:41.796>actually <00:18:41.951>raised <00:18:42.107>a <00:18:42.262>very, <00:18:42.418>a <00:18:42.573>couple <00:18:42.729>of <00:18:42.885>very

431
00:18:44.685 --> 00:18:47.325
<00:18:44.685>interesting <00:18:44.918>points <00:18:45.151>also <00:18:45.385>talking <00:18:45.618>about <00:18:45.851>the <00:18:46.085>fact

432
00:18:47.325 --> 00:18:50.765
<00:18:47.325>that <00:18:47.525>developers <00:18:47.725>and <00:18:47.925>HR <00:18:48.125>professionals <00:18:48.325>should <00:18:48.525>be <00:18:48.725>more

433
00:18:50.765 --> 00:18:52.325
<00:18:50.765>and <00:18:51.045>more <00:18:51.325>moving <00:18:51.605>towards <00:18:51.885>each <00:18:52.165>other

434
00:18:52.545 --> 00:18:55.965
<00:18:52.545>and <00:18:52.720>finding <00:18:52.895>more <00:18:53.070>alignment, <00:18:53.245>not <00:18:53.420>only <00:18:53.595>in <00:18:53.770>their <00:18:53.945>expectations,

435
00:18:55.985 --> 00:18:57.565
<00:18:55.985>but <00:18:56.334>also <00:18:56.685>in <00:18:57.034>their <00:18:57.385>communications.

436
00:18:57.965 --> 00:19:00.285
<00:18:57.965>I <00:18:58.139>mean, <00:18:58.314>we've <00:18:58.490>seen <00:18:58.665>in <00:18:58.840>previous <00:18:59.014>tech <00:18:59.189>Recruiting <00:18:59.365>Academy

437
00:19:00.485 --> 00:19:03.325
<00:19:00.485>episodes, <00:19:00.718>which <00:19:00.951>is <00:19:01.185>our <00:19:01.418>online <00:19:01.651>webinar, <00:19:01.885>um,

438
00:19:03.495 --> 00:19:06.885
<00:19:03.495>where <00:19:03.695>we <00:19:03.895>discussed <00:19:04.094>a <00:19:04.294>lot <00:19:04.495>of, <00:19:04.695>um, <00:19:04.895>miscommunications

439
00:19:07.025 --> 00:19:08.925
<00:19:07.025>and <00:19:07.225>also <00:19:07.425>what <00:19:07.625>people <00:19:07.825>expected <00:19:08.025>from <00:19:08.225>each <00:19:08.425>other.

440
00:19:08.985 --> 00:19:10.445
<00:19:08.985>And <00:19:09.313>interview <00:19:09.641>stages <00:19:09.970>was <00:19:10.299>something

441
00:19:10.445 --> 00:19:13.845
<00:19:10.445>that <00:19:10.600>was <00:19:10.756>coming <00:19:10.911>up <00:19:11.067>in <00:19:11.222>every <00:19:11.378>single <00:19:11.533>conversation, <00:19:11.689>no <00:19:11.845>matter

442
00:19:13.875 --> 00:19:16.725
<00:19:13.875>what, <00:19:14.050>uh, <00:19:14.225>tech <00:19:14.400>skill <00:19:14.575>the <00:19:14.750>developer <00:19:14.925>was <00:19:15.100>focusing <00:19:15.275>on,

443
00:19:16.745 --> 00:19:19.685
<00:19:16.745>on <00:19:16.919>which <00:19:17.094>tech <00:19:17.270>skill <00:19:17.445>the <00:19:17.620>recruiter <00:19:17.794>was <00:19:17.969>specialized <00:19:18.145>in.

444
00:19:20.025 --> 00:19:21.805
<00:19:20.025>And <00:19:20.305>that's <00:19:20.585>something <00:19:20.865>that, <00:19:21.145>for <00:19:21.425>me,

445
00:19:21.905 --> 00:19:23.485
<00:19:21.905>was <00:19:22.254>the <00:19:22.605>most <00:19:22.955>important <00:19:23.305>trend.

446
00:19:23.585 --> 00:19:26.925
<00:19:23.585>And <00:19:23.740>it <00:19:23.896>was <00:19:24.051>actually <00:19:24.207>very <00:19:24.362>refreshing <00:19:24.518>to <00:19:24.673>see <00:19:24.829>those <00:19:24.985>gaps

447
00:19:26.925 --> 00:19:29.285
<00:19:26.925>between <00:19:27.125>the <00:19:27.325>HR <00:19:27.524>side <00:19:27.725>and <00:19:27.925>the <00:19:28.125>developer <00:19:28.325>side,

448
00:19:29.285 --> 00:19:31.765
<00:19:29.285>because <00:19:29.460>that <00:19:29.635>was <00:19:29.810>actually <00:19:29.985>the, <00:19:30.160>the <00:19:30.335>main <00:19:30.510>intent <00:19:30.685>also

449
00:19:31.765 --> 00:19:35.005
<00:19:31.765>of <00:19:31.965>the <00:19:32.165>survey <00:19:32.365>of <00:19:32.565>actually <00:19:32.765>highlighting <00:19:32.965>this <00:19:33.165>gap,

450
00:19:35.005 --> 00:19:37.285
<00:19:35.005>because <00:19:35.160>we <00:19:35.316>knew <00:19:35.471>there <00:19:35.627>was <00:19:35.782>a <00:19:35.938>gap <00:19:36.093>between <00:19:36.249>both <00:19:36.405>sides.

451
00:19:37.705 --> 00:19:41.725
<00:19:37.705>But <00:19:37.938>the <00:19:38.171>questions <00:19:38.405>actually <00:19:38.638>highlighted <00:19:38.871>finally <00:19:39.105>point

452
00:19:41.735 --> 00:19:42.925
<00:19:41.735>blank, <00:19:42.002>here <00:19:42.270>are <00:19:42.538>the <00:19:42.806>facts.

453
00:19:43.275 --> 00:19:44.645
<00:19:43.275>This <00:19:43.583>is <00:19:43.891>what <00:19:44.199>developers <00:19:44.508>think.

454
00:19:44.655 --> 00:19:47.085
<00:19:44.655>These <00:19:44.888>are <00:19:45.121>what <00:19:45.355>professional <00:19:45.588>HR <00:19:45.821>professionals <00:19:46.055>think.

455
00:19:47.465 --> 00:19:52.245
<00:19:47.465>And <00:19:47.592>one, <00:19:47.719>um, <00:19:47.846>one, <00:19:47.974>uh, <00:19:48.101>finding <00:19:48.228>that <00:19:48.355>actually <00:19:48.483>stood <00:19:48.610>out <00:19:48.737>to <00:19:48.865>me,

456
00:19:52.425 --> 00:19:54.165
<00:19:52.425>not <00:19:52.625>because <00:19:52.825>the <00:19:53.024>data <00:19:53.225>was <00:19:53.425>different, <00:19:53.625>but <00:19:53.825>rather

457
00:19:54.165 --> 00:19:56.725
<00:19:54.165>because <00:19:54.340>the <00:19:54.514>data <00:19:54.690>was <00:19:54.865>repeating <00:19:55.040>itself, <00:19:55.215>was <00:19:55.389>the <00:19:55.565>notion

458
00:19:56.725 --> 00:19:58.045
<00:19:56.725>of <00:19:57.319>salary <00:19:57.913>transparency.

459
00:19:58.725 --> 00:20:01.205
<00:19:58.725>I <00:19:59.004>mean, <00:19:59.284>there's <00:19:59.564>something <00:19:59.844>very <00:20:00.125>straightforward.

460
00:20:01.685 --> 00:20:05.205
<00:20:01.685>Everyone <00:20:01.825>talks <00:20:01.965>about <00:20:02.105>the <00:20:02.245>fact <00:20:02.385>that <00:20:02.524>job <00:20:02.665>ads <00:20:02.804>should <00:20:02.945>have <00:20:03.085>an,

461
00:20:05.365 --> 00:20:09.085
<00:20:05.365>a <00:20:05.520>transparent <00:20:05.676>salary, <00:20:05.831>um, <00:20:05.987>so <00:20:06.142>that, <00:20:06.298>you <00:20:06.453>know, <00:20:06.609>candidates <00:20:06.765>know

462
00:20:09.085 --> 00:20:12.005
<00:20:09.085>what <00:20:09.240>to <00:20:09.396>expect <00:20:09.551>when <00:20:09.707>they <00:20:09.862>take <00:20:10.018>on <00:20:10.173>the <00:20:10.329>interview <00:20:10.485>stages

463
00:20:12.005 --> 00:20:15.285
<00:20:12.005>because <00:20:12.180>like <00:20:12.355>we <00:20:12.530>discussed, <00:20:12.705>um, <00:20:12.880>the <00:20:13.055>tech <00:20:13.230>industry <00:20:13.405>actually

464
00:20:15.845 --> 00:20:17.845
<00:20:15.845>requires <00:20:16.311>multiple <00:20:16.778>interview <00:20:17.245>stages

465
00:20:17.845 --> 00:20:20.605
<00:20:17.845>because <00:20:18.045>you <00:20:18.245>have <00:20:18.445>that <00:20:18.645>one-on-one <00:20:18.845>conversation, <00:20:19.045>you <00:20:19.245>get

466
00:20:20.605 --> 00:20:22.485
<00:20:20.605>to <00:20:20.760>know <00:20:20.916>each <00:20:21.071>other, <00:20:21.227>then <00:20:21.382>you <00:20:21.538>have <00:20:21.693>the <00:20:21.849>soft <00:20:22.005>skills,

467
00:20:22.825 --> 00:20:24.325
<00:20:22.825>you <00:20:23.162>have <00:20:23.500>the <00:20:23.837>technical <00:20:24.175>assessments.

468
00:20:24.865 --> 00:20:29.245
<00:20:24.865>So, <00:20:25.005>um, <00:20:25.145>the <00:20:25.285>fact <00:20:25.425>that <00:20:25.565>60% <00:20:25.705>of <00:20:25.845>developers <00:20:25.985>even <00:20:26.125>two <00:20:26.265>years

469
00:20:29.295 --> 00:20:33.365
<00:20:29.295>after, <00:20:29.450>so <00:20:29.606>we <00:20:29.761>asked <00:20:29.917>those <00:20:30.072>questions <00:20:30.228>previously <00:20:30.383>in <00:20:30.539>the <00:20:30.695>2023

470
00:20:33.365 --> 00:20:37.045
<00:20:33.365>survey, <00:20:33.645>2022 <00:20:33.925>survey, <00:20:34.205>60% <00:20:34.485>still <00:20:34.765>say

471
00:20:37.045 --> 00:20:39.245
<00:20:37.045>that <00:20:37.220>this <00:20:37.395>is <00:20:37.570>the <00:20:37.745>number <00:20:37.920>one <00:20:38.095>priority <00:20:38.270>when <00:20:38.445>they're

472
00:20:39.445 --> 00:20:42.005
<00:20:39.445>considering <00:20:39.678>a <00:20:39.911>position, <00:20:40.145>whether <00:20:40.378>they're <00:20:40.611>actively <00:20:40.845>looking

473
00:20:42.065 --> 00:20:43.205
<00:20:42.065>for <00:20:42.321>a <00:20:42.578>job <00:20:42.834>or <00:20:43.091>not.

474
00:20:43.945 --> 00:20:47.605
<00:20:43.945>Um, <00:20:44.072>and <00:20:44.199>then <00:20:44.326>on <00:20:44.454>the <00:20:44.581>other <00:20:44.708>hand, <00:20:44.835>we <00:20:44.963>have <00:20:45.090>40, <00:20:45.217>only <00:20:45.345>40%

475
00:20:47.625 --> 00:20:48.885
<00:20:47.625>of <00:20:48.192>c-level <00:20:48.759>managers

476
00:20:48.905 --> 00:20:50.525
<00:20:48.905>and <00:20:49.371>recruiters <00:20:49.838>that <00:20:50.305>say

477
00:20:50.525 --> 00:20:52.205
<00:20:50.525>that <00:20:50.875>they're <00:20:51.225>indicating <00:20:51.575>their <00:20:51.925>salaries

478
00:20:52.225 --> 00:20:54.845
<00:20:52.225>for <00:20:52.399>their <00:20:52.574>open <00:20:52.750>position <00:20:52.925>to <00:20:53.100>appeal <00:20:53.274>to <00:20:53.449>the <00:20:53.625>developers.

479
00:20:55.105 --> 00:20:57.605
<00:20:55.105>Mm-Hmm. <00:20:55.305>So <00:20:55.505>there <00:20:55.705>we <00:20:55.905>can <00:20:56.105>see <00:20:56.305>that <00:20:56.505>there's

480
00:20:57.605 --> 00:21:00.365
<00:20:57.605>so <00:20:57.760>many <00:20:57.916>lost <00:20:58.071>opportunities <00:20:58.227>that <00:20:58.382>really <00:20:58.538>need <00:20:58.693>to <00:20:58.849>be <00:20:59.005>addressed.

481
00:21:00.425 --> 00:21:03.725
<00:21:00.425>And <00:21:00.580>I <00:21:00.736>think <00:21:00.891>that <00:21:01.047>one <00:21:01.202>crucial <00:21:01.358>trend <00:21:01.513>that <00:21:01.669>really <00:21:01.825>needs

482
00:21:03.725 --> 00:21:06.925
<00:21:03.725>to <00:21:03.925>happen <00:21:04.125>is <00:21:04.324>that <00:21:04.524>companies <00:21:04.725>not <00:21:04.925>only <00:21:05.125>know

483
00:21:06.925 --> 00:21:09.605
<00:21:06.925>what <00:21:07.125>developers <00:21:07.325>want, <00:21:07.524>but <00:21:07.725>actually <00:21:07.925>address <00:21:08.125>those <00:21:08.325>issues.

484
00:21:10.145 --> 00:21:12.725
<00:21:10.145>Mm-Hmm. <00:21:10.300>Uh, <00:21:10.456>yeah, <00:21:10.611>that's, <00:21:10.767>I <00:21:10.922>mean, <00:21:11.078>it <00:21:11.233>was <00:21:11.389>really, <00:21:11.545>really,

485
00:21:12.725 --> 00:21:14.325
<00:21:12.725>really <00:21:12.899>strong <00:21:13.074>for <00:21:13.250>me <00:21:13.425>at <00:21:13.600>that <00:21:13.774>point <00:21:13.949>as <00:21:14.125>well,

486
00:21:14.325 --> 00:21:16.685
<00:21:14.325>because <00:21:14.558>I <00:21:14.791>think <00:21:15.025>if <00:21:15.258>you've <00:21:15.491>got <00:21:15.725>60%

487
00:21:16.705 --> 00:21:20.565
<00:21:16.705>of <00:21:16.905>recruiters <00:21:17.105>not <00:21:17.304>being <00:21:17.504>transparent <00:21:17.705>about <00:21:17.905>salary, <00:21:18.105>uh,

488
00:21:20.585 --> 00:21:22.285
<00:21:20.585>to <00:21:20.818>the <00:21:21.051>people <00:21:21.285>that <00:21:21.518>trying <00:21:21.751>to <00:21:21.985>track,

489
00:21:22.705 --> 00:21:24.685
<00:21:22.705>you're <00:21:22.905>really <00:21:23.105>playing <00:21:23.304>hide <00:21:23.504>and <00:21:23.705>seek, <00:21:23.905>aren't <00:21:24.105>you?

490
00:21:24.705 --> 00:21:26.805
<00:21:24.705>You <00:21:24.860>know? <00:21:25.016>Yeah. <00:21:25.171>Which <00:21:25.327>is, <00:21:25.482>you <00:21:25.638>know, <00:21:25.793>in <00:21:25.949>a <00:21:26.105>market

491
00:21:26.805 --> 00:21:28.125
<00:21:26.805>that's <00:21:27.042>really <00:21:27.280>tough <00:21:27.517>to <00:21:27.755>recruit <00:21:27.993>in,

492
00:21:28.385 --> 00:21:30.365
<00:21:28.385>why <00:21:28.525>would <00:21:28.665>you <00:21:28.805>wanna <00:21:28.945>play <00:21:29.085>hide <00:21:29.225>and <00:21:29.365>seek <00:21:29.504>with <00:21:29.645>the <00:21:29.785>candidate?

493
00:21:30.555 --> 00:21:31.605
<00:21:30.555>It's, <00:21:31.027>it's <00:21:31.500>crazy.

494
00:21:31.945 --> 00:21:34.125
<00:21:31.945>So <00:21:32.085>I <00:21:32.225>think <00:21:32.365>that's <00:21:32.504>a <00:21:32.645>big <00:21:32.784>gap <00:21:32.925>that <00:21:33.064>should <00:21:33.205>be <00:21:33.345>addressed.

495
00:21:34.505 --> 00:21:36.525
<00:21:34.505>Um, <00:21:34.738>mm-Hmm. <00:21:34.971>By <00:21:35.205>the, <00:21:35.438>by <00:21:35.671>the <00:21:35.905>recruit.

496
00:21:36.965 --> 00:21:39.845
<00:21:36.965>I <00:21:37.092>mean, <00:21:37.219>if, <00:21:37.346>if, <00:21:37.474>if <00:21:37.601>I <00:21:37.728>talk <00:21:37.855>at <00:21:37.983>conferences <00:21:38.110>to <00:21:38.237>HR <00:21:38.365>people

497
00:21:40.065 --> 00:21:43.485
<00:21:40.065>and <00:21:40.220>companies, <00:21:40.376>um, <00:21:40.531>always <00:21:40.687>have <00:21:40.842>the <00:21:40.998>discussion, <00:21:41.153>if <00:21:41.309>it <00:21:41.465>comes

498
00:21:43.485 --> 00:21:47.565
<00:21:43.485>to <00:21:43.640>developers <00:21:43.796>that <00:21:43.951>full <00:21:44.107>remote <00:21:44.262>is <00:21:44.418>the, <00:21:44.573>the <00:21:44.729>only <00:21:44.885>topic,

499
00:21:47.565 --> 00:21:48.765
<00:21:47.565>which <00:21:47.925>is <00:21:48.285>really <00:21:48.645>interesting.

500
00:21:48.825 --> 00:21:52.285
<00:21:48.825>Is <00:21:48.965>there <00:21:49.105>any <00:21:49.245>findings <00:21:49.385>on, <00:21:49.525>on <00:21:49.665>this <00:21:49.805>kind <00:21:49.945>of <00:21:50.085>full <00:21:50.225>remote,

501
00:21:52.425 --> 00:21:55.365
<00:21:52.425>remote <00:21:52.625>hybrid, <00:21:52.825>uh, <00:21:53.024>coming <00:21:53.225>out <00:21:53.425>of <00:21:53.625>the <00:21:53.825>survey

502
00:21:55.465 --> 00:21:58.205
<00:21:55.465>and <00:21:55.620>the <00:21:55.776>trend, <00:21:55.931>if <00:21:56.087>you <00:21:56.242>compare, <00:21:56.398>probably <00:21:56.553>Atna <00:21:56.709>can <00:21:56.865>answer

503
00:21:58.205 --> 00:22:02.325
<00:21:58.205>that <00:21:58.379>if <00:21:58.554>you <00:21:58.730>compare <00:21:58.905>2090, <00:21:59.080>20, <00:21:59.254>21, <00:21:59.429>22, <00:21:59.605>uh,

504
00:22:02.585 --> 00:22:04.085
<00:22:02.585>is <00:22:02.810>there <00:22:03.035>kind <00:22:03.260>of <00:22:03.485>a <00:22:03.710>change <00:22:03.935>there?

505
00:22:04.105 --> 00:22:07.925
<00:22:04.105>Or <00:22:04.245>how <00:22:04.385>important <00:22:04.525>is <00:22:04.665>this <00:22:04.805>kind <00:22:04.945>of <00:22:05.085>full <00:22:05.225>remote <00:22:05.365>topic <00:22:05.505>for,

506
00:22:08.105 --> 00:22:10.405
<00:22:08.105>for <00:22:08.455>developers <00:22:08.805>and <00:22:09.155>or <00:22:09.505>companies?

507
00:22:11.555 --> 00:22:15.165
<00:22:11.555>Yeah, <00:22:11.710>I <00:22:11.866>think <00:22:12.021>the, <00:22:12.177>the <00:22:12.332>developers <00:22:12.488>are <00:22:12.643>getting <00:22:12.799>more, <00:22:12.955>uh,

508
00:22:15.375 --> 00:22:18.645
<00:22:15.375>aware <00:22:15.608>of <00:22:15.841>the <00:22:16.075>situation <00:22:16.308>where, <00:22:16.541>um, <00:22:16.775>now

509
00:22:18.645 --> 00:22:21.285
<00:22:18.645>that <00:22:18.845>their <00:22:19.045>statement <00:22:19.245>is, <00:22:19.445>okay, <00:22:19.645>we <00:22:19.845>are <00:22:20.045>aiming

510
00:22:21.285 --> 00:22:24.165
<00:22:21.285>for <00:22:21.565>flexibility <00:22:21.845>like <00:22:22.125>full <00:22:22.405>remote, <00:22:22.685>understood.

511
00:22:24.405 --> 00:22:27.125
<00:22:24.405>I <00:22:24.532>cannot <00:22:24.659>do <00:22:24.786>that <00:22:24.914>because <00:22:25.041>I <00:22:25.168>really <00:22:25.295>need <00:22:25.423>to <00:22:25.550>see <00:22:25.677>my <00:22:25.805>colleague,

512
00:22:27.125 --> 00:22:29.605
<00:22:27.125>colleagues, <00:22:27.325>the, <00:22:27.525>the <00:22:27.725>social <00:22:27.925>dimension <00:22:28.125>is <00:22:28.325>very <00:22:28.525>important

513
00:22:29.625 --> 00:22:32.525
<00:22:29.625>and <00:22:29.800>that <00:22:29.975>some <00:22:30.150>meetings <00:22:30.325>need <00:22:30.500>to <00:22:30.675>happen, <00:22:30.850>uh, <00:22:31.025>in,

514
00:22:32.625 --> 00:22:33.725
<00:22:32.625>in, <00:22:32.872>in, <00:22:33.120>in, <00:22:33.367>in <00:22:33.615>person.

515
00:22:34.385 --> 00:22:36.365
<00:22:34.385>And, <00:22:34.665>um, <00:22:34.945>I <00:22:35.225>think <00:22:35.504>what <00:22:35.785>was

516
00:22:36.545 --> 00:22:39.605
<00:22:36.545>before <00:22:36.745>in <00:22:36.945>a <00:22:37.145>two <00:22:37.345>years, <00:22:37.545>three <00:22:37.745>years <00:22:37.945>ago,

517
00:22:39.605 --> 00:22:42.125
<00:22:39.605>while <00:22:39.745>we <00:22:39.885>were <00:22:40.025>in <00:22:40.165>the, <00:22:40.305>in <00:22:40.445>the <00:22:40.585>middle <00:22:40.725>of, <00:22:40.865>uh, <00:22:41.005>pandemics,

518
00:22:42.145 --> 00:22:46.085
<00:22:42.145>of <00:22:42.300>course, <00:22:42.456>remote <00:22:42.611>work <00:22:42.767>was <00:22:42.922>the, <00:22:43.078>uh, <00:22:43.233>the <00:22:43.389>only <00:22:43.545>way

519
00:22:46.145 --> 00:22:49.125
<00:22:46.145>how <00:22:46.300>you <00:22:46.456>could, <00:22:46.611>uh, <00:22:46.767>uh, <00:22:46.922>uh, <00:22:47.078>attract <00:22:47.233>developers <00:22:47.389>of <00:22:47.545>course.

520
00:22:49.625 --> 00:22:52.365
<00:22:49.625>But <00:22:49.800>now <00:22:49.975>as <00:22:50.150>the <00:22:50.325>situation <00:22:50.500>changes, <00:22:50.675>uh, <00:22:50.850>I <00:22:51.025>think

521
00:22:52.365 --> 00:22:56.125
<00:22:52.365>that <00:22:52.520>the <00:22:52.676>emphasis <00:22:52.831>is <00:22:52.987>on <00:22:53.142>a <00:22:53.298>flexibility, <00:22:53.453>which <00:22:53.609>means <00:22:53.765>not

522
00:22:56.125 --> 00:22:57.525
<00:22:56.125>to <00:22:56.545>provide <00:22:56.965>flexible <00:22:57.385>work,

523
00:22:57.665 --> 00:23:01.165
<00:22:57.665>but <00:22:57.805>to <00:22:57.945>give <00:22:58.085>the <00:22:58.225>options <00:22:58.365>for <00:22:58.504>developers <00:22:58.645>to <00:22:58.784>choose <00:22:58.925>in <00:22:59.065>between,

524
00:23:01.545 --> 00:23:03.325
<00:23:01.545>is <00:23:01.745>it <00:23:01.945>a <00:23:02.145>four <00:23:02.345>day <00:23:02.545>work <00:23:02.745>week <00:23:02.945>model?

525
00:23:03.425 --> 00:23:05.365
<00:23:03.425>Is <00:23:03.580>it <00:23:03.736>three <00:23:03.891>days <00:23:04.047>at <00:23:04.202>home, <00:23:04.358>two <00:23:04.513>at <00:23:04.669>the <00:23:04.825>office?

526
00:23:05.865 --> 00:23:09.685
<00:23:05.865>Is <00:23:06.005>it <00:23:06.145>to, <00:23:06.285>uh, <00:23:06.425>design <00:23:06.565>something <00:23:06.705>new, <00:23:06.845>some <00:23:06.985>new <00:23:07.125>hybrid <00:23:07.265>model?

527
00:23:10.385 --> 00:23:11.525
<00:23:10.385>And, <00:23:10.898>um, <00:23:11.411>that's

528
00:23:11.525 --> 00:23:14.645
<00:23:11.525>where <00:23:11.725>I <00:23:11.925>think <00:23:12.125>companies <00:23:12.325>are <00:23:12.525>failing <00:23:12.725>right <00:23:12.925>now.

529
00:23:14.905 --> 00:23:18.285
<00:23:14.905>We <00:23:15.060>have <00:23:15.216>seen <00:23:15.371>a <00:23:15.527>lot <00:23:15.682>of <00:23:15.838>negative <00:23:15.993>news <00:23:16.149>during, <00:23:16.305>especially

530
00:23:18.285 --> 00:23:20.925
<00:23:18.285>during <00:23:18.518>summer <00:23:18.751>from <00:23:18.985>the <00:23:19.218>big <00:23:19.451>tech <00:23:19.685>companies

531
00:23:20.925 --> 00:23:22.845
<00:23:20.925>where <00:23:21.274>they <00:23:21.625>were <00:23:21.975>resolute, <00:23:22.325>uh,

532
00:23:23.095 --> 00:23:24.965
<00:23:23.095>thank <00:23:23.328>God <00:23:23.561>they <00:23:23.795>gave <00:23:24.028>at <00:23:24.261>least <00:23:24.495>the

533
00:23:25.125 --> 00:23:26.165
<00:23:25.125>deadline <00:23:25.359>where <00:23:25.593>that <00:23:25.827>can <00:23:26.061>happen.

534
00:23:26.255 --> 00:23:29.245
<00:23:26.255>Where <00:23:26.430>that <00:23:26.605>will <00:23:26.780>happen <00:23:26.955>sta <00:23:27.130>starting <00:23:27.305>from <00:23:27.480>first <00:23:27.655>January

535
00:23:29.305 --> 00:23:31.925
<00:23:29.305>and <00:23:29.480>onwards, <00:23:29.655>so <00:23:29.830>you <00:23:30.005>can <00:23:30.180>at <00:23:30.355>least <00:23:30.530>prepare <00:23:30.705>yourself

536
00:23:32.065 --> 00:23:34.725
<00:23:32.065>and, <00:23:32.205>uh, <00:23:32.345>figure <00:23:32.485>out <00:23:32.625>how <00:23:32.765>to <00:23:32.905>take <00:23:33.045>care <00:23:33.185>of <00:23:33.325>your <00:23:33.465>kids

537
00:23:34.785 --> 00:23:36.045
<00:23:34.785>and <00:23:35.068>to <00:23:35.352>reshape <00:23:35.635>your <00:23:35.919>life

538
00:23:36.225 --> 00:23:41.205
<00:23:36.225>and <00:23:36.341>do, <00:23:36.458>uh, <00:23:36.574>the, <00:23:36.691>the <00:23:36.808>new <00:23:36.925>set <00:23:37.041>of, <00:23:37.158>of, <00:23:37.274>of <00:23:37.391>rules <00:23:37.508>for <00:23:37.625>yourself.

539
00:23:41.985 --> 00:23:44.245
<00:23:41.985>Um, <00:23:42.159>I <00:23:42.334>think <00:23:42.510>that's <00:23:42.685>a, <00:23:42.860>that's <00:23:43.034>a <00:23:43.209>good <00:23:43.385>point.

540
00:23:44.385 --> 00:23:46.885
<00:23:44.385>But <00:23:44.540>the <00:23:44.696>bad <00:23:44.851>point <00:23:45.007>is <00:23:45.162>that <00:23:45.318>they <00:23:45.473>do <00:23:45.629>not <00:23:45.785>want

541
00:23:46.885 --> 00:23:48.605
<00:23:46.885>to <00:23:47.351>communicate <00:23:47.818>the <00:23:48.285>flexibility,

542
00:23:48.675 --> 00:23:50.485
<00:23:48.675>even <00:23:48.955>though <00:23:49.235>all <00:23:49.514>the <00:23:49.794>data <00:23:50.075>shows

543
00:23:50.485 --> 00:23:53.245
<00:23:50.485>that <00:23:50.718>the <00:23:50.951>productivity <00:23:51.185>levels <00:23:51.418>are <00:23:51.651>even <00:23:51.885>raising

544
00:23:53.385 --> 00:23:55.885
<00:23:53.385>or <00:23:53.525>staying <00:23:53.665>the <00:23:53.805>same <00:23:53.945>in <00:23:54.085>comparison <00:23:54.225>when <00:23:54.365>you <00:23:54.504>go <00:23:54.645>to <00:23:54.785>office.

545
00:23:56.345 --> 00:23:57.805
<00:23:56.345>Mm-Hmm. <00:23:56.783>So <00:23:57.221>why <00:23:57.659>now?

546
00:23:58.385 --> 00:24:01.405
<00:23:58.385>Why <00:23:58.540>is <00:23:58.696>this <00:23:58.851>the, <00:23:59.007>uh, <00:23:59.162>the <00:23:59.318>question <00:23:59.473>that <00:23:59.629>we <00:23:59.785>have

547
00:24:01.405 --> 00:24:04.525
<00:24:01.405>to <00:24:01.638>discuss <00:24:01.871>when <00:24:02.105>the <00:24:02.338>data <00:24:02.571>shows <00:24:02.805>anonymously?

548
00:24:04.915 --> 00:24:07.485
<00:24:04.915>That <00:24:05.148>the <00:24:05.381>remote <00:24:05.615>work <00:24:05.848>or <00:24:06.081>flexible <00:24:06.315>work

549
00:24:07.585 --> 00:24:11.685
<00:24:07.585>or <00:24:07.725>any <00:24:07.865>type <00:24:08.005>of <00:24:08.145>new <00:24:08.285>work <00:24:08.425>works <00:24:08.565>for, <00:24:08.705>for <00:24:08.845>employees, <00:24:08.985>especially

550
00:24:11.705 --> 00:24:14.125
<00:24:11.705>for, <00:24:11.905>for <00:24:12.105>tech, <00:24:12.304>where <00:24:12.504>the <00:24:12.705>results <00:24:12.905>are <00:24:13.105>driven

551
00:24:14.225 --> 00:24:16.045
<00:24:14.225>by <00:24:14.504>the <00:24:14.784>deadlines, <00:24:15.064>by <00:24:15.344>the <00:24:15.625>deliveries,

552
00:24:16.585 --> 00:24:18.925
<00:24:16.585>and <00:24:16.725>not <00:24:16.865>about <00:24:17.005>the <00:24:17.145>actual <00:24:17.285>productivity <00:24:17.425>when <00:24:17.565>you <00:24:17.705>have <00:24:17.845>to <00:24:17.985>go

553
00:24:18.925 --> 00:24:22.485
<00:24:18.925>to <00:24:19.052>the <00:24:19.179>fabric <00:24:19.306>and, <00:24:19.434>you <00:24:19.561>know, <00:24:19.688>come <00:24:19.815>up <00:24:19.943>with <00:24:20.070>something <00:24:20.197>that <00:24:20.325>has

554
00:24:22.485 --> 00:24:24.165
<00:24:22.485>to <00:24:22.834>be <00:24:23.185>done <00:24:23.534>on <00:24:23.885>site.

555
00:24:24.385 --> 00:24:26.245
<00:24:24.385>Mm-Hmm. <00:24:24.665>So <00:24:24.945>that's <00:24:25.225>kind <00:24:25.504>of <00:24:25.785>sad.

556
00:24:26.545 --> 00:24:31.405
<00:24:26.545>Uh, <00:24:26.661>but <00:24:26.778>I, <00:24:26.895>I <00:24:27.011>dunno <00:24:27.128>how <00:24:27.245>we, <00:24:27.361>how, <00:24:27.478>how <00:24:27.595>we <00:24:27.711>can <00:24:27.828>tackle <00:24:27.945>that

557
00:24:31.425 --> 00:24:32.885
<00:24:31.425>and <00:24:31.644>how <00:24:31.863>we <00:24:32.081>can <00:24:32.301>turn <00:24:32.520>the <00:24:32.739>tides.

558
00:24:32.885 --> 00:24:36.005
<00:24:32.885>Yeah. <00:24:33.025>I <00:24:33.165>think <00:24:33.305>it's, <00:24:33.445>it's <00:24:33.585>on <00:24:33.725>VR <00:24:33.865>are <00:24:34.004>developers <00:24:34.145>to, <00:24:34.285>uh,

559
00:24:36.015 --> 00:24:38.365
<00:24:36.015>raise <00:24:36.248>attention <00:24:36.481>and <00:24:36.715>to <00:24:36.948>raise <00:24:37.181>those <00:24:37.415>voices

560
00:24:38.505 --> 00:24:41.405
<00:24:38.505>and <00:24:38.705>be <00:24:38.905>continuous, <00:24:39.105>nonstop <00:24:39.305>bombard <00:24:39.505>with <00:24:39.705>the <00:24:39.905>data

561
00:24:41.465 --> 00:24:44.245
<00:24:41.465>and, <00:24:41.698>uh, <00:24:41.931>with <00:24:42.165>incentives <00:24:42.398>to <00:24:42.631>make <00:24:42.865>the,

562
00:24:44.585 --> 00:24:45.605
<00:24:44.585>to <00:24:44.814>make <00:24:45.044>the <00:24:45.273>thing <00:24:45.503>stay.

563
00:24:46.915 --> 00:24:48.485
<00:24:46.915>Yeah. <00:24:47.195>I, <00:24:47.475>I <00:24:47.754>think <00:24:48.034>this <00:24:48.315>is,

564
00:24:48.555 --> 00:24:51.325
<00:24:48.555>this <00:24:48.710>is <00:24:48.866>probably <00:24:49.021>worth <00:24:49.177>a <00:24:49.332>whole <00:24:49.488>survey <00:24:49.643>in <00:24:49.799>itself, <00:24:49.955>right?

565
00:24:51.465 --> 00:24:53.565
<00:24:51.465>So <00:24:52.165>Exactly. <00:24:52.865>Because,

566
00:24:53.865 --> 00:24:56.125
<00:24:53.865>and <00:24:54.005>the <00:24:54.145>reason <00:24:54.285>being <00:24:54.425>is <00:24:54.565>it, <00:24:54.705>it's <00:24:54.845>a <00:24:54.985>really <00:24:55.125>important <00:24:55.265>topic

567
00:24:56.225 --> 00:24:58.845
<00:24:56.225>for <00:24:56.425>both <00:24:56.625>sides <00:24:56.824>of, <00:24:57.024>of <00:24:57.225>the <00:24:57.425>equation, <00:24:57.625>right?

568
00:24:58.845 --> 00:25:00.405
<00:24:58.845>And <00:24:59.020>this <00:24:59.195>is <00:24:59.370>what <00:24:59.545>mm-Hmm. <00:24:59.720>This <00:24:59.895>is <00:25:00.070>what <00:25:00.245>we,

569
00:25:00.405 --> 00:25:02.085
<00:25:00.405>our <00:25:00.580>developers <00:25:00.754>are <00:25:00.930>trying <00:25:01.105>to <00:25:01.280>do <00:25:01.455>is, <00:25:01.629>you <00:25:01.805>know,

570
00:25:02.085 --> 00:25:03.165
<00:25:02.085>bridge <00:25:02.409>these <00:25:02.733>gaps, <00:25:03.057>right?

571
00:25:03.665 --> 00:25:05.045
<00:25:03.665>So <00:25:03.820>I <00:25:03.975>think <00:25:04.130>there <00:25:04.286>could <00:25:04.441>be <00:25:04.596>a <00:25:04.751>whole, <00:25:04.907>but,

572
00:25:05.045 --> 00:25:06.925
<00:25:05.045>but <00:25:05.185>if <00:25:05.325>you <00:25:05.465>look <00:25:05.605>at <00:25:05.745>what's <00:25:05.885>come <00:25:06.025>out <00:25:06.165>of <00:25:06.305>this <00:25:06.445>survey

573
00:25:06.945 --> 00:25:08.965
<00:25:06.945>and <00:25:07.072>you <00:25:07.199>look <00:25:07.326>at <00:25:07.454>what's <00:25:07.581>kind <00:25:07.708>of <00:25:07.835>come <00:25:07.963>out <00:25:08.090>in <00:25:08.217>the <00:25:08.345>news

574
00:25:09.145 --> 00:25:11.325
<00:25:09.145>or <00:25:09.425>news <00:25:09.705>recently <00:25:09.985>that, <00:25:10.264>you <00:25:10.545>know,

575
00:25:11.425 --> 00:25:12.765
<00:25:11.425>one <00:25:11.626>in <00:25:11.827>four <00:25:12.028>a <00:25:12.229>developers <00:25:12.430>say, <00:25:12.631>look,

576
00:25:12.765 --> 00:25:15.205
<00:25:12.765>I <00:25:12.965>don't <00:25:13.165>see <00:25:13.365>any <00:25:13.565>reason <00:25:13.765>at <00:25:13.965>all <00:25:14.165>to,

577
00:25:15.545 --> 00:25:16.925
<00:25:15.545>to <00:25:15.793>go <00:25:16.041>into <00:25:16.290>the <00:25:16.538>office, <00:25:16.787>right?

578
00:25:16.925 --> 00:25:18.365
<00:25:16.925>There's <00:25:17.184>no, <00:25:17.443>you <00:25:17.702>know, <00:25:17.961>there's <00:25:18.221>nothing

579
00:25:18.395 --> 00:25:20.605
<00:25:18.395>that <00:25:18.628>I <00:25:18.861>need <00:25:19.095>from <00:25:19.328>an <00:25:19.561>office <00:25:19.795>space

580
00:25:20.945 --> 00:25:22.725
<00:25:20.945>to <00:25:21.178>help <00:25:21.411>me <00:25:21.645>do <00:25:21.878>my <00:25:22.111>job <00:25:22.345>perfectly.

581
00:25:23.025 --> 00:25:27.085
<00:25:23.025>And <00:25:23.180>that <00:25:23.336>was <00:25:23.491>certainly <00:25:23.647>a, <00:25:23.802>um, <00:25:23.958>echoed <00:25:24.113>conversations <00:25:24.269>I <00:25:24.425>had,

582
00:25:27.425 --> 00:25:29.085
<00:25:27.425>uh, <00:25:27.705>you <00:25:27.985>know, <00:25:28.264>at <00:25:28.544>the <00:25:28.825>conference

583
00:25:29.085 --> 00:25:30.485
<00:25:29.085>with <00:25:29.295>developers <00:25:29.505>when <00:25:29.715>I <00:25:29.925>asked <00:25:30.135>about <00:25:30.344>that,

584
00:25:30.485 --> 00:25:31.565
<00:25:30.485>because <00:25:30.809>it's <00:25:31.133>very <00:25:31.457>topical.

585
00:25:31.905 --> 00:25:34.205
<00:25:31.905>So <00:25:32.032>when <00:25:32.159>you <00:25:32.286>look <00:25:32.414>at <00:25:32.541>that <00:25:32.668>and <00:25:32.795>say, <00:25:32.923>you <00:25:33.050>know, <00:25:33.177>25% <00:25:33.305>no.

586
00:25:34.205 --> 00:25:36.605
<00:25:34.205>So <00:25:34.438>that, <00:25:34.671>but <00:25:34.905>they <00:25:35.138>also <00:25:35.371>leave <00:25:35.605>75%

587
00:25:36.605 --> 00:25:38.245
<00:25:36.605>that <00:25:36.838>say <00:25:37.071>there <00:25:37.305>might <00:25:37.538>be <00:25:37.771>some <00:25:38.005>value.

588
00:25:38.665 --> 00:25:41.765
<00:25:38.665>So <00:25:38.898>it's <00:25:39.131>probably <00:25:39.365>around <00:25:39.598>clear <00:25:39.831>signposting <00:25:40.065>of

589
00:25:41.765 --> 00:25:44.645
<00:25:41.765>what <00:25:41.905>is <00:25:42.045>available <00:25:42.185>to <00:25:42.325>people <00:25:42.465>in <00:25:42.605>terms <00:25:42.745>of <00:25:42.885>flexibility <00:25:43.025>of <00:25:43.165>work,

590
00:25:45.345 --> 00:25:49.445
<00:25:45.345>and <00:25:45.520>also <00:25:45.695>clear <00:25:45.870>signposting <00:25:46.045>of <00:25:46.220>what's <00:25:46.395>expected <00:25:46.570>in <00:25:46.745>terms

591
00:25:49.445 --> 00:25:52.045
<00:25:49.445>of <00:25:49.678>productivity <00:25:49.911>and <00:25:50.145>project <00:25:50.378>work <00:25:50.611>from <00:25:50.845>that.

592
00:25:52.145 --> 00:25:53.805
<00:25:52.145>And, <00:25:52.495>you <00:25:52.845>know, <00:25:53.195>tech <00:25:53.545>people,

593
00:25:54.015 --> 00:25:56.685
<00:25:54.015>developers <00:25:54.190>especially <00:25:54.365>have <00:25:54.540>a <00:25:54.715>great <00:25:54.890>skill <00:25:55.065>set <00:25:55.240>in <00:25:55.415>working

594
00:25:56.745 --> 00:25:58.485
<00:25:56.745>to <00:25:57.024>projects <00:25:57.304>and <00:25:57.584>working <00:25:57.864>to <00:25:58.145>deadlines.

595
00:25:58.545 --> 00:26:01.165
<00:25:58.545>You <00:25:58.778>know, <00:25:59.011>that's <00:25:59.245>their <00:25:59.478>world, <00:25:59.711>right? <00:25:59.945>Yeah.

596
00:26:01.225 --> 00:26:02.485
<00:26:01.225>But <00:26:01.366>then <00:26:01.508>you <00:26:01.650>look <00:26:01.792>at <00:26:01.933>sort <00:26:02.075>of, <00:26:02.217>you <00:26:02.359>know,

597
00:26:02.485 --> 00:26:03.645
<00:26:02.485>wider <00:26:02.832>in <00:26:03.181>the <00:26:03.529>marketplace

598
00:26:03.665 --> 00:26:05.085
<00:26:03.665>and <00:26:03.878>you've <00:26:04.091>seen <00:26:04.304>people <00:26:04.517>like, <00:26:04.730>you <00:26:04.943>know,

599
00:26:05.085 --> 00:26:06.565
<00:26:05.085>where <00:26:05.307>it <00:26:05.529>hasn't <00:26:05.751>worked <00:26:05.973>so <00:26:06.195>well, <00:26:06.417>so,

600
00:26:06.585 --> 00:26:08.405
<00:26:06.585>or <00:26:06.785>has <00:26:06.985>worked <00:26:07.185>well, <00:26:07.385>hasn't <00:26:07.585>worked <00:26:07.785>so <00:26:07.985>well.

601
00:26:08.945 --> 00:26:11.725
<00:26:08.945>So <00:26:09.072>if <00:26:09.199>you <00:26:09.326>think <00:26:09.454>about <00:26:09.581>some <00:26:09.708>of <00:26:09.835>the, <00:26:09.963>um, <00:26:10.090>you <00:26:10.217>know, <00:26:10.345>companies,

602
00:26:11.725 --> 00:26:14.405
<00:26:11.725>some <00:26:11.880>of <00:26:12.036>the <00:26:12.191>big <00:26:12.347>tech <00:26:12.502>companies <00:26:12.658>like, <00:26:12.813>you <00:26:12.969>know, <00:26:13.125>slack,

603
00:26:14.405 --> 00:26:15.845
<00:26:14.405>take <00:26:14.621>Slack, <00:26:14.837>Slack's <00:26:15.053>a <00:26:15.269>great <00:26:15.485>one, <00:26:15.701>right?

604
00:26:15.845 --> 00:26:17.125
<00:26:15.845>So <00:26:16.075>it's <00:26:16.305>a <00:26:16.536>remote <00:26:16.766>first <00:26:16.997>culture

605
00:26:17.185 --> 00:26:18.965
<00:26:17.185>by <00:26:17.385>its <00:26:17.585>very <00:26:17.784>nature <00:26:17.985>of <00:26:18.185>its <00:26:18.385>brand, <00:26:18.585>right?

606
00:26:18.965 --> 00:26:21.165
<00:26:18.965>Mm-Hmm. <00:26:19.120>But <00:26:19.276>it <00:26:19.431>said <00:26:19.587>to <00:26:19.742>people, <00:26:19.898>look, <00:26:20.053>we <00:26:20.209>need <00:26:20.365>you

607
00:26:21.165 --> 00:26:22.325
<00:26:21.165>to <00:26:21.339>come <00:26:21.513>in <00:26:21.687>three <00:26:21.861>days <00:26:22.035>a <00:26:22.209>week.

608
00:26:23.225 --> 00:26:26.325
<00:26:23.225>And <00:26:23.380>I <00:26:23.536>think <00:26:23.691>there <00:26:23.847>was <00:26:24.002>some <00:26:24.158>initial <00:26:24.313>resistance <00:26:24.469>from <00:26:24.625>that,

609
00:26:26.745 --> 00:26:28.685
<00:26:26.745>but <00:26:26.900>actually <00:26:27.056>it <00:26:27.211>looks <00:26:27.367>now <00:26:27.522>that, <00:26:27.678>you <00:26:27.833>know, <00:26:27.989>it's, <00:26:28.145>it's,

610
00:26:28.715 --> 00:26:29.845
<00:26:28.715>it's <00:26:28.969>working <00:26:29.223>well <00:26:29.477>for <00:26:29.732>them

611
00:26:29.845 --> 00:26:31.885
<00:26:29.845>and <00:26:30.125>there's <00:26:30.405>better <00:26:30.685>collaboration, <00:26:30.965>strong <00:26:31.245>sense

612
00:26:31.965 --> 00:26:33.925
<00:26:31.965>of <00:26:32.245>team <00:26:32.524>culture, <00:26:32.804>productivity, <00:26:33.084>et <00:26:33.365>cetera.

613
00:26:34.345 --> 00:26:35.805
<00:26:34.345>So <00:26:34.607>they've <00:26:34.870>kind <00:26:35.133>of <00:26:35.396>addressed <00:26:35.659>it

614
00:26:35.805 --> 00:26:37.445
<00:26:35.805>and <00:26:35.980>said, <00:26:36.155>yeah, <00:26:36.330>you <00:26:36.505>know, <00:26:36.680>look, <00:26:36.855>you <00:26:37.030>don't <00:26:37.205>have

615
00:26:37.445 --> 00:26:38.485
<00:26:37.445>to <00:26:37.601>come <00:26:37.756>back <00:26:37.913>all <00:26:38.069>the <00:26:38.225>time, <00:26:38.380>but

616
00:26:38.595 --> 00:26:39.845
<00:26:38.595>there's <00:26:38.782>some <00:26:38.970>things <00:26:39.157>you <00:26:39.345>need <00:26:39.532>to <00:26:39.720>do.

617
00:26:39.845 --> 00:26:40.845
<00:26:39.845>And <00:26:40.070>I <00:26:40.295>think, <00:26:40.520>you <00:26:40.745>know,

618
00:26:40.845 --> 00:26:42.605
<00:26:40.845>apple <00:26:41.078>was <00:26:41.311>very <00:26:41.545>vocal <00:26:41.778>about <00:26:42.011>getting <00:26:42.245>people

619
00:26:42.605 --> 00:26:43.630
<00:26:42.605>back <00:26:42.912>into <00:26:43.220>the <00:26:43.527>office.

620
00:26:43.835 --> 00:26:46.645
<00:26:43.835>Yeah. <00:26:43.990>You <00:26:44.146>know, <00:26:44.301>we <00:26:44.457>need <00:26:44.612>to <00:26:44.768>have <00:26:44.923>the <00:26:45.079>in-person <00:26:45.235>collaboration,

621
00:26:46.775 --> 00:26:49.165
<00:26:46.775>we've <00:26:46.950>gotta <00:26:47.125>have <00:26:47.300>the <00:26:47.475>innovation <00:26:47.650>that <00:26:47.825>only, <00:26:48.000>you <00:26:48.175>know,

622
00:26:49.165 --> 00:26:50.245
<00:26:49.165>being <00:26:49.489>together <00:26:49.812>can <00:26:50.137>do.

623
00:26:50.785 --> 00:26:52.645
<00:26:50.785>And <00:26:50.960>I <00:26:51.135>think <00:26:51.310>while <00:26:51.485>they've <00:26:51.660>had <00:26:51.835>some <00:26:52.010>challenges, <00:26:52.185>they,

624
00:26:52.645 --> 00:26:54.365
<00:26:52.645>they <00:26:52.878>seem <00:26:53.111>to <00:26:53.345>be <00:26:53.578>quite <00:26:53.811>positive <00:26:54.045>in

625
00:26:54.365 --> 00:26:56.165
<00:26:54.365>what <00:26:54.520>they've <00:26:54.676>said <00:26:54.831>about <00:26:54.987>it <00:26:55.142>in <00:26:55.298>terms <00:26:55.453>of, <00:26:55.609>you <00:26:55.765>know,

626
00:26:56.605 --> 00:26:57.925
<00:26:56.605>employee <00:26:57.199>satisfaction, <00:26:57.793>productivity,

627
00:26:58.505 --> 00:27:00.645
<00:26:58.505>but <00:26:58.705>then <00:26:58.905>you've <00:26:59.105>had <00:26:59.305>other <00:26:59.505>companies <00:26:59.705>which <00:26:59.905>are

628
00:27:00.645 --> 00:27:01.685
<00:27:00.645>big, <00:27:00.879>which <00:27:01.113>have <00:27:01.347>really <00:27:01.581>struggled.

629
00:27:01.685 --> 00:27:03.805
<00:27:01.685>And <00:27:01.812>I <00:27:01.939>think, <00:27:02.066>you <00:27:02.194>know, <00:27:02.321>Twitter <00:27:02.448>is <00:27:02.575>a, <00:27:02.703>is <00:27:02.830>a <00:27:02.957>good <00:27:03.085>example.

630
00:27:03.905 --> 00:27:07.005
<00:27:03.905>So, <00:27:04.080>you <00:27:04.254>know, <00:27:04.430>good <00:27:04.605>old <00:27:04.780>Elon's <00:27:04.955>mandating, <00:27:05.129>you <00:27:05.305>know,

631
00:27:07.225 --> 00:27:08.445
<00:27:07.225>that's <00:27:07.591>Elon's <00:27:07.956>way, <00:27:08.322>right?

632
00:27:08.715 --> 00:27:11.085
<00:27:08.715>Mandating <00:27:09.064>every <00:27:09.415>Twitter <00:27:09.764>employee <00:27:10.115>must

633
00:27:11.185 --> 00:27:12.405
<00:27:11.185>return <00:27:11.459>to <00:27:11.734>office <00:27:12.008>full <00:27:12.283>time.

634
00:27:13.025 --> 00:27:14.605
<00:27:13.025>And <00:27:13.258>that <00:27:13.491>obviously <00:27:13.725>got <00:27:13.958>great <00:27:14.191>backlash, <00:27:14.425>right?

635
00:27:14.725 --> 00:27:17.285
<00:27:14.725>I <00:27:14.852>mean, <00:27:14.979>you <00:27:15.106>know, <00:27:15.234>a <00:27:15.361>lot <00:27:15.488>of <00:27:15.615>people <00:27:15.743>left, <00:27:15.870>you <00:27:15.997>know, <00:27:16.125>because

636
00:27:17.305 --> 00:27:18.725
<00:27:17.305>You <00:27:17.518>said <00:27:17.731>you <00:27:17.944>have <00:27:18.157>to <00:27:18.370>come, <00:27:18.582>come

637
00:27:18.725 --> 00:27:20.725
<00:27:18.725>to <00:27:18.925>office <00:27:19.125>tomorrow, <00:27:19.324>at <00:27:19.524>least <00:27:19.725>the <00:27:19.925>others. <00:27:20.125>Yeah,

638
00:27:20.725 --> 00:27:21.725
<00:27:20.725>Yeah. <00:27:20.949>Come <00:27:21.175>to <00:27:21.399>the <00:27:21.625>office

639
00:27:21.725 --> 00:27:22.405
<00:27:21.725>tomorrow, <00:27:22.337>don't

640
00:27:23.035 --> 00:27:25.005
<00:27:23.035>Prepare <00:27:23.385>yourself <00:27:23.735>And, <00:27:24.085>uh, <00:27:24.435>yeah.

641
00:27:25.065 --> 00:27:27.325
<00:27:25.065>You <00:27:25.220>know, <00:27:25.376>so, <00:27:25.531>and <00:27:25.687>that, <00:27:25.842>I <00:27:25.998>think <00:27:26.153>that <00:27:26.309>really <00:27:26.465>shows

642
00:27:27.325 --> 00:27:29.005
<00:27:27.325>that <00:27:27.525>it's <00:27:27.725>a <00:27:27.925>risk, <00:27:28.125>you <00:27:28.325>know, <00:27:28.525>to <00:27:28.725>force

643
00:27:29.565 --> 00:27:30.805
<00:27:29.565>employees <00:27:29.788>back <00:27:30.011>into <00:27:30.234>the <00:27:30.457>office <00:27:30.681>Mm-Hmm.

644
00:27:30.835 --> 00:27:33.205
<00:27:30.835>Without <00:27:31.301>considering <00:27:31.768>the <00:27:32.235>preference

645
00:27:33.205 --> 00:27:34.765
<00:27:33.205>or <00:27:33.405>needs <00:27:33.605>of <00:27:33.804>what <00:27:34.004>they <00:27:34.205>want, <00:27:34.405>you <00:27:34.605>know?

646
00:27:34.865 --> 00:27:37.845
<00:27:34.865>Mm-Hmm. <00:27:35.005>So, <00:27:35.145>but <00:27:35.285>Microsoft <00:27:35.425>as <00:27:35.565>well, <00:27:35.705>I <00:27:35.845>think, <00:27:35.985>you <00:27:36.125>know, <00:27:36.265>they,

647
00:27:37.845 --> 00:27:40.605
<00:27:37.845>they <00:27:38.000>initially <00:27:38.156>push <00:27:38.311>for <00:27:38.467>that <00:27:38.622>kind <00:27:38.778>of <00:27:38.933>hybrid <00:27:39.089>work <00:27:39.245>model,

648
00:27:41.345 --> 00:27:43.565
<00:27:41.345>you <00:27:41.500>know, <00:27:41.656>but <00:27:41.811>it's <00:27:41.967>really <00:27:42.122>faced <00:27:42.278>challenges <00:27:42.433>in <00:27:42.589>getting <00:27:42.745>people

649
00:27:43.565 --> 00:27:44.565
<00:27:43.565>to <00:27:43.745>come <00:27:43.925>back <00:27:44.105>to <00:27:44.285>the <00:27:44.465>office.

650
00:27:44.785 --> 00:27:46.005
<00:27:44.785>And <00:27:45.059>I <00:27:45.334>think <00:27:45.608>that <00:27:45.883>suggests

651
00:27:46.005 --> 00:27:48.365
<00:27:46.005>that <00:27:46.205>even <00:27:46.405>the <00:27:46.605>biggest <00:27:46.805>tech <00:27:47.005>giants <00:27:47.205>can <00:27:47.405>struggle

652
00:27:48.385 --> 00:27:50.965
<00:27:48.385>to <00:27:48.735>enforce <00:27:49.085>office <00:27:49.435>return <00:27:49.785>policies.

653
00:27:51.075 --> 00:27:53.245
<00:27:51.075>Yeah. <00:27:51.275>Especially <00:27:51.475>in <00:27:51.675>the <00:27:51.875>face <00:27:52.075>of <00:27:52.275>employee <00:27:52.475>resistance.

654
00:27:53.245 --> 00:27:55.765
<00:27:53.245>So <00:27:53.400>I <00:27:53.556>think <00:27:53.711>there's, <00:27:53.867>there's <00:27:54.022>some <00:27:54.178>factors <00:27:54.333>they, <00:27:54.489>you <00:27:54.645>have

655
00:27:55.765 --> 00:27:59.805
<00:27:55.765>to <00:27:55.920>consider <00:27:56.076>for <00:27:56.231>success <00:27:56.387>or <00:27:56.542>failure <00:27:56.698>of <00:27:56.853>both <00:27:57.009>remote <00:27:57.165>work

656
00:27:59.805 --> 00:28:01.405
<00:27:59.805>or <00:28:00.038>returning <00:28:00.271>to <00:28:00.505>work <00:28:00.738>or <00:28:00.971>hybrid <00:28:01.205>work.

657
00:28:01.405 --> 00:28:02.485
<00:28:01.405>And <00:28:01.648>I <00:28:01.890>think, <00:28:02.134>you <00:28:02.377>know,

658
00:28:02.485 --> 00:28:04.285
<00:28:02.485>the <00:28:02.659>first <00:28:02.834>one's <00:28:03.010>like <00:28:03.185>the <00:28:03.360>company <00:28:03.534>culture, <00:28:03.709>you <00:28:03.885>know,

659
00:28:04.805 --> 00:28:08.005
<00:28:04.805>I <00:28:04.960>think <00:28:05.116>if <00:28:05.271>you've <00:28:05.427>got <00:28:05.582>a <00:28:05.738>strong <00:28:05.893>culture <00:28:06.049>of <00:28:06.205>collaboration,

660
00:28:08.415 --> 00:28:11.325
<00:28:08.415>Oprah <00:28:08.615>interaction, <00:28:08.815>you're <00:28:09.014>probably <00:28:09.215>more <00:28:09.415>likely <00:28:09.615>to <00:28:09.815>sit,

661
00:28:11.325 --> 00:28:14.245
<00:28:11.325>succeed <00:28:11.525>in <00:28:11.725>bringing <00:28:11.925>people <00:28:12.125>back <00:28:12.325>into <00:28:12.525>the <00:28:12.725>office

662
00:28:14.245 --> 00:28:17.405
<00:28:14.245>because <00:28:14.400>people <00:28:14.556>will <00:28:14.711>miss <00:28:14.867>that <00:28:15.022>and <00:28:15.178>people <00:28:15.333>will <00:28:15.489>value <00:28:15.645>that.

663
00:28:17.905 --> 00:28:19.485
<00:28:17.905>So <00:28:18.080>if <00:28:18.254>you <00:28:18.430>have <00:28:18.605>that <00:28:18.780>in <00:28:18.955>the <00:28:19.129>first <00:28:19.305>place,

664
00:28:19.585 --> 00:28:22.565
<00:28:19.585>you <00:28:19.725>can <00:28:19.865>probably <00:28:20.005>get <00:28:20.145>people <00:28:20.285>to <00:28:20.425>come <00:28:20.565>back <00:28:20.705>like, <00:28:20.845>you <00:28:20.985>know,

665
00:28:22.655 --> 00:28:24.325
<00:28:22.655>slack <00:28:22.855>did <00:28:23.055>three <00:28:23.254>days <00:28:23.455>a <00:28:23.655>week, <00:28:23.855>for <00:28:24.055>example.

666
00:28:24.475 --> 00:28:25.605
<00:28:24.475>Yeah. <00:28:25.492>Mm-Hmm.

667
00:28:25.685 --> 00:28:27.045
<00:28:25.685>But <00:28:25.929>then <00:28:26.174>you've <00:28:26.419>got <00:28:26.664>employee <00:28:26.909>preference,

668
00:28:27.045 --> 00:28:28.965
<00:28:27.045>and <00:28:27.220>this <00:28:27.395>survey <00:28:27.570>shows <00:28:27.745>that, <00:28:27.920>you <00:28:28.095>know, <00:28:28.270>a <00:28:28.445>lot

669
00:28:28.965 --> 00:28:30.805
<00:28:28.965>of <00:28:29.165>'em <00:28:29.365>strongly <00:28:29.564>prefer <00:28:29.764>remote <00:28:29.965>or <00:28:30.165>hybrid <00:28:30.365>working.

670
00:28:31.305 --> 00:28:33.645
<00:28:31.305>So <00:28:31.460>if <00:28:31.616>you <00:28:31.771>enforce <00:28:31.927>a <00:28:32.082>return <00:28:32.238>to <00:28:32.393>the <00:28:32.549>office, <00:28:32.705>then

671
00:28:33.645 --> 00:28:35.965
<00:28:33.645>that's <00:28:33.995>going <00:28:34.345>naturally <00:28:34.695>decrease <00:28:35.045>morale,

672
00:28:35.965 --> 00:28:37.645
<00:28:35.965>productivity, <00:28:36.431>lead <00:28:36.898>to <00:28:37.365>attrition.

673
00:28:38.625 --> 00:28:40.045
<00:28:38.625>And <00:28:38.784>then <00:28:38.944>you've <00:28:39.104>got <00:28:39.264>the <00:28:39.423>nature <00:28:39.583>of <00:28:39.743>the <00:28:39.903>job

674
00:28:40.105 --> 00:28:42.205
<00:28:40.105>or <00:28:40.305>the <00:28:40.505>product, <00:28:40.705>the <00:28:40.905>project <00:28:41.105>they're <00:28:41.305>working <00:28:41.505>on.

675
00:28:42.225 --> 00:28:44.245
<00:28:42.225>You <00:28:42.458>know, <00:28:42.691>some <00:28:42.925>jobs <00:28:43.158>or <00:28:43.391>projects <00:28:43.625>require

676
00:28:44.315 --> 00:28:46.085
<00:28:44.315>that <00:28:44.595>in-person <00:28:44.875>collaboration <00:28:45.155>more <00:28:45.435>than <00:28:45.715>others.

677
00:28:46.585 --> 00:28:49.525
<00:28:46.585>So <00:28:46.740>do <00:28:46.896>you <00:28:47.051>have <00:28:47.207>to <00:28:47.362>be <00:28:47.518>flexible <00:28:47.673>around <00:28:47.829>the <00:28:47.985>frequency

678
00:28:49.525 --> 00:28:52.085
<00:28:49.525>of <00:28:49.680>meetings <00:28:49.836>or <00:28:49.991>the <00:28:50.147>type <00:28:50.302>of <00:28:50.458>project <00:28:50.613>they're <00:28:50.769>working <00:28:50.925>on

679
00:28:52.635 --> 00:28:53.645
<00:28:52.635>from <00:28:52.862>being <00:28:53.089>in <00:28:53.316>the <00:28:53.543>office?

680
00:28:53.825 --> 00:28:56.845
<00:28:53.825>And <00:28:53.980>I <00:28:54.136>think <00:28:54.291>it <00:28:54.447>all <00:28:54.602>comes <00:28:54.758>down <00:28:54.913>to <00:28:55.069>that <00:28:55.225>flexibility

681
00:28:56.905 --> 00:29:00.365
<00:28:56.905>of <00:28:57.105>offering <00:28:57.305>your <00:28:57.504>people <00:28:57.705>the <00:28:57.905>flexibility <00:28:58.105>in <00:28:58.305>terms

682
00:29:00.365 --> 00:29:01.885
<00:29:00.365>of <00:29:00.638>their <00:29:00.912>work <00:29:01.185>hours <00:29:01.459>or <00:29:01.733>location.

683
00:29:02.505 --> 00:29:03.925
<00:29:02.505>And <00:29:02.760>that <00:29:03.016>can <00:29:03.271>really <00:29:03.527>help <00:29:03.783>mitigate,

684
00:29:04.065 --> 00:29:05.245
<00:29:04.065>you <00:29:04.419>know, <00:29:04.773>negative <00:29:05.127>impacts.

685
00:29:05.265 --> 00:29:07.725
<00:29:05.265>So <00:29:05.405>if <00:29:05.545>you <00:29:05.685>say <00:29:05.825>to <00:29:05.965>people, <00:29:06.105>you <00:29:06.245>know, <00:29:06.385>you <00:29:06.525>don't <00:29:06.665>need

686
00:29:07.725 --> 00:29:10.485
<00:29:07.725>to <00:29:07.865>work <00:29:08.004>nine <00:29:08.145>to <00:29:08.284>five <00:29:08.425>Monday <00:29:08.564>to <00:29:08.705>Friday, <00:29:08.844>you <00:29:08.985>just <00:29:09.125>need

687
00:29:10.485 --> 00:29:11.485
<00:29:10.485>to <00:29:10.709>get <00:29:10.935>the <00:29:11.159>job <00:29:11.385>done.

688
00:29:11.675 --> 00:29:15.165
<00:29:11.675>Yeah, <00:29:11.830>exactly. <00:29:11.986>And <00:29:12.141>that <00:29:12.297>can <00:29:12.452>be <00:29:12.608>really, <00:29:12.763>really <00:29:12.919>empowering <00:29:13.075>to,

689
00:29:15.335 --> 00:29:17.645
<00:29:15.335>especially <00:29:15.535>I <00:29:15.735>think <00:29:15.935>to <00:29:16.135>developers <00:29:16.335>and <00:29:16.535>tech <00:29:16.735>people.

690
00:29:17.705 --> 00:29:20.005
<00:29:17.705>But, <00:29:17.905>um, <00:29:18.105>but <00:29:18.304>I <00:29:18.504>think <00:29:18.705>ultimately <00:29:18.905>the <00:29:19.105>success

691
00:29:20.005 --> 00:29:22.085
<00:29:20.005>or <00:29:20.205>failure <00:29:20.405>of <00:29:20.605>a <00:29:20.805>an <00:29:21.005>off <00:29:21.205>a <00:29:21.405>return

692
00:29:22.085 --> 00:29:25.125
<00:29:22.085>to <00:29:22.225>the <00:29:22.365>office <00:29:22.505>policy <00:29:22.645>depends <00:29:22.785>on <00:29:22.925>a <00:29:23.065>variety <00:29:23.205>of <00:29:23.345>these <00:29:23.485>factors.

693
00:29:25.125 --> 00:29:26.525
<00:29:25.125>And <00:29:25.335>there's <00:29:25.545>no <00:29:25.755>one <00:29:25.965>size <00:29:26.175>fits <00:29:26.385>all.

694
00:29:26.525 --> 00:29:29.125
<00:29:26.525>You've <00:29:26.725>gotta, <00:29:26.925>you've <00:29:27.125>gotta <00:29:27.325>understand <00:29:27.525>your <00:29:27.725>culture. <00:29:27.925>Yep.

695
00:29:29.475 --> 00:29:31.325
<00:29:29.475>Your <00:29:29.824>employee <00:29:30.175>preferences, <00:29:30.524>the <00:29:30.875>nature

696
00:29:31.325 --> 00:29:32.325
<00:29:31.325>of <00:29:31.505>the <00:29:31.685>work <00:29:31.865>they're <00:29:32.045>doing, <00:29:32.225>and

697
00:29:32.325 --> 00:29:33.965
<00:29:32.325>what <00:29:32.605>flexibility <00:29:32.885>you're <00:29:33.165>prepared <00:29:33.445>to <00:29:33.725>offer.

698
00:29:34.585 --> 00:29:37.245
<00:29:34.585>And <00:29:34.725>I <00:29:34.865>think, <00:29:35.005>you <00:29:35.145>know, <00:29:35.285>that's <00:29:35.425>something <00:29:35.565>I <00:29:35.705>think, <00:29:35.845>you <00:29:35.985>know,

699
00:29:37.665 --> 00:29:39.245
<00:29:37.665>we <00:29:37.865>should <00:29:38.065>do <00:29:38.264>a <00:29:38.465>whole <00:29:38.665>new <00:29:38.865>survey <00:29:39.065>on

700
00:29:39.245 --> 00:29:41.565
<00:29:39.245>and <00:29:39.524>just, <00:29:39.804>I <00:29:40.084>think <00:29:40.364>he <00:29:40.645>would.

701
00:29:43.355 --> 00:29:46.285
<00:29:43.355>Okay. <00:29:43.510>I, <00:29:43.666>I, <00:29:43.821>I'm, <00:29:43.977>look, <00:29:44.132>I'm <00:29:44.288>looking <00:29:44.443>at <00:29:44.599>the <00:29:44.755>watch

702
00:29:46.285 --> 00:29:48.045
<00:29:46.285>and <00:29:46.565>I <00:29:46.845>mean, <00:29:47.125>it <00:29:47.405>was <00:29:47.685>fantastic.

703
00:29:48.285 --> 00:29:51.445
<00:29:48.285>I <00:29:48.460>mean, <00:29:48.635>we <00:29:48.810>already <00:29:48.985>had <00:29:49.160>29 <00:29:49.335>minutes, <00:29:49.510>uh, <00:29:49.685>together

704
00:29:51.705 --> 00:29:53.765
<00:29:51.705>and <00:29:51.860>could, <00:29:52.016>I <00:29:52.171>think <00:29:52.327>it <00:29:52.482>could <00:29:52.638>last <00:29:52.793>for <00:29:52.949>another <00:29:53.105>one

705
00:29:53.765 --> 00:29:55.845
<00:29:53.765>and <00:29:53.892>a <00:29:54.019>half <00:29:54.146>hours, <00:29:54.274>but <00:29:54.401>we <00:29:54.528>want <00:29:54.655>to <00:29:54.783>keep <00:29:54.910>it <00:29:55.037>short <00:29:55.165>and,

706
00:29:55.865 --> 00:29:56.965
<00:29:55.865>and, <00:29:56.112>and, <00:29:56.360>and, <00:29:56.607>and <00:29:56.855>simple.

707
00:29:57.865 --> 00:30:00.445
<00:29:57.865>Uh, <00:29:58.040>so <00:29:58.215>I <00:29:58.390>have <00:29:58.565>a <00:29:58.740>final <00:29:58.915>round <00:29:59.090>of <00:29:59.265>questions

708
00:30:00.545 --> 00:30:04.965
<00:30:00.545>and <00:30:00.661>that <00:30:00.778>I <00:30:00.895>would <00:30:01.011>ask <00:30:01.128>you, <00:30:01.245>all <00:30:01.361>of <00:30:01.478>you <00:30:01.595>to <00:30:01.711>give <00:30:01.828>one <00:30:01.945>tip

709
00:30:05.565 --> 00:30:07.765
<00:30:05.565>probably <00:30:05.740>coming <00:30:05.915>out <00:30:06.090>of <00:30:06.265>the <00:30:06.440>results <00:30:06.615>of <00:30:06.790>the <00:30:06.965>study

710
00:30:08.235 --> 00:30:12.885
<00:30:08.235>that <00:30:08.390>we <00:30:08.546>could <00:30:08.701>give <00:30:08.857>to <00:30:09.012>our <00:30:09.168>B2B <00:30:09.323>audience, <00:30:09.479>uh, <00:30:09.635>uh,

711
00:30:13.105 --> 00:30:17.165
<00:30:13.105>for <00:30:13.245>probably <00:30:13.385>making <00:30:13.525>a <00:30:13.665>little <00:30:13.805>bit <00:30:13.945>easier <00:30:14.085>to <00:30:14.225>solve <00:30:14.365>the <00:30:14.505>issue

712
00:30:17.265 --> 00:30:18.605
<00:30:17.265>of <00:30:17.667>getting <00:30:18.069>good <00:30:18.471>talent.

713
00:30:18.945 --> 00:30:20.845
<00:30:18.945>So <00:30:19.145>I <00:30:19.345>would <00:30:19.544>like <00:30:19.745>to <00:30:19.945>start <00:30:20.145>with <00:30:20.345>Ivana.

714
00:30:20.845 --> 00:30:24.245
<00:30:20.845>If <00:30:20.952>you <00:30:21.060>look <00:30:21.168>on <00:30:21.275>the <00:30:21.383>study, <00:30:21.491>what <00:30:21.598>do <00:30:21.706>you <00:30:21.814>think <00:30:21.921>could <00:30:22.029>be <00:30:22.137>one <00:30:22.245>tip

715
00:30:24.345 --> 00:30:25.365
<00:30:24.345>and <00:30:24.651>would <00:30:24.957>ask <00:30:25.263>John

716
00:30:25.425 --> 00:30:29.565
<00:30:25.425>and <00:30:25.552>Adnan <00:30:25.679>as <00:30:25.806>well <00:30:25.934>to <00:30:26.061>give <00:30:26.188>probably <00:30:26.315>one <00:30:26.443>final <00:30:26.570>tip <00:30:26.697>coming <00:30:26.825>out

717
00:30:29.565 --> 00:30:31.365
<00:30:29.565>of <00:30:29.740>the <00:30:29.915>results <00:30:30.090>of <00:30:30.265>the <00:30:30.440>survey, <00:30:30.615>which <00:30:30.790>we <00:30:30.965>could

718
00:30:32.005 --> 00:30:33.845
<00:30:32.005>probably <00:30:32.285>forward <00:30:32.565>to, <00:30:32.845>to <00:30:33.125>our <00:30:33.405>audience?

719
00:30:35.645 --> 00:30:39.165
<00:30:35.645>I <00:30:35.800>think <00:30:35.956>for <00:30:36.111>me, <00:30:36.267>the <00:30:36.422>main <00:30:36.578>tip <00:30:36.733>would <00:30:36.889>be <00:30:37.045>to,

720
00:30:39.545 --> 00:30:40.925
<00:30:39.545>and <00:30:39.855>it <00:30:40.166>might <00:30:40.476>sound <00:30:40.787>obvious,

721
00:30:41.145 --> 00:30:44.245
<00:30:41.145>but <00:30:41.285>we're <00:30:41.425>seeing <00:30:41.565>it <00:30:41.705>on <00:30:41.845>a <00:30:41.985>daily <00:30:42.125>business <00:30:42.264>that <00:30:42.405>a <00:30:42.545>lot

722
00:30:44.245 --> 00:30:46.125
<00:30:44.245>of <00:30:44.524>companies <00:30:44.804>are <00:30:45.084>still <00:30:45.364>not <00:30:45.645>implementing.

723
00:30:46.125 --> 00:30:47.205
<00:30:46.125>That <00:30:47.097>is

724
00:30:47.545 --> 00:30:50.965
<00:30:47.545>before <00:30:47.778>reaching <00:30:48.011>out <00:30:48.245>to <00:30:48.478>developers, <00:30:48.711>really <00:30:48.945>trying

725
00:30:50.965 --> 00:30:52.565
<00:30:50.965>to <00:30:51.314>understand <00:30:51.665>a <00:30:52.014>target <00:30:52.365>audience.

726
00:30:52.965 --> 00:30:55.445
<00:30:52.965>I <00:30:53.120>mean, <00:30:53.276>you <00:30:53.431>don't <00:30:53.587>have <00:30:53.742>to <00:30:53.898>be <00:30:54.053>a <00:30:54.209>tech <00:30:54.365>guru

727
00:30:55.505 --> 00:30:56.765
<00:30:55.505>or <00:30:55.883>a <00:30:56.261>developer <00:30:56.639>guru,

728
00:30:57.385 --> 00:31:01.165
<00:30:57.385>but <00:30:57.540>I <00:30:57.696>think <00:30:57.851>that <00:30:58.007>just, <00:30:58.162>um, <00:30:58.318>having <00:30:58.473>a <00:30:58.629>look <00:30:58.785>about

729
00:31:01.555 --> 00:31:03.725
<00:31:01.555>what <00:31:01.835>is <00:31:02.115>a <00:31:02.395>priority <00:31:02.675>for <00:31:02.955>developers,

730
00:31:04.025 --> 00:31:06.725
<00:31:04.025>so <00:31:04.225>work-life <00:31:04.425>balance <00:31:04.625>practices, <00:31:04.825>what's <00:31:05.025>important <00:31:05.225>to <00:31:05.425>them,

731
00:31:06.725 --> 00:31:09.725
<00:31:06.725>flexibility, <00:31:07.004>remote, <00:31:07.284>remote <00:31:07.564>work <00:31:07.844>options, <00:31:08.125>salary,

732
00:31:09.725 --> 00:31:11.405
<00:31:09.725>transparency <00:31:09.958>in <00:31:10.191>a <00:31:10.425>job, <00:31:10.658>ed, <00:31:10.891>I <00:31:11.125>mean,

733
00:31:11.405 --> 00:31:12.885
<00:31:11.405>latest <00:31:11.738>at <00:31:12.071>the <00:31:12.404>interview <00:31:12.737>stage,

734
00:31:12.885 --> 00:31:14.845
<00:31:12.885>they <00:31:13.118>will <00:31:13.351>ask <00:31:13.585>you <00:31:13.818>about <00:31:14.051>the <00:31:14.285>salary.

735
00:31:15.065 --> 00:31:16.965
<00:31:15.065>So <00:31:15.265>include <00:31:15.465>that <00:31:15.665>as <00:31:15.865>soon <00:31:16.065>as <00:31:16.265>you <00:31:16.465>can.

736
00:31:17.545 --> 00:31:21.045
<00:31:17.545>Um, <00:31:17.778>and <00:31:18.011>then <00:31:18.245>also, <00:31:18.478>um, <00:31:18.711>ask <00:31:18.945>questions.

737
00:31:21.285 --> 00:31:25.165
<00:31:21.285>I <00:31:21.425>mean, <00:31:21.565>you <00:31:21.705>have <00:31:21.845>developers <00:31:21.985>in <00:31:22.125>your <00:31:22.265>company <00:31:22.405>ask <00:31:22.545>them <00:31:22.685>what's

738
00:31:25.165 --> 00:31:28.005
<00:31:25.165>important <00:31:25.340>to <00:31:25.514>them, <00:31:25.690>what, <00:31:25.865>uh, <00:31:26.040>they <00:31:26.215>feel <00:31:26.389>like, <00:31:26.565>um,

739
00:31:28.005 --> 00:31:29.805
<00:31:28.005>should <00:31:28.205>be <00:31:28.405>a <00:31:28.605>higher <00:31:28.805>priority <00:31:29.005>in <00:31:29.205>the <00:31:29.405>company.

740
00:31:30.155 --> 00:31:33.845
<00:31:30.155>Also <00:31:30.310>create <00:31:30.466>a <00:31:30.621>company <00:31:30.777>culture <00:31:30.932>that <00:31:31.088>is <00:31:31.243>also <00:31:31.399>has <00:31:31.555>room

741
00:31:33.945 --> 00:31:35.765
<00:31:33.945>for <00:31:34.645>developer <00:31:35.345>preferences.

742
00:31:36.105 --> 00:31:39.525
<00:31:36.105>So <00:31:36.280>I <00:31:36.455>think <00:31:36.630>that's <00:31:36.805>a <00:31:36.980>really <00:31:37.155>important, <00:31:37.330>um, <00:31:37.505>thing

743
00:31:39.525 --> 00:31:42.205
<00:31:39.525>that <00:31:39.700>I <00:31:39.875>would <00:31:40.050>give <00:31:40.225>to <00:31:40.400>any <00:31:40.575>company, <00:31:40.750>just <00:31:40.925>understanding.

744
00:31:42.385 --> 00:31:44.965
<00:31:42.385>And <00:31:42.618>then, <00:31:42.851>um, <00:31:43.085>kind <00:31:43.318>of <00:31:43.551>also <00:31:43.785>looking

745
00:31:44.965 --> 00:31:46.445
<00:31:44.965>where <00:31:45.298>developers <00:31:45.630>are <00:31:45.964>hanging <00:31:46.297>out.

746
00:31:46.565 --> 00:31:49.045
<00:31:46.565>I <00:31:46.740>mean, <00:31:46.915>there's <00:31:47.090>a <00:31:47.265>lot <00:31:47.440>of <00:31:47.615>communities <00:31:47.790>out <00:31:47.965>there.

747
00:31:49.365 --> 00:31:52.045
<00:31:49.365>I <00:31:49.505>mean, <00:31:49.645>we <00:31:49.785>are <00:31:49.925>one <00:31:50.065>of <00:31:50.205>the <00:31:50.345>biggest <00:31:50.485>communities <00:31:50.625>out <00:31:50.765>there

748
00:31:52.065 --> 00:31:55.605
<00:31:52.065>as <00:31:52.205>well, <00:31:52.345>where <00:31:52.485>you <00:31:52.625>can <00:31:52.765>kind <00:31:52.905>of <00:31:53.045>see <00:31:53.185>what <00:31:53.325>developers <00:31:53.465>like

749
00:31:55.605 --> 00:31:58.805
<00:31:55.605>to <00:31:55.760>talk <00:31:55.916>to, <00:31:56.071>talk <00:31:56.227>about <00:31:56.382>what <00:31:56.538>their, <00:31:56.693>um, <00:31:56.849>you <00:31:57.005>know,

750
00:31:58.805 --> 00:32:00.085
<00:31:58.805>daily <00:31:59.381>problematics <00:31:59.957>are.

751
00:32:00.225 --> 00:32:03.925
<00:32:00.225>So <00:32:00.380>just <00:32:00.536>kind <00:32:00.691>of <00:32:00.847>researching <00:32:01.002>and <00:32:01.158>reading <00:32:01.313>and <00:32:01.469>also <00:32:01.625>listening.

752
00:32:04.085 --> 00:32:06.685
<00:32:04.085>I <00:32:04.225>think <00:32:04.365>that <00:32:04.505>could <00:32:04.645>really <00:32:04.785>go <00:32:04.925>a <00:32:05.065>long <00:32:05.205>way <00:32:05.345>for <00:32:05.485>companies.

753
00:32:07.375 --> 00:32:11.285
<00:32:07.375>Thank <00:32:07.530>you <00:32:07.686>very <00:32:07.841>much <00:32:07.997>Ivana. <00:32:08.152>John, <00:32:08.308>what's <00:32:08.463>your <00:32:08.619>tip? <00:32:08.775>Yeah,

754
00:32:11.285 --> 00:32:12.725
<00:32:11.285>It's <00:32:11.470>hard <00:32:11.655>to <00:32:11.840>get <00:32:12.025>it <00:32:12.210>down <00:32:12.395>to <00:32:12.581>one.

755
00:32:13.125 --> 00:32:15.085
<00:32:13.125>I <00:32:13.325>mean, <00:32:13.525>I <00:32:13.725>echo <00:32:13.925>everything <00:32:14.125>Ivana <00:32:14.325>said <00:32:14.525>there,

756
00:32:15.545 --> 00:32:18.555
<00:32:15.545>but <00:32:15.720>I <00:32:15.895>think, <00:32:16.070>you <00:32:16.245>know, <00:32:16.420>I'd <00:32:16.595>almost <00:32:16.770>say <00:32:16.945>this,

757
00:32:18.575 --> 00:32:20.355
<00:32:18.575>forget <00:32:18.925>the <00:32:19.275>active <00:32:19.625>candidates, <00:32:19.975>right?

758
00:32:20.355 --> 00:32:22.595
<00:32:20.355>There's <00:32:20.635>so <00:32:20.915>few <00:32:21.195>of <00:32:21.475>them. <00:32:21.755>70%

759
00:32:22.595 --> 00:32:25.955
<00:32:22.595>of <00:32:22.750>developers <00:32:22.906>are <00:32:23.061>passive <00:32:23.217>talent <00:32:23.372>waiting <00:32:23.528>to <00:32:23.683>be <00:32:23.839>engaged <00:32:23.995>with,

760
00:32:26.055 --> 00:32:27.515
<00:32:26.055>not <00:32:26.493>advertised <00:32:26.931>to, <00:32:27.369>right?

761
00:32:28.025 --> 00:32:30.075
<00:32:28.025>That <00:32:28.180>I <00:32:28.336>think <00:32:28.491>is <00:32:28.647>a <00:32:28.802>big <00:32:28.958>eye <00:32:29.113>opener <00:32:29.269>for <00:32:29.425>people,

762
00:32:30.095 --> 00:32:31.155
<00:32:30.095>and <00:32:30.333>it's <00:32:30.572>hard <00:32:30.810>to <00:32:31.049>do,

763
00:32:31.415 --> 00:32:34.195
<00:32:31.415>and <00:32:31.555>you've <00:32:31.695>gotta, <00:32:31.835>you've <00:32:31.975>got <00:32:32.115>to <00:32:32.254>invest <00:32:32.395>more <00:32:32.534>in <00:32:32.675>doing <00:32:32.815>it.

764
00:32:34.195 --> 00:32:36.035
<00:32:34.195>And <00:32:34.322>I <00:32:34.449>think <00:32:34.576>there's <00:32:34.704>a <00:32:34.831>few <00:32:34.958>things <00:32:35.085>you <00:32:35.213>can <00:32:35.340>do, <00:32:35.467>which <00:32:35.595>is

765
00:32:36.645 --> 00:32:39.805
<00:32:36.645>share <00:32:36.845>valuable <00:32:37.045>content <00:32:37.245>industry <00:32:37.445>news, <00:32:37.645>your <00:32:37.845>company <00:32:38.045>updates,

766
00:32:39.875 --> 00:32:43.045
<00:32:39.875>your <00:32:40.030>job <00:32:40.186>postings <00:32:40.341>with <00:32:40.497>the <00:32:40.652>salaries <00:32:40.808>and <00:32:40.963>benefits <00:32:41.119>on <00:32:41.275>them,

767
00:32:43.385 --> 00:32:45.885
<00:32:43.385>but <00:32:43.560>share <00:32:43.735>the <00:32:43.910>thought <00:32:44.085>leadership <00:32:44.260>that <00:32:44.435>comes <00:32:44.610>from <00:32:44.785>you

768
00:32:45.885 --> 00:32:48.565
<00:32:45.885>as <00:32:46.040>a <00:32:46.196>recruiter, <00:32:46.351>you <00:32:46.507>as <00:32:46.662>a <00:32:46.818>talent <00:32:46.973>attraction <00:32:47.129>team, <00:32:47.285>you

769
00:32:48.565 --> 00:32:52.125
<00:32:48.565>as <00:32:48.740>a <00:32:48.915>company, <00:32:49.090>and <00:32:49.265>engage <00:32:49.440>in <00:32:49.615>conversations <00:32:49.790>with <00:32:49.965>communities,

770
00:32:52.125 --> 00:32:53.365
<00:32:52.125>you <00:32:52.404>know, <00:32:52.683>answer <00:32:52.962>their <00:32:53.241>questions,

771
00:32:53.395 --> 00:32:55.805
<00:32:53.395>participate <00:32:53.745>in <00:32:54.095>discussions, <00:32:54.445>offer <00:32:54.795>advice,

772
00:32:55.805 --> 00:32:58.525
<00:32:55.805>especially <00:32:56.005>if <00:32:56.205>you <00:32:56.405>can <00:32:56.605>get <00:32:56.805>your <00:32:57.005>own <00:32:57.205>developers

773
00:32:58.875 --> 00:33:00.085
<00:32:58.875>engaged <00:32:59.147>in <00:32:59.419>that <00:32:59.691>as <00:32:59.964>well.

774
00:33:00.255 --> 00:33:02.845
<00:33:00.255>Developers <00:33:00.455>love <00:33:00.655>talking <00:33:00.855>to <00:33:01.055>developers <00:33:01.255>and <00:33:01.455>sharing <00:33:01.655>ideas.

775
00:33:03.105 --> 00:33:06.085
<00:33:03.105>So <00:33:03.245>why <00:33:03.385>not <00:33:03.525>use <00:33:03.665>your <00:33:03.805>own <00:33:03.945>talent <00:33:04.085>to <00:33:04.225>help <00:33:04.365>promote <00:33:04.505>yourself

776
00:33:06.085 --> 00:33:07.165
<00:33:06.085>as <00:33:06.328>an <00:33:06.571>employer <00:33:06.814>of <00:33:07.057>choice?

777
00:33:07.665 --> 00:33:09.405
<00:33:07.665>And <00:33:07.865>I <00:33:08.065>think <00:33:08.264>you've <00:33:08.465>gotta <00:33:08.665>build <00:33:08.865>those <00:33:09.065>relationships.

778
00:33:09.405 --> 00:33:12.605
<00:33:09.405>You've <00:33:09.605>gotta <00:33:09.805>connect <00:33:10.004>with <00:33:10.205>tech <00:33:10.405>professionals <00:33:10.605>on <00:33:10.805>LinkedIn,

779
00:33:12.625 --> 00:33:15.245
<00:33:12.625>on, <00:33:12.825>we <00:33:13.025>are <00:33:13.225>developers <00:33:13.425>on <00:33:13.625>other <00:33:13.825>community <00:33:14.025>platforms,

780
00:33:15.505 --> 00:33:17.245
<00:33:15.505>and <00:33:15.705>you've <00:33:15.905>gotta <00:33:16.105>network <00:33:16.305>with <00:33:16.505>the, <00:33:16.705>you <00:33:16.905>know,

781
00:33:17.245 --> 00:33:19.245
<00:33:17.245>with <00:33:17.445>the <00:33:17.645>influencers <00:33:17.844>in <00:33:18.044>that <00:33:18.245>industry <00:33:18.445>as <00:33:18.645>well.

782
00:33:19.425 --> 00:33:22.645
<00:33:19.425>And <00:33:19.600>show <00:33:19.774>yourself <00:33:19.950>to <00:33:20.125>be, <00:33:20.300>uh, <00:33:20.475>an <00:33:20.649>influencer, <00:33:20.825>attend,

783
00:33:22.665 --> 00:33:24.685
<00:33:22.665>you <00:33:22.840>know, <00:33:23.014>attend <00:33:23.190>the <00:33:23.365>events, <00:33:23.540>attend <00:33:23.715>the <00:33:23.889>virtual <00:33:24.065>events,

784
00:33:24.685 --> 00:33:25.685
<00:33:24.685>attend <00:33:24.985>the <00:33:25.284>real <00:33:25.585>events.

785
00:33:26.425 --> 00:33:28.365
<00:33:26.425>And <00:33:26.580>I <00:33:26.736>think <00:33:26.891>above <00:33:27.047>all, <00:33:27.202>if <00:33:27.358>you're <00:33:27.513>gonna <00:33:27.669>do <00:33:27.825>that

786
00:33:28.385 --> 00:33:31.405
<00:33:28.385>and <00:33:28.560>look <00:33:28.735>for <00:33:28.910>that <00:33:29.085>70% <00:33:29.260>passive <00:33:29.435>candidate, <00:33:29.610>you <00:33:29.785>need

787
00:33:31.405 --> 00:33:34.165
<00:33:31.405>to <00:33:31.580>be <00:33:31.754>authentic <00:33:31.930>and <00:33:32.105>you <00:33:32.280>need <00:33:32.455>to <00:33:32.629>be <00:33:32.805>transparent.

788
00:33:34.165 --> 00:33:35.325
<00:33:34.165>You've <00:33:34.513>gotta <00:33:34.861>be <00:33:35.209>yourself.

789
00:33:35.915 --> 00:33:38.005
<00:33:35.915>Show <00:33:36.115>the <00:33:36.315>personality <00:33:36.514>of <00:33:36.715>yourself <00:33:36.915>and <00:33:37.115>the <00:33:37.315>business

790
00:33:38.005 --> 00:33:41.005
<00:33:38.005>and <00:33:38.160>the <00:33:38.316>genuine <00:33:38.471>interest <00:33:38.627>you <00:33:38.782>have <00:33:38.938>in <00:33:39.093>the <00:33:39.249>tech <00:33:39.405>community.

791
00:33:41.185 --> 00:33:43.605
<00:33:41.185>Be <00:33:41.418>transparent, <00:33:41.651>be <00:33:41.885>honest <00:33:42.118>about <00:33:42.351>the <00:33:42.585>company

792
00:33:43.625 --> 00:33:45.205
<00:33:43.625>and <00:33:43.858>the <00:33:44.091>drop <00:33:44.325>opportunity <00:33:44.558>and <00:33:44.791>the <00:33:45.025>salary.

793
00:33:45.985 --> 00:33:48.085
<00:33:45.985>And <00:33:46.264>above <00:33:46.544>all, <00:33:46.824>avoid <00:33:47.104>salesy <00:33:47.385>tactics.

794
00:33:48.085 --> 00:33:50.125
<00:33:48.085>Focus <00:33:48.318>on <00:33:48.551>building <00:33:48.785>relationships <00:33:49.018>rather <00:33:49.251>than <00:33:49.485>just

795
00:33:50.555 --> 00:33:51.645
<00:33:50.555>hard <00:33:50.882>selling <00:33:51.209>your <00:33:51.536>company.

796
00:33:51.945 --> 00:33:54.725
<00:33:51.945>So <00:33:52.120>I'd <00:33:52.294>say <00:33:52.470>that's <00:33:52.645>my <00:33:52.820>advice <00:33:52.995>for <00:33:53.169>people <00:33:53.345>looking

797
00:33:54.725 --> 00:33:56.005
<00:33:54.725>to <00:33:54.955>hire <00:33:55.185>tech <00:33:55.416>talent <00:33:55.646>right <00:33:55.877>now.

798
00:33:56.705 --> 00:33:58.525
<00:33:56.705>Thanks <00:33:57.171>John. <00:33:57.638>And <00:33:58.105>Adnan,

799
00:33:58.635 --> 00:33:59.635
<00:33:58.635>Last <00:33:58.860>but <00:33:59.085>not <00:33:59.310>least. <00:33:59.535>Yeah,

800
00:33:59.635 --> 00:34:02.445
<00:33:59.635>I <00:33:59.835>think <00:34:00.035>just <00:34:00.235>have <00:34:00.435>an <00:34:00.635>advice <00:34:00.835>like <00:34:01.035>get

801
00:34:02.505 --> 00:34:03.685
<00:34:02.505>out <00:34:02.770>of <00:34:03.036>your <00:34:03.301>comfort <00:34:03.567>zone.

802
00:34:03.705 --> 00:34:05.165
<00:34:03.705>And <00:34:04.033>that's <00:34:04.361>the <00:34:04.690>very <00:34:05.019>beginning.

803
00:34:05.345 --> 00:34:07.565
<00:34:05.345>And <00:34:05.520>uh, <00:34:05.695>for <00:34:05.870>example, <00:34:06.045>do <00:34:06.220>a <00:34:06.395>simple <00:34:06.570>AB <00:34:06.745>test

804
00:34:07.565 --> 00:34:09.085
<00:34:07.565>where <00:34:07.838>on <00:34:08.112>a <00:34:08.385>side <00:34:08.659>is <00:34:08.933>something,

805
00:34:09.085 --> 00:34:11.605
<00:34:09.085>is <00:34:09.260>the <00:34:09.435>things <00:34:09.610>you <00:34:09.784>are <00:34:09.960>actually <00:34:10.135>doing <00:34:10.310>on <00:34:10.485>a,

806
00:34:11.635 --> 00:34:12.725
<00:34:11.635>from <00:34:11.962>a <00:34:12.289>hiring <00:34:12.616>strategy

807
00:34:12.745 --> 00:34:14.845
<00:34:12.745>or <00:34:12.920>employer <00:34:13.094>branding <00:34:13.270>strategy, <00:34:13.444>just <00:34:13.620>do <00:34:13.795>what <00:34:13.969>you <00:34:14.145>do.

808
00:34:15.105 --> 00:34:18.685
<00:34:15.105>But <00:34:15.260>on <00:34:15.416>a <00:34:15.571>B <00:34:15.727>side, <00:34:15.882>try <00:34:16.038>something <00:34:16.193>new <00:34:16.349>maybe <00:34:16.505>out

809
00:34:18.685 --> 00:34:21.525
<00:34:18.685>of <00:34:18.840>these <00:34:18.996>results <00:34:19.151>or <00:34:19.307>any <00:34:19.462>other <00:34:19.618>results <00:34:19.773>that <00:34:19.929>look <00:34:20.085>kind

810
00:34:21.525 --> 00:34:24.285
<00:34:21.525>of <00:34:21.700>shady <00:34:21.875>or, <00:34:22.050>okay, <00:34:22.225>I'm <00:34:22.400>not <00:34:22.575>comfortable <00:34:22.750>with <00:34:22.925>this.

811
00:34:24.385 --> 00:34:27.485
<00:34:24.385>And <00:34:24.512>then <00:34:24.639>just <00:34:24.766>compare. <00:34:24.894>And <00:34:25.021>I'm <00:34:25.148>sure <00:34:25.275>that, <00:34:25.403>uh, <00:34:25.530>you <00:34:25.657>will <00:34:25.785>see

812
00:34:27.485 --> 00:34:30.285
<00:34:27.485>that <00:34:27.640>there <00:34:27.796>are <00:34:27.951>things <00:34:28.107>that <00:34:28.262>will <00:34:28.418>contribute <00:34:28.573>to <00:34:28.729>the, <00:34:28.885>uh,

813
00:34:30.385 --> 00:34:33.565
<00:34:30.385>to <00:34:30.525>the <00:34:30.665>hiring <00:34:30.805>plans <00:34:30.945>or <00:34:31.085>to, <00:34:31.225>uh, <00:34:31.365>any <00:34:31.505>type <00:34:31.645>of <00:34:31.785>plan

814
00:34:33.565 --> 00:34:34.925
<00:34:33.565>that <00:34:33.809>you're <00:34:34.054>conducting <00:34:34.299>at <00:34:34.544>the <00:34:34.789>moment.

815
00:34:35.105 --> 00:34:37.725
<00:34:35.105>And <00:34:35.260>as <00:34:35.416>Ivana <00:34:35.571>said, <00:34:35.727>if <00:34:35.882>you <00:34:36.038>don't <00:34:36.193>trust <00:34:36.349>us, <00:34:36.505>talk

816
00:34:37.725 --> 00:34:41.045
<00:34:37.725>to <00:34:37.864>your <00:34:38.005>developers <00:34:38.145>and <00:34:38.284>you'll <00:34:38.424>see <00:34:38.565>that, <00:34:38.705>that <00:34:38.844>the, <00:34:38.985>the, <00:34:39.125>the,

817
00:34:41.185 --> 00:34:43.885
<00:34:41.185>the <00:34:41.324>data <00:34:41.465>kind <00:34:41.605>of <00:34:41.745>overlaps <00:34:41.884>because <00:34:42.025>the <00:34:42.165>data <00:34:42.304>is <00:34:42.445>so <00:34:42.585>strong.

818
00:34:43.885 --> 00:34:46.045
<00:34:43.885>Like <00:34:44.118>every, <00:34:44.351>every <00:34:44.585>question <00:34:44.818>we <00:34:45.051>ask <00:34:45.285>it,

819
00:34:46.145 --> 00:34:48.445
<00:34:46.145>it <00:34:46.425>has <00:34:46.705>the <00:34:46.985>output <00:34:47.264>of <00:34:47.545>60%.

820
00:34:48.985 --> 00:34:51.965
<00:34:48.985>So <00:34:49.112>you <00:34:49.239>have <00:34:49.366>to <00:34:49.494>listen <00:34:49.621>to <00:34:49.748>the <00:34:49.875>data <00:34:50.003>and <00:34:50.130>to <00:34:50.257>the <00:34:50.385>numbers

821
00:34:52.145 --> 00:34:55.205
<00:34:52.145>and <00:34:52.261>then <00:34:52.378>test <00:34:52.495>them <00:34:52.611>in <00:34:52.728>a <00:34:52.844>real, <00:34:52.961>uh, <00:34:53.078>in <00:34:53.195>a, <00:34:53.311>in <00:34:53.428>a <00:34:53.545>reality

822
00:34:55.265 --> 00:34:57.805
<00:34:55.264>of <00:34:55.420>course, <00:34:55.576>to <00:34:55.731>get <00:34:55.887>the <00:34:56.042>verification, <00:34:56.198>the <00:34:56.353>validation <00:34:56.509>of <00:34:56.665>it.

823
00:34:58.385 --> 00:34:59.965
<00:34:58.385>And <00:34:58.665>I <00:34:58.945>believe <00:34:59.225>that's <00:34:59.505>the <00:34:59.785>problem

824
00:35:00.395 --> 00:35:03.325
<00:35:00.395>that <00:35:00.570>also <00:35:00.745>you <00:35:00.920>already <00:35:01.095>noticed <00:35:01.270>that, <00:35:01.445>uh, <00:35:01.620>uh, <00:35:01.795>uh,

825
00:35:03.445 --> 00:35:05.885
<00:35:03.445>B2B <00:35:03.725>audience <00:35:04.005>never <00:35:04.285>talks <00:35:04.565>to <00:35:04.845>developers.

826
00:35:05.955 --> 00:35:08.045
<00:35:05.955>They, <00:35:06.188>they <00:35:06.421>kind <00:35:06.654>of <00:35:06.888>afraid <00:35:07.121>of <00:35:07.355>them.

827
00:35:08.105 --> 00:35:09.685
<00:35:08.105>We <00:35:08.385>don't <00:35:08.665>speak <00:35:08.945>the <00:35:09.225>same <00:35:09.505>language.

828
00:35:09.755 --> 00:35:12.525
<00:35:09.755>It's <00:35:09.955>not <00:35:10.155>that <00:35:10.355>we <00:35:10.555>are <00:35:10.755>having <00:35:10.955>different <00:35:11.155>protocols,

829
00:35:12.585 --> 00:35:16.045
<00:35:12.585>we <00:35:12.712>talk <00:35:12.839>the <00:35:12.966>same, <00:35:13.094>uh, <00:35:13.221>in <00:35:13.348>the <00:35:13.475>language <00:35:13.603>in <00:35:13.730>the <00:35:13.857>same <00:35:13.985>way.

830
00:35:16.145 --> 00:35:18.605
<00:35:16.145>So, <00:35:16.320>um, <00:35:16.495>just <00:35:16.670>get <00:35:16.845>out <00:35:17.020>of <00:35:17.195>the <00:35:17.370>comfort <00:35:17.545>zone

831
00:35:18.605 --> 00:35:20.325
<00:35:18.605>and <00:35:18.955>try, <00:35:19.305>try <00:35:19.655>something <00:35:20.005>new.

832
00:35:20.905 --> 00:35:23.125
<00:35:20.905>And <00:35:21.080>I, <00:35:21.255>I'm <00:35:21.430>sure <00:35:21.605>there <00:35:21.780>will <00:35:21.955>be <00:35:22.130>the <00:35:22.305>feedback

833
00:35:23.235 --> 00:35:27.085
<00:35:23.235>that <00:35:23.410>will <00:35:23.585>encourage <00:35:23.760>you <00:35:23.935>to <00:35:24.110>there <00:35:24.285>even <00:35:24.460>more <00:35:24.635>gradually.

834
00:35:27.265 --> 00:35:28.405
<00:35:27.265>You <00:35:27.521>don't <00:35:27.778>have <00:35:28.034>to, <00:35:28.291>uh,

835
00:35:28.545 --> 00:35:33.525
<00:35:28.545>invent <00:35:28.700>the <00:35:28.856>hot <00:35:29.011>water <00:35:29.167>at <00:35:29.322>once. <00:35:29.478>It <00:35:29.633>was <00:35:29.789>a <00:35:29.945>really

836
00:35:33.885 --> 00:35:36.485
<00:35:33.885>Pleasure <00:35:34.012>to <00:35:34.139>have <00:35:34.266>you <00:35:34.394>all <00:35:34.521>in <00:35:34.648>my <00:35:34.775>fir <00:35:34.903>in <00:35:35.030>the <00:35:35.157>first <00:35:35.285>episode

837
00:35:36.485 --> 00:35:38.085
<00:35:36.485>of <00:35:36.835>a <00:35:37.185>cappuccino <00:35:37.535>with <00:35:37.885>hr.

838
00:35:38.145 --> 00:35:40.645
<00:35:38.145>It <00:35:38.285>was <00:35:38.425>great <00:35:38.565>fun <00:35:38.705>for <00:35:38.845>me. <00:35:38.985>So <00:35:39.125>thank <00:35:39.265>you <00:35:39.405>very <00:35:39.545>much.

839
00:35:40.825 --> 00:35:43.045
<00:35:40.825>Uh, <00:35:41.174>final <00:35:41.524>question <00:35:41.875>to <00:35:42.225>Ivana,

840
00:35:43.045 --> 00:35:46.125
<00:35:43.045>because <00:35:43.220>I <00:35:43.395>mean, <00:35:43.570>if <00:35:43.745>somebody's <00:35:43.920>interested <00:35:44.095>in <00:35:44.270>getting <00:35:44.445>the

841
00:35:46.125 --> 00:35:49.525
<00:35:46.125>results <00:35:46.252>of <00:35:46.379>the <00:35:46.506>study <00:35:46.634>in <00:35:46.761>more <00:35:46.888>details, <00:35:47.015>what <00:35:47.143>are <00:35:47.270>the <00:35:47.397>ways <00:35:47.525>to

842
00:35:50.115 --> 00:35:52.685
<00:35:50.115>grab <00:35:50.290>the <00:35:50.464>piece, <00:35:50.640>the <00:35:50.814>pieces <00:35:50.990>that <00:35:51.165>we <00:35:51.339>have <00:35:51.515>produced?

843
00:35:53.105 --> 00:35:54.205
<00:35:53.105>What's <00:35:53.435>the <00:35:53.765>easiest <00:35:54.095>way?

844
00:35:55.345 --> 00:35:59.805
<00:35:55.345>So, <00:35:55.472>um, <00:35:55.599>the <00:35:55.726>easiest <00:35:55.854>way <00:35:55.981>is, <00:35:56.108>uh, <00:35:56.235>we'll <00:35:56.363>actually <00:35:56.490>add <00:35:56.617>a <00:35:56.745>link.

845
00:35:59.985 --> 00:36:03.565
<00:35:59.985>So <00:36:00.112>if <00:36:00.239>you're <00:36:00.366>listening <00:36:00.494>on <00:36:00.621>audio, <00:36:00.748>we <00:36:00.875>will <00:36:01.003>have <00:36:01.130>the, <00:36:01.257>um, <00:36:01.385>link

846
00:36:03.565 --> 00:36:06.405
<00:36:03.565>of <00:36:03.765>the <00:36:03.965>survey <00:36:04.165>in <00:36:04.365>the <00:36:04.565>description <00:36:04.765>down <00:36:04.965>below.

847
00:36:06.825 --> 00:36:08.605
<00:36:06.825>Um, <00:36:07.105>if <00:36:07.384>you're <00:36:07.665>watching <00:36:07.944>on <00:36:08.225>video,

848
00:36:08.855 --> 00:36:11.325
<00:36:08.855>we'll <00:36:09.055>actually <00:36:09.255>blend <00:36:09.455>in <00:36:09.655>a <00:36:09.855>QR <00:36:10.055>code <00:36:10.255>so

849
00:36:11.325 --> 00:36:15.245
<00:36:11.325>that <00:36:11.480>you <00:36:11.636>can <00:36:11.791>easily <00:36:11.947>scan <00:36:12.102>with <00:36:12.258>your, <00:36:12.413>um, <00:36:12.569>mobile <00:36:12.725>device.

850
00:36:15.865 --> 00:36:18.885
<00:36:15.865>And <00:36:16.004>um, <00:36:16.145>if <00:36:16.285>you're <00:36:16.424>looking <00:36:16.564>to <00:36:16.705>just <00:36:16.845>browse <00:36:16.984>around <00:36:17.125>a <00:36:17.265>bit,

851
00:36:18.905 --> 00:36:22.005
<00:36:18.905>you'll <00:36:19.105>see <00:36:19.305>our <00:36:19.505>website, <00:36:19.705>um, <00:36:19.905>also <00:36:20.105>in <00:36:20.305>video

852
00:36:22.905 --> 00:36:24.045
<00:36:22.905>stream <00:36:23.418>down <00:36:23.931>below.

853
00:36:25.035 --> 00:36:27.085
<00:36:25.035>Yeah, <00:36:25.210>thank <00:36:25.384>you <00:36:25.560>very <00:36:25.734>much <00:36:25.910>for <00:36:26.085>being <00:36:26.259>my <00:36:26.435>guests.

854
00:36:27.305 --> 00:36:29.885
<00:36:27.305>It <00:36:27.444>was <00:36:27.585>fun <00:36:27.725>with <00:36:27.865>you <00:36:28.004>and <00:36:28.145>I <00:36:28.285>really <00:36:28.424>enjoyed <00:36:28.565>this <00:36:28.705>session

855
00:36:30.185 --> 00:36:32.245
<00:36:30.185>and <00:36:30.360>I <00:36:30.535>just <00:36:30.710>want <00:36:30.884>to <00:36:31.060>announce <00:36:31.235>the <00:36:31.410>next <00:36:31.585>one.

856
00:36:32.365 --> 00:36:34.365
<00:36:32.365>I <00:36:32.564>think <00:36:32.765>the <00:36:32.964>next <00:36:33.165>one <00:36:33.365>is <00:36:33.564>already <00:36:33.765>planned

857
00:36:34.505 --> 00:36:37.765
<00:36:34.505>and <00:36:34.680>it <00:36:34.855>will <00:36:35.030>be <00:36:35.205>fun <00:36:35.380>ness <00:36:35.555>from <00:36:35.730>Business <00:36:35.905>Insider.

858
00:36:37.825 --> 00:36:41.325
<00:36:37.825>And <00:36:37.964>so <00:36:38.105>please <00:36:38.245>stay <00:36:38.384>tuned <00:36:38.524>and <00:36:38.665>have <00:36:38.805>a <00:36:38.944>nice <00:36:39.085>remaining <00:36:39.225>day.

859
00:36:41.345 --> 00:36:43.965
<00:36:41.345>And <00:36:41.484>I <00:36:41.625>hope <00:36:41.765>you <00:36:41.904>enjoyed <00:36:42.044>this <00:36:42.185>episode. <00:36:42.325>Thank <00:36:42.464>you <00:36:42.605>so <00:36:42.745>much.

860
00:36:45.055 --> 00:36:46.965
<00:36:45.055>Thank <00:36:45.754>you <00:36:46.455>Cappuccino

861
00:36:46.965 --> 00:36:48.685
<00:36:46.965>With <00:36:47.315>All <00:36:47.665>of <00:36:48.015>you <00:36:48.365>have.