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<00:01:56.164>Like, <00:01:56.320>as <00:01:56.476>the, <00:01:56.631>the <00:01:56.787>rhetoric <00:01:56.942>goes, <00:01:57.098>uh, <00:01:57.253>you <00:01:57.409>can <00:01:57.565>learn,

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<00:01:59.505>react <00:01:59.704>in <00:01:59.904>a <00:02:00.104>day <00:02:00.304>or <00:02:00.503>whatever,

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<00:02:08.794>and, <00:02:09.028>um, <00:02:09.261>you <00:02:09.494>can <00:02:09.728>specialize <00:02:09.961>in <00:02:10.195>them.

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<00:02:18.535>because <00:02:18.768>I <00:02:19.001>don't <00:02:19.234>think <00:02:19.468>the <00:02:19.701>frameworks <00:02:19.935>themselves

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<00:02:30.235>Um, <00:02:30.390>like <00:02:30.546>felt <00:02:30.701>just <00:02:30.857>announced <00:02:31.012>this <00:02:31.168>thing <00:02:31.323>about <00:02:31.479>runes <00:02:31.635>since

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<00:02:59.170>because, <00:02:59.325>uh, <00:02:59.481>the <00:02:59.636>browser <00:02:59.792>code <00:02:59.947>bases <00:03:00.103>are, <00:03:00.258>uh, <00:03:00.414>very <00:03:00.570>old

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<00:03:06.555>It's <00:03:06.671>just <00:03:06.788>like, <00:03:06.905>uh, <00:03:07.021>a <00:03:07.138>lot <00:03:07.255>of, <00:03:07.371>a <00:03:07.488>lot <00:03:07.605>of <00:03:07.721>c <00:03:07.838>plus <00:03:07.955>plus

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<00:03:14.225>uh, <00:03:14.882>hot <00:03:15.539>newness.

79
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<00:03:15.685>Like, <00:03:15.918>like <00:03:16.151>the <00:03:16.385>JavaScript <00:03:16.618>landscape <00:03:16.851>forever <00:03:17.085>changing.

80
00:03:19.265 --> 00:03:20.765
<00:03:19.265>It <00:03:19.457>is <00:03:19.650>weird, <00:03:19.843>isn't <00:03:20.036>it? <00:03:20.229>Like <00:03:20.422>I <00:03:20.614>found

81
00:03:20.765 --> 00:03:22.925
<00:03:20.765>that <00:03:20.964>in <00:03:21.165>the <00:03:21.364>later <00:03:21.565>years, <00:03:21.765>see, <00:03:21.964>uh, <00:03:22.165>JavaScript,

82
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<00:03:23.155>what <00:03:23.310>came <00:03:23.466>into <00:03:23.621>the <00:03:23.777>language <00:03:23.932>was <00:03:24.088>a <00:03:24.243>lot <00:03:24.399>of <00:03:24.555>stuff

83
00:03:25.925 --> 00:03:27.045
<00:03:25.925>borrowed <00:03:26.261>from <00:03:26.597>other <00:03:26.933>languages,

84
00:03:27.045 --> 00:03:28.485
<00:03:27.045>like <00:03:27.304>from <00:03:27.563>Python <00:03:27.822>and <00:03:28.081>from <00:03:28.341>Ruby.

85
00:03:29.145 --> 00:03:31.005
<00:03:29.145>And <00:03:29.378>like, <00:03:29.611>then <00:03:29.845>there's <00:03:30.078>things <00:03:30.311>like <00:03:30.545>symbols,

86
00:03:31.005 --> 00:03:32.645
<00:03:31.005>which <00:03:31.144>I <00:03:31.285>still <00:03:31.424>don't <00:03:31.565>know <00:03:31.704>what <00:03:31.845>I <00:03:31.984>should <00:03:32.125>use <00:03:32.265>them <00:03:32.405>for.

87
00:03:33.065 --> 00:03:35.805
<00:03:33.065>And <00:03:33.192>like, <00:03:33.319>it, <00:03:33.446>it, <00:03:33.574>it <00:03:33.701>feels <00:03:33.828>like <00:03:33.955>that <00:03:34.083>there <00:03:34.210>was, <00:03:34.337>uh, <00:03:34.465>uh,

88
00:03:35.805 --> 00:03:38.925
<00:03:35.805>that <00:03:35.921>there <00:03:36.038>was <00:03:36.155>a, <00:03:36.271>a <00:03:36.388>heyday <00:03:36.505>when <00:03:36.621>like <00:03:36.738>E <00:03:36.855>six <00:03:36.971>finally <00:03:37.088>came <00:03:37.205>out

89
00:03:38.925 --> 00:03:41.165
<00:03:38.925>and <00:03:39.100>we <00:03:39.275>finally <00:03:39.450>said <00:03:39.625>like, <00:03:39.800>okay, <00:03:39.975>let's, <00:03:40.150>let's, <00:03:40.325>let's,

90
00:03:41.215 --> 00:03:43.645
<00:03:41.215>let's <00:03:41.355>get <00:03:41.495>the <00:03:41.635>whole <00:03:41.775>mess <00:03:41.915>that <00:03:42.055>we <00:03:42.195>had <00:03:42.335>with <00:03:42.475>Action <00:03:42.615>Script

91
00:03:43.705 --> 00:03:45.125
<00:03:43.704>and <00:03:43.960>Js <00:03:44.216>script <00:03:44.471>and <00:03:44.727>Live <00:03:44.983>Script

92
00:03:45.145 --> 00:03:46.885
<00:03:45.145>and <00:03:45.345>all <00:03:45.545>these <00:03:45.745>things <00:03:45.945>out <00:03:46.145>of <00:03:46.345>the <00:03:46.545>way,

93
00:03:46.885 --> 00:03:49.165
<00:03:46.885>it <00:03:47.040>standardized <00:03:47.196>it <00:03:47.351>on <00:03:47.507>ES <00:03:47.662>five <00:03:47.818>and <00:03:47.973>then <00:03:48.129>E <00:03:48.285>six,

94
00:03:49.545 --> 00:03:52.525
<00:03:49.545>and <00:03:49.700>then <00:03:49.856>it <00:03:50.011>started <00:03:50.167>to <00:03:50.322>like, <00:03:50.478>uh, <00:03:50.633>became <00:03:50.789>synthetic <00:03:50.945>sugar

95
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<00:03:52.665>and <00:03:52.935>like <00:03:53.204>things <00:03:53.475>that <00:03:53.745>come <00:03:54.015>in.

96
00:03:54.285 --> 00:03:55.445
<00:03:54.285>I <00:03:54.459>mean, <00:03:54.632>there <00:03:54.807>was <00:03:54.981>a <00:03:55.155>single <00:03:55.329>weight

97
00:03:55.445 --> 00:03:57.405
<00:03:55.445>that <00:03:55.795>actually <00:03:56.144>became <00:03:56.495>a <00:03:56.845>paradigm

98
00:03:57.405 --> 00:03:59.325
<00:03:57.405>that <00:03:57.685>actually <00:03:57.965>was <00:03:58.245>not <00:03:58.525>in <00:03:58.805>JavaScript

99
00:03:59.325 --> 00:04:00.485
<00:03:59.325>before <00:03:59.585>it <00:03:59.847>became <00:04:00.108>a <00:04:00.369>thing.

100
00:04:01.105 --> 00:04:03.405
<00:04:01.105>And, <00:04:01.280>uh, <00:04:01.454>it <00:04:01.630>it, <00:04:01.804>it <00:04:01.980>feels <00:04:02.155>like <00:04:02.329>that <00:04:02.505>the,

101
00:04:03.865 --> 00:04:05.965
<00:04:03.865>we <00:04:04.065>learned <00:04:04.265>a <00:04:04.465>lot <00:04:04.665>from <00:04:04.865>frameworks <00:04:05.065>back <00:04:05.265>then,

102
00:04:05.965 --> 00:04:07.325
<00:04:05.965>especially <00:04:06.271>in <00:04:06.577>the <00:04:06.882>Dom <00:04:07.189>space.

103
00:04:07.325 --> 00:04:09.805
<00:04:07.325>We <00:04:07.452>learned <00:04:07.579>a <00:04:07.706>lot <00:04:07.834>from <00:04:07.961>Jake <00:04:08.088>Query, <00:04:08.215>which <00:04:08.343>we <00:04:08.470>then <00:04:08.597>became, <00:04:08.725>uh,

104
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<00:04:09.885>a <00:04:10.406>query <00:04:10.928>selector.

105
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<00:04:11.425>And <00:04:11.552>we, <00:04:11.679>we, <00:04:11.806>we, <00:04:11.934>we, <00:04:12.061>we, <00:04:12.188>we <00:04:12.315>learned <00:04:12.443>that <00:04:12.570>it's, <00:04:12.697>it's <00:04:12.825>not

106
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<00:04:15.105>as <00:04:15.221>simple <00:04:15.338>as <00:04:15.454>we <00:04:15.571>think <00:04:15.688>it <00:04:15.804>is <00:04:15.921>to <00:04:16.038>navigate <00:04:16.154>the <00:04:16.271>dorm <00:04:16.388>in, <00:04:16.505>in,

107
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<00:04:17.945>uh, <00:04:18.404>in <00:04:18.863>Manila.

108
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<00:04:19.305>And <00:04:19.460>then <00:04:19.616>we <00:04:19.771>actually <00:04:19.927>made <00:04:20.082>that <00:04:20.238>easier <00:04:20.393>with <00:04:20.549>like, <00:04:20.704>uh,

109
00:04:22.165 --> 00:04:25.485
<00:04:22.165>we <00:04:22.340>also <00:04:22.515>have <00:04:22.690>like <00:04:22.865>parent <00:04:23.040>and <00:04:23.215>neighbor <00:04:23.390>selectors <00:04:23.565>now.

110
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<00:04:25.485>Yeah. <00:04:25.640>Things <00:04:25.796>that <00:04:25.951>we <00:04:26.107>learned <00:04:26.262>from <00:04:26.418>Jake <00:04:26.573>Query <00:04:26.729>back <00:04:26.885>then.

111
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<00:04:27.985>But, <00:04:28.101>uh, <00:04:28.218>I <00:04:28.335>felt <00:04:28.451>the <00:04:28.568>same <00:04:28.685>when, <00:04:28.801>uh, <00:04:28.918>when <00:04:29.035>I, <00:04:29.151>when <00:04:29.268>I <00:04:29.385>worked

112
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<00:04:31.165>with <00:04:31.340>Ajax <00:04:31.515>and <00:04:31.690>back <00:04:31.865>then <00:04:32.040>and <00:04:32.215>Ajax <00:04:32.390>came <00:04:32.565>out

113
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<00:04:33.565>and <00:04:33.705>all <00:04:33.844>of <00:04:33.985>a <00:04:34.125>sudden <00:04:34.265>we <00:04:34.405>had <00:04:34.545>like <00:04:34.685>152 <00:04:34.825>different <00:04:34.965>JavaScript

114
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<00:04:36.325>libraries <00:04:36.667>that <00:04:37.009>made <00:04:37.351>Ajax <00:04:37.693>easier.

115
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<00:04:38.545>And <00:04:38.815>then <00:04:39.085>like <00:04:39.355>two <00:04:39.625>years <00:04:39.895>later,

116
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<00:04:40.055>there <00:04:40.288>was <00:04:40.521>just <00:04:40.755>one <00:04:40.988>left <00:04:41.221>Jake <00:04:41.455>Query,

117
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<00:04:42.425>and <00:04:42.565>the <00:04:42.705>others <00:04:42.845>were <00:04:42.985>all <00:04:43.125>forgotten <00:04:43.265>mood <00:04:43.405>tools <00:04:43.545>maybe <00:04:43.685>a <00:04:43.825>bit

118
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<00:04:45.445>more <00:04:45.631>and <00:04:45.817>like <00:04:46.003>these <00:04:46.189>kind <00:04:46.375>of <00:04:46.561>things,

119
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<00:04:46.985>but <00:04:47.218>it <00:04:47.451>felt <00:04:47.685>the <00:04:47.918>same <00:04:48.151>back <00:04:48.385>then.

120
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<00:04:48.585>At <00:04:48.818>least <00:04:49.051>they <00:04:49.284>just <00:04:49.518>made <00:04:49.751>JavaScript <00:04:49.984>easier.

121
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<00:04:50.665>But <00:04:50.840>now <00:04:51.015>it <00:04:51.190>seems <00:04:51.365>like <00:04:51.540>all <00:04:51.715>these <00:04:51.890>frameworks <00:04:52.065>try

122
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<00:04:52.685>to <00:04:52.918>reinvent <00:04:53.151>the <00:04:53.385>web <00:04:53.618>as <00:04:53.851>it <00:04:54.085>is,

123
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<00:04:54.515>whereas <00:04:54.794>browsers <00:04:55.075>basically <00:04:55.354>bend <00:04:55.635>over <00:04:55.914>backwards

124
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<00:04:57.345>to <00:04:57.578>make <00:04:57.811>the <00:04:58.045>web <00:04:58.278>perform <00:04:58.511>really <00:04:58.745>well,

125
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<00:04:59.265>no <00:04:59.454>matter <00:04:59.643>what <00:04:59.832>you <00:05:00.020>throw <00:05:00.210>at <00:05:00.399>it.

126
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<00:05:01.145>And, <00:05:01.284>uh, <00:05:01.424>so <00:05:01.565>we, <00:05:01.705>we, <00:05:01.844>we, <00:05:01.984>I <00:05:02.125>I <00:05:02.265>kind <00:05:02.405>of <00:05:02.544>understand

127
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<00:05:04.365>that <00:05:04.520>the <00:05:04.676>investment <00:05:04.831>that <00:05:04.987>you <00:05:05.142>think, <00:05:05.298>like <00:05:05.453>you <00:05:05.609>don't <00:05:05.765>want

128
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<00:05:07.085>to <00:05:07.284>get <00:05:07.484>locked <00:05:07.685>into <00:05:07.885>one <00:05:08.085>of <00:05:08.284>those <00:05:08.484>that

129
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<00:05:09.665>you <00:05:09.898>might <00:05:10.131>bet <00:05:10.365>on <00:05:10.598>the <00:05:10.831>wrong <00:05:11.065>framework

130
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<00:05:11.645>that <00:05:11.844>then <00:05:12.044>goes <00:05:12.245>away <00:05:12.445>half <00:05:12.645>a <00:05:12.844>year <00:05:13.044>later.

131
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<00:05:13.505>And <00:05:13.705>you <00:05:13.905>stand <00:05:14.105>there <00:05:14.305>like <00:05:14.505>the, <00:05:14.705>the <00:05:14.905>Flash

132
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<00:05:16.265>or, <00:05:16.544>uh, <00:05:16.825>Silverlight <00:05:17.104>experts <00:05:17.385>from <00:05:17.664>yonder

133
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<00:05:19.425>and <00:05:19.762>basically <00:05:20.100>like, <00:05:20.437>okay, <00:05:20.775>what,

134
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<00:05:20.925>what <00:05:21.089>do <00:05:21.254>I <00:05:21.418>do <00:05:21.583>with <00:05:21.747>this <00:05:21.912>knowledge <00:05:22.077>now?

135
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<00:05:22.265>So <00:05:22.465>the, <00:05:22.664>something <00:05:22.865>that's <00:05:23.065>standardized <00:05:23.265>takes <00:05:23.465>more <00:05:23.664>time,

136
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<00:05:25.225>but <00:05:25.365>it <00:05:25.505>seems <00:05:25.645>like <00:05:25.785>it's <00:05:25.925>a <00:05:26.065>longer <00:05:26.205>investment <00:05:26.345>for <00:05:26.485>the <00:05:26.625>future.

137
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<00:05:28.745>Uh, <00:05:28.900>so <00:05:29.056>it, <00:05:29.211>it's <00:05:29.367>interesting <00:05:29.522>to <00:05:29.678>see <00:05:29.833>that <00:05:29.989>the, <00:05:30.145>these,

138
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<00:05:32.175>these <00:05:32.455>paradigms <00:05:32.735>always <00:05:33.015>come <00:05:33.295>and <00:05:33.575>go,

139
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<00:05:34.425>and <00:05:34.565>a <00:05:34.705>lot <00:05:34.845>of <00:05:34.985>times <00:05:35.125>they <00:05:35.265>come <00:05:35.405>from <00:05:35.545>a <00:05:35.685>different <00:05:35.825>environment

140
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<00:05:36.645>than <00:05:36.752>the <00:05:36.860>web, <00:05:36.968>and <00:05:37.075>they <00:05:37.183>try <00:05:37.291>to <00:05:37.398>force <00:05:37.506>to <00:05:37.614>be <00:05:37.721>forced <00:05:37.829>on <00:05:37.937>the <00:05:38.044>web,

141
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<00:05:40.705>and <00:05:40.967>it <00:05:41.230>seems <00:05:41.493>never <00:05:41.756>to <00:05:42.019>work.

142
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<00:05:42.345>It <00:05:42.583>seems <00:05:42.822>like <00:05:43.060>always <00:05:43.299>trying

143
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<00:05:43.405>to <00:05:43.604>pay <00:05:43.804>catch <00:05:44.005>up <00:05:44.205>with <00:05:44.405>the <00:05:44.604>other <00:05:44.804>systems.

144
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<00:05:46.165>Yeah. <00:05:46.340>Yeah. <00:05:46.515>I <00:05:46.690>think <00:05:46.865>there's, <00:05:47.040>there's <00:05:47.215>probably <00:05:47.390>a <00:05:47.565>bit

145
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<00:05:49.215>of <00:05:49.448>a <00:05:49.681>kind <00:05:49.915>of <00:05:50.148>mental <00:05:50.381>divide <00:05:50.615>between,

146
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<00:05:51.955>um, <00:05:52.274>some <00:05:52.594>of <00:05:52.913>the <00:05:53.233>frameworks.

147
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<00:05:53.375>And <00:05:53.543>I <00:05:53.711>do <00:05:53.879>think <00:05:54.047>some <00:05:54.215>of <00:05:54.383>them,

148
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<00:05:54.875>and <00:05:55.002>I <00:05:55.129>would <00:05:55.256>include <00:05:55.384>react <00:05:55.511>in <00:05:55.638>this, <00:05:55.765>uh, <00:05:55.893>kind <00:05:56.020>of <00:05:56.147>see, <00:05:56.275>uh,

149
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<00:06:00.075>like <00:06:00.336>Dom <00:06:00.597>as <00:06:00.858>the <00:06:01.119>wrong <00:06:01.380>model

150
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<00:06:02.225>and, <00:06:02.380>um, <00:06:02.536>their, <00:06:02.691>their <00:06:02.847>attempt <00:06:03.002>is <00:06:03.158>to, <00:06:03.313>is <00:06:03.469>to <00:06:03.625>try

151
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<00:06:06.205>and <00:06:06.520>fit <00:06:06.835>their <00:06:07.150>model <00:06:07.465>into,

152
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<00:06:08.435>into <00:06:08.635>the <00:06:08.835>existing <00:06:09.035>model <00:06:09.235>of <00:06:09.435>the <00:06:09.635>web, <00:06:09.835>right?

153
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<00:06:10.125>Rather <00:06:10.475>than, <00:06:10.825>um, <00:06:11.175>extending <00:06:11.525>it.

154
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<00:06:12.985>Um, <00:06:13.265>it <00:06:13.545>almost, <00:06:13.825>uh, <00:06:14.105>replaces <00:06:14.385>it.

155
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<00:06:16.605>And <00:06:16.860>to <00:06:17.116>me <00:06:17.371>that's <00:06:17.627>a <00:06:17.883>misstep.

156
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<00:06:18.285>Um, <00:06:18.485>but <00:06:18.685>I <00:06:18.885>think <00:06:19.085>more <00:06:19.285>than <00:06:19.485>that <00:06:19.685>is,

157
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<00:06:23.225>I <00:06:23.400>think <00:06:23.575>you <00:06:23.750>pointed <00:06:23.925>out <00:06:24.100>some, <00:06:24.275>some <00:06:24.450>interesting <00:06:24.625>bits

158
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<00:06:25.465>around <00:06:25.744>like <00:06:26.025>jQuery <00:06:26.304>where, <00:06:26.585>um, <00:06:26.864>things

159
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<00:06:28.905>that <00:06:29.060>do <00:06:29.216>extend <00:06:29.371>can <00:06:29.527>kind <00:06:29.682>of <00:06:29.838>be <00:06:29.993>more <00:06:30.149>easily, <00:06:30.304>um,

160
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<00:06:34.165>folded <00:06:34.543>into <00:06:34.921>the <00:06:35.299>platform.

161
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<00:06:36.005>Uh, <00:06:36.180>so <00:06:36.355>like <00:06:36.530>jQuery <00:06:36.705>selector <00:06:36.880>becomes <00:06:37.055>query <00:06:37.230>selector <00:06:37.405>all,

162
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<00:06:39.765>or <00:06:39.892>Ajax, <00:06:40.019>the <00:06:40.146>paradigm <00:06:40.274>of <00:06:40.401>Ajax <00:06:40.528>can <00:06:40.655>kind <00:06:40.783>of <00:06:40.910>fall <00:06:41.037>into <00:06:41.164>fetch.

163
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<00:06:44.585>I <00:06:44.784>think <00:06:44.984>those <00:06:45.185>things, <00:06:45.385>um, <00:06:45.585>they, <00:06:45.784>they <00:06:45.984>seek

164
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<00:06:48.855>to <00:06:49.191>improve <00:06:49.527>the <00:06:49.863>web,

165
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<00:06:50.205>like <00:06:50.380>they <00:06:50.555>introduce <00:06:50.729>new <00:06:50.905>ergonomics <00:06:51.080>on <00:06:51.255>the <00:06:51.430>same <00:06:51.604>underlying

166
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<00:06:53.605>kind <00:06:54.095>of <00:06:54.586>architecture.

167
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<00:06:55.475>Um, <00:06:55.650>but <00:06:55.825>it's, <00:06:56.000>but <00:06:56.175>it's <00:06:56.350>a, <00:06:56.525>a <00:06:56.700>net <00:06:56.875>improvement.

168
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<00:06:58.215>It <00:06:58.423>ends <00:06:58.632>in <00:06:58.841>a <00:06:59.050>net <00:06:59.259>improvement.

169
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<00:07:00.025>Those <00:07:00.200>things <00:07:00.375>have <00:07:00.549>to <00:07:00.724>be <00:07:00.900>modest <00:07:01.075>improvements <00:07:01.250>though, <00:07:01.424>right?

170
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<00:07:02.675>We, <00:07:02.791>we <00:07:02.908>need <00:07:03.025>to <00:07:03.141>solve <00:07:03.258>the, <00:07:03.375>the <00:07:03.491>web <00:07:03.608>one <00:07:03.725>step <00:07:03.841>at <00:07:03.958>a <00:07:04.075>time

171
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<00:07:05.295>because <00:07:05.422>it <00:07:05.549>does <00:07:05.676>take <00:07:05.804>so <00:07:05.931>long, <00:07:06.058>because <00:07:06.185>there <00:07:06.313>is <00:07:06.440>so <00:07:06.567>much <00:07:06.695>rigor

172
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<00:07:07.755>and <00:07:08.250>complexity <00:07:08.745>involved.

173
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<00:07:08.985>There <00:07:09.185>have <00:07:09.385>been <00:07:09.585>discussions <00:07:09.785>about <00:07:09.985>like <00:07:10.185>incorporating <00:07:10.385>JSX

174
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<00:07:12.405>into, <00:07:12.638>into <00:07:12.871>the <00:07:13.104>DM <00:07:13.338>or <00:07:13.571>into <00:07:13.804>JavaScript.

175
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<00:07:15.455>I <00:07:15.582>mean, <00:07:15.709>E <00:07:15.836>four <00:07:15.964>X <00:07:16.091>was <00:07:16.218>the <00:07:16.345>thing <00:07:16.473>that, <00:07:16.600>uh, <00:07:16.727>the <00:07:16.854>specification

176
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<00:07:18.775>that <00:07:18.974>existed <00:07:19.174>before <00:07:19.375>ES <00:07:19.575>five, <00:07:19.775>uh, <00:07:19.974>which <00:07:20.174>looked

177
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<00:07:22.035>to <00:07:22.385>incorporate <00:07:22.735>XML <00:07:23.085>into, <00:07:23.435>uh,

178
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<00:07:24.435>as <00:07:24.715>like <00:07:24.995>a <00:07:25.275>native <00:07:25.555>language <00:07:25.835>feature.

179
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<00:07:26.795>But <00:07:27.078>it's <00:07:27.362>just <00:07:27.645>so <00:07:27.929>complex

180
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<00:07:28.475>and <00:07:28.650>there's <00:07:28.825>so <00:07:29.000>much, <00:07:29.175>um, <00:07:29.350>to <00:07:29.525>discuss <00:07:29.700>and <00:07:29.875>decide

181
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<00:07:33.475>and <00:07:33.630>like <00:07:33.786>so <00:07:33.941>many <00:07:34.097>stakeholders <00:07:34.252>involved <00:07:34.408>that <00:07:34.563>it <00:07:34.719>almost <00:07:34.875>is,

182
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<00:07:38.355>um, <00:07:38.530>doomed <00:07:38.705>never <00:07:38.880>to <00:07:39.055>be <00:07:39.230>specified, <00:07:39.405>in <00:07:39.580>my <00:07:39.755>opinion.

183
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<00:07:43.355>Um, <00:07:43.495>so, <00:07:43.635>so <00:07:43.775>tools <00:07:43.915>that <00:07:44.055>make <00:07:44.195>these <00:07:44.335>rapid <00:07:44.475>departures <00:07:44.615>like <00:07:44.755>JSX,

184
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<00:07:47.835>um, <00:07:47.974>like, <00:07:48.114>like <00:07:48.255>React <00:07:48.395>have, <00:07:48.534>um, <00:07:48.674>I <00:07:48.815>think <00:07:48.955>that <00:07:49.094>they're <00:07:49.234>not,

185
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<00:07:53.105>they're <00:07:53.245>never <00:07:53.385>going <00:07:53.525>to, <00:07:53.665>um, <00:07:53.805>exist <00:07:53.945>in <00:07:54.085>earnest <00:07:54.225>in <00:07:54.365>the <00:07:54.505>platform

186
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<00:07:57.865>because <00:07:58.020>they <00:07:58.176>kind <00:07:58.331>of, <00:07:58.487>uh, <00:07:58.642>deviate <00:07:58.798>from <00:07:58.953>it <00:07:59.109>too <00:07:59.265>far.

187
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<00:08:01.065>They <00:08:01.317>step <00:08:01.569>too <00:08:01.821>far <00:08:02.073>away.

188
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<00:08:03.505>And <00:08:03.738>I <00:08:03.971>think <00:08:04.205>there's <00:08:04.438>like, <00:08:04.671>you <00:08:04.905>know,

189
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<00:08:05.245>we <00:08:05.497>should <00:08:05.749>still <00:08:06.001>have <00:08:06.253>that <00:08:06.505>space.

190
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<00:08:06.705>We <00:08:06.930>should <00:08:07.155>have <00:08:07.380>that <00:08:07.604>space <00:08:07.830>for <00:08:08.055>frameworks

191
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<00:08:08.205>to <00:08:08.637>innovate <00:08:09.068>and <00:08:09.501>experiment.

192
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<00:08:10.505>Um, <00:08:10.632>I <00:08:10.759>think <00:08:10.886>what <00:08:11.014>has <00:08:11.141>been <00:08:11.268>kind <00:08:11.395>of <00:08:11.523>concerning <00:08:11.650>though <00:08:11.777>is, <00:08:11.905>uh,

193
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<00:08:15.445>watching <00:08:15.620>the <00:08:15.795>rise <00:08:15.969>of <00:08:16.145>the <00:08:16.320>predominance <00:08:16.495>of <00:08:16.670>React, <00:08:16.844>um,

194
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<00:08:19.105>I <00:08:19.245>think <00:08:19.385>it <00:08:19.525>kind <00:08:19.665>of <00:08:19.805>came <00:08:19.945>at <00:08:20.085>a <00:08:20.225>good <00:08:20.365>time <00:08:20.505>where

195
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<00:08:21.725>we <00:08:22.005>were <00:08:22.285>stepping <00:08:22.565>away <00:08:22.845>from <00:08:23.125>jQuery,

196
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<00:08:23.405>but <00:08:23.544>we <00:08:23.684>still <00:08:23.825>had <00:08:23.965>to <00:08:24.104>find, <00:08:24.244>uh, <00:08:24.385>new <00:08:24.525>tools <00:08:24.664>to <00:08:24.804>use

197
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<00:08:27.845>to <00:08:27.985>address <00:08:28.125>some <00:08:28.265>of <00:08:28.405>the <00:08:28.545>kind <00:08:28.685>of <00:08:28.825>shortcomings <00:08:28.965>of <00:08:29.105>the <00:08:29.245>platform.

198
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<00:08:31.165>Um, <00:08:31.365>but <00:08:31.565>I <00:08:31.765>look <00:08:31.965>at <00:08:32.164>the <00:08:32.365>platform <00:08:32.565>today

199
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<00:08:33.044>and <00:08:33.245>it's <00:08:33.444>totally <00:08:33.645>different <00:08:33.844>to <00:08:34.044>the <00:08:34.245>platform <00:08:34.444>I

200
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<00:08:36.265>I <00:08:36.498>worked <00:08:36.731>on <00:08:36.965>10 <00:08:37.198>years <00:08:37.431>ago, <00:08:37.664>right?

201
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<00:08:38.945>N <00:08:39.225>none <00:08:39.505>of <00:08:39.785>the <00:08:40.065>compatibilities, <00:08:40.345>uh,

202
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<00:08:41.044>are <00:08:41.319>really <00:08:41.593>a <00:08:41.868>concern <00:08:42.143>anymore.

203
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<00:08:42.265>We <00:08:42.439>have <00:08:42.615>these <00:08:42.789>projects <00:08:42.965>like <00:08:43.140>interop, <00:08:43.314>uh, <00:08:43.490>interop <00:08:43.664>23,

204
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<00:08:45.265>interrupt <00:08:45.405>24, <00:08:45.545>that <00:08:45.685>the <00:08:45.824>browsers <00:08:45.965>are <00:08:46.105>working <00:08:46.245>on <00:08:46.385>to <00:08:46.525>make <00:08:46.665>sure

205
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<00:08:48.745>that <00:08:48.978>there <00:08:49.211>is <00:08:49.445>this <00:08:49.678>like, <00:08:49.911>cohesive <00:08:50.145>platform

206
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<00:08:50.825>that <00:08:51.050>you <00:08:51.275>can <00:08:51.500>develop <00:08:51.725>against.

207
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<00:08:52.685>Um, <00:08:52.824>and <00:08:52.964>so <00:08:53.104>the <00:08:53.244>issues <00:08:53.385>that, <00:08:53.525>uh, <00:08:53.665>frameworks <00:08:53.805>like <00:08:53.944>React, <00:08:54.084>um,

208
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<00:08:57.155>initially <00:08:57.310>sought <00:08:57.466>to <00:08:57.621>fix, <00:08:57.777>like <00:08:57.932>they <00:08:58.088>no <00:08:58.243>longer <00:08:58.399>exist, <00:08:58.555>right?

209
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<00:09:01.265>Um, <00:09:01.392>so, <00:09:01.519>so <00:09:01.646>it's <00:09:01.774>answering <00:09:01.901>a <00:09:02.028>question, <00:09:02.155>um, <00:09:02.283>from <00:09:02.410>a <00:09:02.537>decade <00:09:02.665>ago

210
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<00:09:05.085>that's <00:09:05.318>kind <00:09:05.551>of <00:09:05.785>already <00:09:06.018>been <00:09:06.251>answered, <00:09:06.485>uh,

211
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<00:09:07.065>by <00:09:07.395>the <00:09:07.725>platform <00:09:08.055>itself.

212
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<00:09:08.745>And, <00:09:08.920>and <00:09:09.095>it <00:09:09.270>hasn't <00:09:09.445>really <00:09:09.620>caught <00:09:09.795>up <00:09:09.970>with <00:09:10.145>that.

213
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<00:09:11.325>I <00:09:11.441>think, <00:09:11.558>and <00:09:11.675>that's <00:09:11.791>kind <00:09:11.908>of <00:09:12.025>the <00:09:12.141>problem <00:09:12.258>that <00:09:12.375>I <00:09:12.491>see <00:09:12.608>with <00:09:12.725>it.

214
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<00:09:14.585>You <00:09:14.760>know, <00:09:14.935>you're, <00:09:15.110>you're <00:09:15.285>learning <00:09:15.460>this <00:09:15.635>entirely <00:09:15.810>new <00:09:15.985>system

215
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<00:09:17.585>on <00:09:17.725>how <00:09:17.865>to <00:09:18.005>build <00:09:18.145>ui, <00:09:18.285>that, <00:09:18.425>that <00:09:18.565>it <00:09:18.705>doesn't <00:09:18.845>gel <00:09:18.985>with

216
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<00:09:20.995>what <00:09:21.275>exists <00:09:21.555>in <00:09:21.835>the <00:09:22.115>platform, <00:09:22.395>right?

217
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<00:09:22.845>It <00:09:23.039>doesn't <00:09:23.233>gel <00:09:23.428>with <00:09:23.622>the <00:09:23.817>dom,

218
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<00:09:24.465>but <00:09:24.698>it, <00:09:24.931>it <00:09:25.165>has <00:09:25.398>all <00:09:25.631>these <00:09:25.865>workarounds

219
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<00:09:26.515>that <00:09:26.748>it <00:09:26.981>kind <00:09:27.215>of <00:09:27.448>still <00:09:27.681>holds <00:09:27.915>onto.

220
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<00:09:28.845>I <00:09:29.000>mean, <00:09:29.156>one <00:09:29.311>of <00:09:29.467>the <00:09:29.622>little <00:09:29.778>pieces <00:09:29.933>I <00:09:30.089>picked <00:09:30.245>on,

221
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<00:09:31.545>on <00:09:31.778>the <00:09:32.011>blog <00:09:32.245>post <00:09:32.478>was <00:09:32.711>auto <00:09:32.944>focus.

222
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<00:09:34.185>Trying <00:09:34.324>to <00:09:34.464>just <00:09:34.604>manage <00:09:34.744>focus <00:09:34.885>and <00:09:35.025>react <00:09:35.165>is <00:09:35.305>like <00:09:35.444>a <00:09:35.584>pain.

223
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<00:09:37.985>Uh, <00:09:38.140>and <00:09:38.296>it <00:09:38.451>shouldn't <00:09:38.607>be <00:09:38.762>because <00:09:38.918>the <00:09:39.073>browser <00:09:39.229>actually <00:09:39.385>does

224
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<00:09:40.125>like <00:09:40.325>a <00:09:40.525>whole <00:09:40.725>load <00:09:40.925>of <00:09:41.125>work <00:09:41.325>to, <00:09:41.525>um,

225
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<00:09:43.185>manage <00:09:43.531>focus <00:09:43.877>for <00:09:44.224>you, <00:09:44.571>right?

226
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<00:09:45.105>If <00:09:45.280>you <00:09:45.455>open <00:09:45.630>a <00:09:45.805>dialogue <00:09:45.980>in <00:09:46.155>the <00:09:46.330>web <00:09:46.505>platform,

227
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<00:09:47.675>like <00:09:48.019>using <00:09:48.363>a <00:09:48.707>dialogue <00:09:49.052>element,

228
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<00:09:49.705>the <00:09:49.860>browser <00:09:50.016>will <00:09:50.171>retain <00:09:50.327>the <00:09:50.482>pointer <00:09:50.638>to <00:09:50.793>the <00:09:50.949>focus <00:09:51.105>element,

229
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<00:09:54.105>uh, <00:09:54.338>to <00:09:54.571>that <00:09:54.805>that <00:09:55.038>was <00:09:55.271>focused <00:09:55.505>on

230
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<00:09:56.085>before <00:09:56.373>the <00:09:56.661>dialogue <00:09:56.949>was <00:09:57.237>opened.

231
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<00:10:01.745>to, <00:10:01.945>to <00:10:02.145>store <00:10:02.345>this <00:10:02.545>kind <00:10:02.745>of <00:10:02.945>stuff, <00:10:03.145>um,

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<00:10:04.005>because <00:10:04.355>there's <00:10:04.705>not <00:10:05.055>really, <00:10:05.405>uh,

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<00:10:07.475>like <00:10:07.630>React <00:10:07.786>doesn't <00:10:07.941>give <00:10:08.097>you <00:10:08.252>this, <00:10:08.408>this <00:10:08.563>very <00:10:08.719>nice <00:10:08.875>way

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<00:10:11.985>to <00:10:12.185>reveal <00:10:12.385>these <00:10:12.585>parts <00:10:12.785>of <00:10:12.985>the <00:10:13.185>platform <00:10:13.385>underneath.

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<00:10:17.185>to <00:10:17.301>keep <00:10:17.418>the <00:10:17.535>state <00:10:17.651>of <00:10:17.768>the, <00:10:17.885>uh, <00:10:18.001>of <00:10:18.118>the <00:10:18.234>app <00:10:18.351>in <00:10:18.468>the <00:10:18.584>URL

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<00:10:20.945>and <00:10:21.100>basically <00:10:21.256>before <00:10:21.411>that <00:10:21.567>we, <00:10:21.722>we, <00:10:21.878>we <00:10:22.033>did <00:10:22.189>that <00:10:22.345>just

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<00:10:23.405>with <00:10:23.545>the <00:10:23.685>URL <00:10:23.824>and <00:10:23.964>now <00:10:24.105>we <00:10:24.245>have <00:10:24.385>like, <00:10:24.525>uh, <00:10:24.665>uh, <00:10:24.805>uh,

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<00:10:26.405>what <00:10:26.638>we <00:10:26.871>have <00:10:27.105>like, <00:10:27.338>um, <00:10:27.571>new <00:10:27.805>transitions

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<00:10:29.425>so <00:10:29.599>we <00:10:29.775>can <00:10:29.949>actually <00:10:30.125>keep <00:10:30.300>the <00:10:30.474>old <00:10:30.650>URL <00:10:30.824>model

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<00:10:31.665>and <00:10:31.805>still <00:10:31.944>make <00:10:32.084>it <00:10:32.224>look <00:10:32.365>like <00:10:32.505>it's <00:10:32.645>an, <00:10:32.785>it's <00:10:32.925>an <00:10:33.064>SBA.

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<00:10:34.545>And <00:10:34.719>I <00:10:34.895>find <00:10:35.069>that <00:10:35.245>a <00:10:35.420>really, <00:10:35.594>really <00:10:35.770>interesting <00:10:35.944>approach

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<00:10:36.945>to <00:10:37.120>basically <00:10:37.295>put <00:10:37.470>it <00:10:37.645>in <00:10:37.820>the <00:10:37.995>platform <00:10:38.170>that <00:10:38.345>you,

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<00:10:39.875>that <00:10:40.174>it <00:10:40.473>doesn't <00:10:40.772>feel <00:10:41.072>like

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<00:10:41.205>that <00:10:41.380>it's <00:10:41.555>actually <00:10:41.730>going <00:10:41.905>from <00:10:42.080>one <00:10:42.255>page <00:10:42.430>to <00:10:42.605>another,

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<00:10:43.185>but <00:10:43.340>it <00:10:43.496>does <00:10:43.651>go <00:10:43.807>from <00:10:43.962>point <00:10:44.118>page <00:10:44.273>to <00:10:44.429>another <00:10:44.584>seats

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<00:10:45.905>to <00:10:46.060>history <00:10:46.216>allows <00:10:46.371>the <00:10:46.527>black <00:10:46.682>back <00:10:46.838>button <00:10:46.993>all <00:10:47.149>the <00:10:47.305>things

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<00:10:49.125>that <00:10:49.300>we <00:10:49.475>keep <00:10:49.650>having <00:10:49.825>to <00:10:50.000>reinvent, <00:10:50.175>uh, <00:10:50.350>in, <00:10:50.525>uh,

250
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<00:10:52.485>that <00:10:52.685>was <00:10:52.885>already <00:10:53.085>in <00:10:53.285>the <00:10:53.485>platform <00:10:53.685>in <00:10:53.885>like

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<00:10:54.405>one <00:10:54.729>of <00:10:55.053>these <00:10:55.377>abstractions.

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<00:10:55.825>It <00:10:55.980>also <00:10:56.136>feels <00:10:56.291>weird <00:10:56.447>that <00:10:56.602>all <00:10:56.758>of <00:10:56.913>these <00:10:57.069>abstraction <00:10:57.225>models,

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<00:10:58.005>when <00:10:58.160>they <00:10:58.316>come <00:10:58.471>up, <00:10:58.627>they <00:10:58.782>always <00:10:58.938>say <00:10:59.093>like, <00:10:59.249>oh, <00:10:59.405>we,

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<00:11:00.125>we <00:11:00.280>make <00:11:00.436>it <00:11:00.591>easy <00:11:00.747>for <00:11:00.902>you <00:11:01.058>in <00:11:01.213>like <00:11:01.369>five <00:11:01.525>minutes

255
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<00:11:02.385>to <00:11:02.665>build <00:11:02.944>your <00:11:03.225>first <00:11:03.505>prototype <00:11:03.785>app.

256
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<00:11:04.465>And <00:11:04.745>they <00:11:05.025>always <00:11:05.305>talk <00:11:05.585>about <00:11:05.865>prototypes.

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<00:11:06.325>They <00:11:06.605>never <00:11:06.885>talk <00:11:07.165>about <00:11:07.445>final <00:11:07.725>applications.

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<00:11:08.785>And <00:11:08.940>then <00:11:09.096>when <00:11:09.251>it <00:11:09.407>comes <00:11:09.562>to <00:11:09.718>like <00:11:09.873>building, <00:11:10.029>uh, <00:11:10.185>uh,

259
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<00:11:11.335>accessible <00:11:11.776>applications <00:11:12.217>as <00:11:12.657>well,

260
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<00:11:12.805>especially <00:11:12.979>when <00:11:13.155>you <00:11:13.329>talk <00:11:13.505>about <00:11:13.680>focus, <00:11:13.854>uh, <00:11:14.030>making, <00:11:14.204>uh,

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<00:11:15.785>ma <00:11:15.925>making <00:11:16.064>those <00:11:16.204>things <00:11:16.344>work <00:11:16.485>then <00:11:16.625>actually <00:11:16.765>cost <00:11:16.905>you <00:11:17.045>more <00:11:17.185>time

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<00:11:18.925>than <00:11:19.080>if <00:11:19.236>you <00:11:19.391>would've <00:11:19.547>started <00:11:19.702>with <00:11:19.858>vanilla <00:11:20.013>to <00:11:20.169>start <00:11:20.324>with.

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<00:11:21.705>But <00:11:21.845>I <00:11:21.985>can, <00:11:22.125>to <00:11:22.265>a <00:11:22.405>degree <00:11:22.545>understand <00:11:22.685>that <00:11:22.825>when <00:11:22.965>it <00:11:23.105>comes

264
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<00:11:25.225>to <00:11:25.615>React <00:11:26.005>and <00:11:26.395>others

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<00:11:26.955>that <00:11:27.082>there <00:11:27.209>is <00:11:27.336>a <00:11:27.464>consistency <00:11:27.591>in <00:11:27.718>the <00:11:27.845>la <00:11:27.973>uh, <00:11:28.100>in <00:11:28.227>the <00:11:28.355>syntax

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<00:11:31.185>and <00:11:31.423>the <00:11:31.661>language <00:11:31.900>of <00:11:32.139>it.

267
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<00:11:32.555>Whereas <00:11:32.682>like, <00:11:32.809>newer <00:11:32.936>features <00:11:33.064>in <00:11:33.191>CSS <00:11:33.318>when <00:11:33.445>you <00:11:33.573>take <00:11:33.700>a <00:11:33.827>look <00:11:33.954>at

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<00:11:36.685>like <00:11:36.964>a <00:11:37.244>flex <00:11:37.525>box <00:11:37.805>and <00:11:38.084>grid,

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<00:11:38.745>and <00:11:38.900>now <00:11:39.056>like, <00:11:39.211>uh, <00:11:39.367>I <00:11:39.522>mean, <00:11:39.678>I'm <00:11:39.833>happy <00:11:39.989>to <00:11:40.145>pick,

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<00:11:41.085>got <00:11:41.240>nesting <00:11:41.396>in <00:11:41.551>CSS <00:11:41.707>now, <00:11:41.862>which <00:11:42.018>is <00:11:42.173>very <00:11:42.329>simple <00:11:42.485>syntax.

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<00:11:44.045>'cause <00:11:44.245>we <00:11:44.444>had <00:11:44.645>like <00:11:44.844>discussions <00:11:45.045>about <00:11:45.245>having <00:11:45.444>different

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<00:11:46.325>syntax <00:11:46.577>for <00:11:46.829>that <00:11:47.081>as <00:11:47.333>well.

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<00:11:48.145>Uh, <00:11:48.300>but <00:11:48.456>it <00:11:48.611>feels <00:11:48.767>like <00:11:48.922>that, <00:11:49.078>yeah, <00:11:49.233>something <00:11:49.389>like <00:11:49.545>CSS

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<00:11:51.125>and <00:11:51.475>Grid <00:11:51.825>explaining <00:11:52.175>to <00:11:52.525>somebody

275
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<00:11:53.065>who <00:11:53.205>works <00:11:53.345>in <00:11:53.485>a <00:11:53.625>component <00:11:53.765>world <00:11:53.905>is <00:11:54.045>kind <00:11:54.185>of <00:11:54.325>really <00:11:54.465>tough.

276
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<00:11:56.315>It's, <00:11:56.490>it's <00:11:56.665>a, <00:11:56.840>it's, <00:11:57.015>it's <00:11:57.190>a <00:11:57.365>steep <00:11:57.540>learning <00:11:57.715>curve,

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<00:11:59.385>but, <00:11:59.540>uh, <00:11:59.696>um, <00:11:59.851>that's <00:12:00.007>why <00:12:00.162>people <00:12:00.318>go <00:12:00.473>for <00:12:00.629>these <00:12:00.785>abstractions.

278
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<00:12:03.425>But <00:12:03.552>in <00:12:03.679>the <00:12:03.806>end, <00:12:03.934>what <00:12:04.061>ends <00:12:04.188>up <00:12:04.315>in <00:12:04.443>the <00:12:04.570>browser <00:12:04.697>is <00:12:04.824>HTML

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<00:12:06.805>and <00:12:06.960>CSS, <00:12:07.116>even <00:12:07.271>if <00:12:07.427>you <00:12:07.582>generate <00:12:07.738>everything <00:12:07.893>with <00:12:08.049>HTML, <00:12:08.204>with,

280
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<00:12:09.755>with <00:12:10.035>JavaScript, <00:12:10.314>it's <00:12:10.595>HTML <00:12:10.875>and <00:12:11.155>CSS.

281
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<00:12:12.325>So <00:12:12.480>you <00:12:12.636>might <00:12:12.791>as <00:12:12.947>well <00:12:13.102>understand <00:12:13.258>what <00:12:13.413>can <00:12:13.569>be <00:12:13.725>done.

282
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<00:12:15.795>What <00:12:15.950>frustrated <00:12:16.106>me <00:12:16.261>as <00:12:16.417>a, <00:12:16.572>as <00:12:16.728>a <00:12:16.883>browser <00:12:17.039>maker <00:12:17.194>was

283
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<00:12:18.965>that <00:12:19.165>people <00:12:19.365>didn't <00:12:19.565>use <00:12:19.765>the, <00:12:19.965>the <00:12:20.165>platform <00:12:20.365>things

284
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<00:12:21.445>because <00:12:21.620>those <00:12:21.795>were <00:12:21.970>the <00:12:22.145>ones <00:12:22.320>that <00:12:22.495>we <00:12:22.670>could <00:12:22.845>optimize.

285
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<00:12:23.815>Those <00:12:23.970>were <00:12:24.126>the <00:12:24.281>ones <00:12:24.437>where <00:12:24.592>we <00:12:24.748>could <00:12:24.903>do <00:12:25.059>speed <00:12:25.215>optimization

286
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<00:12:26.625>for <00:12:26.905>your <00:12:27.185>memory <00:12:27.465>optimization <00:12:27.745>for <00:12:28.025>you

287
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<00:12:28.715>because <00:12:29.181>they <00:12:29.648>were <00:12:30.115>standardized.

288
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<00:12:30.825>But <00:12:31.105>if <00:12:31.385>every <00:12:31.665>framework <00:12:31.945>did <00:12:32.225>something

289
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<00:12:32.525>different, <00:12:32.875>we <00:12:33.225>had <00:12:33.574>a <00:12:33.925>problem.

290
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<00:12:34.705>So <00:12:34.880>what <00:12:35.055>are <00:12:35.230>your <00:12:35.405>thoughts <00:12:35.580>on <00:12:35.755>HTMX, <00:12:35.930>which <00:12:36.105>seems

291
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<00:12:37.225>to <00:12:37.400>be <00:12:37.575>like <00:12:37.750>just <00:12:37.925>building <00:12:38.100>on <00:12:38.275>top <00:12:38.450>of <00:12:38.625>HTML

292
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<00:12:40.025>and <00:12:40.180>give <00:12:40.336>all <00:12:40.491>the <00:12:40.647>other <00:12:40.802>features <00:12:40.958>that <00:12:41.113>React <00:12:41.269>and <00:12:41.425>View

293
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<00:12:43.065>and <00:12:43.205>next <00:12:43.345>years <00:12:43.485>and <00:12:43.625>whatever <00:12:43.765>they're <00:12:43.905>called <00:12:44.045>bring <00:12:44.185>in <00:12:44.325>as <00:12:44.465>well,

294
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<00:12:46.505>but <00:12:46.680>seems <00:12:46.855>there <00:12:47.030>was <00:12:47.205>a <00:12:47.380>flash <00:12:47.555>in <00:12:47.730>the <00:12:47.905>pan,

295
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<00:12:48.365>people <00:12:48.645>were <00:12:48.925>too <00:12:49.205>excited <00:12:49.485>about <00:12:49.765>it.

296
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<00:12:50.865>Uh, <00:12:51.065>I <00:12:51.265>think <00:12:51.465>HTMX <00:12:51.665>is, <00:12:51.865>uh, <00:12:52.065>very <00:12:52.265>interesting.

297
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<00:12:54.805>I, <00:12:54.932>I <00:12:55.059>think <00:12:55.186>that <00:12:55.314>there's <00:12:55.441>a <00:12:55.568>balance <00:12:55.695>to <00:12:55.823>be <00:12:55.950>struck <00:12:56.077>between, <00:12:56.204>I,

298
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<00:12:58.165>I <00:12:58.305>kind <00:12:58.444>of <00:12:58.584>see <00:12:58.724>that <00:12:58.865>as <00:12:59.005>like <00:12:59.145>the <00:12:59.285>polar <00:12:59.425>opposite <00:12:59.564>to

299
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<00:13:01.675>what <00:13:01.862>I <00:13:02.050>would <00:13:02.237>call <00:13:02.425>the <00:13:02.612>typical <00:13:02.800>way

300
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<00:13:02.925>that <00:13:03.204>people <00:13:03.484>build <00:13:03.765>React <00:13:04.045>apps, <00:13:04.324>right?

301
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<00:13:04.515>This, <00:13:04.715>this <00:13:04.915>kind <00:13:05.115>of <00:13:05.314>like <00:13:05.515>SPA <00:13:05.715>style, <00:13:05.915>uh,

302
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<00:13:07.555>very <00:13:07.905>integrated <00:13:08.255>onto <00:13:08.604>the <00:13:08.954>client.

303
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<00:13:09.865>Um, <00:13:10.065>but <00:13:10.265>I <00:13:10.465>think <00:13:10.665>HTMX, <00:13:10.865>um, <00:13:11.065>is, <00:13:11.265>is

304
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<00:13:15.695>there, <00:13:15.989>there's <00:13:16.284>a <00:13:16.579>silent <00:13:16.874>part

305
00:13:17.005 --> 00:13:19.125
<00:13:17.005>that <00:13:17.285>HTMX <00:13:17.564>doesn't <00:13:17.845>really <00:13:18.125>address <00:13:18.405>necessarily,

306
00:13:19.215 --> 00:13:21.645
<00:13:19.215>which <00:13:19.355>is <00:13:19.495>like <00:13:19.635>the <00:13:19.775>latency <00:13:19.915>between <00:13:20.055>the <00:13:20.195>client <00:13:20.335>and <00:13:20.475>the <00:13:20.615>server.

307
00:13:22.545 --> 00:13:27.205
<00:13:22.545>And <00:13:22.661>so <00:13:22.778>I <00:13:22.895>think <00:13:23.011>that <00:13:23.128>there's <00:13:23.245>a <00:13:23.361>lot <00:13:23.478>of <00:13:23.594>good <00:13:23.711>quality <00:13:23.828>ui, <00:13:23.944>um,

308
00:13:27.675 --> 00:13:31.765
<00:13:27.675>will <00:13:27.954>almost <00:13:28.234>transparently <00:13:28.515>hide <00:13:28.795>these <00:13:29.074>kind

309
00:13:31.765 --> 00:13:32.765
<00:13:31.765>of <00:13:32.064>details <00:13:32.365>from <00:13:32.665>you.

310
00:13:33.385 --> 00:13:35.325
<00:13:33.385>Uh, <00:13:33.560>and <00:13:33.735>that's <00:13:33.910>not <00:13:34.085>something <00:13:34.260>that <00:13:34.435>can <00:13:34.610>be <00:13:34.785>need,

311
00:13:35.625 --> 00:13:37.885
<00:13:35.625>that's <00:13:35.780>not <00:13:35.936>something <00:13:36.091>that <00:13:36.247>can <00:13:36.402>be <00:13:36.558>reasonably <00:13:36.713>addressed <00:13:36.869>in <00:13:37.025>any

312
00:13:37.885 --> 00:13:39.685
<00:13:37.885>kind <00:13:38.118>of <00:13:38.351>framework, <00:13:38.585>I <00:13:38.818>don't <00:13:39.051>think, <00:13:39.285>um,

313
00:13:39.865 --> 00:13:44.695
<00:13:39.865>at <00:13:40.005>least <00:13:40.145>I <00:13:40.285>haven't <00:13:40.425>seen <00:13:40.565>it, <00:13:40.705>but <00:13:40.845>the <00:13:40.985>ability <00:13:41.125>to <00:13:41.265>hide

314
00:13:45.645 --> 00:13:47.175
<00:13:45.645>user <00:13:46.333>interaction, <00:13:47.021>uh,

315
00:13:47.175 --> 00:13:50.495
<00:13:47.175>but <00:13:47.375>the <00:13:47.574>ability <00:13:47.775>to <00:13:47.974>hide, <00:13:48.175>like <00:13:48.375>network <00:13:48.574>latency

316
00:13:50.495 --> 00:13:52.775
<00:13:50.495>behind <00:13:50.695>user <00:13:50.895>interaction, <00:13:51.095>I <00:13:51.295>think <00:13:51.495>is <00:13:51.695>really <00:13:51.895>important.

317
00:13:53.195 --> 00:13:55.055
<00:13:53.195>And <00:13:53.370>that's <00:13:53.545>where <00:13:53.720>this <00:13:53.895>balance <00:13:54.070>needs <00:13:54.245>to <00:13:54.420>be <00:13:54.595>struck

318
00:13:55.055 --> 00:13:57.065
<00:13:55.055>because, <00:13:56.454>um,

319
00:13:57.985 --> 00:14:02.745
<00:13:57.985>H-T-M-X-H-T-M-X <00:13:58.265>effectively <00:13:58.545>says, <00:13:58.825>um, <00:13:59.105>well <00:13:59.385>the,

320
00:14:02.765 --> 00:14:04.985
<00:14:02.765>the <00:14:02.920>server <00:14:03.076>is <00:14:03.231>where <00:14:03.387>all <00:14:03.542>of <00:14:03.698>your <00:14:03.853>state's <00:14:04.009>gonna <00:14:04.165>reside

321
00:14:05.205 --> 00:14:06.425
<00:14:05.205>and <00:14:05.479>you're <00:14:05.754>just <00:14:06.028>gonna <00:14:06.303>kind

322
00:14:06.425 --> 00:14:09.505
<00:14:06.425>of <00:14:06.599>feed <00:14:06.775>HTML <00:14:06.949>down <00:14:07.125>the <00:14:07.300>wire <00:14:07.474>into <00:14:07.650>the <00:14:07.824>browser,

323
00:14:10.875 --> 00:14:12.745
<00:14:10.875>which <00:14:11.108>is <00:14:11.341>kind <00:14:11.575>of <00:14:11.808>the <00:14:12.041>right <00:14:12.275>direction.

324
00:14:13.085 --> 00:14:17.145
<00:14:13.085>But <00:14:13.260>the <00:14:13.435>problem <00:14:13.610>there <00:14:13.785>is <00:14:13.960>that <00:14:14.135>every <00:14:14.310>click, <00:14:14.485>uh,

325
00:14:17.165 --> 00:14:18.425
<00:14:17.165>if <00:14:17.327>you <00:14:17.488>are <00:14:17.651>on <00:14:17.813>like <00:14:17.974>a <00:14:18.137>slow <00:14:18.299>network

326
00:14:18.565 --> 00:14:23.465
<00:14:18.565>or <00:14:18.692>if <00:14:18.819>you <00:14:18.946>are, <00:14:19.074>uh, <00:14:19.201>good <00:14:19.328>distance <00:14:19.455>away <00:14:19.583>from <00:14:19.710>the <00:14:19.837>server, <00:14:19.965>uh,

327
00:14:23.645 --> 00:14:26.185
<00:14:23.645>all <00:14:23.800>of <00:14:23.956>those <00:14:24.111>clicks <00:14:24.267>are, <00:14:24.422>are <00:14:24.578>felt <00:14:24.733>by <00:14:24.889>the <00:14:25.045>user.

328
00:14:27.245 --> 00:14:29.265
<00:14:27.245>So <00:14:27.420>I <00:14:27.595>think <00:14:27.770>that <00:14:27.945>there's <00:14:28.120>a <00:14:28.295>good <00:14:28.470>place <00:14:28.645>for

329
00:14:30.495 --> 00:14:34.185
<00:14:30.495>more <00:14:30.775>richer <00:14:31.055>client <00:14:31.335>side, <00:14:31.615>uh, <00:14:31.895>interactivity.

330
00:14:34.965 --> 00:14:38.425
<00:14:34.965>But <00:14:35.092>I <00:14:35.219>think <00:14:35.346>in <00:14:35.474>that <00:14:35.601>space, <00:14:35.728>that's <00:14:35.855>where <00:14:35.983>you <00:14:36.110>can <00:14:36.237>hide <00:14:36.365>some

331
00:14:38.425 --> 00:14:40.745
<00:14:38.425>of <00:14:38.775>this, <00:14:39.125>like <00:14:39.474>network <00:14:39.824>latency.

332
00:14:41.145 --> 00:14:44.775
<00:14:41.145>I <00:14:41.261>think <00:14:41.378>this <00:14:41.495>is <00:14:41.611>a <00:14:41.728>very <00:14:41.845>common <00:14:41.961>thing <00:14:42.078>in <00:14:42.194>UI <00:14:42.311>design <00:14:42.428>in <00:14:42.545>general.

333
00:14:45.275 --> 00:14:48.175
<00:14:45.275>You <00:14:45.430>can <00:14:45.586>hide <00:14:45.741>CPU <00:14:45.897>cycles, <00:14:46.052>you <00:14:46.208>can <00:14:46.363>hide <00:14:46.519>network <00:14:46.675>cycles

334
00:14:48.195 --> 00:14:50.895
<00:14:48.195>behind <00:14:48.428>animations, <00:14:48.661>for <00:14:48.895>example, <00:14:49.128>you <00:14:49.361>know <00:14:49.595>that,

335
00:14:50.925 --> 00:14:52.885
<00:14:50.925>that <00:14:51.391>200 <00:14:51.858>millisecond <00:14:52.324>anime,

336
00:14:53.075 --> 00:14:55.885
<00:14:53.075>this <00:14:53.202>is <00:14:53.329>a <00:14:53.456>very <00:14:53.584>common <00:14:53.711>thing <00:14:53.838>in <00:14:53.965>game <00:14:54.093>design, <00:14:54.220>is <00:14:54.347>this <00:14:54.475>idea

337
00:14:55.885 --> 00:14:57.485
<00:14:55.885>of <00:14:56.235>like <00:14:56.585>the <00:14:56.935>interstitial <00:14:57.285>loading.

338
00:14:57.905 --> 00:15:00.485
<00:14:57.905>And <00:14:58.032>so <00:14:58.159>like <00:14:58.286>in <00:14:58.414>a <00:14:58.541>game, <00:14:58.668>you <00:14:58.795>might <00:14:58.923>see <00:14:59.050>this <00:14:59.177>animation <00:14:59.305>that,

339
00:15:00.505 --> 00:15:02.485
<00:15:00.505>you <00:15:00.705>know, <00:15:00.905>like <00:15:01.105>character <00:15:01.305>is <00:15:01.505>opening <00:15:01.705>a <00:15:01.905>door

340
00:15:02.905 --> 00:15:05.485
<00:15:02.905>and <00:15:03.060>in <00:15:03.216>the <00:15:03.371>background, <00:15:03.527>the <00:15:03.682>game <00:15:03.838>is <00:15:03.993>like <00:15:04.149>furiously <00:15:04.305>trying

341
00:15:05.485 --> 00:15:06.925
<00:15:05.485>to <00:15:05.670>like, <00:15:05.855>pull <00:15:06.040>in <00:15:06.225>assets <00:15:06.410>from <00:15:06.595>the <00:15:06.781>disc

342
00:15:06.945 --> 00:15:09.965
<00:15:06.945>or <00:15:07.061>like <00:15:07.178>render <00:15:07.295>the <00:15:07.411>render <00:15:07.528>the <00:15:07.645>the <00:15:07.761>new <00:15:07.878>world <00:15:07.995>in <00:15:08.111>front <00:15:08.228>of <00:15:08.345>you

343
00:15:10.225 --> 00:15:11.245
<00:15:10.225>and <00:15:10.408>you're <00:15:10.592>just <00:15:10.775>seeing <00:15:10.959>the <00:15:11.143>same

344
00:15:11.245 --> 00:15:12.605
<00:15:11.245>animation <00:15:11.551>for <00:15:11.857>the <00:15:12.163>hundredth <00:15:12.469>time.

345
00:15:13.125 --> 00:15:16.365
<00:15:13.125>I <00:15:13.280>think <00:15:13.436>that <00:15:13.591>is <00:15:13.747>like <00:15:13.902>applicable <00:15:14.058>to <00:15:14.213>UI <00:15:14.369>as <00:15:14.525>well,

346
00:15:16.425 --> 00:15:18.085
<00:15:16.425>and <00:15:16.658>it's <00:15:16.891>especially <00:15:17.125>applicable <00:15:17.358>to <00:15:17.591>the <00:15:17.824>network.

347
00:15:18.905 --> 00:15:20.205
<00:15:18.905>So <00:15:19.139>we're <00:15:19.373>gonna <00:15:19.607>have <00:15:19.841>like <00:15:20.075>cut,

348
00:15:20.295 --> 00:15:22.445
<00:15:20.295>we're <00:15:20.469>gonna <00:15:20.645>have <00:15:20.819>like <00:15:20.995>cut <00:15:21.170>scenes <00:15:21.344>and <00:15:21.520>GitHub <00:15:21.694>soon.

349
00:15:22.445 --> 00:15:24.525
<00:15:22.445>Like <00:15:22.572>you <00:15:22.699>click <00:15:22.826>a <00:15:22.954>button <00:15:23.081>and <00:15:23.208>then <00:15:23.335>Octocat <00:15:23.463>is <00:15:23.590>doing <00:15:23.717>a <00:15:23.845>dance

350
00:15:24.525 --> 00:15:27.605
<00:15:24.525>and <00:15:24.699>like <00:15:24.875>keeping <00:15:25.050>you <00:15:25.225>occupied <00:15:25.400>while <00:15:25.574>something's <00:15:25.750>going <00:15:25.925>on.

351
00:15:28.275 --> 00:15:29.605
<00:15:28.275>Yeah, <00:15:28.674>exactly. <00:15:29.073>Yeah. <00:15:29.472>Yeah.

352
00:15:29.605 --> 00:15:31.725
<00:15:29.605>But <00:15:29.760>I <00:15:29.916>mean, <00:15:30.071>we, <00:15:30.227>we <00:15:30.382>kind <00:15:30.538>of <00:15:30.693>have <00:15:30.849>that, <00:15:31.005>um,

353
00:15:32.545 --> 00:15:34.445
<00:15:32.545>but <00:15:32.778>it's <00:15:33.011>like <00:15:33.245>with <00:15:33.478>skeleton <00:15:33.711>UIs, <00:15:33.944>right?

354
00:15:34.505 --> 00:15:37.125
<00:15:34.505>And <00:15:34.632>so <00:15:34.759>it's <00:15:34.886>like <00:15:35.014>this, <00:15:35.141>this <00:15:35.268>very <00:15:35.395>visible <00:15:35.523>thing <00:15:35.650>to <00:15:35.777>the <00:15:35.905>user.

355
00:15:37.235 --> 00:15:39.645
<00:15:37.235>It's <00:15:37.435>a <00:15:37.635>very <00:15:37.835>clear <00:15:38.035>signal <00:15:38.235>that <00:15:38.435>something's <00:15:38.635>happening.

356
00:15:40.345 --> 00:15:44.845
<00:15:40.345>Um, <00:15:40.461>but <00:15:40.578>I <00:15:40.695>think <00:15:40.811>that <00:15:40.928>that <00:15:41.045>can <00:15:41.161>be <00:15:41.278>reduced, <00:15:41.395>um, <00:15:41.511>by, <00:15:41.628>by, <00:15:41.745>uh,

357
00:15:45.265 --> 00:15:48.485
<00:15:45.265>clever <00:15:45.498>and <00:15:45.731>tasteful <00:15:45.965>optimizations <00:15:46.198>of <00:15:46.431>the <00:15:46.665>ui.

358
00:15:49.165 --> 00:15:50.485
<00:15:49.165>I, <00:15:49.363>I <00:15:49.560>think <00:15:49.759>that <00:15:49.957>that <00:15:50.155>is <00:15:50.353>something,

359
00:15:50.555 --> 00:15:53.485
<00:15:50.555>it's <00:15:50.729>not <00:15:50.905>necessarily <00:15:51.079>intrinsic <00:15:51.255>to <00:15:51.430>what <00:15:51.604>HTMX <00:15:51.780>is <00:15:51.954>offering,

360
00:15:53.945 --> 00:15:55.045
<00:15:53.945>but <00:15:54.143>I <00:15:54.341>think <00:15:54.539>it <00:15:54.737>kind <00:15:54.935>of,

361
00:15:55.585 --> 00:15:58.125
<00:15:55.585>it <00:15:55.725>teeters <00:15:55.865>maybe <00:15:56.005>too <00:15:56.145>far <00:15:56.285>in <00:15:56.425>the <00:15:56.565>other <00:15:56.705>direction <00:15:56.845>of <00:15:56.985>like,

362
00:15:58.335 --> 00:16:00.805
<00:15:58.335>let's, <00:15:58.475>let's <00:15:58.615>go <00:15:58.755>back <00:15:58.895>to <00:15:59.035>like <00:15:59.175>everything <00:15:59.315>being <00:15:59.455>on <00:15:59.595>the <00:15:59.735>server.

363
00:16:01.165 --> 00:16:02.205
<00:16:01.165>I <00:16:01.321>think <00:16:01.477>there's <00:16:01.633>a <00:16:01.789>good <00:16:01.945>middle <00:16:02.101>ground,

364
00:16:02.745 --> 00:16:05.845
<00:16:02.745>but <00:16:02.861>I <00:16:02.978>think <00:16:03.095>this <00:16:03.211>is <00:16:03.328>where <00:16:03.445>the <00:16:03.561>platform <00:16:03.678>has <00:16:03.795>a <00:16:03.911>lot <00:16:04.028>to <00:16:04.145>offer

365
00:16:06.025 --> 00:16:08.005
<00:16:06.025>and <00:16:06.225>is <00:16:06.425>working <00:16:06.625>up <00:16:06.824>to <00:16:07.025>those <00:16:07.225>things, <00:16:07.425>right?

366
00:16:08.505 --> 00:16:11.285
<00:16:08.505>We <00:16:08.660>see <00:16:08.816>things <00:16:08.971>like <00:16:09.127>the <00:16:09.282>new <00:16:09.438>dialogue <00:16:09.593>element, <00:16:09.749>the <00:16:09.905>popovers,

367
00:16:11.545 --> 00:16:14.445
<00:16:11.545>uh, <00:16:11.700>all <00:16:11.856>of <00:16:12.011>this <00:16:12.167>kind <00:16:12.322>of <00:16:12.478>stuff <00:16:12.633>is <00:16:12.789>really <00:16:12.944>interesting.

368
00:16:15.225 --> 00:16:17.205
<00:16:15.225>Um, <00:16:15.425>and <00:16:15.625>it <00:16:15.825>solves <00:16:16.025>a <00:16:16.225>really <00:16:16.425>key <00:16:16.625>problem

369
00:16:17.505 --> 00:16:20.405
<00:16:17.505>for <00:16:17.660>these <00:16:17.816>richer <00:16:17.971>applications <00:16:18.127>that <00:16:18.282>do <00:16:18.438>need <00:16:18.593>these <00:16:18.749>kind <00:16:18.905>of,

370
00:16:20.905 --> 00:16:23.565
<00:16:20.905>uh, <00:16:21.138>layers <00:16:21.371>of <00:16:21.605>UI <00:16:21.838>in <00:16:22.071>this <00:16:22.305>interactivity.

371
00:16:24.585 --> 00:16:27.855
<00:16:24.585>Um, <00:16:24.725>but <00:16:24.865>hopefully <00:16:25.005>it <00:16:25.145>can <00:16:25.285>solve <00:16:25.425>it <00:16:25.565>in <00:16:25.705>a <00:16:25.845>way, <00:16:25.985>uh,

372
00:16:28.085 --> 00:16:30.455
<00:16:28.085>that <00:16:28.285>does <00:16:28.485>hide <00:16:28.685>those <00:16:28.885>kind <00:16:29.085>of <00:16:29.285>transition <00:16:29.485>points.

373
00:16:30.735 --> 00:16:32.975
<00:16:30.735>I <00:16:30.910>think <00:16:31.085>U <00:16:31.260>Transitions <00:16:31.435>is <00:16:31.610>another <00:16:31.785>good <00:16:31.960>example, <00:16:32.135>right?

374
00:16:33.275 --> 00:16:35.855
<00:16:33.275>We <00:16:33.449>can <00:16:33.625>kind <00:16:33.800>of, <00:16:33.975>um, <00:16:34.150>like <00:16:34.324>we're <00:16:34.500>still <00:16:34.675>facing

375
00:16:35.885 --> 00:16:37.415
<00:16:35.885>that <00:16:36.229>same <00:16:36.573>round <00:16:36.917>trip <00:16:37.262>time,

376
00:16:37.435 --> 00:16:39.215
<00:16:37.435>but <00:16:37.574>we're <00:16:37.714>just <00:16:37.854>hiding <00:16:37.994>it <00:16:38.135>with <00:16:38.275>a <00:16:38.415>bit <00:16:38.555>of <00:16:38.694>an <00:16:38.834>animation

377
00:16:39.355 --> 00:16:42.855
<00:16:39.355>or <00:16:39.530>just <00:16:39.705>a, <00:16:39.880>a <00:16:40.055>way <00:16:40.230>to <00:16:40.405>like <00:16:40.580>smooth <00:16:40.755>the,

378
00:16:42.955 --> 00:16:47.055
<00:16:42.955>the <00:16:43.110>transition <00:16:43.266>away <00:16:43.421>from <00:16:43.577>this <00:16:43.732>stark <00:16:43.888>kind <00:16:44.043>of, <00:16:44.199>you <00:16:44.355>know,

379
00:16:47.195 --> 00:16:49.255
<00:16:47.195>delete <00:16:47.428>the <00:16:47.661>page <00:16:47.895>and <00:16:48.128>re-render <00:16:48.361>everything <00:16:48.595>again.

380
00:16:50.165 --> 00:16:52.255
<00:16:50.165>Yeah, <00:16:50.339>I <00:16:50.515>mean, <00:16:50.689>the <00:16:50.865>browsers <00:16:51.040>did <00:16:51.214>that <00:16:51.390>with <00:16:51.564>caching

381
00:16:52.255 --> 00:16:54.415
<00:16:52.255>of <00:16:52.488>interfaces <00:16:52.721>already <00:16:52.955>for <00:16:53.188>quite <00:16:53.421>some <00:16:53.655>time.

382
00:16:54.615 --> 00:16:56.255
<00:16:54.615>I <00:16:54.965>mean, <00:16:55.315>one <00:16:55.665>frustrating <00:16:56.015>bit,

383
00:16:56.315 --> 00:16:59.215
<00:16:56.315>and <00:16:56.470>again, <00:16:56.626>thank <00:16:56.781>you <00:16:56.937>for <00:16:57.092>contributing <00:16:57.248>back <00:16:57.403>to <00:16:57.559>the <00:16:57.715>platform

384
00:16:59.215 --> 00:17:02.135
<00:16:59.215>because <00:16:59.355>one <00:16:59.495>frustrating <00:16:59.635>bit <00:16:59.775>I <00:16:59.915>had <00:17:00.055>in <00:17:00.195>in <00:17:00.335>Edge <00:17:00.475>was <00:17:00.615>like,

385
00:17:02.255 --> 00:17:04.655
<00:17:02.255>I <00:17:02.430>wanted <00:17:02.605>to <00:17:02.780>fix <00:17:02.955>so <00:17:03.130>many <00:17:03.305>broken <00:17:03.480>form <00:17:03.655>elements,

386
00:17:05.275 --> 00:17:08.535
<00:17:05.275>and <00:17:05.415>I <00:17:05.555>never <00:17:05.695>got <00:17:05.835>the <00:17:05.975>chance <00:17:06.115>to <00:17:06.255>actually <00:17:06.395>get <00:17:06.535>engineering <00:17:06.675>time

387
00:17:08.535 --> 00:17:10.215
<00:17:08.535>to <00:17:08.710>do <00:17:08.885>it <00:17:09.060>because <00:17:09.235>we <00:17:09.410>looked <00:17:09.585>at <00:17:09.760>the <00:17:09.935>numbers

388
00:17:10.315 --> 00:17:11.375
<00:17:10.315>and <00:17:10.633>nobody <00:17:10.951>used <00:17:11.269>them.

389
00:17:11.915 --> 00:17:13.175
<00:17:11.915>You <00:17:12.104>know, <00:17:12.292>like, <00:17:12.482>uh, <00:17:12.671>I <00:17:12.859>mean, <00:17:13.049>you,

390
00:17:13.275 --> 00:17:15.975
<00:17:13.275>you <00:17:13.430>can <00:17:13.586>complain <00:17:13.741>about <00:17:13.897>like <00:17:14.052>things <00:17:14.208>like, <00:17:14.363>uh, <00:17:14.519>I <00:17:14.675>mean,

391
00:17:15.975 --> 00:17:17.215
<00:17:15.974>now <00:17:16.253>we <00:17:16.532>got <00:17:16.811>selected <00:17:17.090>style

392
00:17:17.435 --> 00:17:20.295
<00:17:17.435>and <00:17:17.562>we <00:17:17.689>can <00:17:17.816>put <00:17:17.944>an <00:17:18.071>HR <00:17:18.198>inside <00:17:18.325>the <00:17:18.453>select <00:17:18.580>element <00:17:18.707>as <00:17:18.835>well.

393
00:17:20.315 --> 00:17:22.415
<00:17:20.315>So <00:17:20.470>that <00:17:20.626>was <00:17:20.781>a <00:17:20.937>big <00:17:21.092>pain <00:17:21.248>that <00:17:21.403>people <00:17:21.559>always <00:17:21.715>did,

394
00:17:22.795 --> 00:17:25.815
<00:17:22.795>but <00:17:22.970>it <00:17:23.145>needs <00:17:23.320>like <00:17:23.495>affirmative <00:17:23.670>action <00:17:23.845>from <00:17:24.020>our <00:17:24.195>side

395
00:17:25.835 --> 00:17:27.295
<00:17:25.835>to <00:17:26.097>actually <00:17:26.360>go <00:17:26.623>to <00:17:26.886>our <00:17:27.149>managers

396
00:17:27.295 --> 00:17:28.535
<00:17:27.295>and <00:17:27.481>say <00:17:27.667>like, <00:17:27.853>we <00:17:28.039>wanna <00:17:28.225>fix <00:17:28.411>that

397
00:17:28.535 --> 00:17:31.255
<00:17:28.535>because <00:17:28.710>if <00:17:28.885>it's <00:17:29.060>broken, <00:17:29.235>then <00:17:29.410>people <00:17:29.585>don't <00:17:29.760>use <00:17:29.935>it.

398
00:17:31.715 --> 00:17:34.255
<00:17:31.715>And, <00:17:31.870>uh, <00:17:32.026>basically <00:17:32.181>people <00:17:32.337>don't <00:17:32.492>use <00:17:32.648>it <00:17:32.803>because <00:17:32.959>it's <00:17:33.115>broken.

399
00:17:34.315 --> 00:17:35.495
<00:17:34.315>So <00:17:34.580>it's <00:17:34.846>a <00:17:35.111>catch <00:17:35.377>22.

400
00:17:36.175 --> 00:17:39.055
<00:17:36.175>I <00:17:36.315>found <00:17:36.455>also, <00:17:36.595>there's <00:17:36.735>a, <00:17:36.875>there's <00:17:37.014>a <00:17:37.155>massive <00:17:37.294>amount <00:17:37.435>of <00:17:37.575>like,

401
00:17:39.155 --> 00:17:40.975
<00:17:39.155>and <00:17:39.355>I <00:17:39.555>talked <00:17:39.754>yesterday <00:17:39.955>with <00:17:40.155>Paul <00:17:40.355>about <00:17:40.555>this.

402
00:17:41.005 --> 00:17:43.295
<00:17:41.005>There's <00:17:41.160>a <00:17:41.316>massive <00:17:41.471>amount <00:17:41.627>of <00:17:41.782>people <00:17:41.938>that <00:17:42.093>actually <00:17:42.249>wrote <00:17:42.405>like,

403
00:17:43.395 --> 00:17:44.455
<00:17:43.395>uh, <00:17:44.349>so

404
00:17:44.455 --> 00:17:47.455
<00:17:44.455>and <00:17:44.595>so, <00:17:44.735>uh, <00:17:44.875>is <00:17:45.014>dangerous <00:17:45.155>to <00:17:45.294>use, <00:17:45.435>don't <00:17:45.574>use <00:17:45.715>it <00:17:45.855>yet,

405
00:17:47.455 --> 00:17:49.015
<00:17:47.455>especially <00:17:48.155>accessibility <00:17:48.855>experts

406
00:17:49.665 --> 00:17:52.085
<00:17:49.665>and <00:17:49.820>say <00:17:49.976>like, <00:17:50.131>date <00:17:50.287>picker, <00:17:50.442>okay, <00:17:50.598>here's <00:17:50.753>like <00:17:50.909>three <00:17:51.065>bucks

407
00:17:52.085 --> 00:17:53.605
<00:17:52.085>and <00:17:52.313>a <00:17:52.541>date <00:17:52.769>picker, <00:17:52.997>and <00:17:53.225>then <00:17:53.453>un

408
00:17:53.775 --> 00:17:55.565
<00:17:53.775>until <00:17:54.008>they're <00:17:54.241>fixed, <00:17:54.475>you <00:17:54.708>cannot <00:17:54.941>use <00:17:55.175>it.

409
00:17:55.675 --> 00:17:58.965
<00:17:55.675>Whereas <00:17:55.830>like <00:17:55.986>Native <00:17:56.141>controls <00:17:56.297>in <00:17:56.452>React <00:17:56.608>have <00:17:56.763>the <00:17:56.919>same <00:17:57.075>issues,

410
00:17:59.025 --> 00:18:01.205
<00:17:59.025>but <00:17:59.200>people <00:17:59.375>don't <00:17:59.550>have <00:17:59.725>any <00:17:59.900>qualms <00:18:00.075>about <00:18:00.250>using <00:18:00.425>them

411
00:18:01.205 --> 00:18:02.685
<00:18:01.205>because <00:18:01.395>they <00:18:01.585>don't <00:18:01.775>know <00:18:01.966>that <00:18:02.156>it's <00:18:02.346>even <00:18:02.537>broken.

412
00:18:02.945 --> 00:18:06.645
<00:18:02.945>So <00:18:03.145>the, <00:18:03.345>at <00:18:03.544>the <00:18:03.745>discarding <00:18:03.945>something <00:18:04.145>because <00:18:04.345>it's,

413
00:18:06.645 --> 00:18:09.125
<00:18:06.645>or, <00:18:06.785>uh, <00:18:06.925>there, <00:18:07.065>there <00:18:07.205>seems <00:18:07.345>to <00:18:07.485>be <00:18:07.625>a <00:18:07.764>fetish <00:18:07.905>in <00:18:08.045>the,

414
00:18:09.305 --> 00:18:11.165
<00:18:09.305>in <00:18:09.655>the <00:18:10.005>web <00:18:10.355>dev <00:18:10.705>community

415
00:18:11.265 --> 00:18:15.085
<00:18:11.265>to <00:18:11.420>basically <00:18:11.576>find <00:18:11.731>flaws <00:18:11.887>in <00:18:12.042>native <00:18:12.198>com, <00:18:12.353>uh, <00:18:12.509>native, <00:18:12.665>uh,

416
00:18:15.085 --> 00:18:17.885
<00:18:15.085>components, <00:18:15.260>and <00:18:15.435>then <00:18:15.610>say <00:18:15.785>like, <00:18:15.960>they're <00:18:16.135>broken <00:18:16.310>this <00:18:16.485>way

417
00:18:17.885 --> 00:18:20.365
<00:18:17.885>and <00:18:18.001>that <00:18:18.118>way <00:18:18.235>and <00:18:18.351>that <00:18:18.468>way, <00:18:18.585>and <00:18:18.701>they <00:18:18.818>don't <00:18:18.935>even <00:18:19.051>find <00:18:19.168>a <00:18:19.285>bug

418
00:18:20.585 --> 00:18:21.765
<00:18:20.585>for <00:18:20.762>the, <00:18:20.939>for <00:18:21.116>the, <00:18:21.293>for <00:18:21.470>the <00:18:21.647>browser.

419
00:18:21.825 --> 00:18:23.765
<00:18:21.825>And <00:18:22.000>then <00:18:22.175>you're <00:18:22.350>like, <00:18:22.525>how <00:18:22.700>can <00:18:22.875>we <00:18:23.050>fix <00:18:23.225>that?

420
00:18:24.425 --> 00:18:27.045
<00:18:24.425>That's <00:18:24.580>just <00:18:24.736>basically, <00:18:24.891>uh, <00:18:25.047>a <00:18:25.202>lot <00:18:25.358>of, <00:18:25.513>like, <00:18:25.669>a <00:18:25.825>lot

421
00:18:27.045 --> 00:18:28.365
<00:18:27.045>of <00:18:27.282>people <00:18:27.520>don't <00:18:27.757>touch <00:18:27.995>the <00:18:28.233>web

422
00:18:28.365 --> 00:18:31.485
<00:18:28.365>because <00:18:28.505>the <00:18:28.645>luminaries <00:18:28.785>of <00:18:28.925>the <00:18:29.065>say <00:18:29.205>like, <00:18:29.345>it <00:18:29.485>can't <00:18:29.625>be <00:18:29.765>used.

423
00:18:31.945 --> 00:18:34.125
<00:18:31.945>So <00:18:32.145>I <00:18:32.345>think <00:18:32.544>that's <00:18:32.745>something <00:18:32.945>we <00:18:33.145>really <00:18:33.345>need

424
00:18:34.125 --> 00:18:37.045
<00:18:34.125>to <00:18:34.232>stop <00:18:34.340>if <00:18:34.448>we <00:18:34.555>want <00:18:34.663>people <00:18:34.771>to <00:18:34.878>come <00:18:34.986>back <00:18:35.094>to <00:18:35.201>the, <00:18:35.309>to <00:18:35.417>the <00:18:35.525>fold

425
00:18:37.065 --> 00:18:38.525
<00:18:37.065>and <00:18:37.393>actually <00:18:37.722>do <00:18:38.050>things <00:18:38.379>natively.

426
00:18:39.205 --> 00:18:41.295
<00:18:39.205>Yeah. <00:18:39.379>Yeah. <00:18:39.554>Uh, <00:18:39.730>there's <00:18:39.905>a <00:18:40.080>lot <00:18:40.254>there, <00:18:40.429>isn't <00:18:40.605>there.

427
00:18:41.475 --> 00:18:46.005
<00:18:41.475>Um, <00:18:41.675>I, <00:18:41.875>I <00:18:42.074>think <00:18:42.274>I <00:18:42.475>agree <00:18:42.675>that <00:18:42.875>we,

428
00:18:46.025 --> 00:18:49.765
<00:18:46.025>we <00:18:46.165>can <00:18:46.305>kind <00:18:46.445>of <00:18:46.585>quickly <00:18:46.725>dismiss <00:18:46.865>parts <00:18:47.005>of <00:18:47.145>the, <00:18:47.285>um, <00:18:47.425>parts

429
00:18:49.765 --> 00:18:52.125
<00:18:49.765>of <00:18:49.965>the <00:18:50.165>web <00:18:50.365>because <00:18:50.565>of <00:18:50.765>a <00:18:50.965>few <00:18:51.165>issues.

430
00:18:52.875 --> 00:18:55.805
<00:18:52.875>It's, <00:18:53.050>it's, <00:18:53.225>it's <00:18:53.400>something <00:18:53.575>that <00:18:53.750>comes <00:18:53.925>up <00:18:54.100>regularly, <00:18:54.275>um,

431
00:18:56.305 --> 00:19:00.045
<00:18:56.305>for <00:18:56.432>me <00:18:56.559>is <00:18:56.686>that, <00:18:56.814>um, <00:18:56.941>like <00:18:57.068>some <00:18:57.195>of <00:18:57.323>these <00:18:57.450>elements, <00:18:57.577>you <00:18:57.705>know,

432
00:19:00.705 --> 00:19:02.845
<00:19:00.705>the <00:19:00.938>dialogue <00:19:01.171>element <00:19:01.405>has <00:19:01.638>existed <00:19:01.871>since <00:19:02.105>like

433
00:19:03.225 --> 00:19:04.645
<00:19:03.225>2014 <00:19:03.864>or <00:19:04.503>something.

434
00:19:05.145 --> 00:19:07.685
<00:19:05.145>Um, <00:19:05.272>but <00:19:05.399>it's <00:19:05.526>only <00:19:05.654>recently <00:19:05.781>in <00:19:05.908>the <00:19:06.035>last <00:19:06.163>sort <00:19:06.290>of <00:19:06.417>few <00:19:06.545>years

435
00:19:07.685 --> 00:19:10.125
<00:19:07.685>where <00:19:07.825>it's <00:19:07.965>gone <00:19:08.105>through <00:19:08.245>a <00:19:08.385>lot <00:19:08.524>of <00:19:08.665>iterations <00:19:08.804>to <00:19:08.945>improve <00:19:09.085>it.

436
00:19:10.705 --> 00:19:11.925
<00:19:10.705>Um, <00:19:10.979>and <00:19:11.254>it, <00:19:11.528>and <00:19:11.803>it,

437
00:19:12.185 --> 00:19:15.405
<00:19:12.185>it <00:19:12.360>didn't <00:19:12.534>exist <00:19:12.710>in <00:19:12.885>a <00:19:13.060>cross <00:19:13.235>browser <00:19:13.409>way, <00:19:13.585>right?

438
00:19:15.405 --> 00:19:17.805
<00:19:15.405>It, <00:19:15.605>it <00:19:15.805>only <00:19:16.004>existed <00:19:16.205>in <00:19:16.405>Chrome <00:19:16.605>in <00:19:16.805>2014,

439
00:19:17.825 --> 00:19:20.565
<00:19:17.825>and <00:19:18.000>I <00:19:18.175>think <00:19:18.350>maybe <00:19:18.525>it <00:19:18.700>was <00:19:18.875>2018 <00:19:19.050>when, <00:19:19.225>um,

440
00:19:21.035 --> 00:19:22.885
<00:19:21.035>Firefox <00:19:21.268>started <00:19:21.501>working <00:19:21.735>on <00:19:21.968>it <00:19:22.201>or <00:19:22.435>something.

441
00:19:23.585 --> 00:19:26.565
<00:19:23.585>Um, <00:19:23.725>but <00:19:23.865>there's <00:19:24.005>been <00:19:24.145>a <00:19:24.285>lot <00:19:24.425>of <00:19:24.565>new <00:19:24.705>work <00:19:24.845>on <00:19:24.985>it

442
00:19:26.985 --> 00:19:28.565
<00:19:26.985>as <00:19:27.218>people <00:19:27.451>have <00:19:27.685>started <00:19:27.918>to <00:19:28.151>use <00:19:28.385>it.

443
00:19:29.065 --> 00:19:31.965
<00:19:29.065>But <00:19:29.220>yeah, <00:19:29.376>there's <00:19:29.531>still <00:19:29.687>a <00:19:29.842>lot <00:19:29.998>that <00:19:30.153>people <00:19:30.309>dismiss <00:19:30.465>around

444
00:19:32.555 --> 00:19:34.805
<00:19:32.555>that <00:19:32.788>or <00:19:33.021>select <00:19:33.255>menus <00:19:33.488>or <00:19:33.721>form <00:19:33.955>controls

445
00:19:34.805 --> 00:19:36.165
<00:19:34.805>because <00:19:35.009>they <00:19:35.213>don't <00:19:35.417>quite <00:19:35.621>hit <00:19:35.825>the <00:19:36.029>mark.

446
00:19:36.885 --> 00:19:38.565
<00:19:36.885>I <00:19:37.040>think <00:19:37.196>there's <00:19:37.351>a <00:19:37.507>bit <00:19:37.662>that <00:19:37.818>the <00:19:37.973>web <00:19:38.129>platform <00:19:38.285>needs

447
00:19:38.565 --> 00:19:41.685
<00:19:38.565>to <00:19:38.740>do <00:19:38.915>there <00:19:39.090>to <00:19:39.265>make <00:19:39.440>these <00:19:39.615>elements <00:19:39.790>more <00:19:39.965>composable.

448
00:19:42.285 --> 00:19:44.085
<00:19:42.285>I <00:19:42.751>think <00:19:43.218>customizable <00:19:43.685>Select

449
00:19:44.105 --> 00:19:47.565
<00:19:44.105>or <00:19:44.280>Sable <00:19:44.455>Select <00:19:44.630>that <00:19:44.805>proposal <00:19:44.980>is <00:19:45.155>doing <00:19:45.330>excellent <00:19:45.505>work

450
00:19:47.745 --> 00:19:50.125
<00:19:47.745>to <00:19:47.945>kind <00:19:48.145>of <00:19:48.344>detach <00:19:48.544>all <00:19:48.745>of <00:19:48.945>the <00:19:49.145>parts.

451
00:19:50.185 --> 00:19:52.325
<00:19:50.185>And <00:19:50.340>that's <00:19:50.496>where <00:19:50.651>things <00:19:50.807>like <00:19:50.962>popover <00:19:51.118>have <00:19:51.273>come <00:19:51.429>from, <00:19:51.585>right?

452
00:19:52.465 --> 00:19:55.525
<00:19:52.465>Is, <00:19:52.605>uh, <00:19:52.745>this <00:19:52.885>idea <00:19:53.024>that, <00:19:53.165>you <00:19:53.304>know, <00:19:53.445>what, <00:19:53.584>if <00:19:53.725>you <00:19:53.865>wanted

453
00:19:55.525 --> 00:19:57.925
<00:19:55.525>to <00:19:55.652>build <00:19:55.779>your <00:19:55.906>own <00:19:56.034>select <00:19:56.161>from <00:19:56.288>scratch, <00:19:56.415>how <00:19:56.543>would <00:19:56.670>you <00:19:56.797>do <00:19:56.925>it?

454
00:19:58.115 --> 00:20:00.045
<00:19:58.115>What <00:19:58.315>are <00:19:58.515>all <00:19:58.715>the <00:19:58.915>constituent <00:19:59.115>parts <00:19:59.315>of <00:19:59.515>it?

455
00:20:00.665 --> 00:20:02.765
<00:20:00.665>And <00:20:00.805>so <00:20:00.945>we <00:20:01.085>can <00:20:01.225>offer <00:20:01.365>the <00:20:01.504>primitives <00:20:01.645>at <00:20:01.784>the <00:20:01.925>same <00:20:02.065>time

456
00:20:02.785 --> 00:20:05.485
<00:20:02.785>as <00:20:02.940>offering <00:20:03.096>the, <00:20:03.251>the, <00:20:03.407>the <00:20:03.562>kind <00:20:03.718>of <00:20:03.873>complete <00:20:04.029>solution <00:20:04.185>there.

457
00:20:06.955 --> 00:20:11.455
<00:20:06.955>Um, <00:20:07.082>but <00:20:07.209>yeah, <00:20:07.336>the, <00:20:07.464>there <00:20:07.591>are <00:20:07.718>a <00:20:07.845>lot <00:20:07.973>of <00:20:08.100>cases, <00:20:08.227>I <00:20:08.355>mean,

458
00:20:11.575 --> 00:20:13.855
<00:20:11.575>I <00:20:11.750>said <00:20:11.925>earlier <00:20:12.100>I <00:20:12.275>worked <00:20:12.450>on <00:20:12.625>a <00:20:12.800>design <00:20:12.975>system,

459
00:20:13.855 --> 00:20:16.055
<00:20:13.855>I've <00:20:13.995>worked <00:20:14.135>on <00:20:14.275>a <00:20:14.415>few <00:20:14.555>design <00:20:14.695>systems <00:20:14.835>in <00:20:14.975>the <00:20:15.115>past <00:20:15.255>where

460
00:20:16.885 --> 00:20:21.335
<00:20:16.885>it's <00:20:17.085>very <00:20:17.285>easy <00:20:17.485>to <00:20:17.685>describe <00:20:17.885>the <00:20:18.085>bespoke <00:20:18.285>needs

461
00:20:21.335 --> 00:20:24.695
<00:20:21.335>that <00:20:21.535>this <00:20:21.735>application <00:20:21.935>needs, <00:20:22.135>uh, <00:20:22.335>as <00:20:22.535>a <00:20:22.735>reason

462
00:20:24.755 --> 00:20:27.295
<00:20:24.755>to <00:20:24.930>throw <00:20:25.105>away <00:20:25.280>some <00:20:25.455>of <00:20:25.630>the <00:20:25.805>existing <00:20:25.980>web <00:20:26.155>platform,

463
00:20:27.995 --> 00:20:29.135
<00:20:27.995>uh, <00:20:28.508>primitives <00:20:29.021>there.

464
00:20:29.755 --> 00:20:32.655
<00:20:29.755>Um, <00:20:29.882>but <00:20:30.009>it <00:20:30.136>does <00:20:30.264>do <00:20:30.391>a <00:20:30.518>disservice <00:20:30.645>to <00:20:30.773>our <00:20:30.900>users <00:20:31.027>in, <00:20:31.155>in,

465
00:20:32.715 --> 00:20:35.015
<00:20:32.715>in <00:20:33.064>some <00:20:33.415>cases <00:20:33.764>because, <00:20:34.115>um,

466
00:20:35.995 --> 00:20:38.255
<00:20:35.995>the <00:20:36.274>platform <00:20:36.554>will <00:20:36.834>continue <00:20:37.114>to <00:20:37.395>mature.

467
00:20:38.555 --> 00:20:42.375
<00:20:38.555>And <00:20:38.682>the <00:20:38.809>question <00:20:38.936>is, <00:20:39.064>is <00:20:39.191>it, <00:20:39.318>is <00:20:39.445>it, <00:20:39.573>is <00:20:39.700>your <00:20:39.827>design <00:20:39.955>system,

468
00:20:42.715 --> 00:20:45.455
<00:20:42.715>is <00:20:42.915>your <00:20:43.115>UI <00:20:43.314>maturing <00:20:43.514>at <00:20:43.715>the <00:20:43.915>same <00:20:44.115>pace?

469
00:20:45.595 --> 00:20:49.085
<00:20:45.595>Are <00:20:45.750>you <00:20:45.906>able <00:20:46.061>to <00:20:46.217>pick <00:20:46.372>up <00:20:46.528>all <00:20:46.683>of <00:20:46.839>the <00:20:46.995>complexities

470
00:20:49.105 --> 00:20:54.045
<00:20:49.105>and <00:20:49.338>subtleties <00:20:49.571>that, <00:20:49.805>um, <00:20:50.038>browsers <00:20:50.271>are <00:20:50.505>implementing

471
00:20:54.865 --> 00:20:57.245
<00:20:54.865>all <00:20:55.098>of <00:20:55.331>the <00:20:55.565>accessibility <00:20:55.798>that <00:20:56.031>browsers <00:20:56.265>implement

472
00:20:57.425 --> 00:20:58.485
<00:20:57.425>for <00:20:57.902>these <00:20:58.379>controls?

473
00:20:59.375 --> 00:21:04.315
<00:20:59.375>Uh, <00:20:59.530>you <00:20:59.686>know, <00:20:59.841>form <00:20:59.997>completion, <00:21:00.152>for <00:21:00.308>example, <00:21:00.463>um, <00:21:00.619>is <00:21:00.775>a,

474
00:21:04.315 --> 00:21:06.795
<00:21:04.315>is <00:21:04.470>like <00:21:04.626>a <00:21:04.781>very <00:21:04.937>complex <00:21:05.092>topic <00:21:05.248>that <00:21:05.403>browsers <00:21:05.559>can <00:21:05.715>kind

475
00:21:06.795 --> 00:21:09.435
<00:21:06.795>of <00:21:06.995>handle <00:21:07.195>pretty <00:21:07.395>seamlessly <00:21:07.595>if <00:21:07.795>you <00:21:07.995>let <00:21:08.195>them.

476
00:21:10.175 --> 00:21:14.675
<00:21:10.175>Um, <00:21:10.282>but <00:21:10.390>we <00:21:10.498>see <00:21:10.605>a <00:21:10.713>lot <00:21:10.821>of <00:21:10.928>forms <00:21:11.036>that <00:21:11.144>don't, <00:21:11.251>that <00:21:11.359>are <00:21:11.467>kind <00:21:11.575>of,

477
00:21:15.065 --> 00:21:16.755
<00:21:15.065>because <00:21:15.531>they're <00:21:15.998>hand <00:21:16.465>rolled,

478
00:21:16.755 --> 00:21:18.995
<00:21:16.755>because <00:21:16.988>they've, <00:21:17.221>you <00:21:17.455>know, <00:21:17.688>it's <00:21:17.921>a <00:21:18.155>stack

479
00:21:18.995 --> 00:21:20.475
<00:21:18.995>of <00:21:19.216>dibs <00:21:19.438>pretending <00:21:19.660>to <00:21:19.882>be <00:21:20.105>a <00:21:20.327>form.

480
00:21:21.175 --> 00:21:24.315
<00:21:21.175>Um, <00:21:21.330>we, <00:21:21.486>we <00:21:21.641>start <00:21:21.797>to <00:21:21.952>miss <00:21:22.108>out <00:21:22.263>on <00:21:22.419>these <00:21:22.575>features

481
00:21:25.095 --> 00:21:26.515
<00:21:25.095>and <00:21:25.414>suddenly <00:21:25.734>the <00:21:26.053>web <00:21:26.373>is,

482
00:21:26.775 --> 00:21:28.715
<00:21:26.775>is <00:21:26.930>a <00:21:27.086>bit <00:21:27.241>more <00:21:27.397>broken <00:21:27.552>than <00:21:27.708>it <00:21:27.863>could <00:21:28.019>have <00:21:28.175>been.

483
00:21:29.055 --> 00:21:30.955
<00:21:29.055>So <00:21:29.288>yeah, <00:21:29.521>I <00:21:29.755>think <00:21:29.988>I <00:21:30.221>would <00:21:30.455>love

484
00:21:30.955 --> 00:21:33.995
<00:21:30.955>to <00:21:31.129>see <00:21:31.304>people <00:21:31.480>relying <00:21:31.655>more <00:21:31.830>on <00:21:32.004>the <00:21:32.179>primitives <00:21:32.355>available

485
00:21:34.855 --> 00:21:37.235
<00:21:34.855>and <00:21:35.088>maybe <00:21:35.321>taking <00:21:35.555>some <00:21:35.788>of <00:21:36.021>the <00:21:36.255>compromises

486
00:21:37.335 --> 00:21:40.555
<00:21:37.335>or <00:21:37.490>yeah, <00:21:37.646>working <00:21:37.801>with, <00:21:37.957>uh, <00:21:38.112>browser <00:21:38.268>vendors <00:21:38.423>to <00:21:38.579>fix <00:21:38.735>those.

487
00:21:41.415 --> 00:21:43.835
<00:21:41.415>Um, <00:21:41.570>that <00:21:41.726>would <00:21:41.881>be <00:21:42.037>a <00:21:42.192>great <00:21:42.348>step <00:21:42.503>forward <00:21:42.659>for <00:21:42.815>me.

488
00:21:43.995 --> 00:21:45.875
<00:21:43.995>I, <00:21:44.169>I'm <00:21:44.344>always <00:21:44.520>gonna <00:21:44.695>put <00:21:44.870>my <00:21:45.044>money <00:21:45.219>behind <00:21:45.395>people

489
00:21:45.875 --> 00:21:47.555
<00:21:45.875>that <00:21:46.108>actually <00:21:46.341>turn <00:21:46.575>up <00:21:46.808>to <00:21:47.041>the <00:21:47.275>standards.

490
00:21:48.255 --> 00:21:53.115
<00:21:48.255>Um, <00:21:48.382>uh, <00:21:48.509>I, <00:21:48.636>you <00:21:48.764>know, <00:21:48.891>I <00:21:49.018>see <00:21:49.145>a <00:21:49.273>lot <00:21:49.400>of <00:21:49.527>representation, <00:21:49.655>um,

491
00:21:53.945 --> 00:21:58.715
<00:21:53.945>from <00:21:54.072>folks <00:21:54.199>like <00:21:54.326>Lit, <00:21:54.454>uh, <00:21:54.581>who <00:21:54.708>build <00:21:54.835>like <00:21:54.963>Lit <00:21:55.090>H <00:21:55.217>TM <00:21:55.345>L

492
00:21:58.715 --> 00:22:02.245
<00:21:58.715>and <00:21:58.855>Lit <00:21:58.995>element, <00:21:59.135>uh, <00:21:59.274>they <00:21:59.415>turn <00:21:59.554>up <00:21:59.695>to <00:21:59.834>the <00:21:59.975>standards <00:22:00.115>meetings.

493
00:22:02.245 --> 00:22:05.205
<00:22:02.245>And <00:22:02.445>so <00:22:02.645>to <00:22:02.844>me <00:22:03.044>that's <00:22:03.245>like, <00:22:03.445>that's <00:22:03.645>an,

494
00:22:05.205 --> 00:22:06.485
<00:22:05.205>that's <00:22:05.493>an <00:22:05.781>interesting <00:22:06.069>place, <00:22:06.357>right?

495
00:22:07.925 --> 00:22:10.735
<00:22:07.925>Like, <00:22:08.080>uh, <00:22:08.236>it's, <00:22:08.391>it's <00:22:08.547>maybe <00:22:08.702>often <00:22:08.858>joked <00:22:09.013>that <00:22:09.169>programmers <00:22:09.325>like

496
00:22:10.735 --> 00:22:14.415
<00:22:10.735>to <00:22:10.890>kind <00:22:11.046>of, <00:22:11.201>um, <00:22:11.357>build <00:22:11.512>themselves <00:22:11.668>out <00:22:11.823>of <00:22:11.979>a <00:22:12.135>job.

497
00:22:14.755 --> 00:22:16.495
<00:22:14.755>Uh, <00:22:14.988>I <00:22:15.221>think <00:22:15.455>framework <00:22:15.688>authors <00:22:15.921>should <00:22:16.155>be

498
00:22:16.495 --> 00:22:17.615
<00:22:16.495>especially <00:22:16.746>motivated <00:22:16.999>to <00:22:17.251>do <00:22:17.503>that.

499
00:22:18.085 --> 00:22:19.335
<00:22:18.085>Well, <00:22:18.272>I <00:22:18.460>mean, <00:22:18.647>some <00:22:18.835>of <00:22:19.022>them <00:22:19.210>were,

500
00:22:19.475 --> 00:22:21.575
<00:22:19.475>and <00:22:19.675>it, <00:22:19.875>it <00:22:20.074>kind <00:22:20.274>of <00:22:20.475>never <00:22:20.675>worked <00:22:20.875>out.

501
00:22:21.655 --> 00:22:23.895
<00:22:21.655>I <00:22:21.782>think <00:22:21.909>the <00:22:22.036>only <00:22:22.164>one <00:22:22.291>where <00:22:22.418>I've <00:22:22.545>seen <00:22:22.673>it <00:22:22.800>happening <00:22:22.927>was <00:22:23.055>phone

502
00:22:23.955 --> 00:22:25.735
<00:22:23.955>gap, <00:22:24.235>you <00:22:24.514>know, <00:22:24.794>like <00:22:25.074>that <00:22:25.355>what,

503
00:22:25.755 --> 00:22:27.215
<00:22:25.755>but <00:22:25.942>then <00:22:26.130>that, <00:22:26.318>that <00:22:26.505>was <00:22:26.693>the <00:22:26.881>only <00:22:27.069>one

504
00:22:27.215 --> 00:22:29.655
<00:22:27.215>where <00:22:27.389>then <00:22:27.564>just <00:22:27.740>vanished <00:22:27.915>and <00:22:28.090>nobody <00:22:28.264>needed <00:22:28.439>it <00:22:28.615>anymore.

505
00:22:29.675 --> 00:22:30.815
<00:22:29.675>And <00:22:29.931>that <00:22:30.188>was <00:22:30.444>really <00:22:30.701>wonderful.

506
00:22:30.835 --> 00:22:34.335
<00:22:30.835>It <00:22:30.962>was <00:22:31.089>built <00:22:31.216>in <00:22:31.344>with <00:22:31.471>inbuilt <00:22:31.598>redundancy, <00:22:31.725>so <00:22:31.853>to <00:22:31.980>say, <00:22:32.107>if <00:22:32.235>the,

507
00:22:34.435 --> 00:22:36.935
<00:22:34.435>if <00:22:34.575>it's <00:22:34.715>good <00:22:34.855>enough <00:22:34.995>across <00:22:35.135>browsers <00:22:35.274>to <00:22:35.415>show <00:22:35.554>that, <00:22:35.695>I <00:22:35.835>mean,

508
00:22:36.985 --> 00:22:38.895
<00:22:36.985>today <00:22:37.334>I <00:22:37.685>showed, <00:22:38.034>uh, <00:22:38.385>uh,

509
00:22:39.175 --> 00:22:41.015
<00:22:39.175>required <00:22:39.408>on <00:22:39.641>stage <00:22:39.875>just <00:22:40.108>basically <00:22:40.341>say <00:22:40.575>like,

510
00:22:41.035 --> 00:22:43.135
<00:22:41.035>put <00:22:41.235>a <00:22:41.435>required <00:22:41.635>on <00:22:41.835>an <00:22:42.035>HTML <00:22:42.235>input <00:22:42.435>element,

511
00:22:43.475 --> 00:22:45.815
<00:22:43.475>and <00:22:43.615>then <00:22:43.754>you <00:22:43.895>don't <00:22:44.034>have <00:22:44.175>to <00:22:44.314>write <00:22:44.455>a <00:22:44.594>JavaScript <00:22:44.735>that <00:22:44.875>actually,

512
00:22:46.075 --> 00:22:47.375
<00:22:46.075>uh, <00:22:46.367>filters <00:22:46.660>if <00:22:46.952>it's <00:22:47.245>there.

513
00:22:47.795 --> 00:22:49.935
<00:22:47.795>And <00:22:47.935>the <00:22:48.075>first <00:22:48.215>thing <00:22:48.355>that <00:22:48.495>people <00:22:48.635>then <00:22:48.775>ask <00:22:48.915>me, <00:22:49.055>like, <00:22:49.195>yeah,

514
00:22:49.935 --> 00:22:53.015
<00:22:49.935>well, <00:22:50.090>how <00:22:50.246>can <00:22:50.401>I <00:22:50.557>style <00:22:50.712>that <00:22:50.868>required <00:22:51.023>messaging <00:22:51.179>thing <00:22:51.335>there?

515
00:22:53.035 --> 00:22:54.655
<00:22:53.035>And <00:22:53.235>like, <00:22:53.435>yeah, <00:22:53.635>there's <00:22:53.835>ways <00:22:54.035>to <00:22:54.235>override <00:22:54.435>it,

516
00:22:54.915 --> 00:22:56.415
<00:22:54.915>but <00:22:55.139>then <00:22:55.365>I <00:22:55.590>actually <00:22:55.815>pointed <00:22:56.040>out <00:22:56.264>like,

517
00:22:57.035 --> 00:22:58.335
<00:22:57.035>how <00:22:57.230>do <00:22:57.425>you <00:22:57.620>want <00:22:57.815>to <00:22:58.010>style <00:22:58.205>it?

518
00:22:58.525 --> 00:23:01.335
<00:22:58.525>Like <00:22:58.665>right <00:22:58.805>now <00:22:58.945>it <00:22:59.085>looks <00:22:59.225>different <00:22:59.365>on <00:22:59.505>desktop <00:22:59.645>than <00:22:59.785>it <00:22:59.925>looks

519
00:23:01.335 --> 00:23:04.535
<00:23:01.335>different <00:23:01.510>iOS <00:23:01.685>than <00:23:01.860>it <00:23:02.035>looks <00:23:02.210>different <00:23:02.385>on <00:23:02.560>Android <00:23:02.735>according

520
00:23:04.635 --> 00:23:06.375
<00:23:04.635>to <00:23:04.868>what <00:23:05.101>those <00:23:05.335>people <00:23:05.568>are <00:23:05.801>used <00:23:06.035>to.

521
00:23:06.525 --> 00:23:08.495
<00:23:06.525>Like, <00:23:06.805>people <00:23:07.085>on <00:23:07.365>these <00:23:07.645>platforms <00:23:07.925>expect

522
00:23:08.495 --> 00:23:09.695
<00:23:08.495>something <00:23:08.764>to <00:23:09.034>look <00:23:09.304>like <00:23:09.574>that.

523
00:23:10.235 --> 00:23:12.855
<00:23:10.235>Do <00:23:10.409>you <00:23:10.584>want <00:23:10.760>to, <00:23:10.935>to <00:23:11.110>control <00:23:11.284>this <00:23:11.459>all <00:23:11.635>yourself?

524
00:23:12.855 --> 00:23:15.375
<00:23:12.855>Do <00:23:13.055>you <00:23:13.255>want <00:23:13.455>design <00:23:13.655>these <00:23:13.855>different <00:23:14.055>experiences <00:23:14.255>yourself?

525
00:23:15.435 --> 00:23:17.055
<00:23:15.435>And <00:23:15.635>it's <00:23:15.835>like, <00:23:16.034>I <00:23:16.235>never <00:23:16.435>thought <00:23:16.635>of <00:23:16.835>that,

526
00:23:17.055 --> 00:23:18.375
<00:23:17.055>like <00:23:17.292>just <00:23:17.530>wanted <00:23:17.767>to <00:23:18.005>control <00:23:18.243>it.

527
00:23:18.455 --> 00:23:20.855
<00:23:18.455>I <00:23:18.595>just <00:23:18.735>wanted <00:23:18.875>to <00:23:19.014>make <00:23:19.155>like <00:23:19.294>the <00:23:19.435>perfect <00:23:19.574>solution <00:23:19.715>for <00:23:19.855>it.

528
00:23:21.455 --> 00:23:23.295
<00:23:21.455>I <00:23:21.629>mean, <00:23:21.804>of <00:23:21.980>course <00:23:22.155>there's, <00:23:22.330>there's <00:23:22.504>issues <00:23:22.679>with <00:23:22.855>it.

529
00:23:23.295 --> 00:23:25.695
<00:23:23.295>There's <00:23:23.450>like, <00:23:23.606>you <00:23:23.761>always <00:23:23.917>have <00:23:24.072>to <00:23:24.228>have <00:23:24.383>server <00:23:24.539>side <00:23:24.695>controls.

530
00:23:25.695 --> 00:23:27.455
<00:23:25.695>Well, <00:23:25.928>I <00:23:26.161>mean, <00:23:26.395>my <00:23:26.628>favorite <00:23:26.861>is, <00:23:27.095>uh,

531
00:23:27.635 --> 00:23:30.655
<00:23:27.635>is <00:23:27.762>like <00:23:27.889>when <00:23:28.016>you <00:23:28.144>had <00:23:28.271>length <00:23:28.398>that <00:23:28.525>you <00:23:28.653>can <00:23:28.780>define <00:23:28.907>like <00:23:29.035>the,

532
00:23:30.715 --> 00:23:31.975
<00:23:30.715>the <00:23:30.941>length <00:23:31.168>of <00:23:31.395>an <00:23:31.622>input <00:23:31.849>element

533
00:23:32.395 --> 00:23:34.735
<00:23:32.395>and <00:23:32.570>you <00:23:32.745>cannot <00:23:32.920>type <00:23:33.095>more <00:23:33.270>than <00:23:33.445>in, <00:23:33.620>in <00:23:33.795>it,

534
00:23:34.795 --> 00:23:37.975
<00:23:34.795>but <00:23:34.935>you <00:23:35.075>can <00:23:35.215>use <00:23:35.355>JavaScript <00:23:35.495>to, <00:23:35.635>to <00:23:35.775>inject <00:23:35.915>the <00:23:36.055>longer <00:23:36.195>thing

535
00:23:37.995 --> 00:23:40.495
<00:23:37.995>and <00:23:38.195>it <00:23:38.395>would <00:23:38.594>actually <00:23:38.794>not <00:23:38.995>trigger <00:23:39.195>the <00:23:39.395>validation.

536
00:23:40.515 --> 00:23:41.535
<00:23:40.515>So <00:23:40.698>there's <00:23:40.882>a <00:23:41.065>bug <00:23:41.249>in <00:23:41.433>there,

537
00:23:41.915 --> 00:23:45.645
<00:23:41.915>but <00:23:42.055>I <00:23:42.195>mean <00:23:42.335>that <00:23:42.475>the, <00:23:42.615>the, <00:23:42.754>the, <00:23:42.895>that <00:23:43.034>the, <00:23:43.175>the <00:23:43.315>joy

538
00:23:45.645 --> 00:23:47.925
<00:23:45.645>of <00:23:45.785>people <00:23:45.925>wanting <00:23:46.065>to <00:23:46.205>put <00:23:46.345>things <00:23:46.485>in <00:23:46.625>and <00:23:46.764>wanting <00:23:46.905>to <00:23:47.045>control

539
00:23:47.925 --> 00:23:50.005
<00:23:47.925>and <00:23:48.205>design <00:23:48.485>it <00:23:48.764>themselves, <00:23:49.044>not <00:23:49.325>understanding

540
00:23:50.005 --> 00:23:54.005
<00:23:50.005>that <00:23:50.160>the <00:23:50.316>web <00:23:50.471>can <00:23:50.627>be, <00:23:50.782>uh, <00:23:50.938>consumed <00:23:51.093>in <00:23:51.249>any <00:23:51.405>environment

541
00:23:54.005 --> 00:23:55.205
<00:23:54.005>that <00:23:54.365>you <00:23:54.725>can't <00:23:55.085>control.

542
00:23:55.425 --> 00:23:57.565
<00:23:55.425>And <00:23:55.625>it <00:23:55.825>should, <00:23:56.024>it <00:23:56.225>should <00:23:56.425>actually <00:23:56.625>fit <00:23:56.825>into

543
00:23:57.565 --> 00:23:59.965
<00:23:57.565>that <00:23:57.765>environment <00:23:57.965>rather <00:23:58.165>than <00:23:58.365>try <00:23:58.565>to <00:23:58.765>replace <00:23:58.965>it.

544
00:24:00.465 --> 00:24:03.325
<00:24:00.465>And <00:24:00.592>I <00:24:00.719>found <00:24:00.846>that <00:24:00.974>very, <00:24:01.101>uh, <00:24:01.228>very <00:24:01.355>hard <00:24:01.483>for <00:24:01.610>people <00:24:01.737>to <00:24:01.865>swallow

545
00:24:03.425 --> 00:24:05.165
<00:24:03.425>to <00:24:03.774>like <00:24:04.125>it <00:24:04.475>let <00:24:04.825>go.

546
00:24:05.305 --> 00:24:08.125
<00:24:05.305>You <00:24:05.445>don't <00:24:05.585>need <00:24:05.725>to <00:24:05.865>control <00:24:06.005>it <00:24:06.145>then <00:24:06.285>you're <00:24:06.425>not <00:24:06.565>actually <00:24:06.705>in

547
00:24:08.125 --> 00:24:10.325
<00:24:08.125>charge <00:24:08.300>of <00:24:08.475>it, <00:24:08.650>but <00:24:08.825>people <00:24:09.000>are <00:24:09.175>just <00:24:09.350>like, <00:24:09.525>yeah,

548
00:24:10.325 --> 00:24:11.725
<00:24:10.325>but <00:24:10.505>my <00:24:10.685>boss <00:24:10.865>wants <00:24:11.045>me <00:24:11.225>to <00:24:11.405>style <00:24:11.585>it.

549
00:24:11.745 --> 00:24:14.165
<00:24:11.745>So, <00:24:11.945>uh, <00:24:12.145>it's <00:24:12.344>really <00:24:12.544>painful <00:24:12.745>when <00:24:12.945>you <00:24:13.145>also

550
00:24:14.165 --> 00:24:15.365
<00:24:14.165>set <00:24:14.435>JSX <00:24:14.705>in <00:24:14.975>the <00:24:15.245>browser.

551
00:24:15.545 --> 00:24:18.085
<00:24:15.545>And <00:24:15.672>I, <00:24:15.799>I <00:24:15.926>also <00:24:16.054>hit <00:24:16.181>markdown <00:24:16.308>people <00:24:16.435>wanna <00:24:16.563>have <00:24:16.690>in <00:24:16.817>the <00:24:16.945>browser,

552
00:24:18.085 --> 00:24:21.045
<00:24:18.085>and <00:24:18.225>I'm <00:24:18.365>like, <00:24:18.505>okay, <00:24:18.645>which <00:24:18.785>of <00:24:18.925>the <00:24:19.065>15 <00:24:19.205>markdown <00:24:19.345>standards <00:24:19.485>you

553
00:24:21.045 --> 00:24:22.965
<00:24:21.045>want <00:24:21.395>to <00:24:21.745>have, <00:24:22.095>like, <00:24:22.445>uh,

554
00:24:23.275 --> 00:24:26.005
<00:24:23.275>take <00:24:23.415>query <00:24:23.555>And <00:24:23.695>the <00:24:23.835>browser <00:24:23.975>was <00:24:24.115>also <00:24:24.255>a <00:24:24.395>request <00:24:24.535>back <00:24:24.675>then.

555
00:24:26.225 --> 00:24:28.885
<00:24:26.225>And, <00:24:26.425>uh, <00:24:26.625>uh, <00:24:26.824>yeah, <00:24:27.024>all <00:24:27.225>kind <00:24:27.425>of <00:24:27.625>stuff.

556
00:24:28.885 --> 00:24:30.965
<00:24:28.885>So <00:24:29.025>it's <00:24:29.165>like, <00:24:29.305>yeah, <00:24:29.445>the <00:24:29.585>standards <00:24:29.725>are <00:24:29.865>there <00:24:30.004>for <00:24:30.145>a <00:24:30.285>reason

557
00:24:30.985 --> 00:24:33.045
<00:24:30.985>and <00:24:31.185>they <00:24:31.385>take <00:24:31.584>a <00:24:31.784>long <00:24:31.985>time <00:24:32.185>to <00:24:32.385>standardize

558
00:24:33.045 --> 00:24:35.285
<00:24:33.045>because <00:24:33.220>they <00:24:33.395>have <00:24:33.570>to <00:24:33.745>think <00:24:33.920>of <00:24:34.095>lots <00:24:34.270>of <00:24:34.445>contingencies

559
00:24:35.515 --> 00:24:36.565
<00:24:35.515>that <00:24:35.751>you <00:24:35.987>haven't <00:24:36.223>thought <00:24:36.460>of.

560
00:24:37.265 --> 00:24:39.045
<00:24:37.265>Now, <00:24:37.498>one <00:24:37.731>thing <00:24:37.965>that <00:24:38.198>I <00:24:38.431>found, <00:24:38.665>uh,

561
00:24:39.045 --> 00:24:42.045
<00:24:39.045>wondering <00:24:39.278>about <00:24:39.511>React <00:24:39.745>is <00:24:39.978>like, <00:24:40.211>uh, <00:24:40.445>it

562
00:24:42.045 --> 00:24:43.245
<00:24:42.045>that's <00:24:42.315>React <00:24:42.585>and <00:24:42.855>React <00:24:43.125>native.

563
00:24:43.345 --> 00:24:44.605
<00:24:43.345>So <00:24:43.534>the, <00:24:43.723>the <00:24:43.912>idea <00:24:44.101>of <00:24:44.290>a <00:24:44.479>lot

564
00:24:44.605 --> 00:24:46.565
<00:24:44.605>of <00:24:44.745>these <00:24:44.885>frameworks <00:24:45.025>is <00:24:45.165>you <00:24:45.305>can <00:24:45.445>build <00:24:45.585>something <00:24:45.725>for <00:24:45.865>the <00:24:46.005>web,

565
00:24:46.785 --> 00:24:49.925
<00:24:46.785>but <00:24:46.940>also <00:24:47.096>native <00:24:47.251>platform, <00:24:47.407>uh, <00:24:47.562>uh, <00:24:47.718>native <00:24:47.873>apps <00:24:48.029>with <00:24:48.185>it.

566
00:24:50.385 --> 00:24:53.885
<00:24:50.385>So <00:24:50.540>they <00:24:50.696>see <00:24:50.851>HTML <00:24:51.007>as <00:24:51.162>a, <00:24:51.318>as <00:24:51.473>a <00:24:51.629>compilation <00:24:51.785>target.

567
00:24:54.705 --> 00:24:56.685
<00:24:54.705>Um, <00:24:54.985>do <00:24:55.264>you <00:24:55.544>think <00:24:55.824>that's <00:24:56.105>something

568
00:24:56.685 --> 00:24:58.085
<00:24:56.685>that <00:24:57.105>people <00:24:57.525>really <00:24:57.945>believe,

569
00:24:58.105 --> 00:25:00.525
<00:24:58.105>or <00:24:58.280>do <00:24:58.455>you <00:24:58.630>think <00:24:58.805>that's <00:24:58.980>something <00:24:59.155>that's <00:24:59.330>just, <00:24:59.505>yeah,

570
00:25:00.525 --> 00:25:02.325
<00:25:00.525>it's <00:25:00.680>a <00:25:00.836>nice <00:25:00.991>to <00:25:01.147>have, <00:25:01.302>but <00:25:01.458>it <00:25:01.613>gives <00:25:01.769>a <00:25:01.925>bad

571
00:25:02.775 --> 00:25:04.405
<00:25:02.775>experience <00:25:03.241>on <00:25:03.708>all <00:25:04.175>platforms?

572
00:25:05.185 --> 00:25:07.075
<00:25:05.185>Yeah, <00:25:05.418>I <00:25:05.651>haven't <00:25:05.885>really <00:25:06.118>seen <00:25:06.351>like <00:25:06.585>a,

573
00:25:07.275 --> 00:25:09.275
<00:25:07.275>a <00:25:07.508>particularly <00:25:07.741>compelling <00:25:07.975>use <00:25:08.208>case <00:25:08.441>for <00:25:08.675>this.

574
00:25:09.655 --> 00:25:11.035
<00:25:09.655>You <00:25:09.965>know, <00:25:10.276>I <00:25:10.586>haven't <00:25:10.897>spent

575
00:25:11.035 --> 00:25:12.515
<00:25:11.035>that <00:25:11.257>much <00:25:11.479>time <00:25:11.701>in <00:25:11.923>the <00:25:12.145>mobile <00:25:12.367>space.

576
00:25:12.735 --> 00:25:15.835
<00:25:12.735>Um, <00:25:12.851>but <00:25:12.968>I <00:25:13.084>have <00:25:13.201>quite <00:25:13.318>a <00:25:13.435>few, <00:25:13.551>uh, <00:25:13.668>friends <00:25:13.784>and <00:25:13.901>peers <00:25:14.018>who <00:25:14.135>do,

577
00:25:16.855 --> 00:25:19.755
<00:25:16.855>and <00:25:16.962>a <00:25:17.070>lot <00:25:17.178>of <00:25:17.285>the <00:25:17.393>time <00:25:17.501>it's <00:25:17.608>either <00:25:17.716>native <00:25:17.824>or <00:25:17.931>it's <00:25:18.039>a <00:25:18.147>web <00:25:18.255>view.

578
00:25:20.435 --> 00:25:23.415
<00:25:20.435>Um, <00:25:20.590>I, <00:25:20.746>I <00:25:20.901>can't <00:25:21.057>see <00:25:21.212>where <00:25:21.368>the <00:25:21.523>value <00:25:21.679>add <00:25:21.835>is

579
00:25:23.415 --> 00:25:25.855
<00:25:23.415>for <00:25:23.695>something <00:25:23.975>like <00:25:24.254>React <00:25:24.534>Native, <00:25:24.815>um,

580
00:25:26.155 --> 00:25:29.015
<00:25:26.155>but <00:25:26.282>I'm <00:25:26.409>sure <00:25:26.536>there <00:25:26.664>are <00:25:26.791>a <00:25:26.918>lot <00:25:27.045>of <00:25:27.173>people <00:25:27.300>building <00:25:27.427>with <00:25:27.555>it

581
00:25:29.035 --> 00:25:30.215
<00:25:29.035>and <00:25:29.247>doing <00:25:29.459>great <00:25:29.672>stuff <00:25:29.884>with <00:25:30.097>it.

582
00:25:30.355 --> 00:25:32.175
<00:25:30.355>But <00:25:30.635>if <00:25:30.915>you're <00:25:31.195>not <00:25:31.475>building <00:25:31.755>native

583
00:25:32.395 --> 00:25:35.895
<00:25:32.395>and <00:25:32.570>you're <00:25:32.745>not <00:25:32.920>building <00:25:33.095>for <00:25:33.270>the <00:25:33.445>web, <00:25:33.620>like <00:25:33.795>what,

584
00:25:35.895 --> 00:25:37.175
<00:25:35.895>what <00:25:36.125>is <00:25:36.355>the <00:25:36.586>point <00:25:36.816>I <00:25:37.047>guess?

585
00:25:37.635 --> 00:25:39.895
<00:25:37.635>Um, <00:25:38.101>you <00:25:38.568>know, <00:25:39.035>uh,

586
00:25:39.995 --> 00:25:42.415
<00:25:39.995>you're <00:25:40.195>accepting <00:25:40.395>this <00:25:40.594>halfway <00:25:40.794>ground <00:25:40.995>between <00:25:41.195>the <00:25:41.395>two.

587
00:25:42.835 --> 00:25:47.775
<00:25:42.835>Um, <00:25:43.035>I've <00:25:43.235>never <00:25:43.435>personally <00:25:43.635>seen <00:25:43.835>a <00:25:44.035>successful <00:25:44.235>application

588
00:25:48.085 --> 00:25:50.095
<00:25:48.085>that <00:25:48.551>leverages <00:25:49.018>the <00:25:49.485>idea

589
00:25:50.115 --> 00:25:53.495
<00:25:50.115>of <00:25:50.255>React <00:25:50.395>native <00:25:50.535>appearing <00:25:50.675>on <00:25:50.815>both <00:25:50.955>a <00:25:51.095>web <00:25:51.235>and <00:25:51.375>on <00:25:51.515>mobile.

590
00:25:54.475 --> 00:25:57.895
<00:25:54.475>Uh, <00:25:54.582>like <00:25:54.690>I <00:25:54.798>say, <00:25:54.905>a <00:25:55.013>web <00:25:55.121>view <00:25:55.228>is <00:25:55.336>just <00:25:55.444>so <00:25:55.551>easy <00:25:55.659>to <00:25:55.767>put <00:25:55.875>together.

591
00:25:58.715 --> 00:26:01.015
<00:25:58.715>Um, <00:25:58.948>and <00:25:59.181>you <00:25:59.415>can <00:25:59.648>just <00:25:59.881>render <00:26:00.115>HTML

592
00:26:01.735 --> 00:26:03.875
<00:26:01.735>and <00:26:01.890>you <00:26:02.046>might <00:26:02.201>be <00:26:02.357>using <00:26:02.512>React <00:26:02.668>behind <00:26:02.823>the <00:26:02.979>scenes <00:26:03.135>there,

593
00:26:03.895 --> 00:26:05.795
<00:26:03.895>but <00:26:04.175>that's <00:26:04.455>not <00:26:04.735>React <00:26:05.014>native, <00:26:05.295>right?

594
00:26:05.795 --> 00:26:08.075
<00:26:05.795>That's <00:26:06.075>just <00:26:06.355>like <00:26:06.635>react <00:26:06.915>outputting <00:26:07.195>HTML.

595
00:26:08.665 --> 00:26:10.915
<00:26:08.665>Well, <00:26:08.820>what <00:26:08.976>drives <00:26:09.131>me <00:26:09.287>bonkers <00:26:09.442>is <00:26:09.598>when <00:26:09.753>people <00:26:09.909>build <00:26:10.065>apps

596
00:26:10.915 --> 00:26:14.515
<00:26:10.915>and <00:26:11.090>use <00:26:11.264>their <00:26:11.440>own <00:26:11.615>internal <00:26:11.790>browsers <00:26:11.965>to <00:26:12.139>basically <00:26:12.315>to,

597
00:26:14.535 --> 00:26:16.355
<00:26:14.535>to <00:26:14.768>have <00:26:15.001>control <00:26:15.235>over <00:26:15.468>all <00:26:15.701>the <00:26:15.935>data.

598
00:26:16.815 --> 00:26:18.515
<00:26:16.815>And <00:26:17.165>it's <00:26:17.515>normally <00:26:17.865>like <00:26:18.215>a,

599
00:26:18.595 --> 00:26:21.755
<00:26:18.595>a <00:26:18.795>15 <00:26:18.995>generation <00:26:19.195>outdated <00:26:19.395>chromium <00:26:19.595>somewhere <00:26:19.795>in <00:26:19.995>there.

600
00:26:22.175 --> 00:26:26.355
<00:26:22.175>And <00:26:22.315>more <00:26:22.455>annoyingly, <00:26:22.595>I'm <00:26:22.735>happy <00:26:22.875>to, <00:26:23.014>to <00:26:23.155>to <00:26:23.294>store <00:26:23.435>my <00:26:23.575>passwords

601
00:26:26.375 --> 00:26:29.635
<00:26:26.375>and <00:26:26.550>uh, <00:26:26.725>and <00:26:26.900>information <00:26:27.075>and <00:26:27.250>autofill <00:26:27.425>in <00:26:27.600>my <00:26:27.775>browser.

602
00:26:29.895 --> 00:26:32.795
<00:26:29.895>But <00:26:30.050>every <00:26:30.206>time <00:26:30.361>I <00:26:30.517>go <00:26:30.672>from <00:26:30.828>Facebook <00:26:30.983>to <00:26:31.139>a <00:26:31.295>website,

603
00:26:33.015 --> 00:26:34.275
<00:26:33.015>it <00:26:33.241>opens <00:26:33.468>in <00:26:33.695>the <00:26:33.922>Facebook <00:26:34.149>browser

604
00:26:34.275 --> 00:26:35.475
<00:26:34.275>and <00:26:34.491>none <00:26:34.707>of <00:26:34.923>the <00:26:35.139>autofill <00:26:35.355>works

605
00:26:35.715 --> 00:26:36.875
<00:26:35.715>'cause <00:26:35.889>it's <00:26:36.062>all <00:26:36.236>in <00:26:36.411>my <00:26:36.585>Edge <00:26:36.759>browser.

606
00:26:37.615 --> 00:26:39.315
<00:26:37.615>And <00:26:37.965>it's <00:26:38.315>just <00:26:38.665>like, <00:26:39.015>this,

607
00:26:39.345 --> 00:26:41.955
<00:26:39.345>this <00:26:39.545>extra <00:26:39.745>control <00:26:39.945>is <00:26:40.145>just <00:26:40.345>driving <00:26:40.545>me <00:26:40.745>nuts.

608
00:26:41.975 --> 00:26:44.405
<00:26:41.975>And <00:26:42.130>it <00:26:42.286>seems <00:26:42.441>like <00:26:42.597>a <00:26:42.752>lot <00:26:42.908>of <00:26:43.063>people <00:26:43.219>were <00:26:43.375>happy

609
00:26:44.425 --> 00:26:46.805
<00:26:44.425>to <00:26:44.600>include <00:26:44.774>their <00:26:44.950>own <00:26:45.125>browser <00:26:45.300>with <00:26:45.475>their <00:26:45.649>app <00:26:45.825>just

610
00:26:46.985 --> 00:26:48.845
<00:26:46.985>so <00:26:47.264>they <00:26:47.544>can <00:26:47.824>spy <00:26:48.104>on <00:26:48.385>you.

611
00:26:49.005 --> 00:26:50.245
<00:26:49.005>I, <00:26:49.164>I <00:26:49.323>don't <00:26:49.483>know <00:26:49.642>why <00:26:49.802>they <00:26:49.961>do <00:26:50.120>it,

612
00:26:50.305 --> 00:26:53.205
<00:26:50.305>but <00:26:50.445>it <00:26:50.585>feels <00:26:50.725>like <00:26:50.865>that's <00:26:51.005>a, <00:26:51.145>that's <00:26:51.285>a <00:26:51.425>pattern <00:26:51.565>that <00:26:51.705>needs

613
00:26:53.205 --> 00:26:54.965
<00:26:53.205>to <00:26:53.405>be <00:26:53.605>broken <00:26:53.804>to <00:26:54.004>a <00:26:54.205>degree <00:26:54.405>as <00:26:54.605>well,

614
00:26:54.965 --> 00:26:57.205
<00:26:54.965>because <00:26:55.120>like <00:26:55.276>there <00:26:55.431>is <00:26:55.587>a <00:26:55.742>browser <00:26:55.898>on <00:26:56.053>the <00:26:56.209>operating <00:26:56.365>system

615
00:26:57.205 --> 00:27:00.845
<00:26:57.205>that <00:26:57.379>the <00:26:57.554>user <00:26:57.730>chose <00:26:57.905>that's <00:26:58.080>probably, <00:26:58.254>it's <00:26:58.429>far <00:26:58.605>easier

616
00:27:00.905 --> 00:27:03.165
<00:27:00.905>for <00:27:01.105>them <00:27:01.305>to <00:27:01.504>order <00:27:01.705>something <00:27:01.905>on <00:27:02.105>your <00:27:02.305>website

617
00:27:03.165 --> 00:27:05.205
<00:27:03.165>because <00:27:03.398>all <00:27:03.631>that <00:27:03.865>data <00:27:04.098>is <00:27:04.331>being <00:27:04.565>prefilled,

618
00:27:05.785 --> 00:27:07.045
<00:27:05.785>but <00:27:06.011>people <00:27:06.238>are <00:27:06.465>still <00:27:06.692>like, <00:27:06.919>oh,

619
00:27:07.225 --> 00:27:08.965
<00:27:07.225>why <00:27:07.425>don't <00:27:07.625>you <00:27:07.824>enter <00:27:08.024>that <00:27:08.225>data <00:27:08.425>here <00:27:08.625>again?

620
00:27:08.965 --> 00:27:10.405
<00:27:08.965>You're <00:27:09.150>like, <00:27:09.335>no, <00:27:09.520>I <00:27:09.705>I <00:27:09.890>don't <00:27:10.075>want <00:27:10.261>it.

621
00:27:11.715 --> 00:27:13.085
<00:27:11.715>Yeah. <00:27:11.961>Yeah. <00:27:12.208>It's <00:27:12.454>kind <00:27:12.701>of <00:27:12.948>wild.

622
00:27:13.645 --> 00:27:17.845
<00:27:13.645>I <00:27:13.761>it <00:27:13.878>the, <00:27:13.995>the <00:27:14.111>dream <00:27:14.228>of, <00:27:14.345>of <00:27:14.461>PWAs <00:27:14.578>that <00:27:14.695>was <00:27:14.811>sold <00:27:14.928>to <00:27:15.045>us.

623
00:27:18.125 --> 00:27:21.765
<00:27:18.125>I <00:27:18.325>think, <00:27:18.525>um, <00:27:18.725>you <00:27:18.925>know, <00:27:19.125>there, <00:27:19.325>there's <00:27:19.525>a,

624
00:27:21.765 --> 00:27:25.885
<00:27:21.765>there's <00:27:21.920>a <00:27:22.076>narrative <00:27:22.231>there <00:27:22.387>that <00:27:22.542>like <00:27:22.698>the <00:27:22.853>kind <00:27:23.009>of <00:27:23.165>arbiters

625
00:27:25.885 --> 00:27:29.045
<00:27:25.885>of <00:27:26.060>these, <00:27:26.235>uh, <00:27:26.410>platforms <00:27:26.585>have, <00:27:26.760>have <00:27:26.935>kind <00:27:27.110>of <00:27:27.285>tried

626
00:27:29.045 --> 00:27:30.205
<00:27:29.045>to <00:27:29.306>prevent <00:27:29.567>that <00:27:29.828>from <00:27:30.089>happening.

627
00:27:30.655 --> 00:27:31.845
<00:27:30.655>Maybe <00:27:30.922>there's <00:27:31.190>some <00:27:31.458>truth <00:27:31.726>there.

628
00:27:32.545 --> 00:27:36.885
<00:27:32.545>Um, <00:27:32.685>but <00:27:32.825>yeah, <00:27:32.965>I, <00:27:33.105>I, <00:27:33.245>I <00:27:33.385>kind <00:27:33.525>of <00:27:33.665>yearn <00:27:33.805>for <00:27:33.945>the

629
00:27:37.795 --> 00:27:41.805
<00:27:37.795>idea <00:27:37.922>that <00:27:38.049>was <00:27:38.176>sold <00:27:38.304>in <00:27:38.431>like, <00:27:38.558>I <00:27:38.685>don't <00:27:38.813>know, <00:27:38.940>the <00:27:39.067>20 <00:27:39.195>fifteens

630
00:27:41.805 --> 00:27:44.605
<00:27:41.805>that <00:27:41.945>we <00:27:42.085>could <00:27:42.225>just <00:27:42.365>have <00:27:42.505>these <00:27:42.645>web <00:27:42.785>apps <00:27:42.925>installed <00:27:43.065>on <00:27:43.205>our

631
00:27:44.605 --> 00:27:47.965
<00:27:44.605>phone <00:27:44.745>and <00:27:44.885>they <00:27:45.025>would <00:27:45.165>all <00:27:45.305>just <00:27:45.445>use, <00:27:45.585>uh, <00:27:45.725>the <00:27:45.865>builtin <00:27:46.005>browser,

632
00:27:48.315 --> 00:27:50.525
<00:27:48.315>like <00:27:48.490>whatever <00:27:48.665>or <00:27:48.840>whatever <00:27:49.015>browser <00:27:49.190>we <00:27:49.365>wanted <00:27:49.540>to <00:27:49.715>pick.

633
00:27:51.185 --> 00:27:54.145
<00:27:51.185>Um, <00:27:51.360>and <00:27:51.534>they <00:27:51.710>would <00:27:51.885>just <00:27:52.060>operate <00:27:52.235>like <00:27:52.409>native <00:27:52.585>apps.

634
00:27:54.165 --> 00:27:56.545
<00:27:54.165>But <00:27:54.305>yeah, <00:27:54.445>we've, <00:27:54.585>we've <00:27:54.725>kind <00:27:54.865>of <00:27:55.004>stepped <00:27:55.145>far <00:27:55.284>away <00:27:55.425>from <00:27:55.565>there,

635
00:27:56.745 --> 00:27:58.745
<00:27:56.745>I <00:27:56.978>feel, <00:27:57.211>um, <00:27:57.445>which <00:27:57.678>is <00:27:57.911>a <00:27:58.145>shame.

636
00:27:59.715 --> 00:28:02.455
<00:27:59.715>One <00:27:59.855>big <00:27:59.995>discussion <00:28:00.135>was <00:28:00.274>late, <00:28:00.415>that <00:28:00.554>was <00:28:00.695>lately <00:28:00.834>a <00:28:00.975>big <00:28:01.115>drama,

637
00:28:02.515 --> 00:28:04.015
<00:28:02.515>and <00:28:02.707>I <00:28:02.900>was <00:28:03.093>on <00:28:03.286>vacation, <00:28:03.479>so <00:28:03.672>I'm <00:28:03.865>happy

638
00:28:04.135 --> 00:28:05.175
<00:28:04.135>I <00:28:04.322>didn't <00:28:04.509>follow <00:28:04.696>all <00:28:04.883>of <00:28:05.071>it.

639
00:28:05.475 --> 00:28:07.175
<00:28:05.475>Was <00:28:05.708>the <00:28:05.941>whole <00:28:06.175>like, <00:28:06.408>uh, <00:28:06.641>uh, <00:28:06.875>uh,

640
00:28:07.315 --> 00:28:08.895
<00:28:07.315>web <00:28:07.595>components <00:28:07.875>are <00:28:08.155>not <00:28:08.435>good <00:28:08.715>enough

641
00:28:08.915 --> 00:28:11.255
<00:28:08.915>and <00:28:09.115>native <00:28:09.315>components <00:28:09.514>solve <00:28:09.715>all <00:28:09.915>the <00:28:10.115>other <00:28:10.315>problems.

642
00:28:11.395 --> 00:28:15.215
<00:28:11.395>So <00:28:11.522>where <00:28:11.649>do <00:28:11.776>you <00:28:11.904>think <00:28:12.031>we <00:28:12.158>are <00:28:12.285>on <00:28:12.413>that, <00:28:12.540>in <00:28:12.667>that <00:28:12.795>regard?

643
00:28:15.575 --> 00:28:17.615
<00:28:15.575>I <00:28:15.775>think <00:28:15.975>that <00:28:16.175>that <00:28:16.375>was <00:28:16.575>just <00:28:16.775>really <00:28:16.975>bizarre.

644
00:28:17.615 --> 00:28:19.095
<00:28:17.615>It <00:28:17.805>seems <00:28:17.995>like <00:28:18.185>there's <00:28:18.376>a <00:28:18.566>lot <00:28:18.756>of <00:28:18.947>developers

645
00:28:19.095 --> 00:28:20.775
<00:28:19.095>that <00:28:19.375>actually <00:28:19.655>started <00:28:19.935>a <00:28:20.215>component <00:28:20.495>world

646
00:28:20.885 --> 00:28:23.575
<00:28:20.885>because <00:28:21.060>they <00:28:21.235>came <00:28:21.410>from, <00:28:21.585>I <00:28:21.760>don't <00:28:21.935>know, <00:28:22.110>native <00:28:22.285>development

647
00:28:23.635 --> 00:28:26.415
<00:28:23.635>and <00:28:23.790>actually <00:28:23.946>think <00:28:24.101>the <00:28:24.257>web <00:28:24.412>is <00:28:24.568>a <00:28:24.723>componentized <00:28:24.879>thing <00:28:25.035>rather

648
00:28:26.415 --> 00:28:29.935
<00:28:26.415>than <00:28:26.648>a <00:28:26.881>page <00:28:27.115>level, <00:28:27.348>uh, <00:28:27.581>uh, <00:28:27.815>paradigm.

649
00:28:29.995 --> 00:28:33.215
<00:28:29.995>But <00:28:30.135>it <00:28:30.274>seems <00:28:30.415>we, <00:28:30.554>we <00:28:30.695>have <00:28:30.834>to <00:28:30.975>make <00:28:31.114>those <00:28:31.254>people <00:28:31.395>happy,

650
00:28:33.995 --> 00:28:36.895
<00:28:33.995>but <00:28:34.150>at <00:28:34.306>the <00:28:34.461>same <00:28:34.617>time, <00:28:34.772>what <00:28:34.928>did <00:28:35.083>what <00:28:35.239>we <00:28:35.395>did

651
00:28:36.895 --> 00:28:38.295
<00:28:36.895>with <00:28:37.105>web <00:28:37.315>components <00:28:37.525>is <00:28:37.735>not <00:28:37.945>good <00:28:38.155>enough,

652
00:28:38.395 --> 00:28:41.135
<00:28:38.395>and <00:28:38.570>I <00:28:38.745>still <00:28:38.920>don't <00:28:39.095>understand <00:28:39.270>what <00:28:39.445>the <00:28:39.620>problem <00:28:39.795>was.

653
00:28:41.445 --> 00:28:43.815
<00:28:41.445>Yeah, <00:28:41.678>I <00:28:41.911>think <00:28:42.145>there's, <00:28:42.378>um, <00:28:42.611>a <00:28:42.845>lot

654
00:28:43.815 --> 00:28:45.335
<00:28:43.815>of <00:28:44.157>complexity <00:28:44.499>in <00:28:44.841>web <00:28:45.183>components.

655
00:28:45.615 --> 00:28:49.375
<00:28:45.615>I <00:28:45.770>think <00:28:45.926>that <00:28:46.081>they, <00:28:46.237>um, <00:28:46.392>they, <00:28:46.548>they <00:28:46.703>do <00:28:46.859>change <00:28:47.015>some

656
00:28:49.375 --> 00:28:50.695
<00:28:49.375>of <00:28:49.771>the <00:28:50.167>existing <00:28:50.562>paradigms,

657
00:28:50.695 --> 00:28:52.815
<00:28:50.695>which <00:28:50.895>does <00:28:51.095>make <00:28:51.294>things <00:28:51.495>a <00:28:51.695>little <00:28:51.895>more <00:28:52.095>awkward.

658
00:28:52.845 --> 00:28:57.765
<00:28:52.845>Like <00:28:53.045>shadow <00:28:53.245>dom <00:28:53.445>is <00:28:53.645>a <00:28:53.845>departure <00:28:54.045>from, <00:28:54.245>uh,

659
00:28:59.475 --> 00:29:02.605
<00:28:59.475>just <00:28:59.649>regular <00:28:59.824>HTML, <00:29:00.000>I <00:29:00.175>guess, <00:29:00.350>uh, <00:29:00.524>or <00:29:00.699>light <00:29:00.875>dom.

660
00:29:03.305 --> 00:29:05.925
<00:29:03.305>Um, <00:29:03.480>there, <00:29:03.655>there's <00:29:03.830>some <00:29:04.005>learning <00:29:04.180>curves <00:29:04.355>there, <00:29:04.530>you <00:29:04.705>know?

661
00:29:06.345 --> 00:29:09.925
<00:29:06.345>Um, <00:29:06.472>so <00:29:06.599>like <00:29:06.726>the <00:29:06.854>web <00:29:06.981>platform <00:29:07.108>isn't <00:29:07.235>immune <00:29:07.363>to <00:29:07.490>this, <00:29:07.617>this <00:29:07.745>kind

662
00:29:09.925 --> 00:29:12.805
<00:29:09.925>of <00:29:10.100>shifting <00:29:10.274>of, <00:29:10.450>of <00:29:10.625>the <00:29:10.800>tectonic <00:29:10.975>layers <00:29:11.149>either, <00:29:11.325>right?

663
00:29:13.155 --> 00:29:16.085
<00:29:13.155>Yeah. <00:29:13.310>The, <00:29:13.466>the <00:29:13.621>drama <00:29:13.777>was <00:29:13.932>around <00:29:14.088>this <00:29:14.243>idea <00:29:14.399>that, <00:29:14.555>um,

664
00:29:16.905 --> 00:29:19.485
<00:29:16.905>web <00:29:17.138>components <00:29:17.371>are <00:29:17.605>this <00:29:17.838>kind <00:29:18.071>of <00:29:18.305>exclusive

665
00:29:19.485 --> 00:29:23.085
<00:29:19.485>or <00:29:19.685>in <00:29:19.885>isolation <00:29:20.084>tax <00:29:20.284>on, <00:29:20.485>on <00:29:20.685>framework <00:29:20.885>authors.

666
00:29:23.345 --> 00:29:25.805
<00:29:23.345>Um, <00:29:23.520>I <00:29:23.695>don't <00:29:23.870>know <00:29:24.045>personally, <00:29:24.220>I <00:29:24.395>don't <00:29:24.570>buy <00:29:24.745>it.

667
00:29:25.885 --> 00:29:28.885
<00:29:25.885>I <00:29:26.060>I <00:29:26.235>understand <00:29:26.410>the <00:29:26.585>points <00:29:26.760>that <00:29:26.935>were <00:29:27.110>being <00:29:27.285>made,

668
00:29:28.985 --> 00:29:32.205
<00:29:28.985>but <00:29:29.140>to <00:29:29.296>me <00:29:29.451>it's <00:29:29.607>like <00:29:29.762>they <00:29:29.918>are <00:29:30.073>an <00:29:30.229>intrinsic <00:29:30.385>part

669
00:29:32.205 --> 00:29:34.645
<00:29:32.205>of <00:29:32.360>the <00:29:32.516>platform <00:29:32.671>and <00:29:32.827>they're <00:29:32.982>not <00:29:33.138>going <00:29:33.293>away <00:29:33.449>anytime <00:29:33.605>soon.

670
00:29:35.025 --> 00:29:36.525
<00:29:35.025>Um, <00:29:35.295>people <00:29:35.565>find <00:29:35.835>use <00:29:36.105>for <00:29:36.375>them.

671
00:29:37.385 --> 00:29:40.405
<00:29:37.385>Um, <00:29:37.665>but <00:29:37.945>like <00:29:38.225>everything, <00:29:38.504>you <00:29:38.785>know,

672
00:29:40.965 --> 00:29:43.205
<00:29:40.965>a <00:29:41.198>a <00:29:41.431>framework's <00:29:41.665>job <00:29:41.898>seems <00:29:42.131>to <00:29:42.365>be

673
00:29:43.205 --> 00:29:45.205
<00:29:43.205>to <00:29:43.485>make <00:29:43.764>the <00:29:44.044>developer's <00:29:44.324>life <00:29:44.605>easier.

674
00:29:46.205 --> 00:29:49.205
<00:29:46.205>I <00:29:46.345>don't <00:29:46.485>see <00:29:46.625>how <00:29:46.764>taking <00:29:46.905>a <00:29:47.044>particular <00:29:47.185>stance <00:29:47.324>on <00:29:47.465>one <00:29:47.605>particular

675
00:29:49.805 --> 00:29:51.925
<00:29:49.805>platform <00:29:50.155>technology <00:29:50.505>over <00:29:50.855>another, <00:29:51.205>um,

676
00:29:52.535 --> 00:29:54.285
<00:29:52.535>makes <00:29:53.001>developers' <00:29:53.468>lives <00:29:53.935>easier.

677
00:29:55.035 --> 00:29:58.645
<00:29:55.035>Like, <00:29:55.268>I <00:29:55.501>don't <00:29:55.735>want <00:29:55.968>my <00:29:56.201>framework <00:29:56.435>having

678
00:29:58.765 --> 00:30:00.445
<00:29:58.765>opinions <00:29:59.465>about <00:30:00.165>fetch.

679
00:30:00.725 --> 00:30:04.045
<00:30:00.725>I <00:30:00.865>don't <00:30:01.004>want <00:30:01.145>my <00:30:01.284>framework <00:30:01.425>having <00:30:01.564>opinions <00:30:01.705>about <00:30:01.844>BF <00:30:01.985>c <00:30:02.125>why

680
00:30:04.045 --> 00:30:06.125
<00:30:04.045>would <00:30:04.220>I <00:30:04.395>want <00:30:04.570>my <00:30:04.745>framework <00:30:04.920>having <00:30:05.095>opinions <00:30:05.270>about <00:30:05.445>web

681
00:30:06.125 --> 00:30:08.685
<00:30:06.125>components, <00:30:06.280>maybe <00:30:06.436>they're <00:30:06.591>a <00:30:06.747>bit <00:30:06.902>of <00:30:07.058>a <00:30:07.213>straw <00:30:07.369>man, <00:30:07.525>or,

682
00:30:08.685 --> 00:30:10.205
<00:30:08.685>or <00:30:08.913>at <00:30:09.140>least <00:30:09.369>a, <00:30:09.597>a <00:30:09.824>punching <00:30:10.053>bag.

683
00:30:11.155 --> 00:30:15.515
<00:30:11.155>Um, <00:30:11.271>but <00:30:11.388>yeah, <00:30:11.504>you <00:30:11.621>know, <00:30:11.738>I <00:30:11.855>did <00:30:11.971>a <00:30:12.088>talk <00:30:12.205>a <00:30:12.321>while <00:30:12.438>ago <00:30:12.555>about

684
00:30:16.375 --> 00:30:17.955
<00:30:16.375>bad <00:30:16.725>parts <00:30:17.075>of <00:30:17.425>web <00:30:17.775>components

685
00:30:17.985 --> 00:30:20.395
<00:30:17.985>because <00:30:18.264>I <00:30:18.544>am <00:30:18.824>an <00:30:19.104>eternal <00:30:19.385>pessimist.

686
00:30:20.775 --> 00:30:23.435
<00:30:20.775>Um, <00:30:20.930>but <00:30:21.086>I <00:30:21.241>do <00:30:21.397>think <00:30:21.552>web <00:30:21.708>web <00:30:21.863>components <00:30:22.019>are <00:30:22.175>good.

687
00:30:23.835 --> 00:30:25.075
<00:30:23.835>I <00:30:24.058>think <00:30:24.281>they're <00:30:24.504>a <00:30:24.727>useful <00:30:24.951>technology.

688
00:30:26.275 --> 00:30:27.465
<00:30:26.275>We're <00:30:26.810>seeing <00:30:27.346>more

689
00:30:27.465 --> 00:30:29.865
<00:30:27.465>and <00:30:27.698>more <00:30:27.931>increased <00:30:28.165>adoption <00:30:28.398>of <00:30:28.631>web <00:30:28.865>components,

690
00:30:30.205 --> 00:30:31.945
<00:30:30.205>and <00:30:30.360>I <00:30:30.516>think <00:30:30.671>that <00:30:30.827>there's <00:30:30.982>a <00:30:31.138>good <00:30:31.293>reason <00:30:31.449>for <00:30:31.605>that.

691
00:30:32.805 --> 00:30:37.275
<00:30:32.805>Um, <00:30:32.960>they <00:30:33.116>do <00:30:33.271>provide <00:30:33.427>that <00:30:33.582>kind <00:30:33.738>of <00:30:33.893>interoperable <00:30:34.049>layer, <00:30:34.205>um,

692
00:30:38.605 --> 00:30:41.545
<00:30:38.605>and <00:30:38.805>they <00:30:39.005>don't <00:30:39.205>provide <00:30:39.405>everything <00:30:39.605>a <00:30:39.805>framework <00:30:40.005>does.

693
00:30:42.365 --> 00:30:44.825
<00:30:42.365>Uh, <00:30:42.598>but <00:30:42.831>I <00:30:43.065>don't <00:30:43.298>think <00:30:43.531>that <00:30:43.765>everything

694
00:30:44.855 --> 00:30:46.825
<00:30:44.855>that <00:30:45.135>frameworks <00:30:45.415>give <00:30:45.695>you <00:30:45.975>is <00:30:46.255>necessary

695
00:30:47.005 --> 00:30:48.385
<00:30:47.005>for <00:30:47.253>all <00:30:47.501>of <00:30:47.750>the <00:30:47.998>time, <00:30:48.247>right?

696
00:30:48.485 --> 00:30:52.745
<00:30:48.485>We <00:30:48.685>don't <00:30:48.885>need <00:30:49.084>state <00:30:49.284>management <00:30:49.485>for <00:30:49.685>these <00:30:49.885>small,

697
00:30:53.565 --> 00:30:55.825
<00:30:53.565>uh, <00:30:54.031>like <00:30:54.498>independent <00:30:54.965>components.

698
00:30:56.335 --> 00:30:58.865
<00:30:56.335>They <00:30:56.510>don't <00:30:56.685>need <00:30:56.860>to <00:30:57.035>opt <00:30:57.210>into <00:30:57.385>centralized <00:30:57.560>state <00:30:57.735>management,

699
00:30:58.885 --> 00:31:00.545
<00:30:58.885>or <00:30:59.118>they <00:30:59.351>don't <00:30:59.585>need <00:30:59.818>a <00:31:00.051>context <00:31:00.285>provider

700
00:31:00.725 --> 00:31:02.625
<00:31:00.725>or <00:31:00.925>any <00:31:01.125>of <00:31:01.324>these <00:31:01.524>other <00:31:01.725>things <00:31:01.925>that <00:31:02.125>the,

701
00:31:02.645 --> 00:31:03.745
<00:31:02.645>the <00:31:02.975>frameworks <00:31:03.304>offer <00:31:03.635>you.

702
00:31:03.805 --> 00:31:06.745
<00:31:03.805>So <00:31:03.945>there's <00:31:04.085>a <00:31:04.225>place <00:31:04.365>for <00:31:04.505>them <00:31:04.645>and <00:31:04.785>they, <00:31:04.925>they <00:31:05.065>fit <00:31:05.205>in.

703
00:31:07.125 --> 00:31:09.225
<00:31:07.125>Um, <00:31:07.325>I <00:31:07.525>wish <00:31:07.725>people <00:31:07.925>would <00:31:08.125>embrace <00:31:08.325>them <00:31:08.525>more

704
00:31:10.205 --> 00:31:11.825
<00:31:10.205>And <00:31:10.671>eternal <00:31:11.138>pessimists <00:31:11.605>from

705
00:31:11.825 --> 00:31:12.945
<00:31:11.825>England, <00:31:12.026>I <00:31:12.228>never <00:31:12.429>heard <00:31:12.631>about <00:31:12.832>that.

706
00:31:13.005 --> 00:31:16.025
<00:31:13.005>That's <00:31:13.285>a <00:31:13.565>very, <00:31:13.845>It's, <00:31:14.125>it's <00:31:14.405>weird.

707
00:31:16.685 --> 00:31:20.065
<00:31:16.685>One <00:31:16.825>thing <00:31:16.965>that <00:31:17.105>actually <00:31:17.245>always, <00:31:17.385>uh, <00:31:17.524>rubbed <00:31:17.665>me <00:31:17.804>the <00:31:17.945>wrong <00:31:18.085>way,

708
00:31:20.245 --> 00:31:21.385
<00:31:20.245>and <00:31:20.450>I <00:31:20.655>mean, <00:31:20.860>I, <00:31:21.065>I <00:31:21.271>talked

709
00:31:21.385 --> 00:31:24.225
<00:31:21.385>to <00:31:21.525>Jeremy <00:31:21.665>Keith <00:31:21.805>about <00:31:21.945>this <00:31:22.085>on <00:31:22.225>stage <00:31:22.365>several <00:31:22.504>times, <00:31:22.645>is <00:31:22.785>like

710
00:31:24.765 --> 00:31:28.225
<00:31:24.765>we, <00:31:24.940>I <00:31:25.115>wrote <00:31:25.290>this <00:31:25.465>unobtrusive <00:31:25.640>JavaScript <00:31:25.815>course <00:31:25.990>in <00:31:26.165>2000

711
00:31:28.225 --> 00:31:30.545
<00:31:28.225>where <00:31:28.504>basically <00:31:28.784>said <00:31:29.064>like, <00:31:29.344>progressive <00:31:29.625>enhancement,

712
00:31:30.655 --> 00:31:33.025
<00:31:30.655>make <00:31:30.810>sure <00:31:30.966>that <00:31:31.121>your <00:31:31.277>JavaScript <00:31:31.432>is <00:31:31.588>never <00:31:31.743>in <00:31:31.899>the <00:31:32.055>way.

713
00:31:33.445 --> 00:31:36.145
<00:31:33.445>Put <00:31:33.572>all <00:31:33.699>the <00:31:33.826>styling <00:31:33.954>in <00:31:34.081>your <00:31:34.208>CSS, <00:31:34.335>put <00:31:34.463>a <00:31:34.590>class <00:31:34.717>on <00:31:34.845>top

714
00:31:36.145 --> 00:31:37.705
<00:31:36.145>of <00:31:36.425>something <00:31:36.705>and <00:31:36.985>use <00:31:37.264>the <00:31:37.545>CSS

715
00:31:37.705 --> 00:31:39.865
<00:31:37.705>to <00:31:37.905>define <00:31:38.105>it <00:31:38.304>rather <00:31:38.504>than <00:31:38.705>doing <00:31:38.905>inline <00:31:39.105>styles.

716
00:31:40.245 --> 00:31:43.145
<00:31:40.245>And <00:31:40.372>then <00:31:40.499>we <00:31:40.626>get <00:31:40.754>JSX, <00:31:40.881>and <00:31:41.008>then <00:31:41.135>we <00:31:41.263>get <00:31:41.390>things <00:31:41.517>like <00:31:41.645>Tailwind

717
00:31:43.145 --> 00:31:46.065
<00:31:43.145>and <00:31:43.300>we <00:31:43.456>kind <00:31:43.611>of <00:31:43.767>like <00:31:43.922>paint <00:31:44.078>with, <00:31:44.233>with, <00:31:44.389>with, <00:31:44.545>with,

718
00:31:46.065 --> 00:31:47.105
<00:31:46.065>with <00:31:46.533>markup <00:31:47.001>again.

719
00:31:47.685 --> 00:31:50.465
<00:31:47.685>And <00:31:47.812>it <00:31:47.939>feels <00:31:48.066>to <00:31:48.194>me <00:31:48.321>so <00:31:48.448>weird <00:31:48.575>that <00:31:48.703>we're <00:31:48.830>actually, <00:31:48.957>that, <00:31:49.085>that,

720
00:31:50.615 --> 00:31:53.105
<00:31:50.615>that <00:31:50.790>it <00:31:50.965>seems <00:31:51.140>to <00:31:51.315>be <00:31:51.490>such <00:31:51.665>a <00:31:51.840>hard <00:31:52.015>sell

721
00:31:53.525 --> 00:31:55.945
<00:31:53.525>to <00:31:53.758>make <00:31:53.991>people <00:31:54.225>understand <00:31:54.458>that <00:31:54.691>the <00:31:54.925>separation

722
00:31:55.945 --> 00:31:59.105
<00:31:55.945>of <00:31:56.100>concerns <00:31:56.256>is <00:31:56.411>not <00:31:56.567>something <00:31:56.722>that, <00:31:56.878>because <00:31:57.033>we <00:31:57.189>hate <00:31:57.345>you,

723
00:31:59.445 --> 00:32:01.625
<00:31:59.445>but <00:31:59.600>it's <00:31:59.756>actually <00:31:59.911>something <00:32:00.067>to <00:32:00.222>make <00:32:00.378>it <00:32:00.533>easier <00:32:00.689>for <00:32:00.845>you

724
00:32:01.645 --> 00:32:04.985
<00:32:01.645>to <00:32:01.800>maintain <00:32:01.956>something <00:32:02.111>that <00:32:02.267>you've <00:32:02.422>created <00:32:02.578>half <00:32:02.733>a <00:32:02.889>year <00:32:03.045>ago.

725
00:32:05.205 --> 00:32:07.825
<00:32:05.205>And <00:32:05.332>you <00:32:05.459>go <00:32:05.586>back <00:32:05.714>to <00:32:05.841>it <00:32:05.968>and <00:32:06.095>you <00:32:06.223>still <00:32:06.350>to <00:32:06.477>understand <00:32:06.605>it.

726
00:32:07.845 --> 00:32:11.145
<00:32:07.845>But <00:32:08.000>it <00:32:08.156>seems <00:32:08.311>like, <00:32:08.467>especially <00:32:08.622>with <00:32:08.778>the <00:32:08.933>success <00:32:09.089>of <00:32:09.245>Tailwind,

727
00:32:11.665 --> 00:32:13.065
<00:32:11.665>I <00:32:11.980>still <00:32:12.295>don't <00:32:12.610>understand <00:32:12.925>it.

728
00:32:13.225 --> 00:32:15.865
<00:32:13.225>I <00:32:13.380>still, <00:32:13.536>people <00:32:13.691>that <00:32:13.847>said, <00:32:14.002>like, <00:32:14.158>I <00:32:14.313>work <00:32:14.469>in <00:32:14.625>TypeScript,

729
00:32:15.945 --> 00:32:17.345
<00:32:15.945>I <00:32:16.155>work <00:32:16.365>at <00:32:16.575>React, <00:32:16.785>so <00:32:16.995>Tailwind <00:32:17.205>makes

730
00:32:17.345 --> 00:32:18.425
<00:32:17.345>me <00:32:17.669>really, <00:32:17.993>really <00:32:18.317>effective.

731
00:32:18.885 --> 00:32:22.265
<00:32:18.885>But, <00:32:19.085>uh, <00:32:19.285>learning <00:32:19.485>all <00:32:19.685>these <00:32:19.885>shortcut <00:32:20.085>CSS <00:32:20.285>names

732
00:32:22.265 --> 00:32:25.305
<00:32:22.265>that <00:32:22.392>reminds <00:32:22.519>me <00:32:22.646>of <00:32:22.774>Bem <00:32:22.901>or <00:32:23.028>other <00:32:23.155>systems <00:32:23.283>that <00:32:23.410>we <00:32:23.537>had <00:32:23.665>before.

733
00:32:26.005 --> 00:32:29.465
<00:32:26.005>And <00:32:26.121>I'm <00:32:26.238>like, <00:32:26.355>why <00:32:26.471>do <00:32:26.588>I <00:32:26.705>need <00:32:26.821>this <00:32:26.938>when <00:32:27.055>I <00:32:27.171>actually <00:32:27.288>could <00:32:27.405>have

734
00:32:29.465 --> 00:32:31.505
<00:32:29.465>it <00:32:29.745>in <00:32:30.024>like <00:32:30.304>readable <00:32:30.584>CSS <00:32:30.865>syntax?

735
00:32:31.525 --> 00:32:34.385
<00:32:31.525>Or <00:32:31.641>am <00:32:31.758>I <00:32:31.875>just <00:32:31.991>being <00:32:32.108>a <00:32:32.225>dreamer? <00:32:32.341>And <00:32:32.458>I <00:32:32.575>think <00:32:32.691>CSS <00:32:32.808>is <00:32:32.925>readable.

736
00:32:35.145 --> 00:32:37.225
<00:32:35.145>I <00:32:35.320>mean, <00:32:35.495>what <00:32:35.670>sold <00:32:35.845>is <00:32:36.020>new, <00:32:36.195>I <00:32:36.370>think, <00:32:36.545>right?

737
00:32:37.375 --> 00:32:39.245
<00:32:37.375>Like, <00:32:37.608>uh, <00:32:37.841>a <00:32:38.075>lot <00:32:38.308>of <00:32:38.541>these, <00:32:38.775>uh,

738
00:32:40.125 --> 00:32:42.405
<00:32:40.125>I <00:32:40.300>often <00:32:40.475>joke <00:32:40.650>like <00:32:40.825>nothing <00:32:41.000>good <00:32:41.175>has <00:32:41.350>been <00:32:41.525>invented

739
00:32:42.415 --> 00:32:43.645
<00:32:42.415>since <00:32:42.968>the <00:32:43.522>1970s.

740
00:32:43.645 --> 00:32:45.605
<00:32:43.645>Like <00:32:43.878>all <00:32:44.111>of <00:32:44.345>the <00:32:44.578>foundational <00:32:44.811>problems <00:32:45.045>were

741
00:32:46.325 --> 00:32:50.645
<00:32:46.325>resolved <00:32:46.480>in <00:32:46.636>white <00:32:46.791>papers <00:32:46.947>and, <00:32:47.102>uh, <00:32:47.258>conferences <00:32:47.413>in <00:32:47.569>the <00:32:47.725>1970s.

742
00:32:50.705 --> 00:32:52.845
<00:32:50.705>But, <00:32:50.905>um, <00:32:51.105>but <00:32:51.304>no, <00:32:51.504>yeah, <00:32:51.705>I, <00:32:51.905>I <00:32:52.105>agree.

743
00:32:53.065 --> 00:32:57.625
<00:32:53.065>Uh, <00:32:53.220>in <00:32:53.376>part, <00:32:53.531>like <00:32:53.687>I, <00:32:53.842>I <00:32:53.998>kind <00:32:54.153>of <00:32:54.309>see <00:32:54.465>some

744
00:32:57.665 --> 00:32:58.705
<00:32:57.665>of <00:32:57.899>the <00:32:58.133>value <00:32:58.367>in <00:32:58.601>Tailwind.

745
00:32:58.825 --> 00:33:01.785
<00:32:58.825>I <00:32:58.980>think <00:32:59.136>a <00:32:59.291>lot <00:32:59.447>of <00:32:59.602>the <00:32:59.758>value, <00:32:59.913>like <00:33:00.069>a <00:33:00.225>lot

746
00:33:01.785 --> 00:33:03.825
<00:33:01.785>of <00:33:02.018>these <00:33:02.251>tools <00:33:02.485>talk <00:33:02.718>about <00:33:02.951>developer <00:33:03.185>experience,

747
00:33:04.195 --> 00:33:06.705
<00:33:04.195>which <00:33:04.370>is <00:33:04.544>this <00:33:04.720>very <00:33:04.895>kind <00:33:05.070>of <00:33:05.245>weird <00:33:05.419>nebulous <00:33:05.595>term.

748
00:33:07.485 --> 00:33:11.025
<00:33:07.485>Um, <00:33:07.592>and <00:33:07.700>kind <00:33:07.808>of <00:33:07.915>what <00:33:08.023>I've <00:33:08.131>pinned <00:33:08.238>it <00:33:08.346>down <00:33:08.454>to <00:33:08.561>as, <00:33:08.669>as, <00:33:08.777>as <00:33:08.885>far

749
00:33:11.025 --> 00:33:14.865
<00:33:11.025>as <00:33:11.225>I <00:33:11.425>can <00:33:11.625>see <00:33:11.825>is, <00:33:12.025>um, <00:33:12.225>IDE <00:33:12.425>completions

750
00:33:14.925 --> 00:33:18.745
<00:33:14.925>and <00:33:15.100>go <00:33:15.274>to <00:33:15.450>definition, <00:33:15.625>uh, <00:33:15.800>which <00:33:15.975>is <00:33:16.149>like <00:33:16.325>something

751
00:33:18.745 --> 00:33:22.945
<00:33:18.745>that <00:33:18.861>I <00:33:18.978>think <00:33:19.094>has <00:33:19.211>been <00:33:19.328>under <00:33:19.445>invested <00:33:19.561>in <00:33:19.678>for <00:33:19.794>a <00:33:19.911>long <00:33:20.028>time, <00:33:20.145>um,

752
00:33:23.525 --> 00:33:27.345
<00:33:23.525>in <00:33:23.725>the <00:33:23.925>world <00:33:24.125>of <00:33:24.325>like <00:33:24.525>dynamic <00:33:24.725>languages, <00:33:24.925>uh,

753
00:33:27.445 --> 00:33:30.865
<00:33:27.445>and <00:33:27.585>maybe <00:33:27.725>markup <00:33:27.865>languages <00:33:28.004>like, <00:33:28.145>uh, <00:33:28.284>h <00:33:28.425>tm <00:33:28.564>L <00:33:28.705>and <00:33:28.845>CSS.

754
00:33:31.685 --> 00:33:35.185
<00:33:31.685>So, <00:33:31.840>so <00:33:31.996>having <00:33:32.151>good <00:33:32.307>auto <00:33:32.462>completions <00:33:32.618>I <00:33:32.773>think <00:33:32.929>does <00:33:33.085>actually

755
00:33:35.185 --> 00:33:36.665
<00:33:35.185>help <00:33:35.518>a <00:33:35.851>lot <00:33:36.184>of <00:33:36.517>developers.

756
00:33:37.445 --> 00:33:40.985
<00:33:37.445>Um, <00:33:37.572>I <00:33:37.699>think <00:33:37.826>that's <00:33:37.954>where <00:33:38.081>the <00:33:38.208>value <00:33:38.335>add <00:33:38.463>of <00:33:38.590>Tailwind <00:33:38.717>comes <00:33:38.845>in,

757
00:33:40.985 --> 00:33:44.555
<00:33:40.985>because <00:33:41.112>the <00:33:41.239>idea <00:33:41.366>that <00:33:41.494>you <00:33:41.621>can <00:33:41.748>pick <00:33:41.875>from <00:33:42.003>a <00:33:42.130>list <00:33:42.257>of <00:33:42.385>things,

758
00:33:45.375 --> 00:33:48.355
<00:33:45.375>uh, <00:33:45.575>and <00:33:45.775>hopefully <00:33:45.975>get <00:33:46.175>the <00:33:46.375>right <00:33:46.575>one, <00:33:46.775>uh,

759
00:33:48.855 --> 00:33:50.035
<00:33:48.855>is <00:33:49.386>maybe <00:33:49.917>comforting.

760
00:33:50.615 --> 00:33:54.475
<00:33:50.615>But <00:33:50.742>yeah, <00:33:50.869>I, <00:33:50.996>the, <00:33:51.124>I <00:33:51.251>got <00:33:51.378>into <00:33:51.505>an <00:33:51.633>argument <00:33:51.760>recently <00:33:51.887>on <00:33:52.015>Twitter

761
00:33:54.475 --> 00:33:56.835
<00:33:54.475>because, <00:33:54.754>uh, <00:33:55.034>someone <00:33:55.314>was <00:33:55.594>pointing <00:33:55.875>out

762
00:33:56.855 --> 00:34:00.195
<00:33:56.855>how <00:33:57.055>good <00:33:57.255>tailwind's <00:33:57.455>innovation <00:33:57.655>of <00:33:57.855>logical <00:33:58.055>properties <00:33:58.255>are,

763
00:34:00.655 --> 00:34:03.675
<00:34:00.655>and <00:34:00.782>I <00:34:00.909>had <00:34:01.036>to <00:34:01.164>explain <00:34:01.291>to <00:34:01.418>them <00:34:01.545>that <00:34:01.673>that <00:34:01.800>is <00:34:01.927>actually, <00:34:02.055>uh,

764
00:34:03.825 --> 00:34:07.115
<00:34:03.825>something <00:34:04.000>that <00:34:04.175>was <00:34:04.350>specified <00:34:04.525>in <00:34:04.700>CSS <00:34:04.875>that <00:34:05.050>Tailwind <00:34:05.225>is,

765
00:34:07.135 --> 00:34:08.355
<00:34:07.135>uh, <00:34:07.684>picked <00:34:08.233>up.

766
00:34:08.735 --> 00:34:10.915
<00:34:08.735>Uh, <00:34:08.935>like <00:34:09.135>turns <00:34:09.335>out <00:34:09.535>the <00:34:09.735>innovation <00:34:09.935>was <00:34:10.135>in

767
00:34:10.955 --> 00:34:12.275
<00:34:10.955>CSS <00:34:11.252>all <00:34:11.549>along, <00:34:11.846>who <00:34:12.143>knew?

768
00:34:13.315 --> 00:34:17.885
<00:34:13.315>Um, <00:34:13.455>but <00:34:13.595>yeah, <00:34:13.735>you <00:34:13.875>know, <00:34:14.014>it's, <00:34:14.155>this <00:34:14.295>is, <00:34:14.435>I <00:34:14.575>think, <00:34:14.715>intrinsic

769
00:34:17.985 --> 00:34:22.855
<00:34:17.985>to <00:34:18.125>the <00:34:18.265>problem <00:34:18.405>we <00:34:18.545>face, <00:34:18.685>um, <00:34:18.825>as <00:34:18.965>an <00:34:19.105>industry <00:34:19.245>is <00:34:19.385>that

770
00:34:23.555 --> 00:34:26.575
<00:34:23.554>people <00:34:23.730>are <00:34:23.904>so <00:34:24.080>far <00:34:24.254>removed <00:34:24.429>from <00:34:24.605>the <00:34:24.779>underlying <00:34:24.955>platform

771
00:34:26.685 --> 00:34:29.735
<00:34:26.685>that <00:34:26.824>they <00:34:26.965>can't <00:34:27.105>actually <00:34:27.245>see <00:34:27.384>it <00:34:27.525>change, <00:34:27.665>um, <00:34:27.804>for <00:34:27.945>the <00:34:28.085>better,

772
00:34:30.115 --> 00:34:32.015
<00:34:30.114>or <00:34:30.348>they <00:34:30.581>can't <00:34:30.814>see <00:34:31.048>the <00:34:31.281>changes, <00:34:31.514>uh,

773
00:34:32.015 --> 00:34:33.175
<00:34:32.014>that <00:34:32.223>happen <00:34:32.432>in <00:34:32.641>front <00:34:32.850>of <00:34:33.059>them.

774
00:34:34.115 --> 00:34:38.385
<00:34:34.114>Um, <00:34:34.348>you <00:34:34.581>know, <00:34:34.814>uh, <00:34:35.048>there's <00:34:35.281>a <00:34:35.514>lot

775
00:34:38.385 --> 00:34:40.945
<00:34:38.385>of <00:34:38.618>like <00:34:38.851>libraries <00:34:39.085>with <00:34:39.318>something <00:34:39.551>like <00:34:39.785>React

776
00:34:40.945 --> 00:34:43.745
<00:34:40.945>that <00:34:41.120>wrap <00:34:41.295>things <00:34:41.470>like <00:34:41.645>D <00:34:41.820>three, <00:34:41.995>uh, <00:34:42.170>or <00:34:42.345>WebGL,

777
00:34:44.365 --> 00:34:46.145
<00:34:44.364>and <00:34:44.540>it's <00:34:44.714>like, <00:34:44.889>look, <00:34:45.064>look <00:34:45.239>what <00:34:45.415>React <00:34:45.589>can <00:34:45.764>do.

778
00:34:46.145 --> 00:34:47.785
<00:34:46.145>We <00:34:46.378>can, <00:34:46.611>we <00:34:46.844>can <00:34:47.078>render <00:34:47.311>3D <00:34:47.545>graphics.

779
00:34:47.895 --> 00:34:50.745
<00:34:47.895>It's <00:34:48.034>like, <00:34:48.175>no, <00:34:48.315>the, <00:34:48.455>the <00:34:48.594>web <00:34:48.735>platform <00:34:48.875>can <00:34:49.014>render <00:34:49.155>3D <00:34:49.295>graphics.

780
00:34:51.205 --> 00:34:53.665
<00:34:51.205>Uh, <00:34:51.438>you've <00:34:51.671>just <00:34:51.904>implemented <00:34:52.138>a, <00:34:52.371>a <00:34:52.605>wrapper

781
00:34:53.665 --> 00:34:54.785
<00:34:53.665>around <00:34:53.917>it, <00:34:54.168>which <00:34:54.420>is <00:34:54.672>great.

782
00:34:54.975 --> 00:34:57.665
<00:34:54.975>Like <00:34:55.255>I, <00:34:55.534>you <00:34:55.815>know, <00:34:56.094>would <00:34:56.375>love

783
00:34:57.665 --> 00:35:00.185
<00:34:57.665>to <00:34:57.840>see <00:34:58.015>more <00:34:58.190>people <00:34:58.365>get <00:34:58.540>involved <00:34:58.715>in <00:34:58.890>3D <00:34:59.065>graphics.

784
00:35:00.285 --> 00:35:01.665
<00:35:00.285>That's <00:35:00.906>wonderful. <00:35:01.527>Um,

785
00:35:02.825 --> 00:35:05.085
<00:35:02.825>but <00:35:03.000>yeah, <00:35:03.174>like <00:35:03.350>it's <00:35:03.524>the <00:35:03.700>operating <00:35:03.875>system <00:35:04.049>that <00:35:04.225>it,

786
00:35:05.085 --> 00:35:07.645
<00:35:05.085>that <00:35:05.225>we <00:35:05.365>call <00:35:05.505>the <00:35:05.645>browser <00:35:05.785>that's <00:35:05.925>behind <00:35:06.065>all <00:35:06.205>of <00:35:06.345>that, <00:35:06.485>right?

787
00:35:07.825 --> 00:35:10.685
<00:35:07.825>That's <00:35:08.105>the <00:35:08.384>kind <00:35:08.665>of, <00:35:08.944>uh, <00:35:09.225>person

788
00:35:10.685 --> 00:35:12.165
<00:35:10.685>behind <00:35:10.951>the <00:35:11.217>curtain, <00:35:11.484>so <00:35:11.750>to <00:35:12.017>speak.

789
00:35:12.615 --> 00:35:14.845
<00:35:12.615>There <00:35:12.770>were <00:35:12.926>a <00:35:13.081>few <00:35:13.237>in <00:35:13.392>the <00:35:13.548>past, <00:35:13.703>I <00:35:13.859>remember <00:35:14.015>when,

790
00:35:14.845 --> 00:35:16.245
<00:35:14.845>when <00:35:15.096>Canvas <00:35:15.348>was <00:35:15.600>the <00:35:15.853>first <00:35:16.105>one

791
00:35:16.245 --> 00:35:17.525
<00:35:16.245>to <00:35:16.533>give <00:35:16.821>you <00:35:17.109>hardware <00:35:17.397>acceleration

792
00:35:17.525 --> 00:35:20.325
<00:35:17.525>because <00:35:17.758>then <00:35:17.991>basically <00:35:18.225>we, <00:35:18.458>we, <00:35:18.691>in <00:35:18.925>Mozilla,

793
00:35:20.325 --> 00:35:22.965
<00:35:20.325>we <00:35:20.452>did <00:35:20.579>like <00:35:20.706>Best <00:35:20.834>spin <00:35:20.961>the <00:35:21.088>text <00:35:21.215>editor <00:35:21.343>there <00:35:21.470>was <00:35:21.597>Canvas <00:35:21.725>based

794
00:35:22.965 --> 00:35:24.965
<00:35:22.965>where <00:35:23.165>we <00:35:23.365>had <00:35:23.565>to <00:35:23.765>reinvent <00:35:23.965>copy <00:35:24.165>and <00:35:24.365>paste

795
00:35:24.965 --> 00:35:26.365
<00:35:24.965>because <00:35:25.280>there <00:35:25.595>was <00:35:25.910>no <00:35:26.225>do,

796
00:35:26.425 --> 00:35:28.405
<00:35:26.425>you <00:35:26.625>couldn't <00:35:26.825>actually <00:35:27.025>find <00:35:27.225>a <00:35:27.425>range <00:35:27.625>in <00:35:27.825>there.

797
00:35:28.825 --> 00:35:30.845
<00:35:28.825>Not <00:35:29.024>that <00:35:29.225>the <00:35:29.424>range <00:35:29.625>standard <00:35:29.825>is <00:35:30.024>really <00:35:30.225>good,

798
00:35:30.845 --> 00:35:32.405
<00:35:30.845>that's <00:35:31.044>something <00:35:31.245>we <00:35:31.444>need <00:35:31.645>to <00:35:31.845>fix <00:35:32.044>as <00:35:32.245>well.

799
00:35:32.745 --> 00:35:35.965
<00:35:32.745>But <00:35:32.884>Flutter <00:35:33.025>also <00:35:33.165>uses, <00:35:33.305>uh, <00:35:33.444>cameras <00:35:33.585>under <00:35:33.725>the <00:35:33.865>hood, <00:35:34.005>I <00:35:34.145>think,

800
00:35:36.025 --> 00:35:40.085
<00:35:36.025>and <00:35:36.200>now <00:35:36.375>Google, <00:35:36.550>uh, <00:35:36.725>sheets <00:35:36.900>is <00:35:37.075>using, <00:35:37.250>uh, <00:35:37.425>canvas

801
00:35:40.265 --> 00:35:43.125
<00:35:40.265>to <00:35:40.420>actually <00:35:40.576>render <00:35:40.731>because <00:35:40.887>they <00:35:41.042>needed <00:35:41.198>like <00:35:41.353>50,000 <00:35:41.509>lines <00:35:41.665>of,

802
00:35:43.505 --> 00:35:46.325
<00:35:43.505>of <00:35:43.680>data <00:35:43.855>being <00:35:44.030>scrolling <00:35:44.205>at <00:35:44.380>120 <00:35:44.555>frames <00:35:44.730>per <00:35:44.905>second.

803
00:35:46.905 --> 00:35:49.845
<00:35:46.905>So <00:35:47.080>there <00:35:47.255>is <00:35:47.430>always <00:35:47.605>things <00:35:47.780>that <00:35:47.955>feel <00:35:48.130>like <00:35:48.305>there.

804
00:35:49.865 --> 00:35:52.285
<00:35:49.865>And <00:35:50.004>it, <00:35:50.145>it's <00:35:50.285>fun <00:35:50.424>how <00:35:50.564>these <00:35:50.705>discussions <00:35:50.845>back <00:35:50.984>then <00:35:51.125>when <00:35:51.265>Canvas

805
00:35:52.285 --> 00:35:54.365
<00:35:52.285>came <00:35:52.518>out <00:35:52.751>and <00:35:52.984>be <00:35:53.218>like <00:35:53.451>reinventing <00:35:53.685>outlets

806
00:35:54.465 --> 00:35:55.565
<00:35:54.465>if <00:35:54.712>you <00:35:54.960>think <00:35:55.207>about <00:35:55.455>it.

807
00:35:55.905 --> 00:35:57.205
<00:35:55.905>But <00:35:56.139>now <00:35:56.373>you <00:35:56.607>see <00:35:56.841>m <00:35:57.075>things

808
00:35:57.205 --> 00:36:00.245
<00:35:57.205>where <00:35:57.404>people <00:35:57.605>basically <00:35:57.805>really <00:35:58.005>re <00:35:58.205>really <00:35:58.404>reinvent <00:35:58.605>apples

809
00:36:00.245 --> 00:36:02.485
<00:36:00.245>and <00:36:00.361>put <00:36:00.478>like <00:36:00.595>all <00:36:00.711>kinds <00:36:00.828>of <00:36:00.944>c <00:36:01.061>plus <00:36:01.178>plus <00:36:01.295>code <00:36:01.411>in <00:36:01.528>the <00:36:01.645>browser

810
00:36:02.555 --> 00:36:06.885
<00:36:02.555>through <00:36:02.730>using <00:36:02.904>m <00:36:03.080>Um, <00:36:03.254>it, <00:36:03.430>it's, <00:36:03.605>it's <00:36:03.779>interesting <00:36:03.955>to,

811
00:36:07.025 --> 00:36:09.925
<00:36:07.025>to <00:36:07.180>see <00:36:07.336>that <00:36:07.491>these, <00:36:07.647>uh, <00:36:07.802>that <00:36:07.958>there <00:36:08.113>is <00:36:08.269>platform <00:36:08.425>things

812
00:36:09.925 --> 00:36:11.765
<00:36:09.925>that <00:36:10.205>other <00:36:10.485>people <00:36:10.765>then <00:36:11.045>sell <00:36:11.325>better

813
00:36:12.305 --> 00:36:14.845
<00:36:12.305>by <00:36:12.460>putting <00:36:12.616>an <00:36:12.771>API <00:36:12.927>on <00:36:13.082>top <00:36:13.238>of <00:36:13.393>it <00:36:13.549>or <00:36:13.705>something.

814
00:36:15.345 --> 00:36:17.925
<00:36:15.345>But <00:36:15.500>yeah, <00:36:15.656>D <00:36:15.811>three <00:36:15.967>JS <00:36:16.122>is <00:36:16.278>an <00:36:16.433>abstraction <00:36:16.589>as <00:36:16.745>well.

815
00:36:17.985 --> 00:36:21.405
<00:36:17.985>The <00:36:18.101>same <00:36:18.218>with <00:36:18.335>like <00:36:18.451>Babylon <00:36:18.568>js, <00:36:18.685>uh, <00:36:18.801>used <00:36:18.918>to <00:36:19.035>be <00:36:19.151>is <00:36:19.268>is <00:36:19.385>one

816
00:36:21.405 --> 00:36:23.405
<00:36:21.405>that <00:36:21.560>is <00:36:21.716>used <00:36:21.871>inside <00:36:22.027>Microsoft <00:36:22.182>and <00:36:22.338>a <00:36:22.493>lot <00:36:22.649>of <00:36:22.805>stuff.

817
00:36:23.725 --> 00:36:26.605
<00:36:23.725>I <00:36:23.865>wonder, <00:36:24.005>uh, <00:36:24.145>I <00:36:24.285>mean, <00:36:24.424>I <00:36:24.565>mean, <00:36:24.705>going <00:36:24.845>full <00:36:24.985>circle <00:36:25.125>back

818
00:36:26.605 --> 00:36:30.205
<00:36:26.605>to <00:36:26.760>your <00:36:26.916>thing, <00:36:27.071>what <00:36:27.227>we <00:36:27.382>should <00:36:27.538>invest <00:36:27.693>in <00:36:27.849>as <00:36:28.005>developers

819
00:36:30.205 --> 00:36:31.885
<00:36:30.205>to <00:36:30.671>learn <00:36:31.138>things, <00:36:31.605>um,

820
00:36:32.265 --> 00:36:34.725
<00:36:32.265>it <00:36:32.440>seems <00:36:32.615>like <00:36:32.790>the <00:36:32.964>abstraction <00:36:33.140>bit <00:36:33.315>is <00:36:33.490>the, <00:36:33.665>the,

821
00:36:34.725 --> 00:36:38.685
<00:36:34.725>the <00:36:34.880>siren <00:36:35.036>song <00:36:35.191>of <00:36:35.347>making <00:36:35.502>it <00:36:35.658>more <00:36:35.813>effective <00:36:35.969>upfront <00:36:36.125>will

822
00:36:39.335 --> 00:36:41.445
<00:36:39.335>yield <00:36:39.615>some <00:36:39.895>extra <00:36:40.175>cost <00:36:40.455>later <00:36:40.735>on.

823
00:36:41.585 --> 00:36:45.245
<00:36:41.585>So <00:36:41.760>understand <00:36:41.935>the <00:36:42.110>platform <00:36:42.285>underneath <00:36:42.460>at <00:36:42.635>least <00:36:42.810>is <00:36:42.985>something

824
00:36:45.245 --> 00:36:47.245
<00:36:45.245>that <00:36:45.525>is <00:36:45.805>never <00:36:46.085>a <00:36:46.365>wasted <00:36:46.645>investment.

825
00:36:47.545 --> 00:36:51.525
<00:36:47.545>Or <00:36:47.685>do <00:36:47.825>you <00:36:47.965>think <00:36:48.105>that's <00:36:48.245>something <00:36:48.385>we <00:36:48.525>cannot <00:36:48.665>tell <00:36:48.805>young <00:36:48.945>folk

826
00:36:51.665 --> 00:36:53.765
<00:36:51.665>to <00:36:51.898>actually <00:36:52.131>get <00:36:52.365>them <00:36:52.598>on <00:36:52.831>our <00:36:53.065>side?

827
00:36:54.025 --> 00:36:57.765
<00:36:54.025>The <00:36:54.141>crux <00:36:54.258>of <00:36:54.375>the <00:36:54.491>post, <00:36:54.608>uh, <00:36:54.725>that <00:36:54.841>I <00:36:54.958>was <00:36:55.075>trying <00:36:55.191>to <00:36:55.308>kinda <00:36:55.425>get

828
00:36:57.765 --> 00:36:59.885
<00:36:57.765>to <00:36:58.115>was, <00:36:58.464>I, <00:36:58.815>I <00:36:59.165>think

829
00:36:59.885 --> 00:37:02.525
<00:36:59.885>that <00:37:00.025>we <00:37:00.165>are <00:37:00.305>in <00:37:00.445>a <00:37:00.585>really <00:37:00.725>competitive <00:37:00.865>market <00:37:01.005>at <00:37:01.145>the <00:37:01.285>moment.

830
00:37:03.105 --> 00:37:05.045
<00:37:03.105>Uh, <00:37:03.280>there's <00:37:03.455>a <00:37:03.630>lot <00:37:03.805>of <00:37:03.980>new <00:37:04.155>developers <00:37:04.330>coming <00:37:04.505>in.

831
00:37:06.335 --> 00:37:08.845
<00:37:06.335>I <00:37:06.568>interview <00:37:06.801>a <00:37:07.035>lot <00:37:07.268>of <00:37:07.501>candidates, <00:37:07.735>um,

832
00:37:09.745 --> 00:37:12.885
<00:37:09.745>and <00:37:09.944>I <00:37:10.145>see <00:37:10.345>a <00:37:10.545>lot <00:37:10.745>of <00:37:10.944>folk, <00:37:11.145>um,

833
00:37:14.155 --> 00:37:17.335
<00:37:14.155>pretty <00:37:14.310>much <00:37:14.466>everyone <00:37:14.621>who <00:37:14.777>comes <00:37:14.932>through <00:37:15.088>to, <00:37:15.243>to <00:37:15.399>at <00:37:15.555>least

834
00:37:17.565 --> 00:37:19.295
<00:37:17.565>that <00:37:17.798>I, <00:37:18.031>that <00:37:18.265>I <00:37:18.498>end <00:37:18.731>up <00:37:18.965>interviewing.

835
00:37:19.605 --> 00:37:23.675
<00:37:19.605>They <00:37:19.760>know <00:37:19.916>some <00:37:20.071>level <00:37:20.227>of <00:37:20.382>the <00:37:20.538>frameworks <00:37:20.693>like <00:37:20.849>React, <00:37:21.005>um,

836
00:37:23.895 --> 00:37:25.635
<00:37:23.895>and <00:37:24.070>so <00:37:24.245>they've <00:37:24.420>kind <00:37:24.595>of <00:37:24.770>done <00:37:24.945>the <00:37:25.120>requisite <00:37:25.295>part

837
00:37:25.735 --> 00:37:26.795
<00:37:25.735>to <00:37:25.894>get <00:37:26.053>through <00:37:26.212>the <00:37:26.371>door, <00:37:26.530>I <00:37:26.689>guess.

838
00:37:27.615 --> 00:37:32.065
<00:37:27.615>Um, <00:37:27.742>but <00:37:27.869>you <00:37:27.996>know, <00:37:28.124>there's <00:37:28.251>only <00:37:28.378>so <00:37:28.505>many <00:37:28.633>slots <00:37:28.760>to <00:37:28.887>fill, <00:37:29.015>right?

839
00:37:32.205 --> 00:37:34.065
<00:37:32.205>And <00:37:32.671>so <00:37:33.138>for <00:37:33.605>better

840
00:37:34.065 --> 00:37:36.905
<00:37:34.065>or <00:37:34.298>worse, <00:37:34.531>the <00:37:34.765>market <00:37:34.998>looks <00:37:35.231>for <00:37:35.465>like

841
00:37:36.925 --> 00:37:38.625
<00:37:36.925>how <00:37:37.275>you <00:37:37.625>can <00:37:37.975>differentiate <00:37:38.325>yourself.

842
00:37:39.125 --> 00:37:42.385
<00:37:39.125>And <00:37:39.265>so <00:37:39.405>I <00:37:39.545>speak <00:37:39.685>with <00:37:39.825>a <00:37:39.965>lot <00:37:40.105>of <00:37:40.245>junior <00:37:40.385>developers <00:37:40.525>who,

843
00:37:42.605 --> 00:37:45.905
<00:37:42.605>or <00:37:42.838>early <00:37:43.071>stage, <00:37:43.305>uh, <00:37:43.538>um, <00:37:43.771>developers <00:37:44.005>who

844
00:37:47.085 --> 00:37:48.585
<00:37:47.085>are <00:37:47.310>asking <00:37:47.535>like, <00:37:47.760>what <00:37:47.985>do <00:37:48.210>I <00:37:48.435>do?

845
00:37:48.685 --> 00:37:50.065
<00:37:48.685>How <00:37:48.995>can <00:37:49.306>I <00:37:49.616>differentiate <00:37:49.927>myself?

846
00:37:50.125 --> 00:37:51.905
<00:37:50.125>And, <00:37:50.358>and <00:37:50.591>the <00:37:50.825>classic <00:37:51.058>answer <00:37:51.291>there <00:37:51.525>is,

847
00:37:51.905 --> 00:37:53.185
<00:37:51.905>well <00:37:52.481>specialize, <00:37:53.057>right?

848
00:37:53.605 --> 00:37:55.785
<00:37:53.605>Um, <00:37:53.838>but, <00:37:54.071>but <00:37:54.305>where <00:37:54.538>do <00:37:54.771>you <00:37:55.005>specialize?

849
00:37:56.725 --> 00:38:00.345
<00:37:56.725>Uh, <00:37:56.852>and <00:37:56.979>this <00:37:57.106>is <00:37:57.234>where <00:37:57.361>I <00:37:57.488>do <00:37:57.615>think <00:37:57.743>knocking <00:37:57.870>one <00:37:57.997>layer <00:37:58.125>off

850
00:38:00.345 --> 00:38:03.265
<00:38:00.345>of <00:38:00.500>the <00:38:00.656>stack <00:38:00.811>of <00:38:00.967>abstractions <00:38:01.122>that <00:38:01.278>you <00:38:01.433>are <00:38:01.589>working <00:38:01.745>on

851
00:38:03.925 --> 00:38:06.625
<00:38:03.925>can <00:38:04.158>be <00:38:04.391>a <00:38:04.625>useful <00:38:04.858>and <00:38:05.091>rewarding <00:38:05.325>experience.

852
00:38:07.485 --> 00:38:09.785
<00:38:07.485>Um, <00:38:07.660>and <00:38:07.835>it's <00:38:08.010>what <00:38:08.185>I <00:38:08.360>do <00:38:08.535>all <00:38:08.710>the <00:38:08.885>time.

853
00:38:09.855 --> 00:38:13.185
<00:38:09.855>Like, <00:38:10.010>you <00:38:10.166>can <00:38:10.321>always <00:38:10.477>go <00:38:10.632>one <00:38:10.788>layer <00:38:10.943>further <00:38:11.099>down, <00:38:11.255>right?

854
00:38:13.605 --> 00:38:16.025
<00:38:13.605>If <00:38:13.805>you <00:38:14.005>are <00:38:14.205>working <00:38:14.405>in <00:38:14.605>a <00:38:14.805>dynamic <00:38:15.005>language,

855
00:38:17.055 --> 00:38:19.665
<00:38:17.055>look <00:38:17.182>at <00:38:17.309>types <00:38:17.436>languages <00:38:17.564>and <00:38:17.691>try <00:38:17.818>and <00:38:17.945>figure <00:38:18.073>out <00:38:18.200>how <00:38:18.327>they <00:38:18.455>work

856
00:38:19.685 --> 00:38:22.945
<00:38:19.685>and <00:38:19.884>try <00:38:20.085>and <00:38:20.285>figure <00:38:20.485>out <00:38:20.685>how, <00:38:20.884>um, <00:38:21.085>what,

857
00:38:22.945 --> 00:38:25.025
<00:38:22.945>what <00:38:23.178>the <00:38:23.411>dynamic <00:38:23.645>language <00:38:23.878>is <00:38:24.111>offering <00:38:24.345>you.

858
00:38:25.195 --> 00:38:27.385
<00:38:25.195>Where <00:38:25.350>is <00:38:25.506>the <00:38:25.661>value <00:38:25.817>add <00:38:25.972>and <00:38:26.128>where <00:38:26.283>are <00:38:26.439>the <00:38:26.595>pitfalls?

859
00:38:27.385 --> 00:38:29.665
<00:38:27.385>Because <00:38:27.585>it <00:38:27.785>will <00:38:27.985>make <00:38:28.185>you <00:38:28.385>a <00:38:28.585>better <00:38:28.785>developer

860
00:38:29.665 --> 00:38:30.945
<00:38:29.665>of <00:38:30.241>dynamic <00:38:30.817>languages.

861
00:38:31.575 --> 00:38:35.525
<00:38:31.575>Similarly, <00:38:31.750>try <00:38:31.924>looking, <00:38:32.100>if <00:38:32.274>you're <00:38:32.450>like <00:38:32.625>a <00:38:32.799>systems <00:38:32.975>engineer,

862
00:38:35.555 --> 00:38:38.165
<00:38:35.555>look <00:38:35.730>at <00:38:35.904>more <00:38:36.080>assembly <00:38:36.254>because <00:38:36.430>that's <00:38:36.605>the <00:38:36.779>layer <00:38:36.955>below

863
00:38:38.225 --> 00:38:39.685
<00:38:38.225>and <00:38:38.444>it <00:38:38.663>will <00:38:38.882>teach <00:38:39.101>you <00:38:39.319>things, <00:38:39.538>right?

864
00:38:41.265 --> 00:38:44.005
<00:38:41.265>Uh, <00:38:41.404>I'm <00:38:41.545>not <00:38:41.685>saying <00:38:41.825>that <00:38:41.964>like <00:38:42.105>if <00:38:42.245>you <00:38:42.384>can't <00:38:42.525>read <00:38:42.665>assembly,

865
00:38:44.005 --> 00:38:47.965
<00:38:44.005>you're <00:38:44.132>not <00:38:44.259>gonna <00:38:44.386>make <00:38:44.514>it, <00:38:44.641>but <00:38:44.768>I <00:38:44.895>am <00:38:45.023>saying <00:38:45.150>that <00:38:45.277>like <00:38:45.405>every

866
00:38:48.675 --> 00:38:52.165
<00:38:48.675>time <00:38:48.850>you <00:38:49.025>peak <00:38:49.200>below, <00:38:49.375>you're <00:38:49.550>gonna <00:38:49.725>learn <00:38:49.900>new <00:38:50.075>things.

867
00:38:52.505 --> 00:38:55.845
<00:38:52.505>You <00:38:52.612>know, <00:38:52.720>it <00:38:52.828>is <00:38:52.935>part <00:38:53.043>of <00:38:53.151>what <00:38:53.258>I <00:38:53.366>consider <00:38:53.474>to <00:38:53.581>be <00:38:53.689>at <00:38:53.797>least <00:38:53.905>a,

868
00:38:56.085 --> 00:38:57.765
<00:38:56.085>a <00:38:56.365>healthy <00:38:56.645>enthusiasm <00:38:56.925>for <00:38:57.205>the <00:38:57.485>topic.

869
00:38:58.665 --> 00:39:01.325
<00:38:58.665>Um, <00:38:58.805>and <00:38:58.945>I <00:38:59.085>think <00:38:59.225>that <00:38:59.365>that's <00:38:59.505>probably <00:38:59.645>what <00:38:59.785>a <00:38:59.925>lot <00:39:00.065>of

870
00:39:02.005 --> 00:39:03.965
<00:39:02.005>interviewers <00:39:02.355>end <00:39:02.705>up <00:39:03.055>selecting <00:39:03.405>for.

871
00:39:04.305 --> 00:39:05.725
<00:39:04.305>And <00:39:04.624>maybe <00:39:04.944>that's, <00:39:05.263>you <00:39:05.583>know,

872
00:39:06.665 --> 00:39:07.845
<00:39:06.665>not <00:39:06.842>a <00:39:07.019>great <00:39:07.196>thing <00:39:07.373>for <00:39:07.549>some <00:39:07.727>people.

873
00:39:08.265 --> 00:39:11.165
<00:39:08.265>But <00:39:08.392>I <00:39:08.519>think <00:39:08.646>at <00:39:08.774>the <00:39:08.901>end <00:39:09.028>of <00:39:09.155>the <00:39:09.283>day, <00:39:09.410>if <00:39:09.537>you <00:39:09.665>are,

874
00:39:11.985 --> 00:39:14.685
<00:39:11.985>if <00:39:12.140>you're <00:39:12.296>looking <00:39:12.451>for, <00:39:12.607>for <00:39:12.762>the <00:39:12.918>next <00:39:13.073>stage <00:39:13.229>to <00:39:13.385>like

875
00:39:15.505 --> 00:39:17.445
<00:39:15.505>the <00:39:15.785>next <00:39:16.065>piece <00:39:16.345>to <00:39:16.625>differentiate <00:39:16.905>yourself,

876
00:39:17.515 --> 00:39:19.325
<00:39:17.515>like <00:39:17.795>there <00:39:18.075>are <00:39:18.355>some <00:39:18.634>avenues, <00:39:18.915>right?

877
00:39:19.925 --> 00:39:23.925
<00:39:19.925>Specializing <00:39:20.205>in <00:39:20.485>ui, <00:39:20.765>specializing <00:39:21.045>in <00:39:21.325>accessibility,

878
00:39:23.925 --> 00:39:27.325
<00:39:23.925>specializing <00:39:24.125>in <00:39:24.325>performance, <00:39:24.525>they <00:39:24.725>are <00:39:24.925>great <00:39:25.125>ways <00:39:25.325>to

879
00:39:28.255 --> 00:39:32.605
<00:39:28.255>level <00:39:28.410>up <00:39:28.566>your <00:39:28.721>career <00:39:28.877>and <00:39:29.032>also <00:39:29.188>kind <00:39:29.343>of <00:39:29.499>provide <00:39:29.655>value

880
00:39:33.465 --> 00:39:36.605
<00:39:33.465>for <00:39:33.640>the <00:39:33.815>companies <00:39:33.990>that <00:39:34.165>you <00:39:34.340>go <00:39:34.515>to <00:39:34.690>work <00:39:34.865>for.

881
00:39:37.235 --> 00:39:39.805
<00:39:37.235>Accessibility, <00:39:37.515>for <00:39:37.795>example, <00:39:38.075>is <00:39:38.355>an <00:39:38.635>area

882
00:39:39.805 --> 00:39:41.765
<00:39:39.805>that <00:39:40.154>is <00:39:40.504>often <00:39:40.855>incredibly <00:39:41.205>underserved.

883
00:39:42.385 --> 00:39:45.045
<00:39:42.385>Um, <00:39:42.525>it <00:39:42.665>requires <00:39:42.805>a <00:39:42.945>lot <00:39:43.085>of <00:39:43.225>passion <00:39:43.365>to <00:39:43.505>get <00:39:43.645>involved <00:39:43.785>in,

884
00:39:45.505 --> 00:39:47.805
<00:39:45.505>but <00:39:45.785>it's <00:39:46.065>also <00:39:46.345>something <00:39:46.625>that, <00:39:46.905>like

885
00:39:48.555 --> 00:39:52.365
<00:39:48.555>with <00:39:48.730>the <00:39:48.904>EU <00:39:49.080>regulations <00:39:49.254>coming <00:39:49.430>in <00:39:49.605>25, <00:39:49.779>we're <00:39:49.955>going

886
00:39:52.365 --> 00:39:56.205
<00:39:52.365>to <00:39:52.564>see <00:39:52.765>kind <00:39:52.964>of <00:39:53.165>some <00:39:53.365>real <00:39:53.564>motivation <00:39:53.765>for,

887
00:39:56.205 --> 00:39:57.925
<00:39:56.205>because <00:39:56.485>the <00:39:56.765>people <00:39:57.045>who <00:39:57.325>didn't <00:39:57.605>care,

888
00:39:58.515 --> 00:40:02.445
<00:39:58.515>because <00:39:58.670>they <00:39:58.826>are <00:39:58.981>only <00:39:59.137>interested <00:39:59.292>in <00:39:59.448>the <00:39:59.603>bottom <00:39:59.759>line, <00:39:59.915>well,

889
00:40:02.565 --> 00:40:04.205
<00:40:02.565>suddenly <00:40:02.740>their <00:40:02.915>bottom <00:40:03.090>line <00:40:03.265>is <00:40:03.440>going <00:40:03.615>to <00:40:03.790>be <00:40:03.965>affected

890
00:40:04.205 --> 00:40:05.765
<00:40:04.205>by <00:40:04.555>things <00:40:04.904>like <00:40:05.255>the <00:40:05.605>accessibility,

891
00:40:05.785 --> 00:40:07.565
<00:40:05.785>the <00:40:06.251>European <00:40:06.718>accessibility <00:40:07.185>initiatives.

892
00:40:07.945 --> 00:40:11.565
<00:40:07.945>So <00:40:08.085>I <00:40:08.225>think <00:40:08.365>that <00:40:08.505>there <00:40:08.645>is <00:40:08.785>a <00:40:08.925>space <00:40:09.065>for <00:40:09.205>folks <00:40:09.345>to

893
00:40:12.455 --> 00:40:15.005
<00:40:12.455>specialize <00:40:12.688>there, <00:40:12.921>become <00:40:13.154>good <00:40:13.388>at <00:40:13.621>the <00:40:13.855>accessibility

894
00:40:15.465 --> 00:40:17.605
<00:40:15.465>and <00:40:15.745>like <00:40:16.025>pave <00:40:16.305>your <00:40:16.585>path <00:40:16.865>there.

895
00:40:18.685 --> 00:40:20.885
<00:40:18.685>I <00:40:18.840>think, <00:40:18.996>yeah, <00:40:19.151>the <00:40:19.307>same <00:40:19.462>is <00:40:19.618>true <00:40:19.773>for <00:40:19.929>performance, <00:40:20.085>right?

896
00:40:21.585 --> 00:40:23.725
<00:40:21.585>Um, <00:40:21.818>Alex <00:40:22.051>Russell <00:40:22.285>talks <00:40:22.518>a <00:40:22.751>lot <00:40:22.985>about

897
00:40:23.785 --> 00:40:27.925
<00:40:23.785>how <00:40:23.984>the <00:40:24.185>market <00:40:24.384>is <00:40:24.585>not <00:40:24.785>getting <00:40:24.984>faster <00:40:25.185>CPUs,

898
00:40:27.925 --> 00:40:29.725
<00:40:27.925>it's <00:40:28.125>just <00:40:28.325>getting <00:40:28.525>more <00:40:28.725>of <00:40:28.925>the <00:40:29.125>slower <00:40:29.325>CPUs.

899
00:40:29.725 --> 00:40:31.765
<00:40:29.725>You <00:40:29.865>know, <00:40:30.005>the <00:40:30.145>bottom <00:40:30.285>of <00:40:30.424>the <00:40:30.565>market <00:40:30.705>is <00:40:30.845>pretty <00:40:30.985>much <00:40:31.125>flat,

900
00:40:32.225 --> 00:40:33.965
<00:40:32.225>so <00:40:32.380>there's <00:40:32.536>gonna <00:40:32.691>be <00:40:32.847>a <00:40:33.002>lot <00:40:33.158>of <00:40:33.313>people <00:40:33.469>coming <00:40:33.625>online.

901
00:40:34.365 --> 00:40:39.205
<00:40:34.365>I <00:40:34.481>think <00:40:34.598>in <00:40:34.714>20, <00:40:34.831>over <00:40:34.948>the <00:40:35.064>kind <00:40:35.181>of <00:40:35.298>covid <00:40:35.415>period, <00:40:35.531>2020 <00:40:35.648>to <00:40:35.765>2024,

902
00:40:39.205 --> 00:40:40.445
<00:40:39.205>we <00:40:39.364>saw <00:40:39.523>like <00:40:39.683>a <00:40:39.842>third <00:40:40.002>of <00:40:40.161>the <00:40:40.321>world

903
00:40:40.985 --> 00:40:44.165
<00:40:40.985>or <00:40:41.125>a <00:40:41.265>third <00:40:41.405>of <00:40:41.545>the <00:40:41.685>internet <00:40:41.825>come <00:40:41.965>online <00:40:42.105>in <00:40:42.245>that <00:40:42.385>period.

904
00:40:45.025 --> 00:40:47.125
<00:40:45.025>Um, <00:40:45.200>so <00:40:45.375>there's <00:40:45.550>a <00:40:45.725>lot <00:40:45.900>of <00:40:46.075>new <00:40:46.250>people <00:40:46.425>online,

905
00:40:47.545 --> 00:40:49.125
<00:40:47.545>and <00:40:47.720>I <00:40:47.895>think <00:40:48.070>we're <00:40:48.245>gonna <00:40:48.420>see <00:40:48.595>the <00:40:48.770>same <00:40:48.945>again.

906
00:40:49.305 --> 00:40:51.045
<00:40:49.305>You <00:40:49.504>know, <00:40:49.705>the, <00:40:49.904>the <00:40:50.105>web <00:40:50.305>continues <00:40:50.504>to <00:40:50.705>grow.

907
00:40:51.105 --> 00:40:52.645
<00:40:51.105>The, <00:40:51.382>the <00:40:51.659>internet <00:40:51.936>continues <00:40:52.213>to <00:40:52.491>grow.

908
00:40:53.015 --> 00:40:54.765
<00:40:53.015>We're <00:40:53.170>gonna <00:40:53.326>see <00:40:53.481>a <00:40:53.637>lot <00:40:53.792>of <00:40:53.948>new <00:40:54.103>people <00:40:54.259>come <00:40:54.415>online

909
00:40:55.725 --> 00:40:59.045
<00:40:55.725>and <00:40:55.900>they're <00:40:56.075>not <00:40:56.250>always <00:40:56.424>gonna <00:40:56.600>be <00:40:56.775>using <00:40:56.950>an <00:40:57.125>iPhone.

910
00:40:59.545 --> 00:41:03.565
<00:40:59.545>And <00:40:59.661>so <00:40:59.778>I <00:40:59.895>think <00:41:00.011>a <00:41:00.128>lot <00:41:00.245>of <00:41:00.361>work <00:41:00.478>will <00:41:00.595>need <00:41:00.711>to <00:41:00.828>be <00:41:00.945>done

911
00:41:03.625 --> 00:41:05.485
<00:41:03.625>to <00:41:03.905>make <00:41:04.185>sure <00:41:04.465>that <00:41:04.745>the <00:41:05.025>web

912
00:41:05.645 --> 00:41:07.205
<00:41:05.645>performs <00:41:05.995>properly <00:41:06.345>for <00:41:06.695>those <00:41:07.045>people.

913
00:41:07.945 --> 00:41:10.765
<00:41:07.945>So <00:41:08.120>yeah, <00:41:08.295>I <00:41:08.470>think <00:41:08.645>performance <00:41:08.820>is <00:41:08.995>a <00:41:09.170>great <00:41:09.345>specialization

914
00:41:10.785 --> 00:41:12.925
<00:41:10.785>to <00:41:11.065>get <00:41:11.345>into <00:41:11.625>learning <00:41:11.904>those <00:41:12.185>tools.

915
00:41:13.285 --> 00:41:15.645
<00:41:13.285>Learning <00:41:13.518>how <00:41:13.751>to <00:41:13.984>make <00:41:14.218>code <00:41:14.451>performant <00:41:14.685>is,

916
00:41:15.705 --> 00:41:18.065
<00:41:15.705>is <00:41:15.938>a <00:41:16.171>really <00:41:16.404>good <00:41:16.638>way <00:41:16.871>to, <00:41:17.105>uh,

917
00:41:18.065 --> 00:41:20.185
<00:41:18.065>differentiate <00:41:18.345>yourselves <00:41:18.625>from <00:41:18.905>the <00:41:19.185>other <00:41:19.465>engineers

918
00:41:20.405 --> 00:41:21.585
<00:41:20.405>in, <00:41:20.670>in <00:41:20.936>the <00:41:21.201>hiring <00:41:21.467>pool.

919
00:41:21.875 --> 00:41:23.505
<00:41:21.875>There <00:41:22.155>are <00:41:22.435>a <00:41:22.715>lot <00:41:22.995>of <00:41:23.275>specifications.

920
00:41:23.505 --> 00:41:25.265
<00:41:23.505>There <00:41:23.705>are <00:41:23.905>a <00:41:24.105>lot <00:41:24.305>of <00:41:24.505>texts <00:41:24.705>to <00:41:24.905>read.

921
00:41:25.645 --> 00:41:27.625
<00:41:25.645>Um, <00:41:25.820>there <00:41:25.995>are <00:41:26.170>a <00:41:26.345>lot <00:41:26.520>of <00:41:26.695>guidelines <00:41:26.870>to <00:41:27.045>read,

922
00:41:28.325 --> 00:41:32.905
<00:41:28.325>and <00:41:28.464>they <00:41:28.605>will, <00:41:28.745>you <00:41:28.884>know, <00:41:29.024>some <00:41:29.165>of <00:41:29.305>them <00:41:29.444>are <00:41:29.585>incredibly <00:41:29.725>tedious

923
00:41:32.905 --> 00:41:35.245
<00:41:32.905>to <00:41:33.185>read <00:41:33.465>or <00:41:33.745>incredibly <00:41:34.025>boring, <00:41:34.305>um,

924
00:41:35.425 --> 00:41:40.025
<00:41:35.425>but <00:41:35.580>they're <00:41:35.736>also <00:41:35.891>really <00:41:36.047>useful <00:41:36.202>if <00:41:36.358>you <00:41:36.513>can <00:41:36.669>learn <00:41:36.825>how

925
00:41:40.845 --> 00:41:42.255
<00:41:40.845>something <00:41:41.479>actually <00:41:42.114>works

926
00:41:43.115 --> 00:41:44.935
<00:41:43.115>and <00:41:43.314>you <00:41:43.515>can <00:41:43.714>put <00:41:43.915>it <00:41:44.115>into <00:41:44.314>practice <00:41:44.515>that

927
00:41:45.125 --> 00:41:47.895
<00:41:45.125>that <00:41:45.325>differentiates <00:41:45.525>you <00:41:45.725>from, <00:41:45.925>from <00:41:46.125>the <00:41:46.325>others. <00:41:46.525>Right.

928
00:41:48.535 --> 00:41:50.055
<00:41:48.535>Excellent. <00:41:48.808>Uh, <00:41:49.082>I <00:41:49.355>think <00:41:49.629>that's <00:41:49.903>good.

929
00:41:50.515 --> 00:41:53.415
<00:41:50.515>Uh, <00:41:50.622>uh, <00:41:50.730>we, <00:41:50.838>that's <00:41:50.945>a <00:41:51.053>good <00:41:51.161>time <00:41:51.268>as <00:41:51.376>I <00:41:51.484>need <00:41:51.591>to <00:41:51.699>end <00:41:51.807>with <00:41:51.915>this

930
00:41:53.415 --> 00:41:55.975
<00:41:53.415>because <00:41:53.590>there's <00:41:53.765>so <00:41:53.940>much <00:41:54.115>to, <00:41:54.290>to <00:41:54.465>learn <00:41:54.640>from <00:41:54.815>this

931
00:41:56.035 --> 00:41:57.495
<00:41:56.035>and <00:41:56.254>I'm <00:41:56.473>gonna <00:41:56.692>work <00:41:56.911>through <00:41:57.130>the <00:41:57.348>transcript

932
00:41:57.495 --> 00:41:58.855
<00:41:57.495>and <00:41:57.699>write <00:41:57.903>a <00:41:58.107>blog <00:41:58.311>post <00:41:58.515>about <00:41:58.719>it.

933
00:41:58.875 --> 00:42:02.935
<00:41:58.875>And <00:41:59.002>like, <00:41:59.129>it's, <00:41:59.256>uh, <00:41:59.384>uh, <00:41:59.511>I <00:41:59.638>think <00:41:59.765>there <00:41:59.893>is, <00:42:00.020>yeah, <00:42:00.147>it <00:42:00.275>is.

934
00:42:03.035 --> 00:42:07.695
<00:42:03.035>It <00:42:03.151>feels <00:42:03.268>like <00:42:03.384>we've <00:42:03.501>seen <00:42:03.618>so <00:42:03.734>much <00:42:03.851>and <00:42:03.968>we've <00:42:04.085>seen <00:42:04.201>so <00:42:04.318>much <00:42:04.435>come

935
00:42:07.695 --> 00:42:09.895
<00:42:07.695>and <00:42:07.870>go <00:42:08.045>that <00:42:08.220>it <00:42:08.395>feels <00:42:08.570>like, <00:42:08.745>oh, <00:42:08.920>uh, <00:42:09.095>uh,

936
00:42:10.315 --> 00:42:12.095
<00:42:10.315>why <00:42:10.515>do <00:42:10.715>I <00:42:10.915>put <00:42:11.115>my <00:42:11.315>effort <00:42:11.515>into <00:42:11.715>that?

937
00:42:12.675 --> 00:42:14.895
<00:42:12.675>But, <00:42:12.875>uh, <00:42:13.075>yeah, <00:42:13.275>it's <00:42:13.475>the, <00:42:13.675>the <00:42:13.875>siren <00:42:14.075>song

938
00:42:14.895 --> 00:42:16.175
<00:42:14.895>of <00:42:15.183>being <00:42:15.471>like <00:42:15.759>very <00:42:16.047>effective

939
00:42:16.195 --> 00:42:19.135
<00:42:16.195>by <00:42:16.335>using <00:42:16.475>abstractions <00:42:16.615>in <00:42:16.755>the <00:42:16.895>end <00:42:17.035>will <00:42:17.175>come <00:42:17.315>back <00:42:17.455>to <00:42:17.595>you

940
00:42:19.195 --> 00:42:21.455
<00:42:19.195>and <00:42:19.370>you <00:42:19.545>will <00:42:19.720>actually <00:42:19.895>have <00:42:20.070>to <00:42:20.245>find <00:42:20.420>a <00:42:20.595>way

941
00:42:21.475 --> 00:42:23.935
<00:42:21.475>to <00:42:21.650>not <00:42:21.825>just <00:42:22.000>be <00:42:22.174>latch <00:42:22.350>onto <00:42:22.525>the <00:42:22.700>one <00:42:22.875>thing

942
00:42:24.245 --> 00:42:25.695
<00:42:24.245>that <00:42:24.462>is, <00:42:24.680>that <00:42:24.897>is <00:42:25.115>hot <00:42:25.332>right <00:42:25.550>now.

943
00:42:25.835 --> 00:42:26.895
<00:42:25.835>And <00:42:26.073>I <00:42:26.312>think <00:42:26.550>it's <00:42:26.788>interesting

944
00:42:26.895 --> 00:42:29.855
<00:42:26.895>because, <00:42:27.128>um, <00:42:27.361>bootcamps <00:42:27.595>used <00:42:27.828>to <00:42:28.061>do <00:42:28.295>that.

945
00:42:29.855 --> 00:42:32.535
<00:42:29.855>Basically <00:42:30.010>you <00:42:30.166>could <00:42:30.321>take <00:42:30.477>the <00:42:30.632>flavor <00:42:30.788>of <00:42:30.943>the <00:42:31.099>month <00:42:31.255>framework

946
00:42:32.595 --> 00:42:35.095
<00:42:32.595>and <00:42:32.828>you <00:42:33.061>basically <00:42:33.294>get <00:42:33.528>a <00:42:33.761>$3,000 <00:42:33.995>certification

947
00:42:35.115 --> 00:42:37.935
<00:42:35.115>and <00:42:35.242>then <00:42:35.369>you <00:42:35.496>will <00:42:35.624>get <00:42:35.751>a <00:42:35.878>job <00:42:36.005>at <00:42:36.133>Meta <00:42:36.260>or <00:42:36.387>at <00:42:36.515>Microsoft

948
00:42:37.995 --> 00:42:39.415
<00:42:37.995>or <00:42:38.314>at <00:42:38.634>Google <00:42:38.953>next <00:42:39.273>week.

949
00:42:39.835 --> 00:42:41.175
<00:42:39.835>And <00:42:40.076>it <00:42:40.317>was <00:42:40.558>never <00:42:40.799>a <00:42:41.041>thing.

950
00:42:41.235 --> 00:42:43.895
<00:42:41.235>And <00:42:41.410>like <00:42:41.585>there's, <00:42:41.760>there's <00:42:41.935>numbers <00:42:42.110>that <00:42:42.285>we <00:42:42.460>see <00:42:42.635>it,

951
00:42:43.895 --> 00:42:46.535
<00:42:43.895>we <00:42:44.050>are <00:42:44.206>developers <00:42:44.361>right <00:42:44.517>now <00:42:44.672>where <00:42:44.828>let's, <00:42:44.983>like, <00:42:45.139>people <00:42:45.295>are

952
00:42:47.175 --> 00:42:49.775
<00:42:47.175>actually <00:42:47.375>really <00:42:47.575>having <00:42:47.775>a <00:42:47.975>hard <00:42:48.175>time <00:42:48.375>finding <00:42:48.575>talent

953
00:42:50.165 --> 00:42:52.895
<00:42:50.165>because <00:42:50.365>they <00:42:50.565>have <00:42:50.765>to <00:42:50.965>sift <00:42:51.165>through <00:42:51.365>those <00:42:51.565>people

954
00:42:53.005 --> 00:42:56.215
<00:42:53.005>that <00:42:53.205>basically <00:42:53.405>just <00:42:53.605>had <00:42:53.805>the <00:42:54.005>certificate <00:42:54.205>only <00:42:54.405>used

955
00:42:56.895 --> 00:43:00.315
<00:42:56.895>abstractions <00:42:57.095>and, <00:42:57.295>and <00:42:57.495>basically <00:42:57.695>lived <00:42:57.895>in <00:42:58.095>this <00:42:58.295>world.

956
00:43:00.415 --> 00:43:02.955
<00:43:00.415>But <00:43:00.648>this <00:43:00.881>is <00:43:01.115>great <00:43:01.348>for <00:43:01.581>building <00:43:01.815>prototypes.

957
00:43:02.955 --> 00:43:05.115
<00:43:02.955>This <00:43:03.154>is <00:43:03.355>great <00:43:03.555>for <00:43:03.755>getting <00:43:03.955>started, <00:43:04.154>for <00:43:04.355>actually

958
00:43:05.715 --> 00:43:06.795
<00:43:05.715>building <00:43:06.201>something <00:43:06.687>fast.

959
00:43:07.295 --> 00:43:10.035
<00:43:07.295>But <00:43:07.495>when <00:43:07.695>it <00:43:07.895>comes <00:43:08.095>to <00:43:08.295>like <00:43:08.495>larger <00:43:08.695>environments

960
00:43:10.215 --> 00:43:12.595
<00:43:10.215>and, <00:43:10.495>uh, <00:43:10.775>uh, <00:43:11.055>bigger <00:43:11.335>companies, <00:43:11.615>I,

961
00:43:12.715 --> 00:43:14.555
<00:43:12.715>I <00:43:12.915>just <00:43:13.115>gave <00:43:13.315>a <00:43:13.515>talk <00:43:13.715>about <00:43:13.915>junior <00:43:14.115>developers

962
00:43:14.695 --> 00:43:16.715
<00:43:14.695>and <00:43:14.895>I <00:43:15.095>said <00:43:15.295>like <00:43:15.495>in <00:43:15.695>the <00:43:15.895>25 <00:43:16.095>years

963
00:43:16.715 --> 00:43:19.355
<00:43:16.715>that <00:43:16.948>I've <00:43:17.181>worked <00:43:17.415>at <00:43:17.648>different <00:43:17.881>companies <00:43:18.115>professionally,

964
00:43:19.645 --> 00:43:21.315
<00:43:19.645>Yahoo, <00:43:20.345>Microsoft <00:43:21.045>Mozilla,

965
00:43:22.315 --> 00:43:24.195
<00:43:22.315>I <00:43:22.595>started <00:43:22.875>six <00:43:23.155>projects <00:43:23.435>from <00:43:23.715>scratch.

966
00:43:24.405 --> 00:43:27.115
<00:43:24.405>Everything <00:43:24.685>else <00:43:24.965>was <00:43:25.245>basically <00:43:25.525>just <00:43:25.805>maintenance

967
00:43:27.255 --> 00:43:28.675
<00:43:27.255>and <00:43:27.574>cleaning <00:43:27.894>old <00:43:28.213>s**t <00:43:28.533>out.

968
00:43:28.695 --> 00:43:32.475
<00:43:28.695>And <00:43:28.850>basically <00:43:29.006>that <00:43:29.161>knowledge <00:43:29.317>is <00:43:29.472>not <00:43:29.628>something <00:43:29.783>you <00:43:29.939>learn <00:43:30.095>by,

969
00:43:32.615 --> 00:43:34.155
<00:43:32.615>by <00:43:32.892>taking <00:43:33.169>on <00:43:33.446>a <00:43:33.723>new <00:43:34.001>framework.

970
00:43:34.455 --> 00:43:36.755
<00:43:34.455>That's <00:43:34.630>something <00:43:34.805>you <00:43:34.980>learn <00:43:35.154>by <00:43:35.330>looking <00:43:35.505>at <00:43:35.680>other <00:43:35.855>code

971
00:43:36.755 --> 00:43:38.075
<00:43:36.755>and <00:43:36.992>knowing <00:43:37.230>how <00:43:37.467>the <00:43:37.705>platform <00:43:37.942>works.

972
00:43:38.455 --> 00:43:39.675
<00:43:38.455>And <00:43:38.674>this <00:43:38.894>is <00:43:39.113>not <00:43:39.333>going <00:43:39.553>away.

973
00:43:39.675 --> 00:43:41.835
<00:43:39.675>If <00:43:39.875>anything, <00:43:40.075>that <00:43:40.275>maintenance <00:43:40.475>is <00:43:40.675>gonna <00:43:40.875>get <00:43:41.075>bigger

974
00:43:42.385 --> 00:43:45.315
<00:43:42.385>this <00:43:42.501>year <00:43:42.618>is <00:43:42.735>gonna <00:43:42.851>be <00:43:42.968>a <00:43:43.085>lot <00:43:43.201>of <00:43:43.318>people <00:43:43.435>going <00:43:43.551>into, <00:43:43.668>uh, <00:43:43.785>uh,

975
00:43:45.315 --> 00:43:47.555
<00:43:45.315>going <00:43:45.548>into <00:43:45.781>retirement <00:43:46.015>that <00:43:46.248>worked <00:43:46.481>on <00:43:46.715>FORTRAN

976
00:43:47.555 --> 00:43:50.875
<00:43:47.555>and <00:43:47.730>COBOL <00:43:47.904>framework <00:43:48.080>software, <00:43:48.254>and <00:43:48.430>a <00:43:48.605>lot <00:43:48.779>of <00:43:48.955>banks

977
00:43:51.015 --> 00:43:52.115
<00:43:51.015>and <00:43:51.509>insurance <00:43:52.004>companies

978
00:43:52.115 --> 00:43:53.955
<00:43:52.115>that <00:43:52.314>I <00:43:52.515>know <00:43:52.714>are <00:43:52.915>still <00:43:53.115>using <00:43:53.314>those <00:43:53.515>things.

979
00:43:54.735 --> 00:43:57.835
<00:43:54.735>So <00:43:54.935>there's <00:43:55.135>a <00:43:55.335>whole <00:43:55.535>landfill <00:43:55.735>of <00:43:55.935>like <00:43:56.135>really,

980
00:43:57.835 --> 00:43:59.355
<00:43:57.835>really <00:43:58.177>bad <00:43:58.519>software <00:43:58.861>out <00:43:59.203>there

981
00:43:59.355 --> 00:44:01.675
<00:43:59.355>that <00:43:59.635>need <00:43:59.915>needs <00:44:00.195>maintaining <00:44:00.475>by <00:44:00.755>somebody.

982
00:44:02.375 --> 00:44:05.755
<00:44:02.375>So <00:44:02.515>if <00:44:02.655>you <00:44:02.795>think <00:44:02.935>you <00:44:03.075>cannot <00:44:03.215>be <00:44:03.355>part <00:44:03.495>of <00:44:03.635>the <00:44:03.775>one

983
00:44:05.775 --> 00:44:08.275
<00:44:05.775>of <00:44:06.008>1000 <00:44:06.241>react <00:44:06.475>developers <00:44:06.708>to <00:44:06.941>stand <00:44:07.175>out,

984
00:44:08.805 --> 00:44:10.355
<00:44:08.805>maybe <00:44:09.153>concentrate <00:44:09.502>on <00:44:09.851>that <00:44:10.200>market.

985
00:44:10.465 --> 00:44:12.395
<00:44:10.465>It's <00:44:10.665>not, <00:44:10.865>it's <00:44:11.065>not <00:44:11.265>snazzy, <00:44:11.465>it's <00:44:11.665>not <00:44:11.865>fun,

986
00:44:12.745 --> 00:44:14.315
<00:44:12.745>it's <00:44:12.978>not <00:44:13.211>like <00:44:13.444>the <00:44:13.678>cool <00:44:13.911>kids <00:44:14.145>thing,

987
00:44:14.655 --> 00:44:16.235
<00:44:14.655>but <00:44:14.888>it <00:44:15.121>actually <00:44:15.355>will <00:44:15.588>get <00:44:15.821>your <00:44:16.055>paycheck

988
00:44:16.235 --> 00:44:18.395
<00:44:16.235>and <00:44:16.410>you <00:44:16.585>can <00:44:16.760>do <00:44:16.935>things <00:44:17.110>in <00:44:17.285>your <00:44:17.460>free <00:44:17.635>time

989
00:44:18.495 --> 00:44:20.515
<00:44:18.495>or <00:44:18.694>have <00:44:18.895>a <00:44:19.095>social <00:44:19.295>life <00:44:19.495>on <00:44:19.694>the <00:44:19.895>side.

990
00:44:20.515 --> 00:44:22.115
<00:44:20.515>That's <00:44:20.748>also <00:44:20.981>an <00:44:21.214>interesting <00:44:21.448>thing <00:44:21.681>to <00:44:21.915>do.

991
00:44:23.395 --> 00:44:24.925
<00:44:23.395>Yeah. <00:44:24.083>Yeah. <00:44:24.772>Yeah.

992
00:44:24.925 --> 00:44:27.765
<00:44:24.925>So <00:44:25.100>I, <00:44:25.275>the, <00:44:25.450>the <00:44:25.625>bootcamp <00:44:25.800>thing, <00:44:25.975>like, <00:44:26.150>I <00:44:26.325>think

993
00:44:28.435 --> 00:44:31.565
<00:44:28.435>there's <00:44:28.668>like <00:44:28.901>validity <00:44:29.134>to <00:44:29.368>doing <00:44:29.601>that, <00:44:29.835>right?

994
00:44:31.955 --> 00:44:35.925
<00:44:31.955>Like <00:44:32.188>for <00:44:32.421>this, <00:44:32.654>this <00:44:32.888>isn't <00:44:33.121>everyone's <00:44:33.355>passion

995
00:44:36.265 --> 00:44:38.725
<00:44:36.265>and <00:44:36.381>I <00:44:36.498>think <00:44:36.615>it's <00:44:36.731>totally <00:44:36.848>valid <00:44:36.964>that <00:44:37.081>it <00:44:37.198>can <00:44:37.315>just <00:44:37.431>be <00:44:37.548>a <00:44:37.665>job.

996
00:44:38.915 --> 00:44:41.045
<00:44:38.915>Like <00:44:39.042>you <00:44:39.169>can, <00:44:39.296>you <00:44:39.424>can <00:44:39.551>turn <00:44:39.678>up, <00:44:39.805>you <00:44:39.933>can <00:44:40.060>do <00:44:40.187>the <00:44:40.315>work

997
00:44:41.065 --> 00:44:43.815
<00:44:41.065>and <00:44:41.220>you <00:44:41.376>can <00:44:41.531>go <00:44:41.687>home, <00:44:41.842>is <00:44:41.998>like <00:44:42.153>a <00:44:42.309>very <00:44:42.465>like,

998
00:44:43.815 --> 00:44:45.015
<00:44:43.815>totally <00:44:44.175>valid <00:44:44.535>thing, <00:44:44.895>right?

999
00:44:45.955 --> 00:44:50.165
<00:44:45.955>Um, <00:44:46.130>but <00:44:46.305>yeah, <00:44:46.480>like, <00:44:46.654>uh, <00:44:46.830>a <00:44:47.005>lot <00:44:47.180>of <00:44:47.355>people

1000
00:44:51.315 --> 00:44:55.845
<00:44:51.315>will <00:44:51.470>go <00:44:51.626>through <00:44:51.781>like <00:44:51.937>a, <00:44:52.092>um, <00:44:52.248>computer <00:44:52.403>science <00:44:52.559>degree, <00:44:52.715>uh,

1001
00:44:56.105 --> 00:44:58.285
<00:44:56.105>or <00:44:56.338>spend <00:44:56.571>a <00:44:56.805>lot <00:44:57.038>of <00:44:57.271>time, <00:44:57.505>uh,

1002
00:44:58.395 --> 00:45:02.595
<00:44:58.395>working <00:44:58.570>their <00:44:58.745>way <00:44:58.920>out <00:44:59.095>the <00:44:59.270>career <00:44:59.445>ladder, <00:44:59.620>like <00:44:59.795>to,

1003
00:45:03.645 --> 00:45:08.505
<00:45:03.645>uh, <00:45:03.785>enter <00:45:03.925>into <00:45:04.065>a <00:45:04.205>senior <00:45:04.345>role <00:45:04.485>requires <00:45:04.625>some <00:45:04.765>level <00:45:04.905>of <00:45:05.045>input

1004
00:45:08.525 --> 00:45:09.825
<00:45:08.525>and <00:45:08.817>some <00:45:09.110>level <00:45:09.402>of <00:45:09.694>knowledge.

1005
00:45:10.085 --> 00:45:11.585
<00:45:10.085>Um, <00:45:10.310>and <00:45:10.535>so <00:45:10.760>you <00:45:10.985>can <00:45:11.210>get <00:45:11.435>that

1006
00:45:11.585 --> 00:45:13.505
<00:45:11.585>through <00:45:11.935>like <00:45:12.285>computer <00:45:12.635>science <00:45:12.985>degrees.

1007
00:45:13.565 --> 00:45:15.185
<00:45:13.565>You're <00:45:13.765>not <00:45:13.965>gonna <00:45:14.165>get <00:45:14.365>that <00:45:14.565>from <00:45:14.765>a <00:45:14.965>bootcamp.

1008
00:45:16.005 --> 00:45:19.025
<00:45:16.005>Um, <00:45:16.160>but <00:45:16.316>you <00:45:16.471>are <00:45:16.627>going <00:45:16.782>to <00:45:16.938>potentially <00:45:17.093>get <00:45:17.249>your <00:45:17.405>way

1009
00:45:19.025 --> 00:45:20.265
<00:45:19.025>to <00:45:19.304>an <00:45:19.583>entry <00:45:19.862>level <00:45:20.141>job,

1010
00:45:20.445 --> 00:45:22.465
<00:45:20.445>and <00:45:20.678>that's <00:45:20.911>a <00:45:21.145>totally <00:45:21.378>fine <00:45:21.611>stepping <00:45:21.845>stone.

1011
00:45:23.005 --> 00:45:24.185
<00:45:23.005>But, <00:45:23.270>but <00:45:23.536>the, <00:45:23.801>the <00:45:24.067>question

1012
00:45:24.185 --> 00:45:25.345
<00:45:24.185>is <00:45:24.334>like, <00:45:24.483>where <00:45:24.632>do <00:45:24.781>you <00:45:24.930>go <00:45:25.079>from <00:45:25.229>there?

1013
00:45:26.735 --> 00:45:28.355
<00:45:26.735>Um, <00:45:27.015>and <00:45:27.295>yeah, <00:45:27.575>you're <00:45:27.855>totally <00:45:28.135>right.

1014
00:45:28.355 --> 00:45:31.315
<00:45:28.355>There's <00:45:28.495>gonna <00:45:28.635>be <00:45:28.775>a <00:45:28.915>lot <00:45:29.055>of <00:45:29.195>code <00:45:29.335>that <00:45:29.475>isn't <00:45:29.615>the <00:45:29.755>kind

1015
00:45:31.315 --> 00:45:32.555
<00:45:31.315>of <00:45:31.594>staff <00:45:31.873>taught <00:45:32.152>in <00:45:32.431>bootcamps

1016
00:45:32.555 --> 00:45:34.115
<00:45:32.555>and <00:45:32.788>it's <00:45:33.021>not, <00:45:33.254>potentially <00:45:33.488>not <00:45:33.721>the <00:45:33.955>stuff

1017
00:45:34.115 --> 00:45:38.425
<00:45:34.115>that's <00:45:34.290>taught <00:45:34.464>in <00:45:34.640>CS <00:45:34.814>degrees, <00:45:34.990>um, <00:45:35.165>that <00:45:35.339>is <00:45:35.515>just,

1018
00:45:38.925 --> 00:45:43.825
<00:45:38.925>uh, <00:45:39.065>yeah, <00:45:39.205>like <00:45:39.345>kind <00:45:39.485>of <00:45:39.625>groundwork, <00:45:39.765>kind <00:45:39.905>of, <00:45:40.045>you <00:45:40.185>know, <00:45:40.325>the,

1019
00:45:43.825 --> 00:45:47.145
<00:45:43.825>the, <00:45:44.024>the <00:45:44.225>janitorial <00:45:44.424>work <00:45:44.625>of <00:45:44.825>like <00:45:45.024>maintaining, <00:45:45.225>uh,

1020
00:45:47.525 --> 00:45:48.745
<00:45:47.525>legacy <00:45:48.074>code <00:45:48.623>bases.

1021
00:45:49.745 --> 00:45:53.065
<00:45:49.745>Learning <00:45:49.872>to <00:45:49.999>navigate <00:45:50.126>those <00:45:50.254>big <00:45:50.381>code <00:45:50.508>bases <00:45:50.635>is <00:45:50.763>like <00:45:50.890>a <00:45:51.017>skill <00:45:51.145>in

1022
00:45:53.065 --> 00:45:55.545
<00:45:53.065>of <00:45:53.298>itself <00:45:53.531>that's, <00:45:53.765>that's <00:45:53.998>potentially <00:45:54.231>a <00:45:54.465>specialization

1023
00:45:55.545 --> 00:45:57.585
<00:45:55.545>that <00:45:55.778>you <00:45:56.011>can, <00:45:56.245>uh, <00:45:56.478>focus <00:45:56.711>on. <00:45:56.945>Right.

1024
00:45:57.975 --> 00:46:00.665
<00:45:57.975>Cool. <00:45:58.150>Well, <00:45:58.325>let's <00:45:58.500>focus <00:45:58.674>on <00:45:58.850>getting <00:45:59.025>a <00:45:59.200>pint <00:45:59.375>in

1025
00:46:00.665 --> 00:46:02.665
<00:46:00.665>and, <00:46:00.820>uh, <00:46:00.976>actually <00:46:01.131>getting, <00:46:01.287>uh, <00:46:01.442>yes <00:46:01.598>and <00:46:01.753>doing <00:46:01.909>something <00:46:02.065>else.

1026
00:46:03.325 --> 00:46:04.425
<00:46:03.325>It <00:46:03.490>was <00:46:03.654>great <00:46:03.820>to <00:46:03.985>talk <00:46:04.150>to <00:46:04.315>you

1027
00:46:04.645 --> 00:46:06.305
<00:46:04.645>and, <00:46:04.845>uh, <00:46:05.045>I <00:46:05.245>think <00:46:05.445>we're <00:46:05.645>gonna <00:46:05.845>do <00:46:06.045>more

1028
00:46:06.305 --> 00:46:07.585
<00:46:06.305>because <00:46:06.593>this <00:46:06.881>is <00:46:07.169>really <00:46:07.457>fun

1029
00:46:07.645 --> 00:46:09.025
<00:46:07.645>and <00:46:07.955>just, <00:46:08.266>it's <00:46:08.576>an <00:46:08.887>interesting,

1030
00:46:09.105 --> 00:46:10.305
<00:46:09.105>I <00:46:09.285>think <00:46:09.465>there's <00:46:09.645>so <00:46:09.825>many <00:46:10.005>cool <00:46:10.185>things.

1031
00:46:10.405 --> 00:46:12.865
<00:46:10.405>It <00:46:10.532>would <00:46:10.659>be <00:46:10.786>fun <00:46:10.914>to <00:46:11.041>get <00:46:11.168>like <00:46:11.295>a <00:46:11.423>react, <00:46:11.550>uh, <00:46:11.677>uh, <00:46:11.805>uh,

1032
00:46:12.895 --> 00:46:14.385
<00:46:12.895>like <00:46:13.565>proponent <00:46:14.236>in

1033
00:46:14.385 --> 00:46:16.785
<00:46:14.385>and <00:46:14.585>basically <00:46:14.785>say <00:46:14.985>like, <00:46:15.185>Hey, <00:46:15.385>like <00:46:15.585>you, <00:46:15.785>you're,

1034
00:46:16.785 --> 00:46:18.065
<00:46:16.785>you're <00:46:17.073>talking <00:46:17.361>total <00:46:17.649>b******s <00:46:17.937>here.

1035
00:46:18.065 --> 00:46:19.665
<00:46:18.065>Like <00:46:18.415>what's, <00:46:18.765>what, <00:46:19.115>what, <00:46:19.465>here's,

1036
00:46:19.665 --> 00:46:21.625
<00:46:19.665>here's <00:46:19.898>10,000 <00:46:20.131>proofs <00:46:20.365>that <00:46:20.598>can <00:46:20.831>be <00:46:21.065>done.

1037
00:46:22.245 --> 00:46:24.105
<00:46:22.245>Uh, <00:46:22.478>I <00:46:22.711>think <00:46:22.944>it's <00:46:23.178>an <00:46:23.411>interesting <00:46:23.645>bit

1038
00:46:24.365 --> 00:46:26.865
<00:46:24.365>and <00:46:24.540>uh, <00:46:24.714>uh, <00:46:24.890>I <00:46:25.064>think <00:46:25.240>it's <00:46:25.415>also <00:46:25.589>fun <00:46:25.765>that,

1039
00:46:26.895 --> 00:46:28.505
<00:46:26.895>that <00:46:27.095>No, <00:46:27.295>I'm <00:46:27.495>not <00:46:27.695>gonna <00:46:27.895>go <00:46:28.095>through <00:46:28.295>it.

1040
00:46:28.505 --> 00:46:30.265
<00:46:28.505>We, <00:46:28.680>we, <00:46:28.855>we <00:46:29.030>could, <00:46:29.205>we <00:46:29.380>could <00:46:29.555>talk <00:46:29.730>for <00:46:29.905>hours.

1041
00:46:30.505 --> 00:46:32.665
<00:46:30.505>'cause <00:46:30.660>I <00:46:30.816>was <00:46:30.971>just <00:46:31.127>wondering <00:46:31.282>like <00:46:31.438>is <00:46:31.593>there <00:46:31.749>any <00:46:31.905>framework

1042
00:46:32.665 --> 00:46:34.985
<00:46:32.665>that <00:46:32.805>got <00:46:32.945>really <00:46:33.085>big <00:46:33.225>that <00:46:33.365>didn't <00:46:33.505>start <00:46:33.645>in <00:46:33.785>a <00:46:33.925>large <00:46:34.065>company?

1043
00:46:35.565 --> 00:46:37.505
<00:46:35.565>That's <00:46:35.798>is <00:46:36.031>an <00:46:36.265>interesting <00:46:36.498>question <00:46:36.731>as <00:46:36.965>well.

1044
00:46:37.505 --> 00:46:40.305
<00:46:37.505>Like, <00:46:37.705>because <00:46:37.905>by <00:46:38.105>making <00:46:38.305>lots <00:46:38.505>of <00:46:38.705>React <00:46:38.905>developers,

1045
00:46:40.455 --> 00:46:43.305
<00:46:40.455>meta <00:46:40.610>also <00:46:40.766>made <00:46:40.921>a <00:46:41.077>lot <00:46:41.232>of <00:46:41.388>people <00:46:41.543>dependent <00:46:41.699>on <00:46:41.855>meta.

1046
00:46:44.045 --> 00:46:46.745
<00:46:44.045>Yes. <00:46:44.245>So <00:46:44.445>that's <00:46:44.645>something <00:46:44.845>to <00:46:45.045>remember <00:46:45.245>as <00:46:45.445>well.

1047
00:46:46.885 --> 00:46:49.345
<00:46:46.885>So <00:46:47.012>I <00:46:47.139>think <00:46:47.266>jQuery <00:46:47.394>was <00:46:47.521>the <00:46:47.648>last <00:46:47.775>one <00:46:47.903>that <00:46:48.030>came <00:46:48.157>outta <00:46:48.285>nowhere

1048
00:46:49.485 --> 00:46:52.305
<00:46:49.485>and <00:46:49.625>came <00:46:49.765>a <00:46:49.905>from <00:46:50.045>one <00:46:50.185>person <00:46:50.325>and <00:46:50.465>became <00:46:50.605>like <00:46:50.745>the <00:46:50.885>winner.

1049
00:46:53.025 --> 00:46:54.585
<00:46:53.025>'cause <00:46:53.258>back <00:46:53.491>then <00:46:53.725>I <00:46:53.958>worked <00:46:54.191>on <00:46:54.425>YUI

1050
00:46:54.585 --> 00:46:56.145
<00:46:54.585>and <00:46:54.785>I <00:46:54.985>thought <00:46:55.185>it <00:46:55.385>was <00:46:55.585>the <00:46:55.785>better <00:46:55.985>solution,

1051
00:46:56.145 --> 00:46:59.105
<00:46:56.145>but <00:46:56.495>it <00:46:56.845>was <00:46:57.195>too <00:46:57.545>brainy

1052
00:46:59.105 --> 00:47:01.665
<00:46:59.105>or <00:46:59.260>too <00:46:59.416>like, <00:46:59.571>too, <00:46:59.727>uh, <00:46:59.882>uh, <00:47:00.038>uh, <00:47:00.193>too <00:47:00.349>like <00:47:00.505>academic

1053
00:47:01.665 --> 00:47:04.585
<00:47:01.665>because <00:47:01.840>it <00:47:02.015>came <00:47:02.190>with <00:47:02.365>huge <00:47:02.540>documentation <00:47:02.715>rather <00:47:02.890>than <00:47:03.065>like,

1054
00:47:04.645 --> 00:47:05.825
<00:47:04.645>here's <00:47:04.910>five <00:47:05.176>lines <00:47:05.441>of <00:47:05.707>code

1055
00:47:05.825 --> 00:47:07.305
<00:47:05.825>that <00:47:05.991>do <00:47:06.158>the <00:47:06.324>stuff <00:47:06.491>that <00:47:06.657>you <00:47:06.823>should <00:47:06.990>be <00:47:07.156>doing.

1056
00:47:07.845 --> 00:47:10.625
<00:47:07.845>But <00:47:08.020>um, <00:47:08.194>yeah, <00:47:08.370>it's, <00:47:08.544>it's, <00:47:08.720>it's <00:47:08.895>an <00:47:09.069>interesting <00:47:09.245>bit

1057
00:47:10.625 --> 00:47:15.225
<00:47:10.625>that <00:47:10.741>there's <00:47:10.858>a <00:47:10.975>lot <00:47:11.091>of <00:47:11.208>like, <00:47:11.325>uh, <00:47:11.441>that's <00:47:11.558>probably <00:47:11.675>like <00:47:11.791>a, <00:47:11.908>a <00:47:12.025>a,

1058
00:47:15.545 --> 00:47:18.665
<00:47:15.545>a <00:47:15.700>veneer <00:47:15.856>of <00:47:16.011>like, <00:47:16.167>Hey, <00:47:16.322>the <00:47:16.478>company <00:47:16.633>X <00:47:16.789>does <00:47:16.945>it

1059
00:47:18.725 --> 00:47:20.145
<00:47:18.725>and <00:47:18.980>we <00:47:19.236>build <00:47:19.491>it <00:47:19.747>for <00:47:20.003>ourselves.

1060
00:47:20.205 --> 00:47:23.385
<00:47:20.205>So <00:47:20.321>if <00:47:20.438>you <00:47:20.555>wanna <00:47:20.671>be <00:47:20.788>professional <00:47:20.904>like <00:47:21.021>us, <00:47:21.138>you <00:47:21.255>have <00:47:21.371>to <00:47:21.488>use <00:47:21.605>it.

1061
00:47:23.845 --> 00:47:25.785
<00:47:23.845>And <00:47:24.194>not <00:47:24.544>everybody's <00:47:24.895>building <00:47:25.245>Facebook.

1062
00:47:25.885 --> 00:47:28.985
<00:47:25.885>So <00:47:26.060>probably <00:47:26.235>the <00:47:26.410>issues <00:47:26.585>that <00:47:26.760>react, <00:47:26.935>solve <00:47:27.110>for <00:47:27.285>Facebook

1063
00:47:29.585 --> 00:47:31.645
<00:47:29.585>is <00:47:29.740>not <00:47:29.896>gonna <00:47:30.051>be <00:47:30.207>an <00:47:30.362>issue <00:47:30.518>in <00:47:30.673>your <00:47:30.829>personal <00:47:30.985>block

1064
00:47:31.705 --> 00:47:34.365
<00:47:31.705>or <00:47:31.880>in <00:47:32.055>the <00:47:32.230>ticket <00:47:32.404>selling <00:47:32.580>site <00:47:32.755>that <00:47:32.930>your <00:47:33.105>website

1065
00:47:34.435 --> 00:47:36.045
<00:47:34.435>that <00:47:34.668>your <00:47:34.901>company <00:47:35.134>has <00:47:35.368>with <00:47:35.601>50 <00:47:35.835>users.

1066
00:47:36.835 --> 00:47:40.125
<00:47:36.835>Yeah. <00:47:36.990>So <00:47:37.146>yeah, <00:47:37.301>that <00:47:37.457>scale <00:47:37.612>dream <00:47:37.768>is <00:47:37.923>always <00:47:38.079>one <00:47:38.235>thing

1067
00:47:40.125 --> 00:47:41.325
<00:47:40.125>that <00:47:40.305>always <00:47:40.485>cracks <00:47:40.665>me <00:47:40.845>up <00:47:41.025>as <00:47:41.205>well,

1068
00:47:41.325 --> 00:47:42.965
<00:47:41.325>if <00:47:41.524>you <00:47:41.725>use <00:47:41.924>this <00:47:42.125>scaling <00:47:42.325>is <00:47:42.524>built <00:47:42.725>in

1069
00:47:42.965 --> 00:47:44.445
<00:47:42.965>by <00:47:43.231>default, <00:47:43.497>you're <00:47:43.764>like, <00:47:44.030>eh, <00:47:44.297>it's

1070
00:47:44.445 --> 00:47:46.165
<00:47:44.445>The <00:47:44.645>same <00:47:44.845>with <00:47:45.045>like <00:47:45.245>Kubernetes <00:47:45.445>and <00:47:45.645>stuff, <00:47:45.845>right?

1071
00:47:46.315 --> 00:47:49.285
<00:47:46.315>It's <00:47:46.515>like <00:47:46.715>it <00:47:46.915>exists <00:47:47.115>across <00:47:47.315>the <00:47:47.515>entire <00:47:47.715>industry.

1072
00:47:49.305 --> 00:47:53.285
<00:47:49.305>Is <00:47:49.480>this <00:47:49.654>idea <00:47:49.830>of, <00:47:50.004>uh, <00:47:50.180>operating <00:47:50.355>at <00:47:50.529>the <00:47:50.705>scale

1073
00:47:53.305 --> 00:47:54.845
<00:47:53.305>of <00:47:53.651>these <00:47:53.997>trillion <00:47:54.344>dollar <00:47:54.691>companies.

1074
00:47:55.945 --> 00:47:58.205
<00:47:55.945>Uh, <00:47:56.178>you <00:47:56.411>know, <00:47:56.645>it's <00:47:56.878>sort <00:47:57.111>of <00:47:57.345>fascinating.

1075
00:47:59.425 --> 00:48:03.005
<00:47:59.425>One <00:47:59.552>can <00:47:59.679>dream <00:47:59.806>maybe <00:47:59.934>maybe <00:48:00.061>writing <00:48:00.188>a <00:48:00.315>React <00:48:00.443>app <00:48:00.570>will <00:48:00.697>get <00:48:00.825>you

1076
00:48:03.005 --> 00:48:04.365
<00:48:03.005>the, <00:48:03.311>uh, <00:48:03.617>to <00:48:03.923>the <00:48:04.229>point

1077
00:48:04.365 --> 00:48:06.445
<00:48:04.365>of <00:48:04.598>being <00:48:04.831>a <00:48:05.064>trillion <00:48:05.298>dollar <00:48:05.531>company <00:48:05.765>million.

1078
00:48:06.725 --> 00:48:07.925
<00:48:06.725>I <00:48:06.879>think <00:48:07.033>that <00:48:07.187>it's <00:48:07.342>the <00:48:07.496>other <00:48:07.650>way <00:48:07.805>round

1079
00:48:08.075 --> 00:48:09.165
<00:48:08.075>more <00:48:08.320>than <00:48:08.565>that, <00:48:08.810>but <00:48:09.056>yeah.

1080
00:48:10.635 --> 00:48:12.965
<00:48:10.635>Well, <00:48:10.790>I <00:48:10.946>have <00:48:11.101>to <00:48:11.257>say <00:48:11.412>I'm <00:48:11.568>happy <00:48:11.723>being <00:48:11.879>a <00:48:12.035>developer

1081
00:48:12.965 --> 00:48:15.365
<00:48:12.965>that's <00:48:13.120>been <00:48:13.276>around <00:48:13.431>for <00:48:13.587>25 <00:48:13.742>years <00:48:13.898>and <00:48:14.053>got <00:48:14.209>the <00:48:14.365>salary

1082
00:48:15.585 --> 00:48:17.205
<00:48:15.585>and <00:48:15.818>is <00:48:16.051>not <00:48:16.285>a <00:48:16.518>trillion <00:48:16.751>dollar <00:48:16.985>company.

1083
00:48:18.335 --> 00:48:20.925
<00:48:18.335>Maybe <00:48:18.475>my <00:48:18.615>dreams <00:48:18.755>are <00:48:18.895>are <00:48:19.035>lower, <00:48:19.175>but <00:48:19.315>like, <00:48:19.455>I <00:48:19.595>don't <00:48:19.735>know.

1084
00:48:20.925 --> 00:48:25.885
<00:48:20.925>Like, <00:48:21.080>I <00:48:21.236>mean <00:48:21.391>then, <00:48:21.547>then <00:48:21.702>again, <00:48:21.858>be <00:48:22.013>leaving <00:48:22.169>Microsoft <00:48:22.325>America

1085
00:48:26.105 --> 00:48:28.925
<00:48:26.105>and <00:48:26.232>going <00:48:26.359>to <00:48:26.486>Germany <00:48:26.614>and <00:48:26.741>telling <00:48:26.868>them <00:48:26.995>my <00:48:27.123>salary <00:48:27.250>that <00:48:27.377>I <00:48:27.505>had

1086
00:48:28.925 --> 00:48:31.525
<00:48:28.925>before <00:48:29.041>was <00:48:29.158>also <00:48:29.275>a <00:48:29.391>shock <00:48:29.508>to <00:48:29.625>the <00:48:29.741>system <00:48:29.858>for <00:48:29.975>a <00:48:30.091>lot <00:48:30.208>of <00:48:30.325>people.

1087
00:48:32.105 --> 00:48:34.405
<00:48:32.105>So <00:48:32.280>there's <00:48:32.455>like <00:48:32.630>the <00:48:32.805>middle <00:48:32.980>ground <00:48:33.155>of <00:48:33.330>like <00:48:33.505>trying

1088
00:48:34.405 --> 00:48:36.605
<00:48:34.405>to <00:48:34.638>find <00:48:34.871>happiness <00:48:35.105>in <00:48:35.338>just, <00:48:35.571>yeah, <00:48:35.805>okay,

1089
00:48:36.755 --> 00:48:38.285
<00:48:36.755>what <00:48:36.927>do <00:48:37.099>I <00:48:37.271>need <00:48:37.443>to <00:48:37.615>spend <00:48:37.787>where <00:48:37.959>I <00:48:38.132>live?

1090
00:48:38.285 --> 00:48:40.605
<00:48:38.285>Rather <00:48:38.460>than <00:48:38.634>like, <00:48:38.810>how <00:48:38.984>much <00:48:39.160>money <00:48:39.335>do <00:48:39.509>I <00:48:39.685>earn?

1091
00:48:40.605 --> 00:48:41.845
<00:48:40.605>Because <00:48:40.828>I <00:48:41.051>should <00:48:41.274>get <00:48:41.497>the <00:48:41.721>same

1092
00:48:41.845 --> 00:48:43.525
<00:48:41.845>that <00:48:42.078>a <00:48:42.311>guy <00:48:42.544>in <00:48:42.778>San <00:48:43.011>Francisco <00:48:43.245>gets

1093
00:48:43.675 --> 00:48:46.765
<00:48:43.675>because <00:48:43.802>he <00:48:43.929>spends <00:48:44.056>80% <00:48:44.184>of <00:48:44.311>his <00:48:44.438>salary <00:48:44.565>on <00:48:44.693>his, <00:48:44.820>on <00:48:44.947>his <00:48:45.075>rent.

1094
00:48:47.435 --> 00:48:48.845
<00:48:47.435>Yeah. <00:48:47.752>Right? <00:48:48.069>It's <00:48:48.386>chasing <00:48:48.703>numbers

1095
00:48:49.105 --> 00:48:50.885
<00:48:49.105>and <00:48:49.571>like <00:48:50.038>what, <00:48:50.505>what's

1096
00:48:50.885 --> 00:48:55.565
<00:48:50.885>what <00:48:50.992>goods <00:48:51.100>a <00:48:51.208>a <00:48:51.315>number <00:48:51.423>in <00:48:51.531>a <00:48:51.638>bank <00:48:51.746>when <00:48:51.854>you <00:48:51.961>can, <00:48:52.069>you <00:48:52.177>know, <00:48:52.285>I,

1097
00:48:56.915 --> 00:48:58.875
<00:48:56.915>I <00:48:57.148>live <00:48:57.381>in, <00:48:57.615>uh, <00:48:57.848>socialist <00:48:58.081>Europe, <00:48:58.315>right?

1098
00:48:58.935 --> 00:49:00.435
<00:48:58.935>We, <00:48:59.272>we <00:48:59.610>have <00:48:59.947>a <00:49:00.285>affordable

1099
00:49:00.775 --> 00:49:03.635
<00:49:00.775>or <00:49:00.950>free <00:49:01.125>healthcare <00:49:01.300>that, <00:49:01.475>that's <00:49:01.650>more <00:49:01.825>important <00:49:02.000>to <00:49:02.175>me.

1100
00:49:03.795 --> 00:49:05.115
<00:49:03.795>I <00:49:03.993>don't <00:49:04.191>want <00:49:04.389>my <00:49:04.587>neighbors <00:49:04.785>getting <00:49:04.982>sick.

1101
00:49:05.415 --> 00:49:09.235
<00:49:05.415>Uh, <00:49:05.590>I'm, <00:49:05.765>I'm <00:49:05.940>quite <00:49:06.115>happy <00:49:06.290>paying <00:49:06.465>tax <00:49:06.640>to <00:49:06.815>so

1102
00:49:09.235 --> 00:49:11.035
<00:49:09.235>that <00:49:09.468>my <00:49:09.701>neighbors <00:49:09.935>are <00:49:10.168>free <00:49:10.401>of <00:49:10.635>illness

1103
00:49:11.215 --> 00:49:13.555
<00:49:11.215>and <00:49:11.448>well <00:49:11.681>educated, <00:49:11.915>at <00:49:12.148>least <00:49:12.381>the <00:49:12.615>theory

1104
00:49:14.345 --> 00:49:16.035
<00:49:14.345>Talking <00:49:14.578>to <00:49:14.811>which <00:49:15.044>that <00:49:15.278>worked <00:49:15.511>with <00:49:15.745>us.

1105
00:49:16.135 --> 00:49:18.275
<00:49:16.135>So <00:49:16.262>I, <00:49:16.389>I <00:49:16.516>thank <00:49:16.644>you <00:49:16.771>very <00:49:16.898>much <00:49:17.025>for <00:49:17.153>this. <00:49:17.280>This <00:49:17.407>was <00:49:17.535>great.

1106
00:49:18.895 --> 00:49:21.715
<00:49:18.895>Uh, <00:49:19.050>so <00:49:19.206>this <00:49:19.361>was <00:49:19.517>Coffee <00:49:19.672>with <00:49:19.828>developers <00:49:19.983>with <00:49:20.139>Keith <00:49:20.295>Circle.

1107
00:49:22.135 --> 00:49:25.915
<00:49:22.135>Uh, <00:49:22.262>we're <00:49:22.389>gonna <00:49:22.516>be <00:49:22.644>circling <00:49:22.771>back <00:49:22.898>on <00:49:23.025>that <00:49:23.153>in <00:49:23.280>the <00:49:23.407>near <00:49:23.535>future.

1108
00:49:26.295 --> 00:49:28.355
<00:49:26.295>And, <00:49:26.495>uh, <00:49:26.695>thanks <00:49:26.895>very <00:49:27.095>much. <00:49:27.295>This <00:49:27.495>was <00:49:27.695>great.

1109
00:49:28.925 --> 00:49:30.275
<00:49:28.925>Thank <00:49:29.127>you. <00:49:29.330>It <00:49:29.532>was <00:49:29.735>been <00:49:29.937>a <00:49:30.140>pleasure.