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Hillary.

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<00:01:06.755>Daniel <00:01:07.313>Craig. <00:01:07.871>Hello.

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<00:02:04.115>for <00:02:04.330>your <00:02:04.547>time <00:02:04.762>and <00:02:04.979>really <00:02:05.195>welcome.

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<00:02:23.795>you <00:02:23.935>probably <00:02:24.075>see <00:02:24.215>me <00:02:24.355>on <00:02:24.495>it <00:02:24.635>a <00:02:24.775>lot <00:02:24.915>of <00:02:25.055>the <00:02:25.195>time.

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<00:02:25.555>It's <00:02:25.730>my <00:02:25.905>face <00:02:26.080>up <00:02:26.255>front <00:02:26.430>and <00:02:26.605>sorry <00:02:26.780>about <00:02:26.955>that,

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<00:02:29.595>and <00:02:29.828>actually <00:02:30.061>be <00:02:30.295>on, <00:02:30.528>on <00:02:30.761>your <00:02:30.995>show.

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<00:02:41.995>with <00:02:42.150>Hung <00:02:42.306>Lee, <00:02:42.461>the <00:02:42.617>guy <00:02:42.772>from, <00:02:42.928>uh, <00:02:43.083>recruiting <00:02:43.239>Brain <00:02:43.395>food,

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<00:02:55.275>because, <00:02:55.430>uh, <00:02:55.586>even <00:02:55.741>that <00:02:55.897>people <00:02:56.052>are <00:02:56.208>daily <00:02:56.363>in <00:02:56.519>their <00:02:56.675>business

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<00:02:58.735>and <00:02:58.910>that <00:02:59.085>think <00:02:59.260>they <00:02:59.435>do <00:02:59.610>the <00:02:59.785>right <00:02:59.960>things, <00:03:00.135>right.

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<00:03:01.905>Uh, <00:03:02.185>the <00:03:02.465>other <00:03:02.745>side <00:03:03.025>often <00:03:03.305>interpreted

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<00:03:13.705>My <00:03:13.880>name's <00:03:14.055>Daniel <00:03:14.230>Cranny, <00:03:14.405>and <00:03:14.580>I'm <00:03:14.755>from <00:03:14.930>the <00:03:15.105>uk.

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<00:03:15.765>I <00:03:15.940>can <00:03:16.114>actually <00:03:16.290>say <00:03:16.464>for <00:03:16.640>once <00:03:16.815>Sunny <00:03:16.989>Old <00:03:17.165>England.

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<00:03:17.985>Um, <00:03:18.140>usually <00:03:18.296>that's <00:03:18.451>ironic <00:03:18.607>because <00:03:18.762>it's, <00:03:18.918>it <00:03:19.073>rains <00:03:19.229>so <00:03:19.385>much,

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<00:03:20.485>but <00:03:20.660>it's <00:03:20.835>actually <00:03:21.010>sunny <00:03:21.185>today, <00:03:21.360>so <00:03:21.535>that's <00:03:21.710>really <00:03:21.885>nice.

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<00:03:22.665>Um, <00:03:22.945>I'm <00:03:23.225>a <00:03:23.505>developer <00:03:23.785>advocate <00:03:24.065>here,

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<00:03:30.365>before <00:03:30.545>that <00:03:30.725>I <00:03:30.905>was <00:03:31.085>in <00:03:31.265>a <00:03:31.445>band,

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<00:03:31.825>so <00:03:31.981>I've <00:03:32.138>done <00:03:32.295>a <00:03:32.452>lot <00:03:32.609>of <00:03:32.766>different <00:03:32.923>things.

79
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<00:03:33.225>So, <00:03:33.364>um, <00:03:33.505>we'll <00:03:33.644>get <00:03:33.785>into <00:03:33.924>it <00:03:34.065>a <00:03:34.204>little <00:03:34.345>bit <00:03:34.484>later <00:03:34.625>on.

80
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<00:03:35.485>But <00:03:35.612>I <00:03:35.739>think <00:03:35.866>that's <00:03:35.994>very <00:03:36.121>much, <00:03:36.248>uh, <00:03:36.375>what's <00:03:36.503>prepared <00:03:36.630>me <00:03:36.757>to <00:03:36.885>kind

81
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<00:03:38.045>of <00:03:38.185>do <00:03:38.325>the <00:03:38.465>job <00:03:38.605>of <00:03:38.745>developer <00:03:38.885>relations <00:03:39.025>that, <00:03:39.165>um, <00:03:39.305>you <00:03:39.445>know,

82
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<00:03:41.165>having <00:03:41.398>done <00:03:41.631>multiple <00:03:41.864>different <00:03:42.098>things <00:03:42.331>means <00:03:42.565>you,

83
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<00:03:43.545>you <00:03:43.778>feel <00:03:44.011>you <00:03:44.245>can <00:03:44.478>bring <00:03:44.711>together <00:03:44.945>some

84
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<00:03:45.204>of <00:03:45.380>those <00:03:45.554>different <00:03:45.730>parts <00:03:45.904>of, <00:03:46.079>of <00:03:46.255>the <00:03:46.429>company, <00:03:46.605>um,

85
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<00:03:47.825>and <00:03:48.000>of <00:03:48.174>the <00:03:48.350>organization <00:03:48.524>and <00:03:48.700>people <00:03:48.875>with <00:03:49.049>different <00:03:49.225>skills.

86
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<00:03:50.065>So <00:03:50.187>yeah, <00:03:50.309>we'll <00:03:50.430>get <00:03:50.553>into <00:03:50.675>that <00:03:50.797>in <00:03:50.918>a <00:03:51.041>little <00:03:51.163>bit,

87
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<00:03:51.285>but <00:03:51.459>that's <00:03:51.634>sort <00:03:51.809>of <00:03:51.984>briefly <00:03:52.159>who <00:03:52.334>I <00:03:52.509>am.

88
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<00:03:52.785>And, <00:03:52.924>um, <00:03:53.065>yeah. <00:03:53.204>And <00:03:53.345>now <00:03:53.484>that, <00:03:53.625>that's <00:03:53.765>what <00:03:53.905>I've <00:03:54.045>been <00:03:54.185>at.

89
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<00:03:55.525>We <00:03:55.680>are <00:03:55.836>developers <00:03:55.991>now <00:03:56.147>for <00:03:56.302>a <00:03:56.458>year <00:03:56.613>and <00:03:56.769>two <00:03:56.925>months.

90
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<00:03:58.625>Um, <00:03:58.780>and <00:03:58.936>it's, <00:03:59.091>it's <00:03:59.247>my <00:03:59.402>first <00:03:59.558>role <00:03:59.713>in <00:03:59.869>developer <00:04:00.025>relations.

91
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<00:04:01.585>Um, <00:04:01.865>and <00:04:02.145>I, <00:04:02.425>I'm, <00:04:02.705>I <00:04:02.985>suppose

92
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<00:04:03.805>what <00:04:03.991>you <00:04:04.177>would <00:04:04.363>call <00:04:04.549>an <00:04:04.734>indie <00:04:04.921>builder.

93
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<00:04:05.185>And <00:04:05.301>I, <00:04:05.418>I, <00:04:05.535>I <00:04:05.651>build <00:04:05.768>my <00:04:05.885>own <00:04:06.001>tools <00:04:06.118>on <00:04:06.235>the <00:04:06.351>side, <00:04:06.468>you <00:04:06.585>know,

94
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<00:04:08.125>I've <00:04:08.280>always <00:04:08.436>kind <00:04:08.591>of <00:04:08.747>made, <00:04:08.902>uh, <00:04:09.058>websites <00:04:09.213>and, <00:04:09.369>and <00:04:09.525>yeah.

95
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<00:04:11.245>So <00:04:11.445>that's, <00:04:11.645>that's <00:04:11.845>kinda <00:04:12.045>who <00:04:12.245>I <00:04:12.445>am. <00:04:12.645>Really.

96
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<00:04:13.945>Very <00:04:14.262>cool. <00:04:14.579>Thanks <00:04:14.896>for <00:04:15.214>that.

97
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<00:04:15.415>And <00:04:15.554>as <00:04:15.695>the <00:04:15.834>format <00:04:15.975>is <00:04:16.115>called <00:04:16.255>Cappuccino <00:04:16.394>with <00:04:16.534>hr, <00:04:16.675>I <00:04:16.815>have

98
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<00:04:18.475>to <00:04:18.602>ask <00:04:18.729>you <00:04:18.856>this <00:04:18.984>question <00:04:19.111>as <00:04:19.238>well, <00:04:19.365>because <00:04:19.493>I <00:04:19.620>always <00:04:19.747>do <00:04:19.875>it.

99
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<00:04:20.704>What <00:04:21.013>is <00:04:21.321>your <00:04:21.629>favorite <00:04:21.938>coffee?

100
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<00:04:22.785>Well, <00:04:22.960>I <00:04:23.135>know <00:04:23.310>I <00:04:23.485>would <00:04:23.660>annoy <00:04:23.835>every <00:04:24.010>single <00:04:24.185>one

101
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<00:04:24.835>of <00:04:25.068>our <00:04:25.301>Italian <00:04:25.534>developers <00:04:25.768>in <00:04:26.001>the <00:04:26.234>community.

102
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<00:04:26.555>If <00:04:26.755>I <00:04:26.955>said <00:04:27.155>cappuccino, <00:04:27.355>'cause <00:04:27.555>it's <00:04:27.755>about <00:04:27.955>four

103
00:04:28.195 --> 00:04:29.275
<00:04:28.195>o'clock <00:04:28.438>in <00:04:28.681>the <00:04:28.924>afternoon <00:04:29.167>here.

104
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<00:04:29.495>Um, <00:04:29.611>but <00:04:29.728>so <00:04:29.845>I've <00:04:29.961>gone <00:04:30.078>for <00:04:30.195>a <00:04:30.311>flat <00:04:30.428>white, <00:04:30.545>um, <00:04:30.661>which, <00:04:30.778>you <00:04:30.895>know,

105
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<00:04:33.875>I, <00:04:34.030>yeah, <00:04:34.186>I <00:04:34.341>mean, <00:04:34.497>I <00:04:34.652>should <00:04:34.808>say <00:04:34.963>sorry, <00:04:35.119>flat <00:04:35.275>white.

106
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<00:04:36.415>Um, <00:04:36.610>and <00:04:36.805>yeah, <00:04:37.000>I <00:04:37.195>keep <00:04:37.390>it <00:04:37.585>simple.

107
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<00:04:37.875>I <00:04:38.065>usually <00:04:38.255>like <00:04:38.445>an <00:04:38.636>espresso <00:04:38.826>though, <00:04:39.016>you <00:04:39.207>know,

108
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<00:04:39.355>first <00:04:39.482>thing <00:04:39.609>in <00:04:39.736>the <00:04:39.864>morning, <00:04:39.991>I'm <00:04:40.118>tired, <00:04:40.245>I've <00:04:40.373>got <00:04:40.500>a <00:04:40.627>young <00:04:40.755>kid,

109
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<00:04:42.915>I <00:04:43.031>have <00:04:43.148>an <00:04:43.265>espresso, <00:04:43.381>wakes <00:04:43.498>me <00:04:43.615>up, <00:04:43.731>gets <00:04:43.848>me <00:04:43.965>going <00:04:44.081>for <00:04:44.198>the <00:04:44.315>day.

110
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<00:04:45.635>I, <00:04:45.742>I <00:04:45.850>need <00:04:45.958>it. <00:04:46.065>So <00:04:46.173>yeah, <00:04:46.281>I'd <00:04:46.388>say <00:04:46.496>an <00:04:46.604>espresso <00:04:46.711>or <00:04:46.819>a <00:04:46.927>flat <00:04:47.034>white.

111
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<00:04:49.865>Okay, <00:04:50.192>thanks <00:04:50.519>for <00:04:50.846>that.

112
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<00:04:51.255>Uh, <00:04:51.430>then <00:04:51.605>as <00:04:51.780>probably <00:04:51.955>not <00:04:52.130>every <00:04:52.305>organization <00:04:52.480>out <00:04:52.655>there

113
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<00:04:55.935>and <00:04:56.090>every <00:04:56.246>organization <00:04:56.401>out <00:04:56.557>in <00:04:56.712>our <00:04:56.868>target <00:04:57.023>audience <00:04:57.179>is, <00:04:57.335>is,

114
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<00:04:59.495>is <00:04:59.670>used <00:04:59.845>to, <00:05:00.020>to <00:05:00.195>the <00:05:00.370>definition <00:05:00.545>of <00:05:00.720>developer <00:05:00.895>relations

115
00:05:03.335 --> 00:05:04.995
<00:05:03.335>or <00:05:03.534>death <00:05:03.734>rail, <00:05:03.935>which <00:05:04.135>is <00:05:04.335>the <00:05:04.534>short <00:05:04.734>form.

116
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<00:05:05.375>How <00:05:05.575>could <00:05:05.775>you, <00:05:05.975>could <00:05:06.175>you <00:05:06.375>quickly <00:05:06.575>explain <00:05:06.775>it?

117
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<00:05:08.535>What's <00:05:08.901>meant <00:05:09.267>with <00:05:09.633>it?

118
00:05:09.785 --> 00:05:11.715
<00:05:09.785>What, <00:05:09.960>what <00:05:10.135>does <00:05:10.310>it <00:05:10.485>mean <00:05:10.660>in <00:05:10.835>the <00:05:11.010>tech <00:05:11.185>world?

119
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<00:05:12.655>Um, <00:05:12.830>it's <00:05:13.005>kind <00:05:13.179>of <00:05:13.354>a <00:05:13.530>million <00:05:13.705>dollar <00:05:13.880>question <00:05:14.054>in

120
00:05:14.755 --> 00:05:16.835
<00:05:14.755>that <00:05:14.882>there's <00:05:15.009>a <00:05:15.136>lot <00:05:15.264>of <00:05:15.391>debate, <00:05:15.518>I <00:05:15.645>think <00:05:15.773>about <00:05:15.900>what <00:05:16.027>it <00:05:16.155>means.

121
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<00:05:16.895>And <00:05:17.050>I'll <00:05:17.206>leave <00:05:17.361>the, <00:05:17.517>the <00:05:17.672>kind <00:05:17.828>of, <00:05:17.983>you <00:05:18.139>know, <00:05:18.294>um,

122
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<00:05:19.075>authoritative <00:05:19.230>de <00:05:19.386>definition <00:05:19.541>to <00:05:19.697>our, <00:05:19.852>our <00:05:20.008>VP <00:05:20.163>of <00:05:20.319>Devra, <00:05:20.474>Chris.

123
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<00:05:22.535>Um, <00:05:22.815>'cause <00:05:23.095>Chris <00:05:23.375>Harman <00:05:23.655>actually <00:05:23.935>wrote

124
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<00:05:24.315>the <00:05:24.509>book <00:05:24.703>on <00:05:24.898>dev <00:05:25.092>rail, <00:05:25.287>right?

125
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<00:05:25.415>So <00:05:25.555>I <00:05:25.695>think <00:05:25.835>that's <00:05:25.975>somebody <00:05:26.115>who <00:05:26.255>could <00:05:26.395>maybe <00:05:26.535>give <00:05:26.675>you <00:05:26.815>that,

126
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<00:05:28.025>that <00:05:28.491>really <00:05:28.958>concrete <00:05:29.424>definition.

127
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<00:05:29.635>But <00:05:29.790>I'll <00:05:29.946>give <00:05:30.101>you <00:05:30.257>my <00:05:30.412>interpretation <00:05:30.568>of <00:05:30.723>what <00:05:30.879>it <00:05:31.034>is.

128
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<00:05:31.395>I <00:05:31.534>think <00:05:31.674>developer <00:05:31.815>relations <00:05:31.955>in <00:05:32.094>like <00:05:32.234>a <00:05:32.375>very <00:05:32.515>simple, <00:05:32.655>uh, <00:05:32.794>kind

129
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<00:05:34.315>of, <00:05:34.431>um, <00:05:34.548>diagram, <00:05:34.665>I <00:05:34.781>suppose <00:05:34.898>is <00:05:35.015>if <00:05:35.131>you <00:05:35.248>had <00:05:35.365>the <00:05:35.481>company <00:05:35.598>on <00:05:35.715>one

130
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<00:05:39.195>side, <00:05:39.474>that <00:05:39.755>company <00:05:40.034>usually <00:05:40.315>making <00:05:40.594>software

131
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<00:05:41.295>or <00:05:41.645>offering <00:05:41.995>something <00:05:42.345>to <00:05:42.695>developers,

132
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<00:05:43.295>and <00:05:43.450>on <00:05:43.606>the <00:05:43.761>other <00:05:43.917>side, <00:05:44.072>the <00:05:44.228>users <00:05:44.383>of <00:05:44.539>that <00:05:44.695>software

133
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<00:05:46.675>or <00:05:46.830>that <00:05:46.986>tool <00:05:47.141>who, <00:05:47.297>in <00:05:47.452>this <00:05:47.608>case <00:05:47.763>probably <00:05:47.919>are <00:05:48.075>developers,

134
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<00:05:50.095>and <00:05:50.295>then <00:05:50.495>you <00:05:50.695>are <00:05:50.895>the <00:05:51.095>person <00:05:51.295>in <00:05:51.495>the

135
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<00:05:51.675>middle <00:05:51.936>in <00:05:52.197>between <00:05:52.457>those <00:05:52.719>two.

136
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<00:05:53.255>Now <00:05:53.430>it, <00:05:53.605>it's <00:05:53.780>not <00:05:53.955>to <00:05:54.130>say <00:05:54.305>it's <00:05:54.480>always <00:05:54.655>individuals

137
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<00:05:55.595>that <00:05:55.795>those <00:05:55.995>companies <00:05:56.195>are <00:05:56.395>targeting <00:05:56.595>with <00:05:56.795>their <00:05:56.995>software.

138
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<00:05:57.805>They're <00:05:58.005>obviously <00:05:58.205>going <00:05:58.405>for <00:05:58.605>enterprise <00:05:58.805>level, <00:05:59.005>you <00:05:59.205>know,

139
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<00:06:01.155>essentially <00:06:01.388>they'll <00:06:01.621>be <00:06:01.854>going <00:06:02.088>for <00:06:02.321>enterprise <00:06:02.554>level

140
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<00:06:03.525>'cause <00:06:03.697>it's, <00:06:03.870>you <00:06:04.043>know, <00:06:04.216>gonna <00:06:04.389>help

141
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<00:06:04.485>the <00:06:04.797>business <00:06:05.109>survive, <00:06:05.421>right?

142
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<00:06:05.945>But <00:06:06.072>at <00:06:06.199>the <00:06:06.326>same <00:06:06.454>time, <00:06:06.581>you <00:06:06.708>are, <00:06:06.835>you <00:06:06.963>are <00:06:07.090>creating <00:06:07.217>content <00:06:07.344>for

143
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<00:06:08.965>that, <00:06:09.325>uh, <00:06:09.685>the <00:06:10.045>people

144
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<00:06:10.165>that <00:06:10.398>work <00:06:10.631>within <00:06:10.865>those <00:06:11.098>other <00:06:11.331>organizations <00:06:11.565>to,

145
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<00:06:12.225>to <00:06:12.400>better <00:06:12.575>understand <00:06:12.750>how <00:06:12.925>your <00:06:13.100>tool <00:06:13.275>or <00:06:13.450>your <00:06:13.625>software

146
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<00:06:15.065>or <00:06:15.344>your <00:06:15.625>application <00:06:15.905>could <00:06:16.185>help <00:06:16.465>them

147
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<00:06:17.185>as <00:06:17.418>a <00:06:17.651>developer <00:06:17.885>in <00:06:18.118>their <00:06:18.351>day-to-day <00:06:18.585>life.

148
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<00:06:19.425>Um, <00:06:19.552>and <00:06:19.679>yeah, <00:06:19.806>so <00:06:19.934>I <00:06:20.061>think <00:06:20.188>it's, <00:06:20.315>it's <00:06:20.443>primarily <00:06:20.570>is <00:06:20.697>that <00:06:20.825>person

149
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<00:06:22.965>that <00:06:23.164>that <00:06:23.364>translates, <00:06:23.565>you <00:06:23.765>know, <00:06:23.965>you <00:06:24.164>said <00:06:24.364>that,

150
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<00:06:24.845>that <00:06:25.045>word <00:06:25.245>earlier <00:06:25.445>on <00:06:25.645>translates, <00:06:25.845>it <00:06:26.045>translates <00:06:26.245>the,

151
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<00:06:27.905>the, <00:06:28.436>the <00:06:28.967>technicals.

152
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<00:06:29.285>'cause <00:06:29.440>you <00:06:29.596>need <00:06:29.751>to <00:06:29.907>be <00:06:30.062>able <00:06:30.218>to <00:06:30.373>communicate <00:06:30.529>to <00:06:30.685>the,

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<00:06:31.785>the <00:06:31.960>developers <00:06:32.135>that <00:06:32.310>are <00:06:32.485>using <00:06:32.660>your <00:06:32.835>software, <00:06:33.010>the <00:06:33.185>technicals

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<00:06:34.965>of <00:06:35.120>it, <00:06:35.276>because <00:06:35.431>they <00:06:35.587>are <00:06:35.742>gonna <00:06:35.898>ask <00:06:36.053>you <00:06:36.209>about <00:06:36.365>it.

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<00:06:36.805>They're <00:06:37.038>gonna <00:06:37.271>want <00:06:37.505>to <00:06:37.738>know <00:06:37.971>the <00:06:38.205>specifics.

156
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<00:06:38.545>Um, <00:06:38.685>and <00:06:38.825>if <00:06:38.965>you <00:06:39.105>just <00:06:39.245>have <00:06:39.385>somebody <00:06:39.525>in <00:06:39.665>sales, <00:06:39.805>no, <00:06:39.945>no,

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<00:06:41.945>not <00:06:42.264>disparaging <00:06:42.584>somebody <00:06:42.903>in <00:06:43.223>sales,

158
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<00:06:43.465>but <00:06:43.727>they're <00:06:43.990>often <00:06:44.253>not <00:06:44.516>gonna <00:06:44.779>be

159
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<00:06:44.925>able <00:06:45.159>to <00:06:45.393>answer <00:06:45.627>those <00:06:45.861>questions.

160
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<00:06:46.065>So <00:06:46.298>the <00:06:46.531>devra <00:06:46.765>can, <00:06:46.998>can <00:06:47.231>step <00:06:47.465>in

161
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<00:06:48.165>and <00:06:48.365>speak <00:06:48.565>on <00:06:48.765>behalf <00:06:48.965>of <00:06:49.165>the <00:06:49.365>technical <00:06:49.565>side,

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<00:06:50.905>but <00:06:51.167>also <00:06:51.430>just <00:06:51.693>in <00:06:51.956>simple <00:06:52.219>terms,

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<00:06:52.625>how <00:06:52.780>is <00:06:52.936>this <00:06:53.091>gonna <00:06:53.247>solve <00:06:53.402>a <00:06:53.558>problem <00:06:53.713>for <00:06:53.869>that <00:06:54.025>developer,

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<00:06:55.625>you <00:06:55.800>know, <00:06:55.975>using <00:06:56.150>this <00:06:56.325>software <00:06:56.500>or <00:06:56.675>using <00:06:56.850>this <00:06:57.025>tool.

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<00:06:58.065>So <00:06:58.265>I <00:06:58.465>think <00:06:58.665>you're <00:06:58.865>very <00:06:59.065>much <00:06:59.265>the <00:06:59.465>middleman.

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<00:06:59.665>You <00:06:59.840>are <00:07:00.015>the, <00:07:00.190>you <00:07:00.365>are <00:07:00.540>the <00:07:00.715>person <00:07:00.890>who's <00:07:01.065>feeding

167
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<00:07:02.205>information <00:07:02.727>both <00:07:03.249>ways.

168
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<00:07:04.005>I <00:07:04.160>think <00:07:04.316>you <00:07:04.471>are <00:07:04.627>feeding <00:07:04.782>information <00:07:04.938>to <00:07:05.093>the <00:07:05.249>developers <00:07:05.405>about,

169
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<00:07:06.745>you <00:07:06.885>know, <00:07:07.025>look <00:07:07.165>what <00:07:07.305>we, <00:07:07.445>look <00:07:07.585>what <00:07:07.725>our <00:07:07.865>tool <00:07:08.005>can <00:07:08.145>do,

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<00:07:08.365>look <00:07:08.505>at <00:07:08.645>this <00:07:08.785>exciting <00:07:08.925>new <00:07:09.065>feature, <00:07:09.205>look <00:07:09.345>what <00:07:09.485>we've <00:07:09.625>got <00:07:09.765>that,

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<00:07:10.445>that's <00:07:10.760>really <00:07:11.075>useful <00:07:11.390>for <00:07:11.705>you.

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<00:07:12.385>And <00:07:12.512>then <00:07:12.639>on <00:07:12.766>the <00:07:12.894>other <00:07:13.021>side, <00:07:13.148>you <00:07:13.275>are <00:07:13.403>able <00:07:13.530>to <00:07:13.657>feed <00:07:13.784>thing,

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<00:07:15.155>feed <00:07:15.310>things <00:07:15.466>back, <00:07:15.621>excuse <00:07:15.777>me, <00:07:15.932>that's <00:07:16.088>quite <00:07:16.243>hard <00:07:16.399>to <00:07:16.554>say.

174
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<00:07:17.325>Feed <00:07:17.452>things <00:07:17.579>back <00:07:17.706>to <00:07:17.834>the, <00:07:17.961>to <00:07:18.088>the <00:07:18.215>company <00:07:18.343>in <00:07:18.470>saying, <00:07:18.597>this <00:07:18.724>is

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<00:07:21.325>how <00:07:21.558>developer <00:07:21.791>developers <00:07:22.025>feel <00:07:22.258>about <00:07:22.491>your <00:07:22.724>software.

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<00:07:23.995>This <00:07:24.184>is <00:07:24.373>the <00:07:24.562>feature <00:07:24.751>that <00:07:24.940>they

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<00:07:25.045>like, <00:07:25.201>this <00:07:25.357>is <00:07:25.513>what <00:07:25.669>they <00:07:25.825>don't <00:07:25.981>like.

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<00:07:26.225>And <00:07:26.400>there's <00:07:26.575>a <00:07:26.750>lot <00:07:26.925>more <00:07:27.100>to <00:07:27.275>it <00:07:27.450>than <00:07:27.625>that.

179
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<00:07:27.945>But, <00:07:28.120>um, <00:07:28.295>finally, <00:07:28.469>I <00:07:28.645>know <00:07:28.820>it's <00:07:28.995>a <00:07:29.170>long <00:07:29.344>definition,

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<00:07:31.005>and <00:07:31.149>this <00:07:31.293>is, <00:07:31.437>this <00:07:31.580>is <00:07:31.724>what <00:07:31.869>I <00:07:32.013>mean, <00:07:32.157>right?

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<00:07:32.305>Is <00:07:32.460>there's, <00:07:32.616>there's <00:07:32.771>really <00:07:32.927>no <00:07:33.082>consensus <00:07:33.238>about <00:07:33.393>what <00:07:33.549>it <00:07:33.705>is.

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<00:07:35.645>I <00:07:35.784>think <00:07:35.924>in <00:07:36.065>some <00:07:36.205>level <00:07:36.344>you <00:07:36.484>are <00:07:36.625>a, <00:07:36.765>a <00:07:36.905>representative, <00:07:37.044>um,

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<00:07:39.985>you <00:07:40.140>are <00:07:40.296>a, <00:07:40.451>a <00:07:40.607>rep <00:07:40.762>in <00:07:40.918>that, <00:07:41.073>in <00:07:41.229>that <00:07:41.385>sense

184
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<00:07:42.284>that <00:07:42.484>you <00:07:42.684>are <00:07:42.885>somebody <00:07:43.085>who <00:07:43.284>is <00:07:43.484>representing <00:07:43.684>a

185
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<00:07:44.365>brand <00:07:44.689>or <00:07:45.013>an <00:07:45.337>organization.

186
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<00:07:45.705>And, <00:07:45.860>um, <00:07:46.016>you <00:07:46.171>are <00:07:46.327>helping <00:07:46.482>to <00:07:46.638>communicate <00:07:46.793>the <00:07:46.949>values <00:07:47.104>of

187
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<00:07:48.685>that <00:07:48.860>organization <00:07:49.035>outwardly <00:07:49.210>to <00:07:49.385>some <00:07:49.560>of <00:07:49.735>the <00:07:49.910>people <00:07:50.085>who

188
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<00:07:51.595>that <00:07:51.875>will <00:07:52.155>be <00:07:52.435>your <00:07:52.715>customers <00:07:52.995>ultimately.

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<00:07:53.605>And <00:07:53.797>so <00:07:53.989>you're <00:07:54.181>putting <00:07:54.373>a <00:07:54.565>face <00:07:54.757>to

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<00:07:54.885>what <00:07:55.108>could <00:07:55.331>be <00:07:55.554>a <00:07:55.777>faceless <00:07:56.001>brand.

191
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<00:07:56.665>Mm-hmm. <00:07:56.865>What <00:07:57.065>drew <00:07:57.265>you <00:07:57.465>personally <00:07:57.665>into <00:07:57.865>this <00:07:58.065>role?

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<00:07:59.635>What <00:07:59.775>was <00:07:59.914>the <00:08:00.055>attracting <00:08:00.195>part <00:08:00.335>for <00:08:00.474>you <00:08:00.615>when <00:08:00.755>you <00:08:00.895>were <00:08:01.034>first,

193
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<00:08:03.465>uh, <00:08:03.592>uh, <00:08:03.719>kind <00:08:03.846>in <00:08:03.974>touch <00:08:04.101>with <00:08:04.228>us, <00:08:04.355>uh, <00:08:04.483>looking <00:08:04.610>for <00:08:04.737>a <00:08:04.864>kind

194
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<00:08:06.405>of <00:08:06.684>this <00:08:06.965>kind <00:08:07.244>of <00:08:07.525>developer <00:08:07.804>advocate?

195
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<00:08:08.315>What, <00:08:08.455>what <00:08:08.594>was <00:08:08.735>it <00:08:08.875>for <00:08:09.015>you <00:08:09.155>that, <00:08:09.295>uh, <00:08:09.435>created <00:08:09.575>this <00:08:09.715>kind

196
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<00:08:12.245>of <00:08:12.478>curiosity <00:08:12.711>around <00:08:12.945>it <00:08:13.178>and <00:08:13.411>your <00:08:13.645>interest?

197
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<00:08:15.285>Um, <00:08:15.440>I <00:08:15.596>think <00:08:15.751>I, <00:08:15.907>I <00:08:16.062>saw <00:08:16.218>them <00:08:16.373>in <00:08:16.529>the <00:08:16.685>community.

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<00:08:17.505>I, <00:08:17.738>I <00:08:17.971>saw, <00:08:18.205>um, <00:08:18.438>developer <00:08:18.671>relations, <00:08:18.905>um,

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<00:08:19.725>or <00:08:19.958>developer <00:08:20.191>advocates, <00:08:20.425>um, <00:08:20.658>on <00:08:20.891>social <00:08:21.125>media.

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<00:08:22.605>And <00:08:22.782>I <00:08:22.959>would <00:08:23.136>see <00:08:23.313>them, <00:08:23.490>you <00:08:23.667>know,

201
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<00:08:24.305>exciting <00:08:24.602>me <00:08:24.899>about <00:08:25.196>different <00:08:25.493>tools.

202
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<00:08:25.805>And <00:08:26.155>it, <00:08:26.505>it <00:08:26.855>wasn't <00:08:27.205>immediately

203
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<00:08:27.745>obvious <00:08:27.946>to <00:08:28.148>me <00:08:28.349>that <00:08:28.551>they <00:08:28.753>existed.

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<00:08:29.005>You <00:08:29.188>know, <00:08:29.371>they <00:08:29.554>seemed <00:08:29.737>just <00:08:29.920>like <00:08:30.103>people

205
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<00:08:30.225>that <00:08:30.425>were <00:08:30.625>excited <00:08:30.825>about <00:08:31.025>certain <00:08:31.225>tools <00:08:31.425>or <00:08:31.625>software.

206
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<00:08:32.804>And <00:08:32.944>it <00:08:33.084>was <00:08:33.224>only <00:08:33.364>over <00:08:33.505>time <00:08:33.645>that <00:08:33.784>I <00:08:33.924>saw, <00:08:34.064>oh, <00:08:34.204>right,

207
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<00:08:34.905>these <00:08:35.079>are <00:08:35.255>actually <00:08:35.429>developers <00:08:35.605>who <00:08:35.780>work <00:08:35.954>for <00:08:36.130>the <00:08:36.304>company

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<00:08:37.245>and <00:08:37.443>they <00:08:37.640>help <00:08:37.839>to <00:08:38.037>do <00:08:38.235>this.

209
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<00:08:38.445>Now, <00:08:38.686>it <00:08:38.927>didn't <00:08:39.168>undermine <00:08:39.409>it <00:08:39.650>though.

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<00:08:39.784>It <00:08:39.959>didn't <00:08:40.135>make <00:08:40.309>me <00:08:40.485>think, <00:08:40.659>well, <00:08:40.834>they're <00:08:41.010>paid <00:08:41.184>ambassadors.

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<00:08:42.225>You <00:08:42.380>know, <00:08:42.536>that's, <00:08:42.691>that's, <00:08:42.847>that's <00:08:43.002>okay. <00:08:43.158>That's <00:08:43.313>a <00:08:43.469>good <00:08:43.625>thing.

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<00:08:44.265>It <00:08:44.405>wasn't <00:08:44.545>like <00:08:44.685>they <00:08:44.824>were <00:08:44.965>just <00:08:45.105>being <00:08:45.245>paid <00:08:45.385>to <00:08:45.525>make <00:08:45.665>content.

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<00:08:46.685>It <00:08:46.824>was <00:08:46.964>that <00:08:47.104>they <00:08:47.244>were <00:08:47.385>people <00:08:47.525>who <00:08:47.665>were <00:08:47.805>excited <00:08:47.944>about <00:08:48.084>some

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<00:08:48.905>software <00:08:49.138>or <00:08:49.371>excited <00:08:49.605>about <00:08:49.838>something <00:08:50.071>developer <00:08:50.305>related,

215
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<00:08:52.725>and <00:08:52.927>then <00:08:53.130>they <00:08:53.332>wanted <00:08:53.535>to

216
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<00:08:53.785>communicate <00:08:54.015>that <00:08:54.245>to, <00:08:54.476>to <00:08:54.706>other <00:08:54.937>people.

217
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<00:08:55.745>And <00:08:55.872>I, <00:08:55.999>I <00:08:56.126>liked <00:08:56.254>the <00:08:56.381>fact <00:08:56.508>that <00:08:56.635>it, <00:08:56.763>it <00:08:56.890>really <00:08:57.017>allowed <00:08:57.145>me

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<00:08:59.285>to <00:08:59.518>put <00:08:59.751>together <00:08:59.985>lots <00:09:00.218>of <00:09:00.451>different <00:09:00.685>skills.

219
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<00:09:01.895>I'm, <00:09:02.022>I'm, <00:09:02.149>I <00:09:02.276>would, <00:09:02.404>I <00:09:02.531>would <00:09:02.658>call <00:09:02.785>myself <00:09:02.913>a <00:09:03.040>proud <00:09:03.167>generalist <00:09:03.295>in

220
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<00:09:05.035>that <00:09:05.209>I, <00:09:05.385>I <00:09:05.560>like <00:09:05.735>doing <00:09:05.910>lots <00:09:06.084>of <00:09:06.260>different <00:09:06.435>things

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<00:09:07.135>and <00:09:07.335>it's <00:09:07.535>taken <00:09:07.735>me <00:09:07.935>years <00:09:08.135>to <00:09:08.335>really <00:09:08.535>realize

222
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<00:09:08.955>that <00:09:09.305>I, <00:09:09.655>that <00:09:10.005>that's <00:09:10.355>okay.

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<00:09:10.695>And <00:09:10.850>I <00:09:11.006>like <00:09:11.161>doing <00:09:11.317>lots <00:09:11.472>of <00:09:11.628>different <00:09:11.783>things <00:09:11.939>in <00:09:12.095>a,

224
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<00:09:13.235>in <00:09:13.410>a <00:09:13.585>given <00:09:13.760>day <00:09:13.935>or <00:09:14.110>in <00:09:14.285>a <00:09:14.460>given <00:09:14.635>week.

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<00:09:15.335>So <00:09:15.560>Devra <00:09:15.785>allows <00:09:16.010>you <00:09:16.235>to <00:09:16.460>do <00:09:16.685>that.

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<00:09:16.835>You're <00:09:17.035>not, <00:09:17.235>you're <00:09:17.435>not <00:09:17.635>just <00:09:17.835>coding <00:09:18.035>all <00:09:18.235>day.

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<00:09:19.475>You're <00:09:19.650>not <00:09:19.825>just, <00:09:20.000>um, <00:09:20.175>making <00:09:20.350>video <00:09:20.525>content <00:09:20.700>all <00:09:20.875>day.

228
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<00:09:22.275>You're <00:09:22.598>not <00:09:22.923>just <00:09:23.247>writing <00:09:23.571>blogs.

229
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<00:09:23.715>You're <00:09:23.985>not <00:09:24.255>just <00:09:24.525>doing <00:09:24.795>outreach.

230
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<00:09:25.055>You're <00:09:25.229>doing <00:09:25.405>a <00:09:25.579>bit <00:09:25.755>of <00:09:25.930>it <00:09:26.104>every <00:09:26.280>single <00:09:26.454>day.

231
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<00:09:27.035>And <00:09:27.251>I <00:09:27.467>really <00:09:27.683>like <00:09:27.899>that <00:09:28.115>mix.

232
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<00:09:28.415>Um, <00:09:28.555>and <00:09:28.694>as <00:09:28.834>you <00:09:28.974>can <00:09:29.115>tell, <00:09:29.255>I <00:09:29.395>like <00:09:29.535>to <00:09:29.675>talk. <00:09:29.814>Mm-hmm.

233
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<00:09:31.515>And <00:09:31.689>so <00:09:31.865>that's, <00:09:32.040>that's <00:09:32.215>definitely <00:09:32.390>a <00:09:32.564>skill <00:09:32.740>as <00:09:32.915>a,

234
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<00:09:33.475>as <00:09:33.630>working <00:09:33.786>in <00:09:33.941>dev <00:09:34.097>rail, <00:09:34.252>being <00:09:34.408>able <00:09:34.563>to <00:09:34.719>talk, <00:09:34.875>liking

235
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<00:09:36.095>to <00:09:36.270>liking, <00:09:36.445>talking <00:09:36.620>about <00:09:36.795>things <00:09:36.970>that <00:09:37.145>you're <00:09:37.320>excited <00:09:37.495>about.

236
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<00:09:38.935>So <00:09:39.122>mm-hmm. <00:09:39.310>For <00:09:39.498>me, <00:09:39.685>it <00:09:39.873>was <00:09:40.061>the <00:09:40.249>perfect

237
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<00:09:40.405>blend <00:09:40.597>of <00:09:40.790>all <00:09:40.982>of <00:09:41.175>those <00:09:41.368>things.

238
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<00:09:41.955>Mm-hmm. <00:09:42.110>If <00:09:42.266>a, <00:09:42.421>if <00:09:42.577>a <00:09:42.732>company <00:09:42.888>is <00:09:43.043>having <00:09:43.199>a <00:09:43.355>kind

239
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<00:09:44.655>of <00:09:44.898>a <00:09:45.141>dev <00:09:45.384>rail <00:09:45.627>organization

240
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<00:09:45.795>or <00:09:45.969>part, <00:09:46.145>uh, <00:09:46.319>part <00:09:46.495>organization <00:09:46.670>in, <00:09:46.844>in <00:09:47.020>their <00:09:47.194>team,

241
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<00:09:50.275>how <00:09:50.625>could <00:09:50.975>they <00:09:51.324>use <00:09:51.675>that?

242
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<00:09:53.075>Uh, <00:09:53.425>for, <00:09:53.775>for <00:09:54.125>breaching <00:09:54.475>also?

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<00:09:54.815>I <00:09:54.955>mean, <00:09:55.095>what <00:09:55.235>you <00:09:55.375>described <00:09:55.515>was <00:09:55.655>mainly <00:09:55.795>a <00:09:55.935>kind <00:09:56.075>of, <00:09:56.215>uh,

244
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<00:09:59.005>getting <00:09:59.180>a <00:09:59.355>kind <00:09:59.530>of <00:09:59.705>audience <00:09:59.880>for <00:10:00.055>products <00:10:00.230>or <00:10:00.405>features

245
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<00:10:02.235>or <00:10:02.362>a <00:10:02.489>kind <00:10:02.616>of <00:10:02.744>cool <00:10:02.871>stuff, <00:10:02.998>which, <00:10:03.125>which, <00:10:03.253>which <00:10:03.380>is, <00:10:03.507>uh, <00:10:03.635>built

246
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<00:10:06.635>by <00:10:06.835>these <00:10:07.035>guys <00:10:07.235>in, <00:10:07.435>in <00:10:07.635>the <00:10:07.835>developer <00:10:08.035>teams.

247
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<00:10:09.955>But <00:10:10.130>how <00:10:10.305>could <00:10:10.480>it <00:10:10.655>be <00:10:10.830>leveraged <00:10:11.005>also <00:10:11.180>for <00:10:11.355>hr?

248
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<00:10:13.285>Because, <00:10:13.518>I <00:10:13.751>mean, <00:10:13.985>there's <00:10:14.218>misconception, <00:10:14.451>a <00:10:14.685>lot

249
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<00:10:16.055>of <00:10:16.334>misconceptions <00:10:16.614>out <00:10:16.895>still <00:10:17.175>out <00:10:17.454>there.

250
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<00:10:18.535>I <00:10:18.662>mean, <00:10:18.789>when <00:10:18.916>I <00:10:19.044>started <00:10:19.171>a <00:10:19.298>couple <00:10:19.425>of <00:10:19.553>years <00:10:19.680>ago, <00:10:19.807>I <00:10:19.935>mean,

251
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<00:10:20.815>there <00:10:21.095>was <00:10:21.375>this <00:10:21.655>kind <00:10:21.935>of <00:10:22.215>stereotype,

252
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<00:10:22.415>which <00:10:22.730>was <00:10:23.045>definitely <00:10:23.360>out <00:10:23.675>there,

253
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<00:10:24.655>software <00:10:24.997>developers <00:10:25.339>addressed <00:10:25.680>in <00:10:26.022>black,

254
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<00:10:26.175>just <00:10:26.349>sitting <00:10:26.525>in <00:10:26.699>the <00:10:26.875>basement <00:10:27.050>and <00:10:27.224>they're <00:10:27.400>eating <00:10:27.574>pizza.

255
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<00:10:28.655>I <00:10:28.810>mean, <00:10:28.966>that <00:10:29.121>was <00:10:29.277>more <00:10:29.432>or <00:10:29.588>less <00:10:29.743>the <00:10:29.899>summary <00:10:30.055>of,

256
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<00:10:30.875>of <00:10:31.334>the <00:10:31.793>stereotype.

257
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<00:10:32.795>Um, <00:10:32.950>every <00:10:33.106>study <00:10:33.261>that <00:10:33.417>we <00:10:33.572>did <00:10:33.728>along <00:10:33.883>the <00:10:34.039>way <00:10:34.194>prove

258
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<00:10:36.845>that <00:10:37.311>it's <00:10:37.778>100% <00:10:38.245>wrong.

259
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<00:10:38.585>So <00:10:38.935>it's <00:10:39.285>totally <00:10:39.635>the <00:10:39.985>opposite.

260
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<00:10:40.345>Uh, <00:10:40.663>and <00:10:40.981>I <00:10:41.299>mean,

261
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<00:10:41.505>but <00:10:41.660>if <00:10:41.816>a <00:10:41.971>stereotype <00:10:42.127>is <00:10:42.282>placed <00:10:42.438>in <00:10:42.593>the <00:10:42.749>market, <00:10:42.905>it,

262
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<00:10:44.585>it <00:10:44.785>stays <00:10:44.985>there <00:10:45.185>for <00:10:45.385>quite <00:10:45.585>some <00:10:45.785>long <00:10:45.985>time.

263
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<00:10:46.915>Yeah. <00:10:47.115>If <00:10:47.314>you <00:10:47.515>have <00:10:47.714>a <00:10:47.915>deaf <00:10:48.115>rail <00:10:48.314>organization

264
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<00:10:48.705>or <00:10:48.845>if <00:10:48.985>you <00:10:49.125>have <00:10:49.265>deaf <00:10:49.405>rail <00:10:49.545>people <00:10:49.685>in <00:10:49.825>your <00:10:49.965>team, <00:10:50.105>uh,

265
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<00:10:51.185>how <00:10:51.418>could <00:10:51.651>they <00:10:51.885>help <00:10:52.118>and <00:10:52.351>support <00:10:52.584>HR

266
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<00:10:54.025>for <00:10:54.225>attracting <00:10:54.425>talent <00:10:54.625>out <00:10:54.824>there <00:10:55.025>with <00:10:55.225>getting <00:10:55.425>rid

267
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<00:10:56.965>of <00:10:57.421>misconceptions, <00:10:57.877>getting <00:10:58.333>rid

268
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<00:10:58.485>of <00:10:58.905>all <00:10:59.325>these <00:10:59.745>misunderstandings?

269
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<00:11:00.605>I <00:11:00.760>think <00:11:00.916>that <00:11:01.071>the <00:11:01.227>idea <00:11:01.382>that <00:11:01.538>developers <00:11:01.693>don't <00:11:01.849>want <00:11:02.005>to,

270
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<00:11:03.025>to <00:11:03.258>speak <00:11:03.491>to <00:11:03.725>people <00:11:03.958>in <00:11:04.191>the <00:11:04.425>community,

271
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<00:11:05.225>and <00:11:05.400>they <00:11:05.575>don't <00:11:05.750>want <00:11:05.925>to <00:11:06.100>engage <00:11:06.275>with <00:11:06.450>other <00:11:06.625>people,

272
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<00:11:07.155>it's <00:11:07.388>a <00:11:07.621>stereotype, <00:11:07.855>as <00:11:08.088>you <00:11:08.321>said, <00:11:08.555>it's,

273
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<00:11:08.915>it's <00:11:09.147>in <00:11:09.379>general, <00:11:09.611>it's <00:11:09.843>not <00:11:10.076>true.

274
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<00:11:10.705>And <00:11:10.860>I <00:11:11.016>think <00:11:11.171>that <00:11:11.327>you, <00:11:11.482>you <00:11:11.638>will <00:11:11.793>realize <00:11:11.949>that, <00:11:12.105>uh,

275
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<00:11:13.395>with <00:11:13.628>developers, <00:11:13.861>when <00:11:14.095>they're <00:11:14.328>passionate <00:11:14.561>about <00:11:14.795>something,

276
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<00:11:15.525>they're <00:11:15.699>extremely <00:11:15.875>passionate <00:11:16.050>about <00:11:16.225>it, <00:11:16.400>to <00:11:16.574>the <00:11:16.750>point <00:11:16.925>where,

277
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<00:11:18.305>you <00:11:18.472>know, <00:11:18.639>they <00:11:18.806>will <00:11:18.973>do <00:11:19.140>their <00:11:19.307>day <00:11:19.475>job.

278
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<00:11:19.625>And <00:11:19.971>often <00:11:20.318>on <00:11:20.664>the <00:11:21.011>side,

279
00:11:21.165 --> 00:11:23.485
<00:11:21.165>their <00:11:21.365>hobby <00:11:21.564>in <00:11:21.765>some <00:11:21.964>form <00:11:22.165>is <00:11:22.365>programming <00:11:22.564>related.

280
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<00:11:23.605>Right <00:11:23.760>now, <00:11:23.916>that's <00:11:24.071>like <00:11:24.227>a <00:11:24.382>gift <00:11:24.538>for <00:11:24.693>so <00:11:24.849>many, <00:11:25.005>um,

281
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<00:11:26.705>HR <00:11:26.905>departments <00:11:27.105>who <00:11:27.305>would <00:11:27.505>love <00:11:27.705>these <00:11:27.905>motivated <00:11:28.105>people

282
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<00:11:29.385>to <00:11:29.574>be <00:11:29.763>in <00:11:29.952>their, <00:11:30.141>in <00:11:30.329>their <00:11:30.519>teams.

283
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<00:11:31.185>Now <00:11:31.397>with <00:11:31.609>Derail, <00:11:31.822>you <00:11:32.034>are <00:11:32.247>able

284
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<00:11:32.365>to <00:11:32.565>actually <00:11:32.765>find <00:11:32.965>those <00:11:33.165>people <00:11:33.365>in <00:11:33.565>the <00:11:33.765>community.

285
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<00:11:34.625>Um, <00:11:34.752>there's <00:11:34.879>a, <00:11:35.006>a, <00:11:35.134>a <00:11:35.261>few <00:11:35.388>very <00:11:35.515>large, <00:11:35.643>you <00:11:35.770>know, <00:11:35.897>tech <00:11:36.025>brands

286
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<00:11:38.125>that <00:11:38.280>I <00:11:38.436>can <00:11:38.591>think <00:11:38.747>of, <00:11:38.902>um, <00:11:39.058>that <00:11:39.213>I've <00:11:39.369>seen <00:11:39.525>personally

287
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<00:11:40.245>with <00:11:40.525>people <00:11:40.805>that <00:11:41.085>just, <00:11:41.365>you <00:11:41.645>know,

288
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<00:11:42.325>you <00:11:42.489>would <00:11:42.654>speak <00:11:42.818>to <00:11:42.983>'em <00:11:43.147>on <00:11:43.312>social <00:11:43.477>media.

289
00:11:43.795 --> 00:11:45.805
<00:11:43.795>They <00:11:44.028>create <00:11:44.261>content <00:11:44.495>related <00:11:44.728>to <00:11:44.961>a <00:11:45.194>product.

290
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<00:11:46.105>And <00:11:46.245>then <00:11:46.385>within <00:11:46.525>a <00:11:46.665>few <00:11:46.805>years, <00:11:46.945>the, <00:11:47.085>the <00:11:47.225>people <00:11:47.365>within <00:11:47.505>the,

291
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<00:11:48.965>that <00:11:49.140>company <00:11:49.315>who <00:11:49.490>make <00:11:49.665>that <00:11:49.840>product <00:11:50.015>start <00:11:50.190>saying, <00:11:50.365>well,

292
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<00:11:52.065>you <00:11:52.298>know, <00:11:52.531>you <00:11:52.765>obviously <00:11:52.998>are, <00:11:53.231>are <00:11:53.465>somebody

293
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<00:11:54.065>who <00:11:54.330>really <00:11:54.596>likes <00:11:54.861>our <00:11:55.127>work.

294
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<00:11:55.315>They <00:11:55.515>engage <00:11:55.715>with <00:11:55.915>the, <00:11:56.115>the, <00:11:56.315>the <00:11:56.515>developer <00:11:56.715>relations,

295
00:11:58.185 --> 00:11:59.525
<00:11:58.185>um, <00:11:59.391>representatives.

296
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<00:11:59.525>So <00:11:59.861>the <00:12:00.197>developer <00:12:00.533>advocates.

297
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<00:12:00.865>And <00:12:01.040>then <00:12:01.215>that <00:12:01.390>community <00:12:01.565>is <00:12:01.740>built <00:12:01.915>between <00:12:02.090>the <00:12:02.265>company

298
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<00:12:04.105>and <00:12:04.519>the, <00:12:04.933>uh, <00:12:05.347>developers

299
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<00:12:05.505>who <00:12:05.680>the <00:12:05.855>developer <00:12:06.030>advocate <00:12:06.205>has <00:12:06.380>seen <00:12:06.555>this <00:12:06.730>person <00:12:06.905>is,

300
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<00:12:08.605>is <00:12:08.830>qualified <00:12:09.055>for <00:12:09.280>the <00:12:09.505>job.

301
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<00:12:09.825>I'm <00:12:09.980>not <00:12:10.136>saying <00:12:10.291>they'll <00:12:10.447>do <00:12:10.602>the <00:12:10.758>role <00:12:10.913>of <00:12:11.069>the <00:12:11.225>hr,

302
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<00:12:12.185>but <00:12:12.340>what <00:12:12.496>they're <00:12:12.651>able <00:12:12.807>to <00:12:12.962>do <00:12:13.118>is <00:12:13.273>at <00:12:13.429>least, <00:12:13.584>uh,

303
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<00:12:14.115>prepare <00:12:14.395>somebody <00:12:14.675>for <00:12:14.955>the <00:12:15.235>HR <00:12:15.515>department

304
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<00:12:16.185>if <00:12:16.539>interviewing <00:12:16.893>comes <00:12:17.247>along.

305
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<00:12:17.365>If <00:12:17.520>an <00:12:17.676>application <00:12:17.831>comes <00:12:17.987>in <00:12:18.142>from <00:12:18.298>that <00:12:18.453>person <00:12:18.609>in <00:12:18.765>terms

306
00:12:19.805 --> 00:12:22.325
<00:12:19.805>of <00:12:19.932>saying, <00:12:20.059>this <00:12:20.186>is <00:12:20.314>the <00:12:20.441>background, <00:12:20.568>this <00:12:20.695>is <00:12:20.823>the <00:12:20.950>kinds <00:12:21.077>of <00:12:21.204>work

307
00:12:22.325 --> 00:12:23.525
<00:12:22.325>that <00:12:22.541>they're <00:12:22.757>doing <00:12:22.973>with <00:12:23.189>our <00:12:23.405>tool

308
00:12:23.585 --> 00:12:24.805
<00:12:23.585>or <00:12:23.859>with <00:12:24.134>our <00:12:24.408>software <00:12:24.683>already.

309
00:12:25.225 --> 00:12:26.605
<00:12:25.225>And <00:12:25.432>then <00:12:25.639>you <00:12:25.846>are <00:12:26.053>helping <00:12:26.260>to <00:12:26.467>select

310
00:12:26.605 --> 00:12:28.765
<00:12:26.605>and <00:12:26.780>find <00:12:26.955>these <00:12:27.130>developers <00:12:27.305>that <00:12:27.480>are <00:12:27.655>in <00:12:27.830>the <00:12:28.005>community

311
00:12:28.765 --> 00:12:30.045
<00:12:28.765>that <00:12:29.053>are <00:12:29.341>speaking <00:12:29.629>to <00:12:29.916>people.

312
00:12:30.395 --> 00:12:32.485
<00:12:30.395>They're <00:12:30.628>not <00:12:30.861>hiding <00:12:31.095>under <00:12:31.328>a <00:12:31.561>bridge <00:12:31.795>like

313
00:12:32.485 --> 00:12:33.605
<00:12:32.485>the <00:12:32.821>stereotype <00:12:33.157>would <00:12:33.493>suggest.

314
00:12:33.875 --> 00:12:34.925
<00:12:33.875>They're <00:12:34.189>out <00:12:34.505>there <00:12:34.819>telling,

315
00:12:34.925 --> 00:12:36.725
<00:12:34.925>telling <00:12:35.204>people, <00:12:35.484>I <00:12:35.765>love <00:12:36.045>this <00:12:36.324>product.

316
00:12:36.905 --> 00:12:38.365
<00:12:36.905>So <00:12:37.233>it's <00:12:37.562>about <00:12:37.890>recognizing <00:12:38.219>that

317
00:12:38.385 --> 00:12:40.285
<00:12:38.385>and <00:12:38.585>the <00:12:38.785>developer <00:12:38.985>advocate <00:12:39.185>it <00:12:39.385>can <00:12:39.585>do <00:12:39.785>that.

318
00:12:40.915 --> 00:12:44.215
<00:12:40.915>Mm-hmm. <00:12:41.070>And <00:12:41.226>I, <00:12:41.381>as, <00:12:41.537>as, <00:12:41.692>as, <00:12:41.848>I <00:12:42.003>mean, <00:12:42.159>that's <00:12:42.314>fact.

319
00:12:44.235 --> 00:12:48.015
<00:12:44.235>And <00:12:44.435>we, <00:12:44.635>we, <00:12:44.835>it's <00:12:45.035>proven <00:12:45.235>daily <00:12:45.435>that <00:12:45.635>90%

320
00:12:48.015 --> 00:12:50.415
<00:12:48.015>of <00:12:48.189>the <00:12:48.365>software <00:12:48.540>developers <00:12:48.715>out <00:12:48.890>there <00:12:49.064>have <00:12:49.240>that <00:12:49.415>job.

321
00:12:50.575 --> 00:12:51.295
<00:12:50.575>I <00:12:50.737>mean, <00:12:50.899>they're <00:12:51.061>not <00:12:51.223>looking

322
00:12:51.295 --> 00:12:52.495
<00:12:51.295>currently, <00:12:51.511>they're <00:12:51.727>not <00:12:51.943>looking <00:12:52.159>for <00:12:52.375>jobs.

323
00:12:52.515 --> 00:12:55.015
<00:12:52.515>So <00:12:52.670>we <00:12:52.826>call <00:12:52.981>them <00:12:53.137>internally, <00:12:53.292>we <00:12:53.448>call <00:12:53.603>them <00:12:53.759>passive <00:12:53.915>candidates.

324
00:12:55.135 --> 00:12:56.455
<00:12:55.135>I <00:12:55.333>think <00:12:55.531>the <00:12:55.729>market <00:12:55.927>calls <00:12:56.125>them <00:12:56.323>probably

325
00:12:56.455 --> 00:12:57.495
<00:12:56.455>passive <00:12:56.767>candidates <00:12:57.079>as <00:12:57.391>well.

326
00:12:58.195 --> 00:13:01.055
<00:12:58.195>And <00:12:58.322>I <00:12:58.449>think <00:12:58.576>that <00:12:58.704>was <00:12:58.831>also <00:12:58.958>one <00:12:59.085>of <00:12:59.213>the <00:12:59.340>basic <00:12:59.467>founding <00:12:59.595>ideas

327
00:13:01.195 --> 00:13:03.855
<00:13:01.195>of, <00:13:01.370>of, <00:13:01.545>of <00:13:01.720>we <00:13:01.895>developers <00:13:02.070>when <00:13:02.245>we <00:13:02.420>started, <00:13:02.595>uh,

328
00:13:03.855 --> 00:13:04.975
<00:13:03.855>where <00:13:04.107>the <00:13:04.359>company <00:13:04.611>was <00:13:04.863>founded

329
00:13:05.035 --> 00:13:06.935
<00:13:05.035>and <00:13:05.314>started <00:13:05.594>to <00:13:05.875>have, <00:13:06.155>get <00:13:06.435>access

330
00:13:07.035 --> 00:13:09.215
<00:13:07.035>and <00:13:07.235>to <00:13:07.435>build <00:13:07.635>up <00:13:07.834>a <00:13:08.035>community, <00:13:08.235>getting <00:13:08.435>access

331
00:13:09.235 --> 00:13:10.975
<00:13:09.235>to <00:13:09.515>passive <00:13:09.795>candidates <00:13:10.075>on <00:13:10.355>one <00:13:10.635>hand

332
00:13:11.035 --> 00:13:14.175
<00:13:11.035>and <00:13:11.235>having <00:13:11.435>the <00:13:11.635>chance <00:13:11.834>to <00:13:12.035>market <00:13:12.235>products <00:13:12.435>there,

333
00:13:14.355 --> 00:13:17.135
<00:13:14.355>but <00:13:14.530>also <00:13:14.705>kind <00:13:14.880>of <00:13:15.055>get, <00:13:15.230>stay, <00:13:15.405>stay <00:13:15.580>in <00:13:15.755>contact.

334
00:13:17.135 --> 00:13:19.535
<00:13:17.135>Because <00:13:17.368>I <00:13:17.601>think <00:13:17.835>that's <00:13:18.068>a <00:13:18.301>big <00:13:18.535>difference

335
00:13:19.555 --> 00:13:21.415
<00:13:19.555>to <00:13:19.905>probably <00:13:20.255>generalistic <00:13:20.604>job <00:13:20.954>boards.

336
00:13:21.415 --> 00:13:23.745
<00:13:21.415>That <00:13:21.694>a <00:13:21.974>job <00:13:22.255>board <00:13:22.535>is <00:13:22.814>interesting

337
00:13:23.745 --> 00:13:25.785
<00:13:23.745>for <00:13:23.920>you <00:13:24.095>if <00:13:24.270>you're <00:13:24.445>really <00:13:24.620>looking <00:13:24.795>for <00:13:24.970>a <00:13:25.145>job.

338
00:13:26.305 --> 00:13:30.025
<00:13:26.305>I <00:13:26.444>mean, <00:13:26.584>as <00:13:26.724>the <00:13:26.864>average <00:13:27.005>European <00:13:27.145>is <00:13:27.285>changing <00:13:27.425>chops <00:13:27.564>every <00:13:27.704>five

339
00:13:30.025 --> 00:13:31.225
<00:13:30.025>to <00:13:30.385>seven <00:13:30.745>years, <00:13:31.105>probably.

340
00:13:31.585 --> 00:13:33.265
<00:13:31.585>I <00:13:31.725>mean, <00:13:31.865>that's, <00:13:32.005>we <00:13:32.145>don't <00:13:32.285>know <00:13:32.425>if <00:13:32.565>it's <00:13:32.705>still <00:13:32.845>the <00:13:32.985>average.

341
00:13:33.365 --> 00:13:34.985
<00:13:33.365>It <00:13:33.540>was <00:13:33.715>the <00:13:33.890>average <00:13:34.065>for <00:13:34.240>quite <00:13:34.415>some <00:13:34.590>long <00:13:34.765>time.

342
00:13:35.525 --> 00:13:38.745
<00:13:35.525>Uh, <00:13:35.699>it, <00:13:35.875>it <00:13:36.050>means <00:13:36.225>in <00:13:36.400>the <00:13:36.574>times <00:13:36.750>in <00:13:36.925>between,

343
00:13:39.485 --> 00:13:41.425
<00:13:39.485>all <00:13:39.640>the <00:13:39.796>chop <00:13:39.951>bots <00:13:40.107>are <00:13:40.262>not <00:13:40.418>really <00:13:40.573>interesting <00:13:40.729>for <00:13:40.885>you,

344
00:13:41.425 --> 00:13:43.425
<00:13:41.425>because <00:13:41.580>if <00:13:41.736>you're <00:13:41.891>not <00:13:42.047>looking <00:13:42.202>at <00:13:42.358>chop <00:13:42.513>for <00:13:42.669>a <00:13:42.824>chop,

345
00:13:43.525 --> 00:13:44.785
<00:13:43.525>why <00:13:43.687>should <00:13:43.848>you <00:13:44.011>go <00:13:44.173>on <00:13:44.334>a <00:13:44.497>job <00:13:44.659>bot?

346
00:13:45.285 --> 00:13:47.385
<00:13:45.285>And <00:13:45.440>I <00:13:45.596>think <00:13:45.751>the <00:13:45.907>idea <00:13:46.062>of <00:13:46.218>of <00:13:46.373>your <00:13:46.529>developers <00:13:46.685>was

347
00:13:47.385 --> 00:13:48.465
<00:13:47.385>to <00:13:47.709>build <00:13:48.033>a <00:13:48.357>community.

348
00:13:49.055 --> 00:13:52.465
<00:13:49.055>What <00:13:49.229>for <00:13:49.405>you <00:13:49.579>makes <00:13:49.755>a <00:13:49.930>community <00:13:50.104>a <00:13:50.280>good <00:13:50.454>community

349
00:13:52.605 --> 00:13:54.825
<00:13:52.605>or <00:13:52.760>what, <00:13:52.916>what, <00:13:53.071>what, <00:13:53.227>what, <00:13:53.382>what, <00:13:53.538>what <00:13:53.693>does <00:13:53.849>it <00:13:54.005>need

350
00:13:54.845 --> 00:13:56.465
<00:13:54.845>to <00:13:55.125>build <00:13:55.405>up <00:13:55.685>a <00:13:55.965>good <00:13:56.245>community?

351
00:13:57.125 --> 00:13:59.705
<00:13:57.125>And <00:13:57.325>the <00:13:57.525>second <00:13:57.725>question, <00:13:57.925>which <00:13:58.125>probably <00:13:58.325>could <00:13:58.525>put

352
00:14:00.345 --> 00:14:03.025
<00:14:00.345>additionally <00:14:00.625>onto <00:14:00.905>it, <00:14:01.185>is <00:14:01.465>how <00:14:01.745>could

353
00:14:04.245 --> 00:14:06.965
<00:14:04.245>companies <00:14:04.525>use <00:14:04.805>communities <00:14:05.085>for <00:14:05.365>their <00:14:05.645>needs?

354
00:14:08.315 --> 00:14:11.115
<00:14:08.315>Hmm. <00:14:08.431>Um, <00:14:08.548>I <00:14:08.665>mean, <00:14:08.781>I <00:14:08.898>can <00:14:09.015>actually <00:14:09.131>speak <00:14:09.248>first <00:14:09.365>of <00:14:09.481>all <00:14:09.598>on, <00:14:09.715>on,

355
00:14:11.495 --> 00:14:13.915
<00:14:11.495>I'm <00:14:11.670>gonna <00:14:11.845>sound <00:14:12.020>like <00:14:12.195>just <00:14:12.370>self-promoting <00:14:12.545>the <00:14:12.720>company <00:14:12.895>almost.

356
00:14:13.915 --> 00:14:15.995
<00:14:13.915>You <00:14:14.115>know, <00:14:14.314>in <00:14:14.515>saying <00:14:14.714>that, <00:14:14.915>um, <00:14:15.115>the <00:14:15.314>community,

357
00:14:15.995 --> 00:14:18.275
<00:14:15.995>the <00:14:16.150>first <00:14:16.306>community <00:14:16.461>that <00:14:16.617>I, <00:14:16.772>you <00:14:16.928>know, <00:14:17.083>real <00:14:17.239>life <00:14:17.395>community,

358
00:14:18.275 --> 00:14:20.235
<00:14:18.275>if <00:14:18.415>you <00:14:18.555>like, <00:14:18.694>that <00:14:18.834>I <00:14:18.975>joined <00:14:19.115>was <00:14:19.255>the <00:14:19.395>We <00:14:19.535>developers <00:14:19.675>community

359
00:14:20.415 --> 00:14:23.635
<00:14:20.415>in <00:14:20.555>that <00:14:20.694>I <00:14:20.834>was, <00:14:20.974>I <00:14:21.115>came <00:14:21.255>along <00:14:21.395>to <00:14:21.535>the <00:14:21.675>World <00:14:21.814>Congress,

360
00:14:23.715 --> 00:14:25.275
<00:14:23.715>I <00:14:23.995>volunteered <00:14:24.275>to <00:14:24.555>be <00:14:24.835>a <00:14:25.115>moderator.

361
00:14:25.515 --> 00:14:28.995
<00:14:25.515>I <00:14:25.642>got <00:14:25.769>on <00:14:25.896>stage, <00:14:26.024>I <00:14:26.151>was <00:14:26.278>off, <00:14:26.405>you <00:14:26.533>know, <00:14:26.660>given <00:14:26.787>that <00:14:26.915>opportunity

362
00:14:29.135 --> 00:14:30.355
<00:14:29.135>to <00:14:29.501>get <00:14:29.867>some <00:14:30.233>experience

363
00:14:30.355 --> 00:14:32.035
<00:14:30.355>of <00:14:30.588>doing <00:14:30.821>something <00:14:31.055>in <00:14:31.288>the <00:14:31.521>tech <00:14:31.755>community.

364
00:14:32.175 --> 00:14:35.275
<00:14:32.175>But <00:14:32.349>the, <00:14:32.525>the <00:14:32.699>biggest <00:14:32.875>takeaway <00:14:33.050>from <00:14:33.224>that, <00:14:33.400>you <00:14:33.574>know,

365
00:14:35.275 --> 00:14:36.795
<00:14:35.275>that <00:14:35.470>was <00:14:35.665>amazing, <00:14:35.861>but <00:14:36.056>the <00:14:36.252>biggest <00:14:36.447>takeaway <00:14:36.642>from

366
00:14:36.795 --> 00:14:39.075
<00:14:36.795>that <00:14:36.950>first <00:14:37.106>visit <00:14:37.261>to <00:14:37.417>the <00:14:37.572>World <00:14:37.728>Congress <00:14:37.883>was <00:14:38.039>just <00:14:38.194>meeting

367
00:14:39.325 --> 00:14:42.475
<00:14:39.325>loads <00:14:39.525>of <00:14:39.725>people <00:14:39.925>and <00:14:40.125>people <00:14:40.325>with <00:14:40.525>all <00:14:40.725>kinds

368
00:14:42.475 --> 00:14:45.115
<00:14:42.475>of <00:14:42.650>different <00:14:42.825>backgrounds <00:14:43.000>and <00:14:43.175>different <00:14:43.350>roles <00:14:43.525>in <00:14:43.700>the <00:14:43.875>tech

369
00:14:45.355 --> 00:14:47.635
<00:14:45.355>industry <00:14:45.705>and <00:14:46.055>different, <00:14:46.405>um, <00:14:46.755>experiences

370
00:14:47.735 --> 00:14:50.115
<00:14:47.735>and <00:14:47.890>different <00:14:48.046>stacks, <00:14:48.201>you <00:14:48.357>know, <00:14:48.512>that <00:14:48.668>they <00:14:48.823>use <00:14:48.979>the, <00:14:49.135>the,

371
00:14:50.115 --> 00:14:51.285
<00:14:50.115>the <00:14:50.466>coding <00:14:50.817>languages, <00:14:51.168>the

372
00:14:51.285 --> 00:14:52.445
<00:14:51.285>programming <00:14:51.545>languages <00:14:51.807>that <00:14:52.068>they <00:14:52.329>use.

373
00:14:52.785 --> 00:14:55.725
<00:14:52.785>Um, <00:14:52.940>so <00:14:53.096>I <00:14:53.251>really <00:14:53.407>felt <00:14:53.562>like, <00:14:53.718>oh, <00:14:53.873>there's, <00:14:54.029>there's <00:14:54.185>loads

374
00:14:55.725 --> 00:14:58.205
<00:14:55.725>of <00:14:55.852>people <00:14:55.979>out <00:14:56.106>there <00:14:56.234>like <00:14:56.361>me, <00:14:56.488>and <00:14:56.615>they <00:14:56.743>could <00:14:56.870>help <00:14:56.997>guide <00:14:57.125>me.

375
00:14:58.555 --> 00:15:00.885
<00:14:58.555>They <00:14:58.710>could, <00:14:58.866>um, <00:14:59.021>I, <00:14:59.177>I <00:14:59.332>can <00:14:59.488>give <00:14:59.643>you <00:14:59.799>one <00:14:59.954>thing

376
00:15:00.885 --> 00:15:03.445
<00:15:00.885>that <00:15:01.060>actually <00:15:01.235>was, <00:15:01.410>was, <00:15:01.585>uh, <00:15:01.760>one <00:15:01.935>really <00:15:02.110>important <00:15:02.285>thing,

377
00:15:03.445 --> 00:15:04.885
<00:15:03.445>and <00:15:03.589>it's <00:15:03.733>a <00:15:03.877>really, <00:15:04.021>it's <00:15:04.165>a <00:15:04.309>short <00:15:04.453>story, <00:15:04.597>I <00:15:04.741>suppose,

378
00:15:04.885 --> 00:15:05.845
<00:15:04.885>but <00:15:05.008>it <00:15:05.131>was <00:15:05.255>something <00:15:05.378>that <00:15:05.502>happened <00:15:05.625>at <00:15:05.749>the

379
00:15:05.845 --> 00:15:06.925
<00:15:05.845>World <00:15:06.039>Congress <00:15:06.233>that <00:15:06.428>I'll <00:15:06.622>never <00:15:06.817>forget.

380
00:15:07.185 --> 00:15:09.245
<00:15:07.185>Louise <00:15:07.464>Freeze, <00:15:07.744>who <00:15:08.025>has <00:15:08.305>spoken <00:15:08.584>at

381
00:15:09.245 --> 00:15:10.285
<00:15:09.245>the <00:15:09.432>Congress <00:15:09.619>a <00:15:09.806>couple <00:15:09.993>of <00:15:10.180>times.

382
00:15:10.705 --> 00:15:12.845
<00:15:10.705>Um, <00:15:10.905>I <00:15:11.105>was <00:15:11.305>sat <00:15:11.505>with <00:15:11.705>her <00:15:11.905>watching <00:15:12.105>somebody,

383
00:15:12.845 --> 00:15:14.405
<00:15:12.845>and <00:15:13.045>I <00:15:13.245>said <00:15:13.445>to <00:15:13.645>her, <00:15:13.845>I <00:15:14.045>was <00:15:14.245>moderating.

384
00:15:14.405 --> 00:15:16.285
<00:15:14.405>And <00:15:14.545>I <00:15:14.685>said, <00:15:14.824>how <00:15:14.964>have <00:15:15.105>I, <00:15:15.245>how <00:15:15.385>have <00:15:15.525>I <00:15:15.665>gotten <00:15:15.805>here

385
00:15:16.285 --> 00:15:17.885
<00:15:16.285>where <00:15:16.440>I'm <00:15:16.596>on <00:15:16.751>stage <00:15:16.907>and <00:15:17.062>I'm <00:15:17.218>being <00:15:17.373>allowed <00:15:17.529>to <00:15:17.685>go

386
00:15:17.885 --> 00:15:19.165
<00:15:17.885>and <00:15:18.077>moderate <00:15:18.269>and <00:15:18.461>bring <00:15:18.653>these <00:15:18.845>people <00:15:19.036>up?

387
00:15:19.225 --> 00:15:21.125
<00:15:19.225>I'm, <00:15:19.400>I'm <00:15:19.575>a <00:15:19.750>fraud. <00:15:19.925>I <00:15:20.100>was <00:15:20.275>having <00:15:20.450>imposter <00:15:20.625>syndrome,

388
00:15:21.145 --> 00:15:22.485
<00:15:21.145>you <00:15:21.386>know, <00:15:21.627>I'm, <00:15:21.868>I'm <00:15:22.109>a <00:15:22.351>fraud.

389
00:15:22.485 --> 00:15:23.885
<00:15:22.485>Like, <00:15:22.695>I'm, <00:15:22.905>I'm <00:15:23.115>not <00:15:23.325>a <00:15:23.535>real <00:15:23.745>developer.

390
00:15:23.885 --> 00:15:25.405
<00:15:23.885>I <00:15:24.037>just <00:15:24.189>make <00:15:24.341>things <00:15:24.492>and <00:15:24.645>put <00:15:24.797>them <00:15:24.949>on <00:15:25.101>the <00:15:25.252>internet.

391
00:15:25.405 --> 00:15:26.965
<00:15:25.405>And <00:15:25.579>she <00:15:25.755>said <00:15:25.930>to <00:15:26.105>me, <00:15:26.280>well, <00:15:26.454>you <00:15:26.630>develop, <00:15:26.805>right?

392
00:15:27.305 --> 00:15:28.725
<00:15:27.305>You <00:15:27.517>develop <00:15:27.731>things <00:15:27.944>and <00:15:28.157>you <00:15:28.370>put <00:15:28.583>them

393
00:15:28.725 --> 00:15:29.885
<00:15:28.725>out <00:15:28.933>there, <00:15:29.142>so <00:15:29.351>you're <00:15:29.560>a <00:15:29.769>developer.

394
00:15:30.145 --> 00:15:31.925
<00:15:30.145>And <00:15:30.285>she <00:15:30.425>said, <00:15:30.564>you've <00:15:30.704>got <00:15:30.845>just <00:15:30.985>as <00:15:31.125>much <00:15:31.265>of <00:15:31.405>a <00:15:31.545>right

395
00:15:31.925 --> 00:15:33.885
<00:15:31.925>to <00:15:32.080>be <00:15:32.236>in <00:15:32.391>this, <00:15:32.547>in <00:15:32.702>this <00:15:32.858>community <00:15:33.013>as <00:15:33.169>anybody <00:15:33.324>else,

396
00:15:33.905 --> 00:15:35.165
<00:15:33.905>and <00:15:34.093>in <00:15:34.283>this <00:15:34.472>room <00:15:34.661>as <00:15:34.849>anybody <00:15:35.039>else.

397
00:15:35.465 --> 00:15:38.445
<00:15:35.465>And <00:15:35.620>I <00:15:35.776>think <00:15:35.931>that <00:15:36.087>was <00:15:36.242>really <00:15:36.398>important <00:15:36.553>Yeah. <00:15:36.709>To <00:15:36.865>hear.

398
00:15:38.945 --> 00:15:41.485
<00:15:38.945>So <00:15:39.061>it <00:15:39.178>was, <00:15:39.295>it <00:15:39.411>was <00:15:39.528>a <00:15:39.645>part <00:15:39.761>of, <00:15:39.878>you <00:15:39.995>know, <00:15:40.111>seeing <00:15:40.228>that <00:15:40.345>you,

399
00:15:41.985 --> 00:15:43.165
<00:15:41.985>for <00:15:42.136>me, <00:15:42.288>it <00:15:42.440>was <00:15:42.591>actually <00:15:42.743>a <00:15:42.895>little <00:15:43.047>bit

400
00:15:43.165 --> 00:15:45.845
<00:15:43.165>of <00:15:43.365>validation <00:15:43.564>in <00:15:43.765>somebody <00:15:43.964>saying, <00:15:44.165>join <00:15:44.365>this <00:15:44.564>community

401
00:15:46.265 --> 00:15:49.245
<00:15:46.265>and <00:15:46.439>people <00:15:46.615>aren't <00:15:46.790>gonna <00:15:46.965>judge <00:15:47.140>you <00:15:47.314>for <00:15:47.490>your <00:15:47.665>skills.

402
00:15:49.245 --> 00:15:50.725
<00:15:49.245>They're <00:15:49.511>gonna <00:15:49.777>help <00:15:50.044>you <00:15:50.310>develop <00:15:50.577>them.

403
00:15:50.865 --> 00:15:51.805
<00:15:50.865>And <00:15:51.034>I <00:15:51.203>think <00:15:51.372>that <00:15:51.541>was <00:15:51.711>something

404
00:15:51.805 --> 00:15:52.965
<00:15:51.805>that <00:15:52.013>was <00:15:52.222>really <00:15:52.431>important <00:15:52.640>for <00:15:52.849>me.

405
00:15:53.385 --> 00:15:56.245
<00:15:53.385>Mm-hmm. <00:15:53.585>And <00:15:53.785>the <00:15:53.985>second <00:15:54.185>thing <00:15:54.385>is, <00:15:54.585>I <00:15:54.785>mean,

406
00:15:56.305 --> 00:16:00.725
<00:15:56.305>how <00:15:56.479>could <00:15:56.655>companies, <00:15:56.829>uh, <00:15:57.005>leverage <00:15:57.180>that, <00:15:57.354>uh, <00:15:57.530>being <00:15:57.704>part

407
00:16:00.725 --> 00:16:03.045
<00:16:00.725>of <00:16:00.958>a <00:16:01.191>community <00:16:01.425>and <00:16:01.658>if <00:16:01.891>the <00:16:02.125>enter,

408
00:16:03.045 --> 00:16:05.965
<00:16:03.045>because <00:16:03.172>what <00:16:03.299>I <00:16:03.426>see, <00:16:03.554>if <00:16:03.681>I <00:16:03.808>talk <00:16:03.935>to <00:16:04.063>companies, <00:16:04.190>if <00:16:04.317>I <00:16:04.444>talk

409
00:16:05.965 --> 00:16:08.445
<00:16:05.965>to <00:16:06.120>HR <00:16:06.276>people, <00:16:06.431>if <00:16:06.587>I <00:16:06.742>talk <00:16:06.898>to <00:16:07.053>talent <00:16:07.209>attraction <00:16:07.365>people,

410
00:16:08.955 --> 00:16:13.525
<00:16:08.955>they're <00:16:09.155>heavily <00:16:09.355>afraid <00:16:09.555>of <00:16:09.755>getting <00:16:09.955>into <00:16:10.155>these <00:16:10.355>communities

411
00:16:13.525 --> 00:16:15.325
<00:16:13.525>because <00:16:13.758>they <00:16:13.991>have <00:16:14.225>the <00:16:14.458>exactly <00:16:14.691>the <00:16:14.925>same

412
00:16:15.325 --> 00:16:16.645
<00:16:15.325>what <00:16:15.721>you <00:16:16.117>described <00:16:16.513>now.

413
00:16:16.915 --> 00:16:20.005
<00:16:16.915>Yeah. <00:16:17.055>Having <00:16:17.194>this <00:16:17.334>kind <00:16:17.474>of <00:16:17.615>fear <00:16:17.755>that <00:16:17.895>they're <00:16:18.035>not <00:16:18.175>good <00:16:18.314>enough

414
00:16:20.185 --> 00:16:21.565
<00:16:20.185>for <00:16:20.495>being <00:16:20.806>part <00:16:21.116>of <00:16:21.427>it.

415
00:16:22.705 --> 00:16:25.365
<00:16:22.705>How, <00:16:22.938>how <00:16:23.171>Death <00:16:23.405>Rail <00:16:23.638>probably <00:16:23.871>help <00:16:24.105>them

416
00:16:25.665 --> 00:16:26.965
<00:16:25.665>to <00:16:26.055>overcome <00:16:26.445>this <00:16:26.835>fear.

417
00:16:27.925 --> 00:16:29.335
<00:16:27.925>That <00:16:28.178>is <00:16:28.432>such <00:16:28.686>a, <00:16:28.940>that's <00:16:29.194>such

418
00:16:29.335 --> 00:16:30.535
<00:16:29.335>an <00:16:29.515>interesting <00:16:29.695>thing <00:16:29.875>for <00:16:30.055>me <00:16:30.235>to <00:16:30.415>hear.

419
00:16:30.735 --> 00:16:32.975
<00:16:30.735>'cause <00:16:30.890>it's <00:16:31.046>from <00:16:31.201>the <00:16:31.357>other <00:16:31.512>side <00:16:31.668>almost <00:16:31.823>of <00:16:31.979>saying, <00:16:32.135>well,

420
00:16:32.975 --> 00:16:34.975
<00:16:32.975>if <00:16:33.130>I <00:16:33.286>now <00:16:33.441>feel <00:16:33.597>like <00:16:33.752>I'm <00:16:33.908>a, <00:16:34.063>a, <00:16:34.219>a <00:16:34.375>developer,

421
00:16:34.975 --> 00:16:37.335
<00:16:34.975>then <00:16:35.130>people <00:16:35.286>on <00:16:35.441>the <00:16:35.597>other <00:16:35.752>side <00:16:35.908>not <00:16:36.063>feeling <00:16:36.219>like <00:16:36.375>that,

422
00:16:37.335 --> 00:16:38.495
<00:16:37.335>and <00:16:37.596>they <00:16:37.857>maybe <00:16:38.118>aren't <00:16:38.379>developers,

423
00:16:38.675 --> 00:16:39.975
<00:16:38.675>but <00:16:38.870>feeling <00:16:39.064>like <00:16:39.260>they <00:16:39.455>can't <00:16:39.650>even <00:16:39.845>speak

424
00:16:39.975 --> 00:16:41.055
<00:16:39.975>about <00:16:40.169>it, <00:16:40.363>it's <00:16:40.558>kind <00:16:40.752>of <00:16:40.947>sad.

425
00:16:41.105 --> 00:16:42.415
<00:16:41.105>Right? <00:16:41.694>Yeah. <00:16:42.284>Um,

426
00:16:42.525 --> 00:16:44.895
<00:16:42.525>because <00:16:42.758>I <00:16:42.991>think <00:16:43.225>actually <00:16:43.458>in <00:16:43.691>reality, <00:16:43.925>um,

427
00:16:45.105 --> 00:16:47.455
<00:16:45.105>developers <00:16:45.338>can <00:16:45.571>be <00:16:45.805>judgemental <00:16:46.038>with <00:16:46.271>the <00:16:46.505>technicals.

428
00:16:47.515 --> 00:16:48.895
<00:16:47.515>And <00:16:47.692>I <00:16:47.869>think <00:16:48.047>the <00:16:48.224>technical <00:16:48.402>side <00:16:48.579>of <00:16:48.757>things,

429
00:16:49.045 --> 00:16:52.095
<00:16:49.045>when <00:16:49.185>I <00:16:49.324>say <00:16:49.464>judgemental, <00:16:49.604>they <00:16:49.745>can <00:16:49.885>be <00:16:50.025>pedantic <00:16:50.165>to <00:16:50.305>some <00:16:50.444>degree,

430
00:16:52.355 --> 00:16:54.095
<00:16:52.355>you <00:16:52.510>know, <00:16:52.666>with <00:16:52.821>the, <00:16:52.977>with <00:16:53.132>the <00:16:53.288>technical <00:16:53.443>side <00:16:53.599>of <00:16:53.755>things.

431
00:16:54.275 --> 00:16:56.935
<00:16:54.275>And, <00:16:54.508>um, <00:16:54.741>sometimes <00:16:54.975>the, <00:16:55.208>the <00:16:55.441>difficulty <00:16:55.675>is,

432
00:16:56.995 --> 00:16:59.495
<00:16:56.995>is <00:16:57.228>having <00:16:57.461>a <00:16:57.695>conversation <00:16:57.928>about <00:16:58.161>technical <00:16:58.395>things

433
00:16:59.565 --> 00:17:02.295
<00:16:59.565>with <00:16:59.740>somebody <00:16:59.915>who <00:17:00.090>isn't <00:17:00.265>technical <00:17:00.440>and <00:17:00.615>it <00:17:00.790>making <00:17:00.965>sense.

434
00:17:02.675 --> 00:17:05.055
<00:17:02.675>So <00:17:02.849>I <00:17:03.025>think <00:17:03.199>that, <00:17:03.375>I <00:17:03.550>understand <00:17:03.724>for <00:17:03.900>the <00:17:04.075>company,

435
00:17:05.055 --> 00:17:06.815
<00:17:05.055>there's <00:17:05.255>a <00:17:05.455>little <00:17:05.655>bit <00:17:05.855>of, <00:17:06.055>uh, <00:17:06.255>you <00:17:06.455>have

436
00:17:06.815 --> 00:17:08.935
<00:17:06.815>to <00:17:06.970>take <00:17:07.126>a <00:17:07.281>risk <00:17:07.437>in <00:17:07.592>some <00:17:07.748>ways <00:17:07.903>for <00:17:08.059>your <00:17:08.215>brand,

437
00:17:08.935 --> 00:17:12.215
<00:17:08.935>because <00:17:09.109>if <00:17:09.284>you're <00:17:09.460>gonna <00:17:09.635>engage <00:17:09.810>in <00:17:09.984>that <00:17:10.159>community, <00:17:10.335>then

438
00:17:12.955 --> 00:17:15.015
<00:17:12.954>you <00:17:13.082>are <00:17:13.209>bringing <00:17:13.336>on <00:17:13.464>a <00:17:13.591>member <00:17:13.718>of <00:17:13.845>staff <00:17:13.973>who's <00:17:14.100>gonna <00:17:14.227>be <00:17:14.355>a

439
00:17:15.015 --> 00:17:16.495
<00:17:15.015>developer <00:17:15.237>advocate, <00:17:15.459>and <00:17:15.681>they're <00:17:15.903>gonna <00:17:16.125>represent <00:17:16.347>you

440
00:17:16.495 --> 00:17:18.135
<00:17:16.494>and <00:17:16.774>they're <00:17:17.054>gonna <00:17:17.334>be <00:17:17.614>on <00:17:17.895>Reddit,

441
00:17:18.235 --> 00:17:20.615
<00:17:18.234>or <00:17:18.409>they're <00:17:18.584>gonna <00:17:18.760>be, <00:17:18.935>you <00:17:19.109>know, <00:17:19.284>in, <00:17:19.459>um, <00:17:19.635>one

442
00:17:20.615 --> 00:17:22.375
<00:17:20.615>of <00:17:20.964>these <00:17:21.315>discord, <00:17:21.665>um, <00:17:22.015>servers.

443
00:17:22.435 --> 00:17:25.535
<00:17:22.435>And <00:17:22.551>you <00:17:22.668>as <00:17:22.784>a <00:17:22.901>company, <00:17:23.018>you <00:17:23.135>feel <00:17:23.251>it's <00:17:23.368>away <00:17:23.484>from <00:17:23.601>your <00:17:23.718>site, <00:17:23.835>out

444
00:17:25.535 --> 00:17:26.775
<00:17:25.535>of <00:17:25.907>your <00:17:26.279>control, <00:17:26.651>and

445
00:17:26.775 --> 00:17:28.495
<00:17:26.775>that <00:17:26.950>they <00:17:27.125>could <00:17:27.300>do <00:17:27.475>things <00:17:27.650>that <00:17:27.825>harm <00:17:28.000>the <00:17:28.175>brand.

446
00:17:28.495 --> 00:17:30.815
<00:17:28.494>And <00:17:28.622>I <00:17:28.749>think <00:17:28.876>there's <00:17:29.004>trust <00:17:29.131>that <00:17:29.258>has <00:17:29.385>to <00:17:29.513>be <00:17:29.640>put <00:17:29.767>in <00:17:29.895>the,

447
00:17:31.195 --> 00:17:33.535
<00:17:31.195>in <00:17:31.350>the <00:17:31.506>arms <00:17:31.661>of <00:17:31.817>the <00:17:31.972>developer <00:17:32.128>advocate <00:17:32.283>to <00:17:32.439>understand <00:17:32.595>what

448
00:17:33.535 --> 00:17:35.375
<00:17:33.535>that <00:17:33.815>brand <00:17:34.095>is, <00:17:34.375>represent <00:17:34.655>it <00:17:34.935>well,

449
00:17:35.755 --> 00:17:40.695
<00:17:35.755>and <00:17:35.895>connect <00:17:36.035>with, <00:17:36.175>uh, <00:17:36.315>the <00:17:36.455>community <00:17:36.595>who, <00:17:36.735>the, <00:17:36.875>the <00:17:37.015>final <00:17:37.155>part

450
00:17:40.695 --> 00:17:42.495
<00:17:40.695>of <00:17:40.975>that, <00:17:41.254>being <00:17:41.534>in <00:17:41.814>those <00:17:42.095>communities

451
00:17:42.715 --> 00:17:47.015
<00:17:42.715>and <00:17:42.870>being <00:17:43.026>authentic <00:17:43.181>is <00:17:43.337>such <00:17:43.492>a, <00:17:43.648>has <00:17:43.803>so <00:17:43.959>much <00:17:44.115>currency.

452
00:17:47.675 --> 00:17:50.085
<00:17:47.675>If <00:17:47.908>you <00:17:48.141>are <00:17:48.375>in <00:17:48.608>Discord <00:17:48.841>community <00:17:49.075>servers

453
00:17:50.505 --> 00:17:52.805
<00:17:50.505>and <00:17:50.680>you <00:17:50.855>are <00:17:51.030>being <00:17:51.205>honest <00:17:51.380>about <00:17:51.555>what <00:17:51.730>you <00:17:51.905>know

454
00:17:52.825 --> 00:17:55.965
<00:17:52.825>and <00:17:52.952>you <00:17:53.079>don't <00:17:53.206>know, <00:17:53.334>and <00:17:53.461>if <00:17:53.588>you <00:17:53.715>are <00:17:53.843>there <00:17:53.970>from <00:17:54.097>a <00:17:54.225>company,

455
00:17:55.965 --> 00:17:57.285
<00:17:55.965>you're <00:17:56.163>not <00:17:56.360>trying <00:17:56.559>to <00:17:56.757>do <00:17:56.955>the <00:17:57.153>hard

456
00:17:57.315 --> 00:17:58.885
<00:17:57.315>sell, <00:17:57.595>I <00:17:57.875>think <00:17:58.155>that's <00:17:58.435>really <00:17:58.715>important.

457
00:17:58.985 --> 00:18:01.325
<00:17:58.985>But <00:17:59.112>if <00:17:59.239>you're <00:17:59.366>just <00:17:59.494>in <00:17:59.621>those <00:17:59.748>communities, <00:17:59.875>I, <00:18:00.003>I, <00:18:00.130>I <00:18:00.257>would <00:18:00.385>say,

458
00:18:01.505 --> 00:18:03.085
<00:18:01.505>um, <00:18:01.660>you <00:18:01.816>know, <00:18:01.971>to <00:18:02.127>my <00:18:02.282>friends, <00:18:02.438>I <00:18:02.593>suppose <00:18:02.749>it's <00:18:02.905>just,

459
00:18:03.085 --> 00:18:04.885
<00:18:03.085>just <00:18:03.285>being <00:18:03.485>a <00:18:03.685>person, <00:18:03.885>just <00:18:04.085>being <00:18:04.285>a <00:18:04.485>person.

460
00:18:05.115 --> 00:18:08.205
<00:18:05.115>Nothing <00:18:05.270>more. <00:18:05.426>Just <00:18:05.581>being <00:18:05.737>in <00:18:05.892>that, <00:18:06.048>being <00:18:06.203>in <00:18:06.359>that <00:18:06.515>community.

461
00:18:08.405 --> 00:18:10.685
<00:18:08.405>'cause <00:18:08.580>you're <00:18:08.754>welcome. <00:18:08.930>Not <00:18:09.105>trying <00:18:09.280>to <00:18:09.455>sell <00:18:09.629>people <00:18:09.805>things,

462
00:18:10.895 --> 00:18:12.725
<00:18:10.895>being <00:18:11.035>honest <00:18:11.175>about <00:18:11.315>what <00:18:11.455>you <00:18:11.595>know <00:18:11.735>and <00:18:11.875>what <00:18:12.014>you <00:18:12.155>don't <00:18:12.295>know,

463
00:18:13.145 --> 00:18:15.405
<00:18:13.145>but <00:18:13.285>putting <00:18:13.425>a <00:18:13.565>little <00:18:13.705>bit <00:18:13.845>of <00:18:13.985>trust <00:18:14.125>in <00:18:14.264>that <00:18:14.405>developer <00:18:14.545>advocate

464
00:18:15.405 --> 00:18:16.645
<00:18:15.405>to <00:18:15.591>be <00:18:15.777>that <00:18:15.963>person <00:18:16.149>and <00:18:16.335>do <00:18:16.521>that.

465
00:18:16.945 --> 00:18:19.325
<00:18:16.945>Mm-hmm. <00:18:17.120>Then <00:18:17.294>you'll <00:18:17.470>really <00:18:17.645>be <00:18:17.820>able <00:18:17.995>to <00:18:18.169>leverage <00:18:18.345>it

466
00:18:19.325 --> 00:18:21.845
<00:18:19.325>because <00:18:19.480>you'll <00:18:19.636>find <00:18:19.791>the, <00:18:19.947>the <00:18:20.102>members <00:18:20.258>of <00:18:20.413>staff <00:18:20.569>you're <00:18:20.725>looking

467
00:18:21.845 --> 00:18:22.885
<00:18:21.845>for, <00:18:22.079>you'll <00:18:22.313>find <00:18:22.547>the <00:18:22.781>users,

468
00:18:23.065 --> 00:18:24.805
<00:18:23.065>you'll <00:18:23.240>find <00:18:23.415>all <00:18:23.590>of <00:18:23.765>them <00:18:23.940>in <00:18:24.115>that <00:18:24.290>one <00:18:24.465>place.

469
00:18:26.075 --> 00:18:30.455
<00:18:26.075>Mm-hmm. <00:18:26.230>So <00:18:26.386>that <00:18:26.541>could <00:18:26.697>also <00:18:26.852>be <00:18:27.008>a <00:18:27.163>kind <00:18:27.319>of, <00:18:27.475>um,

470
00:18:31.615 --> 00:18:33.415
<00:18:31.615>I <00:18:31.965>mean, <00:18:32.315>within <00:18:32.665>employer <00:18:33.015>branding,

471
00:18:33.535 --> 00:18:36.415
<00:18:33.535>I <00:18:33.690>think <00:18:33.846>we <00:18:34.001>are <00:18:34.157>just <00:18:34.312>ha <00:18:34.468>heavily <00:18:34.623>talking <00:18:34.779>about <00:18:34.935>being

472
00:18:36.415 --> 00:18:39.335
<00:18:36.415>authentic, <00:18:36.570>not <00:18:36.726>telling <00:18:36.881>some <00:18:37.037>kind <00:18:37.192>of <00:18:37.348>stories <00:18:37.503>which <00:18:37.659>are <00:18:37.815>fluffy

473
00:18:39.335 --> 00:18:41.255
<00:18:39.335>and, <00:18:39.615>and, <00:18:39.895>and <00:18:40.175>shiny <00:18:40.455>and <00:18:40.735>shimmery

474
00:18:41.255 --> 00:18:43.935
<00:18:41.255>and <00:18:41.430>their, <00:18:41.605>I <00:18:41.780>mean, <00:18:41.955>in <00:18:42.130>2019, <00:18:42.305>everybody <00:18:42.480>wanted, <00:18:42.655>with

475
00:18:44.465 --> 00:18:46.575
<00:18:44.465>their <00:18:44.745>employer <00:18:45.024>branding <00:18:45.304>stories, <00:18:45.584>they <00:18:45.865>wanted

476
00:18:46.575 --> 00:18:48.735
<00:18:46.575>to <00:18:46.730>be <00:18:46.886>like <00:18:47.041>Google <00:18:47.197>and <00:18:47.352>everybody <00:18:47.508>built <00:18:47.663>a <00:18:47.819>nice <00:18:47.975>campus

477
00:18:48.875 --> 00:18:50.575
<00:18:48.875>before <00:18:49.341>pandemic <00:18:49.808>showed <00:18:50.275>up.

478
00:18:50.595 --> 00:18:53.855
<00:18:50.595>Mm. <00:18:50.770>And <00:18:50.945>everybody <00:18:51.120>wanted <00:18:51.295>to <00:18:51.470>have <00:18:51.645>this <00:18:51.820>stylish, <00:18:51.995>new,

479
00:18:54.085 --> 00:18:55.255
<00:18:54.085>wonderful, <00:18:54.611>nice <00:18:55.138>office.

480
00:18:55.395 --> 00:18:57.935
<00:18:55.395>And, <00:18:55.535>uh, <00:18:55.675>so <00:18:55.815>I <00:18:55.955>think <00:18:56.095>that <00:18:56.235>was <00:18:56.375>the <00:18:56.514>trend <00:18:56.655>back <00:18:56.795>then

481
00:18:58.675 --> 00:19:01.685
<00:18:58.675>and <00:18:59.141>what <00:18:59.608>you <00:19:00.075>described.

482
00:19:01.945 --> 00:19:04.205
<00:19:01.945>Uh, <00:19:02.061>I <00:19:02.178>mean, <00:19:02.294>of <00:19:02.411>course <00:19:02.528>it <00:19:02.645>has <00:19:02.761>a <00:19:02.878>lot <00:19:02.995>to <00:19:03.111>do <00:19:03.228>with <00:19:03.345>trust,

483
00:19:04.265 --> 00:19:06.325
<00:19:04.265>and <00:19:04.440>I <00:19:04.615>think <00:19:04.790>that's <00:19:04.965>probably <00:19:05.140>an <00:19:05.315>issue <00:19:05.490>for <00:19:05.665>itself

484
00:19:06.325 --> 00:19:10.645
<00:19:06.325>because <00:19:06.480>trusting <00:19:06.636>people <00:19:06.791>in <00:19:06.947>representing <00:19:07.102>the <00:19:07.258>company <00:19:07.413>in <00:19:07.569>a <00:19:07.725>way

485
00:19:10.645 --> 00:19:12.125
<00:19:10.645>that <00:19:11.089>is <00:19:11.533>authentic <00:19:11.977>and,

486
00:19:12.465 --> 00:19:15.605
<00:19:12.465>and <00:19:12.592>real <00:19:12.719>is <00:19:12.846>always <00:19:12.974>a <00:19:13.101>kind <00:19:13.228>of <00:19:13.355>a <00:19:13.483>balance <00:19:13.610>act <00:19:13.737>as <00:19:13.865>well.

487
00:19:15.605 --> 00:19:18.765
<00:19:15.605>Because <00:19:15.745>I <00:19:15.885>mean, <00:19:16.025>if <00:19:16.165>you, <00:19:16.305>if <00:19:16.445>you <00:19:16.585>go <00:19:16.725>out <00:19:16.865>and <00:19:17.005>they,

488
00:19:19.265 --> 00:19:21.365
<00:19:19.265>and <00:19:19.420>tell <00:19:19.576>the <00:19:19.731>people, <00:19:19.887>okay, <00:19:20.042>we <00:19:20.198>are <00:19:20.353>good <00:19:20.509>in <00:19:20.665>that,

489
00:19:21.385 --> 00:19:22.405
<00:19:21.385>but <00:19:21.691>we're <00:19:21.997>not <00:19:22.303>definitely,

490
00:19:22.535 --> 00:19:24.845
<00:19:22.535>definitely <00:19:22.815>not <00:19:23.095>good <00:19:23.375>in <00:19:23.655>that <00:19:23.935>aspect.

491
00:19:25.325 --> 00:19:27.045
<00:19:25.325>I <00:19:25.480>mean, <00:19:25.636>it, <00:19:25.791>of <00:19:25.947>course, <00:19:26.102>it's <00:19:26.258>a <00:19:26.413>danger <00:19:26.569>in <00:19:26.725>itself,

492
00:19:27.065 --> 00:19:28.285
<00:19:27.065>but <00:19:27.248>it <00:19:27.431>has <00:19:27.614>to <00:19:27.797>do <00:19:27.980>with <00:19:28.163>trust.

493
00:19:28.345 --> 00:19:30.445
<00:19:28.345>But <00:19:28.520>do <00:19:28.695>you <00:19:28.870>think <00:19:29.045>it <00:19:29.220>could <00:19:29.395>do <00:19:29.570>a <00:19:29.745>lot?

494
00:19:30.685 --> 00:19:32.045
<00:19:30.685>I <00:19:30.859>mean, <00:19:31.034>this <00:19:31.209>approach <00:19:31.384>could <00:19:31.559>do <00:19:31.734>a <00:19:31.909>lot

495
00:19:32.065 --> 00:19:33.925
<00:19:32.065>for <00:19:32.531>authentic <00:19:32.998>employer <00:19:33.465>branding?

496
00:19:35.025 --> 00:19:36.705
<00:19:35.025>Absolutely. <00:19:35.305>Absolutely. <00:19:35.585>I <00:19:35.865>think <00:19:36.145>that <00:19:36.425>it's,

497
00:19:36.855 --> 00:19:40.025
<00:19:36.855>it's <00:19:36.982>more <00:19:37.109>than <00:19:37.236>just <00:19:37.364>putting <00:19:37.491>a, <00:19:37.618>uh, <00:19:37.745>a <00:19:37.873>face <00:19:38.000>to <00:19:38.127>the <00:19:38.255>brand.

498
00:19:40.385 --> 00:19:43.345
<00:19:40.385>I <00:19:40.512>think <00:19:40.639>it <00:19:40.766>is <00:19:40.894>about, <00:19:41.021>um, <00:19:41.148>showing <00:19:41.275>that, <00:19:41.403>you <00:19:41.530>know, <00:19:41.657>the, <00:19:41.785>the,

499
00:19:43.725 --> 00:19:45.465
<00:19:43.725>if <00:19:43.958>the <00:19:44.191>brand <00:19:44.425>makes <00:19:44.658>a <00:19:44.891>mistake, <00:19:45.125>that's

500
00:19:45.465 --> 00:19:48.025
<00:19:45.465>where <00:19:45.605>there's <00:19:45.745>a <00:19:45.885>really <00:19:46.024>good <00:19:46.165>example <00:19:46.304>is <00:19:46.445>if <00:19:46.584>the, <00:19:46.725>if <00:19:46.865>the,

501
00:19:48.165 --> 00:19:50.265
<00:19:48.165>if <00:19:48.340>the, <00:19:48.514>if <00:19:48.690>the <00:19:48.865>software, <00:19:49.040>for <00:19:49.215>example, <00:19:49.389>I, <00:19:49.565>I,

502
00:19:50.305 --> 00:19:52.185
<00:19:50.305>I <00:19:50.480>wouldn't <00:19:50.655>bring <00:19:50.830>a, <00:19:51.005>okay, <00:19:51.180>there <00:19:51.355>was <00:19:51.530>a, <00:19:51.705>uh,

503
00:19:52.345 --> 00:19:54.665
<00:19:52.345>a <00:19:52.545>specific <00:19:52.745>brand <00:19:52.945>recently, <00:19:53.145>a <00:19:53.345>a <00:19:53.545>tech <00:19:53.745>brand,

504
00:19:54.885 --> 00:19:57.385
<00:19:54.885>and <00:19:55.085>they <00:19:55.285>had <00:19:55.485>a, <00:19:55.685>um, <00:19:55.885>they <00:19:56.085>handled <00:19:56.285>deployments,

505
00:19:57.385 --> 00:19:59.025
<00:19:57.385>so <00:19:57.665>basically <00:19:57.945>putting <00:19:58.225>your <00:19:58.504>website <00:19:58.785>online,

506
00:19:59.565 --> 00:20:01.585
<00:19:59.565>and <00:19:59.798>they <00:20:00.031>had <00:20:00.265>a <00:20:00.498>big <00:20:00.731>security <00:20:00.965>issue.

507
00:20:01.645 --> 00:20:03.465
<00:20:01.645>And <00:20:01.820>I <00:20:01.995>didn't <00:20:02.170>look <00:20:02.345>into <00:20:02.520>the <00:20:02.695>specifics <00:20:02.870>of <00:20:03.045>it,

508
00:20:03.465 --> 00:20:05.545
<00:20:03.465>but <00:20:03.698>essentially <00:20:03.931>the <00:20:04.165>security <00:20:04.398>issue <00:20:04.631>was <00:20:04.865>overlooked

509
00:20:05.605 --> 00:20:07.505
<00:20:05.605>for <00:20:05.745>a <00:20:05.885>little <00:20:06.025>while, <00:20:06.165>and <00:20:06.305>a <00:20:06.445>lot <00:20:06.585>of <00:20:06.725>people <00:20:06.865>were <00:20:07.005>affected.

510
00:20:08.045 --> 00:20:11.505
<00:20:08.045>Now, <00:20:08.220>the, <00:20:08.395>the <00:20:08.570>developer <00:20:08.745>relations <00:20:08.920>team <00:20:09.095>were <00:20:09.270>the <00:20:09.445>people

511
00:20:11.605 --> 00:20:14.185
<00:20:11.605>who <00:20:11.760>were <00:20:11.916>helping <00:20:12.071>to <00:20:12.227>smooth <00:20:12.382>over <00:20:12.538>some <00:20:12.693>of <00:20:12.849>those <00:20:13.005>issues.

512
00:20:14.365 --> 00:20:16.665
<00:20:14.365>And <00:20:14.598>what <00:20:14.831>I <00:20:15.065>really <00:20:15.298>appreciated <00:20:15.531>actually, <00:20:15.765>was

513
00:20:16.665 --> 00:20:19.825
<00:20:16.665>that <00:20:16.820>they <00:20:16.976>didn't <00:20:17.131>try <00:20:17.287>and <00:20:17.442>say, <00:20:17.598>uh, <00:20:17.753>they <00:20:17.909>didn't <00:20:18.065>try

514
00:20:19.825 --> 00:20:22.025
<00:20:19.825>and <00:20:19.965>just <00:20:20.105>focus <00:20:20.245>actually <00:20:20.385>on, <00:20:20.525>like, <00:20:20.665>this <00:20:20.805>is <00:20:20.945>what <00:20:21.085>we've <00:20:21.225>done.

515
00:20:22.405 --> 00:20:23.865
<00:20:22.405>It <00:20:22.624>was, <00:20:22.843>they <00:20:23.062>were <00:20:23.281>trying <00:20:23.500>to <00:20:23.719>explain

516
00:20:23.885 --> 00:20:25.025
<00:20:23.885>how <00:20:24.141>that <00:20:24.398>issue <00:20:24.654>had <00:20:24.911>happened.

517
00:20:25.525 --> 00:20:27.065
<00:20:25.525>And <00:20:25.723>I <00:20:25.921>felt <00:20:26.119>that <00:20:26.317>that <00:20:26.515>was <00:20:26.713>quite <00:20:26.911>important

518
00:20:27.065 --> 00:20:28.825
<00:20:27.065>because <00:20:27.240>it <00:20:27.415>was <00:20:27.590>saying <00:20:27.765>we <00:20:27.940>we're <00:20:28.115>really <00:20:28.290>gonna <00:20:28.465>take

519
00:20:28.825 --> 00:20:29.945
<00:20:28.825>account <00:20:28.969>for <00:20:29.113>it, <00:20:29.257>and <00:20:29.401>we're <00:20:29.545>gonna <00:20:29.688>be <00:20:29.832>honest.

520
00:20:29.945 --> 00:20:32.305
<00:20:29.945>We're <00:20:30.072>gonna <00:20:30.199>open <00:20:30.326>the <00:20:30.454>doors <00:20:30.581>and <00:20:30.708>say, <00:20:30.835>this <00:20:30.963>is <00:20:31.090>how <00:20:31.217>it <00:20:31.345>happened.

521
00:20:32.305 --> 00:20:34.425
<00:20:32.305>This <00:20:32.460>is <00:20:32.616>what <00:20:32.771>we <00:20:32.927>did <00:20:33.082>wrong, <00:20:33.238>not <00:20:33.393>just <00:20:33.549>what <00:20:33.705>happened

522
00:20:34.445 --> 00:20:36.145
<00:20:34.445>as <00:20:34.645>a <00:20:34.845>result <00:20:35.044>of <00:20:35.245>us <00:20:35.445>doing <00:20:35.645>things <00:20:35.845>wrong.

523
00:20:36.725 --> 00:20:39.425
<00:20:36.725>Um, <00:20:36.880>and <00:20:37.036>so <00:20:37.191>I <00:20:37.347>think <00:20:37.502>that <00:20:37.658>the <00:20:37.813>employer <00:20:37.969>branding <00:20:38.125>was

524
00:20:39.425 --> 00:20:41.185
<00:20:39.425>that <00:20:39.658>they <00:20:39.891>had <00:20:40.125>a <00:20:40.358>real <00:20:40.591>risk <00:20:40.825>there

525
00:20:41.205 --> 00:20:42.985
<00:20:41.205>of <00:20:41.485>losing <00:20:41.764>a <00:20:42.044>lot <00:20:42.324>of <00:20:42.605>customers.

526
00:20:42.985 --> 00:20:44.785
<00:20:42.985>There <00:20:43.125>were <00:20:43.264>gonna <00:20:43.405>be <00:20:43.544>a <00:20:43.685>lot <00:20:43.824>of <00:20:43.965>people <00:20:44.104>who <00:20:44.245>just <00:20:44.385>said,

527
00:20:44.965 --> 00:20:48.005
<00:20:44.965>the <00:20:45.139>trust <00:20:45.314>in <00:20:45.490>this <00:20:45.665>company <00:20:45.840>is <00:20:46.014>on <00:20:46.189>shaky <00:20:46.365>ground,

528
00:20:48.005 --> 00:20:49.165
<00:20:48.005>and <00:20:48.213>I <00:20:48.422>look <00:20:48.631>for <00:20:48.840>an <00:20:49.049>alternative.

529
00:20:49.505 --> 00:20:52.085
<00:20:49.505>So <00:20:49.680>by <00:20:49.855>them <00:20:50.030>being <00:20:50.205>just, <00:20:50.380>by <00:20:50.555>just <00:20:50.730>being <00:20:50.905>people,

530
00:20:52.265 --> 00:20:54.245
<00:20:52.265>by <00:20:52.615>being <00:20:52.965>real <00:20:53.315>people <00:20:53.665>responding

531
00:20:54.245 --> 00:20:56.445
<00:20:54.245>and <00:20:54.594>saying, <00:20:54.945>sorry, <00:20:55.294>not <00:20:55.645>having

532
00:20:56.445 --> 00:20:57.965
<00:20:56.445>to <00:20:56.673>be <00:20:56.900>very <00:20:57.129>corporate <00:20:57.357>all <00:20:57.585>the <00:20:57.812>time.

533
00:20:58.585 --> 00:21:00.565
<00:20:58.585>Um, <00:20:58.785>I <00:20:58.985>can <00:20:59.185>say <00:20:59.385>for <00:20:59.585>myself, <00:20:59.785>I <00:20:59.985>really,

534
00:21:00.565 --> 00:21:02.045
<00:21:00.565>really <00:21:00.831>don't <00:21:01.097>respond <00:21:01.364>well <00:21:01.630>when <00:21:01.897>I

535
00:21:02.045 --> 00:21:03.245
<00:21:02.045>feel <00:21:02.261>a <00:21:02.477>company <00:21:02.693>is <00:21:02.908>very <00:21:03.125>corporate.

536
00:21:03.765 --> 00:21:07.485
<00:21:03.765>I <00:21:03.905>feel <00:21:04.045>it's <00:21:04.185>stale. <00:21:04.325>It's <00:21:04.465>almost, <00:21:04.605>it <00:21:04.745>feels <00:21:04.885>chat <00:21:05.025>GPT <00:21:05.165>now.

537
00:21:07.865 --> 00:21:10.365
<00:21:07.865>It <00:21:07.992>does. <00:21:08.119>It's <00:21:08.246>at <00:21:08.374>that <00:21:08.501>point <00:21:08.628>where <00:21:08.755>it <00:21:08.883>feels <00:21:09.010>like <00:21:09.137>you <00:21:09.265>haven't,

538
00:21:10.465 --> 00:21:11.565
<00:21:10.465>you <00:21:10.795>haven't <00:21:11.125>even <00:21:11.455>tried

539
00:21:11.565 --> 00:21:13.605
<00:21:11.565>because <00:21:11.915>those, <00:21:12.265>those <00:21:12.615>very <00:21:12.965>corporate

540
00:21:13.605 --> 00:21:14.845
<00:21:13.605>things <00:21:13.977>didn't <00:21:14.349>feel <00:21:14.721>authentic.

541
00:21:15.265 --> 00:21:16.565
<00:21:15.265>And <00:21:15.460>now <00:21:15.655>you <00:21:15.850>feel <00:21:16.045>like, <00:21:16.240>well, <00:21:16.435>you,

542
00:21:16.565 --> 00:21:18.445
<00:21:16.565>that's <00:21:16.705>the <00:21:16.845>first <00:21:16.985>thing <00:21:17.125>you're <00:21:17.265>gonna <00:21:17.405>get <00:21:17.545>when <00:21:17.685>you <00:21:17.825>ask <00:21:17.965>chat

543
00:21:18.485 --> 00:21:20.725
<00:21:18.485>GPT, <00:21:18.685>you're <00:21:18.885>gonna <00:21:19.084>get <00:21:19.284>a <00:21:19.485>corporate <00:21:19.685>inauthentic <00:21:19.885>style.

544
00:21:21.105 --> 00:21:22.165
<00:21:21.105>And <00:21:21.295>it <00:21:21.486>feels <00:21:21.677>like <00:21:21.868>a <00:21:22.059>lot

545
00:21:22.165 --> 00:21:24.165
<00:21:22.165>of <00:21:22.398>the <00:21:22.631>time <00:21:22.865>when <00:21:23.098>companies <00:21:23.331>don't <00:21:23.565>understand

546
00:21:24.165 --> 00:21:27.205
<00:21:24.165>that <00:21:24.320>authenticity, <00:21:24.476>that's <00:21:24.631>the <00:21:24.787>kind <00:21:24.942>of <00:21:25.098>tone <00:21:25.253>that <00:21:25.409>they <00:21:25.565>have.

547
00:21:27.265 --> 00:21:29.725
<00:21:27.265>And <00:21:27.420>that <00:21:27.576>doesn't <00:21:27.731>land <00:21:27.887>well <00:21:28.042>with <00:21:28.198>people <00:21:28.353>like <00:21:28.509>myself, <00:21:28.665>um,

548
00:21:29.745 --> 00:21:31.045
<00:21:29.745>and <00:21:30.037>other <00:21:30.330>developers, <00:21:30.622>I <00:21:30.915>think.

549
00:21:31.465 --> 00:21:35.485
<00:21:31.465>Mm-hmm. <00:21:31.665>And <00:21:31.865>if, <00:21:32.064>if <00:21:32.264>communists <00:21:32.465>have <00:21:32.665>the <00:21:32.865>plan

550
00:21:35.505 --> 00:21:37.605
<00:21:35.505>or <00:21:35.680>start <00:21:35.855>thinking <00:21:36.030>building <00:21:36.205>up <00:21:36.380>a <00:21:36.555>kind <00:21:36.730>of, <00:21:36.905>um,

551
00:21:38.355 --> 00:21:40.365
<00:21:38.355>develop <00:21:38.705>a <00:21:39.055>relations <00:21:39.405>team, <00:21:39.755>um,

552
00:21:40.785 --> 00:21:43.925
<00:21:40.785>and <00:21:40.925>they <00:21:41.065>have <00:21:41.205>no <00:21:41.345>idea <00:21:41.485>how <00:21:41.625>to <00:21:41.765>start, <00:21:41.905>what <00:21:42.045>would <00:21:42.185>be,

553
00:21:43.995 --> 00:21:46.005
<00:21:43.995>from <00:21:44.195>your <00:21:44.395>point <00:21:44.594>of <00:21:44.794>view, <00:21:44.995>the <00:21:45.195>first <00:21:45.395>two,

554
00:21:46.005 --> 00:21:49.245
<00:21:46.005>three <00:21:46.160>steps <00:21:46.316>which <00:21:46.471>are <00:21:46.627>necessary <00:21:46.782>to <00:21:46.938>be <00:21:47.093>taken <00:21:47.249>by <00:21:47.405>companies

555
00:21:49.305 --> 00:21:50.565
<00:21:49.305>to <00:21:49.683>set <00:21:50.061>it <00:21:50.439>up?

556
00:21:51.545 --> 00:21:54.565
<00:21:51.545>And <00:21:51.778>is <00:21:52.011>it, <00:21:52.245>how <00:21:52.478>complex <00:21:52.711>is <00:21:52.945>it?

557
00:21:54.625 --> 00:21:56.765
<00:21:54.625>Uh, <00:21:54.905>how <00:21:55.185>many <00:21:55.465>preparation <00:21:55.745>is <00:21:56.025>needed?

558
00:21:56.945 --> 00:21:59.405
<00:21:56.945>Or <00:21:57.085>is <00:21:57.225>it <00:21:57.365>just <00:21:57.504>going <00:21:57.645>to <00:21:57.784>one <00:21:57.925>of <00:21:58.064>the <00:21:58.205>senior <00:21:58.345>developers

559
00:21:59.425 --> 00:22:02.325
<00:21:59.425>and <00:21:59.580>ask, <00:21:59.736>do <00:21:59.891>you <00:22:00.047>want <00:22:00.202>to <00:22:00.358>be <00:22:00.513>a <00:22:00.669>developer <00:22:00.825>advocate?

560
00:22:03.305 --> 00:22:05.305
<00:22:03.305>I <00:22:03.538>mean, <00:22:03.771>it's, <00:22:04.005>I <00:22:04.238>I <00:22:04.471>wouldn't <00:22:04.705>say,

561
00:22:05.425 --> 00:22:06.785
<00:22:05.425>I <00:22:05.599>wouldn't <00:22:05.774>say <00:22:05.949>just <00:22:06.124>go <00:22:06.299>and <00:22:06.474>ask <00:22:06.649>somebody.

562
00:22:06.825 --> 00:22:08.145
<00:22:06.825>I <00:22:06.994>think, <00:22:07.164>I <00:22:07.334>think <00:22:07.503>it's <00:22:07.673>all <00:22:07.843>about <00:22:08.013>the

563
00:22:08.145 --> 00:22:09.505
<00:22:08.145>execution <00:22:08.389>and <00:22:08.634>the <00:22:08.879>planning <00:22:09.124>of <00:22:09.369>it.

564
00:22:09.505 --> 00:22:11.225
<00:22:09.505>Because <00:22:09.738>one <00:22:09.971>thing <00:22:10.205>that's <00:22:10.438>a <00:22:10.671>shame <00:22:10.905>is

565
00:22:11.225 --> 00:22:13.945
<00:22:11.225>that <00:22:11.380>over <00:22:11.536>the <00:22:11.691>years <00:22:11.847>we've <00:22:12.002>seen <00:22:12.158>the, <00:22:12.313>the <00:22:12.469>Devra <00:22:12.625>departments,

566
00:22:13.945 --> 00:22:16.145
<00:22:13.945>if <00:22:14.085>you <00:22:14.225>like, <00:22:14.365>uh, <00:22:14.504>come <00:22:14.645>and <00:22:14.784>go, <00:22:14.925>you <00:22:15.064>know, <00:22:15.205>there's <00:22:15.345>companies

567
00:22:16.145 --> 00:22:17.985
<00:22:16.145>that <00:22:16.378>will <00:22:16.611>hire <00:22:16.845>a <00:22:17.078>number <00:22:17.311>of, <00:22:17.545>uh,

568
00:22:17.985 --> 00:22:20.425
<00:22:17.985>developer <00:22:18.140>advocates <00:22:18.296>very <00:22:18.451>quickly, <00:22:18.607>and <00:22:18.762>then <00:22:18.918>they <00:22:19.073>let <00:22:19.229>them <00:22:19.385>go

569
00:22:20.425 --> 00:22:22.305
<00:22:20.425>because <00:22:20.600>they're <00:22:20.774>not <00:22:20.950>sure <00:22:21.125>what <00:22:21.300>to <00:22:21.475>do <00:22:21.649>with <00:22:21.825>them.

570
00:22:22.365 --> 00:22:25.305
<00:22:22.365>And <00:22:22.505>what <00:22:22.645>I <00:22:22.785>mean <00:22:22.925>by <00:22:23.065>that <00:22:23.205>is <00:22:23.345>the <00:22:23.485>measurement, <00:22:23.625>you <00:22:23.765>know,

571
00:22:25.305 --> 00:22:28.305
<00:22:25.305>the <00:22:25.460>KPIs, <00:22:25.616>it's <00:22:25.771>the, <00:22:25.927>it's <00:22:26.082>the <00:22:26.238>looking <00:22:26.393>at <00:22:26.549>what <00:22:26.705>the,

572
00:22:28.325 --> 00:22:29.905
<00:22:28.325>the <00:22:28.558>value <00:22:28.791>is <00:22:29.025>that <00:22:29.258>that <00:22:29.491>person <00:22:29.725>brings.

573
00:22:30.095 --> 00:22:32.465
<00:22:30.095>It's <00:22:30.375>notoriously <00:22:30.655>difficult <00:22:30.935>with <00:22:31.215>Derel. <00:22:31.495>Mm-hmm.

574
00:22:32.545 --> 00:22:35.385
<00:22:32.545>Because <00:22:32.700>mm-hmm. <00:22:32.856>The, <00:22:33.011>some <00:22:33.167>of <00:22:33.322>these <00:22:33.478>things <00:22:33.633>are <00:22:33.789>so <00:22:33.945>implicit,

575
00:22:35.645 --> 00:22:38.345
<00:22:35.645>you <00:22:35.878>know, <00:22:36.111>um, <00:22:36.345>brand <00:22:36.578>awareness, <00:22:36.811>brand <00:22:37.045>exposure,

576
00:22:38.975 --> 00:22:40.945
<00:22:38.975>it's <00:22:39.254>things <00:22:39.534>like, <00:22:39.814>uh, <00:22:40.094>the <00:22:40.375>impression

577
00:22:40.945 --> 00:22:42.265
<00:22:40.945>that <00:22:41.182>people <00:22:41.420>have <00:22:41.657>of <00:22:41.895>your <00:22:42.133>brand.

578
00:22:42.495 --> 00:22:45.585
<00:22:42.495>It's <00:22:42.669>just <00:22:42.844>solving <00:22:43.020>issues <00:22:43.195>sometimes <00:22:43.370>and <00:22:43.544>speaking <00:22:43.719>to <00:22:43.895>people

579
00:22:45.585 --> 00:22:47.985
<00:22:45.585>and <00:22:45.740>saying, <00:22:45.896>this <00:22:46.051>is, <00:22:46.207>this <00:22:46.362>is <00:22:46.518>what, <00:22:46.673>this <00:22:46.829>is <00:22:46.985>how

580
00:22:47.985 --> 00:22:49.945
<00:22:47.985>to <00:22:48.125>solve <00:22:48.264>this <00:22:48.405>issue, <00:22:48.544>or <00:22:48.685>this <00:22:48.824>is <00:22:48.965>the <00:22:49.104>problem <00:22:49.245>that, <00:22:49.385>um,

581
00:22:50.175 --> 00:22:51.745
<00:22:50.175>it's <00:22:50.315>the <00:22:50.455>problem <00:22:50.595>you're <00:22:50.735>having <00:22:50.875>in <00:22:51.014>this <00:22:51.155>how <00:22:51.294>to <00:22:51.435>solve <00:22:51.575>it,

582
00:22:51.815 --> 00:22:52.905
<00:22:51.815>that <00:22:52.305>translation <00:22:52.796>part.

583
00:22:53.135 --> 00:22:54.945
<00:22:53.135>Yeah. <00:22:53.275>So <00:22:53.415>I <00:22:53.555>think, <00:22:53.695>I <00:22:53.835>think <00:22:53.975>it's <00:22:54.115>a <00:22:54.254>lot <00:22:54.395>more <00:22:54.535>than,

584
00:22:54.945 --> 00:22:56.145
<00:22:54.945>than <00:22:55.215>just <00:22:55.485>going <00:22:55.754>out <00:22:56.025>there

585
00:22:56.205 --> 00:22:58.505
<00:22:56.205>and <00:22:56.438>just <00:22:56.671>speaking <00:22:56.905>to <00:22:57.138>people <00:22:57.371>randomly, <00:22:57.605>right?

586
00:22:58.815 --> 00:23:00.305
<00:22:58.815>It's <00:22:59.262>that <00:22:59.709>you <00:23:00.156>first

587
00:23:00.305 --> 00:23:01.825
<00:23:00.305>of <00:23:00.476>all <00:23:00.647>probably <00:23:00.818>need <00:23:00.989>to <00:23:01.160>speak <00:23:01.331>to <00:23:01.502>your <00:23:01.673>team.

588
00:23:01.925 --> 00:23:03.185
<00:23:01.925>You <00:23:02.114>need <00:23:02.303>to <00:23:02.492>speak <00:23:02.681>to <00:23:02.870>your <00:23:03.059>users.

589
00:23:03.615 --> 00:23:05.145
<00:23:03.615>Your <00:23:03.890>team <00:23:04.165>might <00:23:04.441>be <00:23:04.716>your <00:23:04.992>users.

590
00:23:05.525 --> 00:23:08.345
<00:23:05.525>If <00:23:05.700>you're <00:23:05.875>offering <00:23:06.050>a, <00:23:06.225>a <00:23:06.400>tech <00:23:06.575>tool <00:23:06.750>or <00:23:06.925>service

591
00:23:08.485 --> 00:23:10.425
<00:23:08.485>or <00:23:08.764>product, <00:23:09.044>the <00:23:09.324>people <00:23:09.604>that <00:23:09.885>work

592
00:23:10.425 --> 00:23:11.825
<00:23:10.425>for <00:23:10.635>you <00:23:10.845>might <00:23:11.055>be <00:23:11.265>also <00:23:11.475>using <00:23:11.685>it.

593
00:23:12.165 --> 00:23:14.625
<00:23:12.165>And <00:23:12.320>they'll <00:23:12.476>know, <00:23:12.631>they'll, <00:23:12.787>they'll <00:23:12.942>know <00:23:13.098>better <00:23:13.253>than <00:23:13.409>a <00:23:13.565>lot

594
00:23:14.945 --> 00:23:18.225
<00:23:14.945>of <00:23:15.100>people, <00:23:15.256>um, <00:23:15.411>what <00:23:15.567>the <00:23:15.722>exciting <00:23:15.878>features <00:23:16.033>are <00:23:16.189>about <00:23:16.345>it.

595
00:23:18.325 --> 00:23:20.145
<00:23:18.325>But <00:23:18.525>the <00:23:18.725>people <00:23:18.925>that <00:23:19.125>are <00:23:19.325>really <00:23:19.525>gonna <00:23:19.725>know

596
00:23:20.175 --> 00:23:21.825
<00:23:20.175>what <00:23:20.408>makes <00:23:20.641>your <00:23:20.875>software, <00:23:21.108>makes <00:23:21.341>your <00:23:21.575>tool,

597
00:23:21.825 --> 00:23:23.745
<00:23:21.825>makes <00:23:22.058>your <00:23:22.291>company <00:23:22.525>exciting, <00:23:22.758>are <00:23:22.991>the <00:23:23.225>people

598
00:23:23.745 --> 00:23:27.145
<00:23:23.745>that <00:23:23.885>use <00:23:24.024>those <00:23:24.165>things, <00:23:24.304>um, <00:23:24.445>speak <00:23:24.584>to <00:23:24.725>them, <00:23:24.864>first <00:23:25.004>of <00:23:25.145>all,

599
00:23:27.145 --> 00:23:30.145
<00:23:27.145>because <00:23:27.300>Devereux <00:23:27.456>is <00:23:27.611>trying <00:23:27.767>to <00:23:27.922>fulfill <00:23:28.078>a <00:23:28.233>need <00:23:28.389>for <00:23:28.545>them,

600
00:23:30.605 --> 00:23:31.945
<00:23:30.605>and <00:23:30.806>it's <00:23:31.007>trying <00:23:31.208>to <00:23:31.408>fulfill <00:23:31.610>a <00:23:31.811>need

601
00:23:31.965 --> 00:23:34.985
<00:23:31.965>for <00:23:32.120>the <00:23:32.276>company <00:23:32.431>knowing <00:23:32.587>which <00:23:32.742>direction <00:23:32.898>to <00:23:33.053>take <00:23:33.209>the <00:23:33.365>company,

602
00:23:34.985 --> 00:23:36.505
<00:23:34.985>because <00:23:35.180>they <00:23:35.375>need <00:23:35.571>to <00:23:35.766>know <00:23:35.962>what's <00:23:36.157>gonna <00:23:36.353>go

603
00:23:36.505 --> 00:23:37.665
<00:23:36.505>down <00:23:36.853>well <00:23:37.201>with <00:23:37.549>developers.

604
00:23:38.045 --> 00:23:39.745
<00:23:38.045>So <00:23:38.245>it's <00:23:38.445>about <00:23:38.645>speaking <00:23:38.845>to <00:23:39.045>both <00:23:39.245>of <00:23:39.445>those

605
00:23:39.965 --> 00:23:42.945
<00:23:39.965>and <00:23:40.120>thinking, <00:23:40.276>well, <00:23:40.431>what's <00:23:40.587>actually <00:23:40.742>gonna <00:23:40.898>help <00:23:41.053>us <00:23:41.209>get <00:23:41.365>there?

606
00:23:43.445 --> 00:23:45.610
<00:23:43.445>Are <00:23:43.572>you <00:23:43.699>a <00:23:43.826>company <00:23:43.954>that <00:23:44.081>needs <00:23:44.208>a <00:23:44.335>lot <00:23:44.463>of <00:23:44.590>of <00:23:44.717>video <00:23:44.845>content?

607
00:23:46.025 --> 00:23:48.045
<00:23:46.025>Are <00:23:46.200>you <00:23:46.375>somebody <00:23:46.550>who <00:23:46.725>needs <00:23:46.900>a <00:23:47.075>lot <00:23:47.250>of <00:23:47.425>documentation?

608
00:23:48.305 --> 00:23:50.285
<00:23:48.305>Is <00:23:48.505>that <00:23:48.705>something <00:23:48.905>where <00:23:49.105>you <00:23:49.305>think, <00:23:49.505>yeah, <00:23:49.705>the,

609
00:23:50.305 --> 00:23:52.765
<00:23:50.305>the <00:23:50.460>problems <00:23:50.616>we're <00:23:50.771>having <00:23:50.927>and <00:23:51.082>developers <00:23:51.238>are <00:23:51.393>telling <00:23:51.549>us <00:23:51.705>is

610
00:23:52.955 --> 00:23:55.845
<00:23:52.955>when <00:23:53.155>they <00:23:53.355>encounter <00:23:53.554>issues, <00:23:53.754>they <00:23:53.955>can't <00:23:54.155>solve <00:23:54.355>them.

611
00:23:55.845 --> 00:23:57.965
<00:23:55.845>Even <00:23:56.125>reading <00:23:56.405>our <00:23:56.685>official <00:23:56.965>documentation, <00:23:57.245>well,

612
00:23:57.965 --> 00:23:59.045
<00:23:57.965>that <00:23:58.207>needs <00:23:58.451>some, <00:23:58.694>some <00:23:58.937>time.

613
00:23:59.045 --> 00:24:01.925
<00:23:59.045>Then <00:23:59.200>is <00:23:59.356>it <00:23:59.511>that <00:23:59.667>you <00:23:59.822>need <00:23:59.978>just <00:24:00.133>that <00:24:00.289>brand <00:24:00.445>awareness,

614
00:24:01.925 --> 00:24:04.645
<00:24:01.925>that <00:24:02.205>brand <00:24:02.485>exposure, <00:24:02.764>really <00:24:03.044>thinking <00:24:03.325>about

615
00:24:04.645 --> 00:24:06.125
<00:24:04.645>what <00:24:04.978>the <00:24:05.311>company <00:24:05.644>actually <00:24:05.977>needs?

616
00:24:06.555 --> 00:24:07.605
<00:24:06.555>Then <00:24:06.870>you <00:24:07.185>can <00:24:07.500>understand

617
00:24:07.705 --> 00:24:09.325
<00:24:07.705>how <00:24:07.879>the <00:24:08.054>dev <00:24:08.230>rails <00:24:08.405>can <00:24:08.580>help <00:24:08.754>you <00:24:08.929>get <00:24:09.105>there,

618
00:24:09.325 --> 00:24:11.205
<00:24:09.325>or <00:24:09.500>the <00:24:09.675>developer <00:24:09.850>advocates <00:24:10.025>can <00:24:10.200>help <00:24:10.375>you <00:24:10.550>get <00:24:10.725>there.

619
00:24:11.705 --> 00:24:14.005
<00:24:11.705>And <00:24:11.879>finally <00:24:12.054>on <00:24:12.230>that <00:24:12.405>piece, <00:24:12.580>you <00:24:12.754>say, <00:24:12.929>where <00:24:13.105>it's,

620
00:24:14.005 --> 00:24:16.085
<00:24:14.005>should <00:24:14.205>we <00:24:14.405>just <00:24:14.605>go <00:24:14.805>and <00:24:15.005>find, <00:24:15.205>should <00:24:15.405>they,

621
00:24:16.085 --> 00:24:17.125
<00:24:16.085>should <00:24:16.319>the <00:24:16.553>company <00:24:16.787>just <00:24:17.021>go

622
00:24:17.125 --> 00:24:20.765
<00:24:17.125>and <00:24:17.252>find <00:24:17.379>somebody <00:24:17.506>who's <00:24:17.634>a, <00:24:17.761>a, <00:24:17.888>a <00:24:18.015>loud <00:24:18.143>voice <00:24:18.270>in <00:24:18.397>the <00:24:18.525>community?

623
00:24:20.765 --> 00:24:25.005
<00:24:20.765>And <00:24:20.892>I <00:24:21.019>would <00:24:21.146>say <00:24:21.274>no, <00:24:21.401>because <00:24:21.528>it <00:24:21.655>sounds <00:24:21.783>terrible <00:24:21.910>to <00:24:22.037>say <00:24:22.165>it,

624
00:24:25.025 --> 00:24:26.765
<00:24:25.025>but <00:24:25.258>you <00:24:25.491>know, <00:24:25.725>there's, <00:24:25.958>there's, <00:24:26.191>there's <00:24:26.425>good

625
00:24:26.765 --> 00:24:28.365
<00:24:26.765>and <00:24:26.940>bad <00:24:27.115>in <00:24:27.290>everything, <00:24:27.465>and <00:24:27.640>I <00:24:27.815>think <00:24:27.990>there's <00:24:28.165>people

626
00:24:28.365 --> 00:24:29.485
<00:24:28.365>that <00:24:28.533>will <00:24:28.701>make <00:24:28.869>a <00:24:29.037>lot <00:24:29.205>of <00:24:29.372>noise.

627
00:24:29.625 --> 00:24:31.525
<00:24:29.625>But <00:24:29.800>when <00:24:29.975>it <00:24:30.150>comes <00:24:30.325>down <00:24:30.500>to <00:24:30.675>doing <00:24:30.850>the <00:24:31.025>job,

628
00:24:31.905 --> 00:24:33.485
<00:24:31.905>can <00:24:32.105>they <00:24:32.305>put <00:24:32.504>all <00:24:32.705>of <00:24:32.905>those <00:24:33.105>things <00:24:33.305>together?

629
00:24:33.825 --> 00:24:36.085
<00:24:33.825>Can <00:24:34.058>they <00:24:34.291>create <00:24:34.525>content <00:24:34.758>across <00:24:34.991>different <00:24:35.225>mediums?

630
00:24:36.345 --> 00:24:37.685
<00:24:36.345>Can <00:24:36.517>they <00:24:36.689>go <00:24:36.861>and <00:24:37.034>speak <00:24:37.206>for <00:24:37.378>your <00:24:37.551>company?

631
00:24:37.995 --> 00:24:39.645
<00:24:37.995>Will <00:24:38.274>they <00:24:38.554>go <00:24:38.834>into <00:24:39.114>those <00:24:39.395>communities

632
00:24:39.645 --> 00:24:41.685
<00:24:39.645>and <00:24:39.845>be <00:24:40.045>a <00:24:40.245>confident <00:24:40.445>person <00:24:40.645>speaking <00:24:40.845>to <00:24:41.045>them

633
00:24:42.105 --> 00:24:43.525
<00:24:42.105>and <00:24:42.264>all <00:24:42.424>the <00:24:42.584>other <00:24:42.744>skills <00:24:42.903>that <00:24:43.063>come <00:24:43.223>with <00:24:43.383>it?

634
00:24:43.525 --> 00:24:44.645
<00:24:43.525>Will <00:24:43.693>they <00:24:43.861>go <00:24:44.029>on <00:24:44.197>stage <00:24:44.365>for <00:24:44.533>you?

635
00:24:44.675 --> 00:24:46.845
<00:24:44.675>Will <00:24:44.875>they <00:24:45.075>write <00:24:45.274>documentation? <00:24:45.475>Will <00:24:45.675>they <00:24:45.875>write <00:24:46.075>blogs?

636
00:24:47.185 --> 00:24:49.125
<00:24:47.185>And <00:24:47.418>so <00:24:47.651>finding <00:24:47.885>the <00:24:48.118>right <00:24:48.351>person's <00:24:48.585>important.

637
00:24:49.385 --> 00:24:51.245
<00:24:49.385>And <00:24:49.560>I <00:24:49.735>would <00:24:49.910>say <00:24:50.085>for <00:24:50.260>some <00:24:50.435>of <00:24:50.610>those <00:24:50.785>companies,

638
00:24:51.355 --> 00:24:54.245
<00:24:51.355>look <00:24:51.482>at <00:24:51.609>generalists, <00:24:51.736>and <00:24:51.864>I <00:24:51.991>am, <00:24:52.118>I <00:24:52.245>am <00:24:52.373>biased, <00:24:52.500>I <00:24:52.627>am <00:24:52.755>biased

639
00:24:54.245 --> 00:24:56.285
<00:24:54.245>with <00:24:54.524>this, <00:24:54.804>but <00:24:55.084>look <00:24:55.364>at <00:24:55.645>generalists

640
00:24:56.285 --> 00:24:58.925
<00:24:56.285>because <00:24:56.485>there's <00:24:56.685>so <00:24:56.885>much <00:24:57.085>in <00:24:57.285>so <00:24:57.485>many <00:24:57.685>industries,

641
00:24:59.005 --> 00:25:00.245
<00:24:59.005>there's <00:24:59.377>so <00:24:59.749>much <00:25:00.120>specialization.

642
00:25:00.305 --> 00:25:01.645
<00:25:00.305>And <00:25:00.546>deveau <00:25:00.787>is <00:25:01.028>an <00:25:01.269>odd <00:25:01.511>one

643
00:25:01.675 --> 00:25:04.885
<00:25:01.675>because <00:25:01.875>it <00:25:02.075>actually <00:25:02.274>favors <00:25:02.475>people <00:25:02.675>who <00:25:02.875>are <00:25:03.075>generalists.

644
00:25:05.025 --> 00:25:07.605
<00:25:05.025>And <00:25:05.180>that's <00:25:05.336>not <00:25:05.491>saying <00:25:05.647>someone <00:25:05.802>who's <00:25:05.958>bad <00:25:06.113>at, <00:25:06.269>at <00:25:06.425>programming,

645
00:25:07.765 --> 00:25:08.925
<00:25:07.765>although <00:25:07.973>I <00:25:08.182>probably <00:25:08.391>am <00:25:08.600>quite <00:25:08.809>bad,

646
00:25:09.145 --> 00:25:11.125
<00:25:09.145>but <00:25:09.300>it's <00:25:09.456>not <00:25:09.611>saying <00:25:09.767>that <00:25:09.922>just <00:25:10.078>somebody <00:25:10.233>who's <00:25:10.389>bad <00:25:10.545>at

647
00:25:11.125 --> 00:25:13.525
<00:25:11.125>programming <00:25:11.300>and <00:25:11.475>is <00:25:11.650>half <00:25:11.825>decent <00:25:12.000>at <00:25:12.175>going <00:25:12.350>on <00:25:12.525>stage,

648
00:25:13.525 --> 00:25:15.805
<00:25:13.525>they <00:25:13.680>don't <00:25:13.836>have <00:25:13.991>to <00:25:14.147>just <00:25:14.302>be <00:25:14.458>half <00:25:14.613>decent <00:25:14.769>at <00:25:14.925>everything.

649
00:25:15.805 --> 00:25:18.725
<00:25:15.805>They're <00:25:15.980>just <00:25:16.155>people <00:25:16.330>who've <00:25:16.505>got <00:25:16.680>a <00:25:16.855>number <00:25:17.030>of <00:25:17.205>specialisms

650
00:25:18.725 --> 00:25:20.045
<00:25:18.725>or <00:25:18.962>different <00:25:19.200>areas <00:25:19.437>that <00:25:19.675>they <00:25:19.913>can,

651
00:25:20.045 --> 00:25:21.965
<00:25:20.045>they <00:25:20.220>can <00:25:20.395>do <00:25:20.570>a <00:25:20.745>good <00:25:20.920>job <00:25:21.095>for <00:25:21.270>your <00:25:21.445>company.

652
00:25:22.065 --> 00:25:24.125
<00:25:22.065>And <00:25:22.265>that's <00:25:22.465>where <00:25:22.665>DeVeres, <00:25:22.865>I <00:25:23.065>think, <00:25:23.265>really <00:25:23.465>sit.

653
00:25:24.845 --> 00:25:28.785
<00:25:24.845>Mm-hmm. <00:25:25.020>So <00:25:25.195>yeah. <00:25:25.370>Uh, <00:25:25.545>could <00:25:25.720>that <00:25:25.895>end <00:25:26.070>up <00:25:26.245>in,

654
00:25:28.885 --> 00:25:31.145
<00:25:28.885>in <00:25:29.085>thought <00:25:29.285>leadership <00:25:29.485>for <00:25:29.685>some <00:25:29.885>industries <00:25:30.085>as <00:25:30.285>well?

655
00:25:31.145 --> 00:25:33.785
<00:25:31.145>Because <00:25:31.320>I <00:25:31.495>mean, <00:25:31.670>a <00:25:31.845>lot <00:25:32.020>of <00:25:32.195>companies <00:25:32.370>are <00:25:32.545>trying

656
00:25:33.785 --> 00:25:35.625
<00:25:33.785>to <00:25:34.065>get <00:25:34.345>this <00:25:34.625>kind <00:25:34.905>of <00:25:35.185>USP,

657
00:25:35.625 --> 00:25:36.945
<00:25:35.625>and <00:25:35.862>I <00:25:36.100>think <00:25:36.337>the <00:25:36.575>best <00:25:36.812>USB

658
00:25:36.945 --> 00:25:39.105
<00:25:36.945>that <00:25:37.145>you <00:25:37.345>probably <00:25:37.544>can <00:25:37.745>get <00:25:37.945>in <00:25:38.145>every <00:25:38.345>industry

659
00:25:39.165 --> 00:25:40.225
<00:25:39.165>is <00:25:39.403>being <00:25:39.641>a <00:25:39.880>thought <00:25:40.119>leader.

660
00:25:40.655 --> 00:25:44.025
<00:25:40.655>Because <00:25:40.830>if <00:25:41.004>you're <00:25:41.180>ending <00:25:41.355>up <00:25:41.530>as <00:25:41.705>a <00:25:41.879>thought <00:25:42.055>leader,

661
00:25:44.305 --> 00:25:45.745
<00:25:44.305>I <00:25:44.564>think <00:25:44.823>you <00:25:45.082>are <00:25:45.341>definitely <00:25:45.601>there

662
00:25:45.745 --> 00:25:48.905
<00:25:45.745>because <00:25:45.978>then <00:25:46.211>everybody's <00:25:46.445>starting <00:25:46.678>listening <00:25:46.911>to <00:25:47.145>you.

663
00:25:48.905 --> 00:25:50.625
<00:25:48.905>Because <00:25:49.371>I <00:25:49.838>mean, <00:25:50.305>that's

664
00:25:50.625 --> 00:25:52.785
<00:25:50.625>where <00:25:50.825>the <00:25:51.025>knowledge <00:25:51.225>is <00:25:51.425>then, <00:25:51.625>uh, <00:25:51.825>it's <00:25:52.025>true.

665
00:25:53.565 --> 00:25:55.745
<00:25:53.565>If <00:25:53.705>you, <00:25:53.845>if <00:25:53.985>you <00:25:54.125>make <00:25:54.265>it <00:25:54.405>right, <00:25:54.545>could <00:25:54.685>you <00:25:54.825>end <00:25:54.965>up

666
00:25:55.745 --> 00:25:57.825
<00:25:55.745>with <00:25:55.978>thought <00:25:56.211>leadership <00:25:56.445>as <00:25:56.678>well <00:25:56.911>as <00:25:57.145>industry?

667
00:25:58.725 --> 00:26:01.545
<00:25:58.725>Um, <00:25:58.865>yeah. <00:25:59.004>I <00:25:59.145>think <00:25:59.284>that <00:25:59.425>there's <00:25:59.564>a <00:25:59.705>thin <00:25:59.844>line <00:25:59.985>though, <00:26:00.125>between

668
00:26:01.545 --> 00:26:03.825
<00:26:01.545>that <00:26:01.825>thought <00:26:02.105>leadership <00:26:02.385>and <00:26:02.665>influencer <00:26:02.945>world.

669
00:26:03.965 --> 00:26:05.825
<00:26:03.965>And <00:26:04.120>I <00:26:04.276>think <00:26:04.431>that <00:26:04.587>when, <00:26:04.742>when <00:26:04.898>you're <00:26:05.053>looking <00:26:05.209>at <00:26:05.365>a,

670
00:26:06.425 --> 00:26:09.825
<00:26:06.425>a <00:26:06.600>developer, <00:26:06.774>um, <00:26:06.950>advocate, <00:26:07.125>there's <00:26:07.300>some <00:26:07.475>degree, <00:26:07.649>it's <00:26:07.825>the,

671
00:26:09.845 --> 00:26:11.945
<00:26:09.845>the, <00:26:10.045>the, <00:26:10.245>the <00:26:10.445>how <00:26:10.645>corporate <00:26:10.845>are <00:26:11.045>you, <00:26:11.245>right?

672
00:26:12.045 --> 00:26:14.305
<00:26:12.045>In <00:26:12.185>the, <00:26:12.325>you <00:26:12.465>know, <00:26:12.605>if <00:26:12.745>you're <00:26:12.885>somebody <00:26:13.025>who's <00:26:13.165>going <00:26:13.305>to, <00:26:13.445>uh,

673
00:26:14.305 --> 00:26:17.865
<00:26:14.305>market <00:26:14.460>with <00:26:14.616>a <00:26:14.771>lot <00:26:14.927>of <00:26:15.082>mean <00:26:15.238>style <00:26:15.393>marketing <00:26:15.549>to <00:26:15.705>developers,

674
00:26:17.865 --> 00:26:20.145
<00:26:17.865>then <00:26:18.098>you <00:26:18.331>probably <00:26:18.565>could <00:26:18.798>work <00:26:19.031>more <00:26:19.265>alongside

675
00:26:20.145 --> 00:26:21.265
<00:26:20.145>the <00:26:20.649>influencer <00:26:21.153>world.

676
00:26:21.265 --> 00:26:23.505
<00:26:21.265>Whereas <00:26:21.465>if <00:26:21.665>you <00:26:21.865>are <00:26:22.065>more <00:26:22.265>so <00:26:22.465>a, <00:26:22.665>uh,

677
00:26:23.655 --> 00:26:25.705
<00:26:23.655>more <00:26:23.888>corporate <00:26:24.121>organization <00:26:24.355>than <00:26:24.588>perhaps, <00:26:24.821>you <00:26:25.055>know,

678
00:26:25.765 --> 00:26:27.985
<00:26:25.765>the <00:26:25.965>more <00:26:26.165>the, <00:26:26.365>the, <00:26:26.565>the <00:26:26.765>thought <00:26:26.965>leader, <00:26:27.165>um,

679
00:26:28.795 --> 00:26:30.425
<00:26:28.795>route <00:26:28.970>I <00:26:29.145>would <00:26:29.320>say <00:26:29.495>is <00:26:29.670>best <00:26:29.845>to <00:26:30.020>go <00:26:30.195>down.

680
00:26:30.425 --> 00:26:31.465
<00:26:30.425>Yeah. <00:26:31.360>Mm-hmm.

681
00:26:32.445 --> 00:26:35.785
<00:26:32.445>Uh, <00:26:32.645>what, <00:26:32.845>what <00:26:33.044>do <00:26:33.245>you <00:26:33.445>think <00:26:33.645>is <00:26:33.845>the,

682
00:26:35.925 --> 00:26:38.225
<00:26:35.925>the <00:26:36.158>biggest <00:26:36.391>challenge <00:26:36.625>in <00:26:36.858>the <00:26:37.091>world <00:26:37.325>today,

683
00:26:38.245 --> 00:26:41.465
<00:26:38.245>if <00:26:38.361>you <00:26:38.478>look <00:26:38.594>on <00:26:38.711>the <00:26:38.828>world <00:26:38.945>going <00:26:39.061>on <00:26:39.178>when <00:26:39.294>AI <00:26:39.411>is, <00:26:39.528>is, <00:26:39.645>is,

684
00:26:41.565 --> 00:26:42.585
<00:26:41.565>is <00:26:41.794>all <00:26:42.024>over <00:26:42.253>the <00:26:42.483>place.

685
00:26:43.005 --> 00:26:46.205
<00:26:43.005>I <00:26:43.180>mean, <00:26:43.355>it's <00:26:43.530>the <00:26:43.705>discussion <00:26:43.880>that <00:26:44.055>AI <00:26:44.230>will <00:26:44.405>replace

686
00:26:46.805 --> 00:26:48.285
<00:26:46.805>software <00:26:47.249>developer <00:26:47.693>jobs <00:26:48.137>anyhow.

687
00:26:48.485 --> 00:26:51.205
<00:26:48.485>I <00:26:48.640>mean, <00:26:48.796>it's <00:26:48.951>a <00:26:49.107>big, <00:26:49.262>big <00:26:49.418>topic, <00:26:49.573>big <00:26:49.729>discussion <00:26:49.885>topic.

688
00:26:51.345 --> 00:26:52.805
<00:26:51.345>Uh, <00:26:51.607>I <00:26:51.870>think <00:26:52.133>there's <00:26:52.396>no <00:26:52.659>conference

689
00:26:52.805 --> 00:26:54.645
<00:26:52.805>where <00:26:53.038>this <00:26:53.271>topic <00:26:53.505>is <00:26:53.738>not <00:26:53.971>discussed <00:26:54.205>heavily.

690
00:26:55.315 --> 00:26:58.405
<00:26:55.315>What <00:26:55.470>do <00:26:55.626>you <00:26:55.781>think <00:26:55.937>today <00:26:56.092>is <00:26:56.248>the <00:26:56.403>biggest, <00:26:56.559>uh, <00:26:56.715>in,

691
00:26:58.425 --> 00:26:59.965
<00:26:58.425>in <00:26:58.702>the <00:26:58.979>aspect <00:26:59.256>of <00:26:59.533>develop <00:26:59.811>ations?

692
00:26:59.965 --> 00:27:01.565
<00:26:59.965>What <00:27:00.245>is <00:27:00.524>the <00:27:00.804>biggest <00:27:01.084>challenge <00:27:01.365>today

693
00:27:02.175 --> 00:27:03.425
<00:27:02.175>With <00:27:02.399>things <00:27:02.625>like <00:27:02.850>ai, <00:27:03.075>you <00:27:03.300>know,

694
00:27:03.425 --> 00:27:06.025
<00:27:03.425>when <00:27:03.565>we're <00:27:03.705>talking <00:27:03.845>about <00:27:03.985>in <00:27:04.125>the <00:27:04.264>future, <00:27:04.405>AI <00:27:04.544>perhaps <00:27:04.685>re <00:27:04.825>uh,

695
00:27:06.025 --> 00:27:08.425
<00:27:06.025>replacing <00:27:06.180>developers, <00:27:06.336>you <00:27:06.491>could <00:27:06.647>on <00:27:06.802>the <00:27:06.958>one <00:27:07.113>hand <00:27:07.269>say, <00:27:07.425>well,

696
00:27:08.425 --> 00:27:11.185
<00:27:08.425>is <00:27:08.565>there <00:27:08.705>any <00:27:08.845>need <00:27:08.985>for <00:27:09.125>developer <00:27:09.264>relations <00:27:09.405>then <00:27:09.544>if <00:27:09.685>it's <00:27:09.825>just

697
00:27:11.185 --> 00:27:14.105
<00:27:11.185>going <00:27:11.325>to <00:27:11.465>be <00:27:11.605>ai <00:27:11.745>that's, <00:27:11.885>that's, <00:27:12.024>that's, <00:27:12.165>um, <00:27:12.304>writing <00:27:12.445>the <00:27:12.585>code.

698
00:27:14.425 --> 00:27:16.305
<00:27:14.425>I <00:27:14.774>think <00:27:15.125>that <00:27:15.475>realistically <00:27:15.825>there's,

699
00:27:16.305 --> 00:27:18.345
<00:27:16.305>there <00:27:16.585>the <00:27:16.865>tide <00:27:17.145>is <00:27:17.425>changing <00:27:17.705>slightly

700
00:27:18.365 --> 00:27:20.905
<00:27:18.365>and <00:27:18.520>that <00:27:18.676>people <00:27:18.831>are <00:27:18.987>starting <00:27:19.142>to <00:27:19.298>realize <00:27:19.453>it'll <00:27:19.609>likely <00:27:19.765>be

701
00:27:20.905 --> 00:27:23.305
<00:27:20.905>that <00:27:21.138>the, <00:27:21.371>the <00:27:21.605>role <00:27:21.838>of <00:27:22.071>developers <00:27:22.305>changes,

702
00:27:23.565 --> 00:27:26.145
<00:27:23.565>and <00:27:23.705>it <00:27:23.845>does <00:27:23.985>become <00:27:24.125>a <00:27:24.265>little <00:27:24.405>bit <00:27:24.545>more <00:27:24.685>about <00:27:24.825>code <00:27:24.965>reviewing

703
00:27:26.205 --> 00:27:28.025
<00:27:26.205>and <00:27:26.485>perhaps <00:27:26.764>less <00:27:27.044>writing <00:27:27.324>the <00:27:27.605>code.

704
00:27:28.325 --> 00:27:31.625
<00:27:28.325>Now, <00:27:28.480>for <00:27:28.636>me, <00:27:28.791>that <00:27:28.947>doesn't <00:27:29.102>really <00:27:29.258>change <00:27:29.413>anything <00:27:29.569>in <00:27:29.725>the

705
00:27:31.625 --> 00:27:33.465
<00:27:31.625>sense <00:27:31.858>that <00:27:32.091>the <00:27:32.325>approach <00:27:32.558>that <00:27:32.791>you're <00:27:33.025>taking,

706
00:27:33.485 --> 00:27:35.545
<00:27:33.485>how <00:27:33.659>you're <00:27:33.834>getting <00:27:34.010>there, <00:27:34.185>writing <00:27:34.360>the <00:27:34.534>code <00:27:34.709>is <00:27:34.885>changing.

707
00:27:35.605 --> 00:27:37.665
<00:27:35.605>You're <00:27:35.838>now <00:27:36.071>using <00:27:36.305>AI <00:27:36.538>to <00:27:36.771>get <00:27:37.005>there,

708
00:27:37.845 --> 00:27:40.185
<00:27:37.845>but <00:27:38.078>the <00:27:38.311>outcome <00:27:38.545>is <00:27:38.778>still <00:27:39.011>that <00:27:39.245>somebody

709
00:27:40.205 --> 00:27:41.945
<00:27:40.205>who <00:27:40.485>does <00:27:40.764>have <00:27:41.044>some <00:27:41.324>technical <00:27:41.605>knowledge,

710
00:27:41.965 --> 00:27:44.465
<00:27:41.965>and <00:27:42.139>it's <00:27:42.314>not <00:27:42.490>going <00:27:42.665>to <00:27:42.840>be <00:27:43.014>that <00:27:43.189>just <00:27:43.365>anybody

711
00:27:44.495 --> 00:27:46.065
<00:27:44.495>with <00:27:44.844>no <00:27:45.195>technical <00:27:45.544>knowledge <00:27:45.895>can,

712
00:27:46.205 --> 00:27:48.105
<00:27:46.205>can <00:27:46.332>now <00:27:46.459>be <00:27:46.586>a <00:27:46.714>developer, <00:27:46.841>or <00:27:46.968>we <00:27:47.095>don't <00:27:47.223>need <00:27:47.350>them <00:27:47.477>at <00:27:47.605>all.

713
00:27:48.105 --> 00:27:49.105
<00:27:48.105>We <00:27:48.285>can <00:27:48.465>just <00:27:48.645>rely <00:27:48.825>on <00:27:49.005>ai.

714
00:27:49.185 --> 00:27:52.145
<00:27:49.185>I <00:27:49.325>think <00:27:49.465>there's <00:27:49.605>going <00:27:49.745>to <00:27:49.885>be <00:27:50.024>this <00:27:50.165>subtle <00:27:50.304>balance <00:27:50.445>between <00:27:50.585>all

715
00:27:52.145 --> 00:27:53.545
<00:27:52.145>of <00:27:52.325>it <00:27:52.505>where <00:27:52.685>the <00:27:52.865>role <00:27:53.045>of <00:27:53.225>development <00:27:53.405>changes.

716
00:27:54.125 --> 00:27:57.505
<00:27:54.125>Now <00:27:54.280>that <00:27:54.436>does <00:27:54.591>present <00:27:54.747>some <00:27:54.902>kind <00:27:55.058>of <00:27:55.213>challenges <00:27:55.369>for <00:27:55.525>Devra,

717
00:27:57.505 --> 00:27:59.985
<00:27:57.505>because <00:27:57.632>it <00:27:57.759>means <00:27:57.886>you <00:27:58.014>have <00:27:58.141>to <00:27:58.268>then <00:27:58.395>adapt <00:27:58.523>to <00:27:58.650>what <00:27:58.777>that <00:27:58.905>role

718
00:27:59.985 --> 00:28:02.785
<00:27:59.985>of <00:28:00.140>being <00:28:00.296>a <00:28:00.451>developer <00:28:00.607>is <00:28:00.762>and <00:28:00.918>trying <00:28:01.073>to <00:28:01.229>understand <00:28:01.385>it.

719
00:28:03.285 --> 00:28:06.945
<00:28:03.285>And <00:28:03.440>I <00:28:03.596>think <00:28:03.751>that <00:28:03.907>the, <00:28:04.062>the <00:28:04.218>opportunity <00:28:04.373>though <00:28:04.529>is <00:28:04.685>that

720
00:28:06.945 --> 00:28:08.625
<00:28:06.945>for <00:28:07.145>people <00:28:07.345>that <00:28:07.544>are <00:28:07.745>developers <00:28:07.945>who <00:28:08.145>are <00:28:08.345>looking

721
00:28:08.645 --> 00:28:09.785
<00:28:08.645>to <00:28:09.158>extend <00:28:09.671>sideways

722
00:28:09.925 --> 00:28:11.265
<00:28:09.925>and <00:28:10.126>say, <00:28:10.327>could <00:28:10.528>I <00:28:10.729>do <00:28:10.930>something <00:28:11.131>else

723
00:28:11.685 --> 00:28:14.305
<00:28:11.685>that's <00:28:11.965>maybe <00:28:12.245>not <00:28:12.524>strictly <00:28:12.804>full-time <00:28:13.085>development,

724
00:28:14.615 --> 00:28:16.745
<00:28:14.615>developer <00:28:14.848>relations <00:28:15.081>actually <00:28:15.315>is <00:28:15.548>a <00:28:15.781>great <00:28:16.015>route.

725
00:28:16.745 --> 00:28:20.705
<00:28:16.745>They <00:28:16.872>can <00:28:16.999>go <00:28:17.126>down <00:28:17.254>because <00:28:17.381>as, <00:28:17.508>as <00:28:17.635>we <00:28:17.763>move <00:28:17.890>forward, <00:28:18.017>I <00:28:18.145>think

726
00:28:20.705 --> 00:28:22.945
<00:28:20.705>that <00:28:20.845>we'll <00:28:20.985>have <00:28:21.125>so <00:28:21.264>much <00:28:21.405>of <00:28:21.544>AI <00:28:21.685>maybe <00:28:21.824>doing <00:28:21.965>the <00:28:22.105>coding

727
00:28:22.945 --> 00:28:26.185
<00:28:22.945>that <00:28:23.120>then <00:28:23.294>the <00:28:23.470>community, <00:28:23.645>the <00:28:23.820>human <00:28:23.995>element <00:28:24.169>is <00:28:24.345>important

728
00:28:26.185 --> 00:28:28.225
<00:28:26.185>because <00:28:26.465>we <00:28:26.745>will <00:28:27.024>still <00:28:27.304>need, <00:28:27.585>uh,

729
00:28:28.225 --> 00:28:31.185
<00:28:28.225>and <00:28:28.352>we'll <00:28:28.479>have <00:28:28.606>maybe <00:28:28.734>more <00:28:28.861>time <00:28:28.988>for <00:28:29.115>those, <00:28:29.243>those <00:28:29.370>two <00:28:29.497>to <00:28:29.625>that,

730
00:28:31.185 --> 00:28:32.945
<00:28:31.185>you <00:28:31.360>know, <00:28:31.534>that <00:28:31.710>community <00:28:31.885>to, <00:28:32.060>to <00:28:32.235>sort <00:28:32.409>of, <00:28:32.585>um,

731
00:28:32.945 --> 00:28:33.985
<00:28:32.945>come <00:28:33.256>into <00:28:33.569>the <00:28:33.880>foreground.

732
00:28:34.125 --> 00:28:36.865
<00:28:34.125>So, <00:28:34.300>um, <00:28:34.475>I <00:28:34.650>think <00:28:34.825>there's <00:28:35.000>an <00:28:35.175>opportunity <00:28:35.350>more <00:28:35.525>than,

733
00:28:36.865 --> 00:28:38.825
<00:28:36.865>than <00:28:37.098>challenges <00:28:37.331>with <00:28:37.565>dre, <00:28:37.798>if <00:28:38.031>I'm <00:28:38.265>honest.

734
00:28:39.405 --> 00:28:40.465
<00:28:39.405>Sounds, <00:28:39.882>sounds <00:28:40.359>great.

735
00:28:41.205 --> 00:28:44.305
<00:28:41.205>Uh, <00:28:41.321>I <00:28:41.438>want <00:28:41.554>to <00:28:41.671>come <00:28:41.788>back <00:28:41.905>as <00:28:42.021>the <00:28:42.138>time <00:28:42.254>is <00:28:42.371>passing <00:28:42.488>by <00:28:42.605>quickly.

736
00:28:44.565 --> 00:28:47.825
<00:28:44.565>Uh, <00:28:44.705>and <00:28:44.845>I <00:28:44.985>want <00:28:45.125>to <00:28:45.265>just <00:28:45.405>as <00:28:45.545>you <00:28:45.685>are, <00:28:45.825>I <00:28:45.965>mean,

737
00:28:47.825 --> 00:28:49.745
<00:28:47.825>you're <00:28:48.291>in <00:28:48.758>constant <00:28:49.225>contact

738
00:28:49.855 --> 00:28:51.825
<00:28:49.855>with <00:28:50.135>our <00:28:50.415>community <00:28:50.695>in <00:28:50.975>constant <00:28:51.255>contact

739
00:28:51.855 --> 00:28:53.265
<00:28:51.855>with <00:28:52.278>developers <00:28:52.701>out <00:28:53.124>there.

740
00:28:53.685 --> 00:28:55.865
<00:28:53.685>And <00:28:53.840>as <00:28:53.996>we <00:28:54.151>are <00:28:54.307>having <00:28:54.462>a <00:28:54.618>kind <00:28:54.773>of <00:28:54.929>a <00:28:55.085>podcast,

741
00:28:56.035 --> 00:28:57.425
<00:28:56.035>which <00:28:56.452>is <00:28:56.869>mainly <00:28:57.286>meant

742
00:28:57.485 --> 00:29:01.665
<00:28:57.485>for <00:28:57.659>companies <00:28:57.834>out <00:28:58.010>there <00:28:58.185>in <00:28:58.360>HR <00:28:58.534>departments, <00:28:58.709>what <00:28:58.885>kind

743
00:29:01.665 --> 00:29:04.985
<00:29:01.665>of <00:29:01.865>company <00:29:02.065>culture <00:29:02.264>resonates <00:29:02.465>most <00:29:02.665>with <00:29:02.865>developers <00:29:03.065>today?

744
00:29:05.055 --> 00:29:07.225
<00:29:05.055>What <00:29:05.255>do <00:29:05.455>you <00:29:05.655>think <00:29:05.855>is <00:29:06.055>important <00:29:06.255>for <00:29:06.455>developers?

745
00:29:07.385 --> 00:29:09.265
<00:29:07.385>I <00:29:07.540>mean, <00:29:07.696>you're <00:29:07.851>talking <00:29:08.007>to <00:29:08.162>them <00:29:08.318>on <00:29:08.473>a <00:29:08.629>daily <00:29:08.785>basis,

746
00:29:09.565 --> 00:29:13.545
<00:29:09.565>you <00:29:09.720>meet <00:29:09.876>them <00:29:10.031>regularly, <00:29:10.187>uh, <00:29:10.342>you <00:29:10.498>definitely <00:29:10.653>get <00:29:10.809>a <00:29:10.965>kind

747
00:29:13.545 --> 00:29:15.425
<00:29:13.545>of <00:29:13.700>a <00:29:13.856>lot <00:29:14.011>of <00:29:14.167>feedback <00:29:14.322>from <00:29:14.478>these <00:29:14.633>guys <00:29:14.789>as <00:29:14.945>well.

748
00:29:15.645 --> 00:29:18.705
<00:29:15.645>So <00:29:15.772>what <00:29:15.899>could <00:29:16.026>you <00:29:16.154>give <00:29:16.281>as <00:29:16.408>a <00:29:16.535>kind <00:29:16.663>of <00:29:16.790>a <00:29:16.917>final <00:29:17.045>tip

749
00:29:18.805 --> 00:29:22.105
<00:29:18.805>to <00:29:18.945>companies, <00:29:19.085>if <00:29:19.225>it <00:29:19.365>comes <00:29:19.505>to <00:29:19.645>company <00:29:19.785>culture, <00:29:19.925>if <00:29:20.065>it <00:29:20.205>comes

750
00:29:22.165 --> 00:29:25.865
<00:29:22.165>to <00:29:22.340>work <00:29:22.514>environments, <00:29:22.690>if <00:29:22.865>it <00:29:23.040>comes <00:29:23.215>to <00:29:23.389>the <00:29:23.565>indeed,

751
00:29:26.325 --> 00:29:28.705
<00:29:26.325>indeed <00:29:26.605>wishes <00:29:26.885>and <00:29:27.165>dreams <00:29:27.445>of <00:29:27.725>developers,

752
00:29:28.735 --> 00:29:30.625
<00:29:28.735>what <00:29:29.084>they <00:29:29.435>expecting <00:29:29.784>from <00:29:30.135>companies?

753
00:29:31.785 --> 00:29:33.985
<00:29:31.785>I, <00:29:31.925>I <00:29:32.065>think <00:29:32.205>that <00:29:32.345>for <00:29:32.485>me, <00:29:32.625>it <00:29:32.765>goes <00:29:32.905>back <00:29:33.045>to <00:29:33.185>some

754
00:29:33.985 --> 00:29:35.025
<00:29:33.985>of <00:29:34.172>the <00:29:34.359>topics <00:29:34.546>we've <00:29:34.733>touched <00:29:34.921>upon.

755
00:29:35.185 --> 00:29:37.425
<00:29:35.185>I <00:29:35.465>think <00:29:35.745>authenticity <00:29:36.024>is <00:29:36.304>number <00:29:36.585>one.

756
00:29:37.445 --> 00:29:39.905
<00:29:37.445>You <00:29:37.620>know, <00:29:37.794>just <00:29:37.970>being <00:29:38.145>transparent <00:29:38.320>as <00:29:38.495>a <00:29:38.669>culture, <00:29:38.845>generally

757
00:29:39.965 --> 00:29:42.805
<00:29:39.965>as <00:29:40.120>an <00:29:40.276>organization, <00:29:40.431>how <00:29:40.587>you <00:29:40.742>speak <00:29:40.898>to <00:29:41.053>the <00:29:41.209>developers, <00:29:41.365>um,

758
00:29:43.025 --> 00:29:44.685
<00:29:43.025>you <00:29:43.200>know, <00:29:43.375>what <00:29:43.550>you <00:29:43.725>expect <00:29:43.900>from <00:29:44.075>them <00:29:44.250>in <00:29:44.425>return,

759
00:29:44.685 --> 00:29:46.645
<00:29:44.685>transparency, <00:29:45.151>but <00:29:45.618>also <00:29:46.085>trust.

760
00:29:46.845 --> 00:29:49.045
<00:29:46.845>I <00:29:47.000>think <00:29:47.156>trust <00:29:47.311>is <00:29:47.467>such <00:29:47.622>a, <00:29:47.778>a, <00:29:47.933>an <00:29:48.089>important <00:29:48.245>thing.

761
00:29:49.185 --> 00:29:51.565
<00:29:49.185>And <00:29:49.418>the <00:29:49.651>developers <00:29:49.885>are <00:29:50.118>often <00:29:50.351>highly <00:29:50.585>skilled,

762
00:29:51.745 --> 00:29:52.805
<00:29:51.745>highly <00:29:52.699>motivated,

763
00:29:52.865 --> 00:29:54.965
<00:29:52.865>and <00:29:53.065>as <00:29:53.265>we <00:29:53.465>said <00:29:53.665>earlier, <00:29:53.865>they're, <00:29:54.065>they're <00:29:54.265>individuals

764
00:29:54.965 --> 00:29:56.885
<00:29:54.965>who <00:29:55.139>will <00:29:55.314>go <00:29:55.490>home <00:29:55.665>and <00:29:55.840>do <00:29:56.014>the <00:29:56.189>same <00:29:56.365>thing

765
00:29:56.885 --> 00:29:58.485
<00:29:56.885>or <00:29:57.060>something <00:29:57.235>similar <00:29:57.410>to <00:29:57.585>what <00:29:57.760>they <00:29:57.935>do <00:29:58.110>in <00:29:58.285>their

766
00:29:58.485 --> 00:29:59.605
<00:29:58.485>day <00:29:58.989>job, <00:29:59.493>possibly.

767
00:29:59.605 --> 00:30:00.605
<00:29:59.605>Mm-hmm. <00:29:59.905>I'm <00:30:00.205>not <00:30:00.505>advocating

768
00:30:00.605 --> 00:30:01.525
<00:30:00.605>it, <00:30:00.743>but <00:30:00.881>I'm <00:30:01.019>saying <00:30:01.157>it <00:30:01.295>does <00:30:01.433>happen.

769
00:30:01.825 --> 00:30:04.125
<00:30:01.825>So <00:30:02.025>do <00:30:02.225>you <00:30:02.425>need <00:30:02.625>to, <00:30:02.825>to, <00:30:03.025>you <00:30:03.225>know,

770
00:30:04.125 --> 00:30:05.645
<00:30:04.125>why <00:30:04.320>would <00:30:04.515>you <00:30:04.711>lack <00:30:04.906>trust <00:30:05.102>in <00:30:05.297>those <00:30:05.493>people?

771
00:30:05.675 --> 00:30:07.285
<00:30:05.675>They're <00:30:05.875>people <00:30:06.075>that <00:30:06.274>have <00:30:06.475>got <00:30:06.675>all <00:30:06.875>the <00:30:07.075>pieces

772
00:30:07.635 --> 00:30:09.005
<00:30:07.635>that <00:30:07.811>you <00:30:07.987>need <00:30:08.163>to <00:30:08.339>do <00:30:08.515>a <00:30:08.691>good <00:30:08.868>job.

773
00:30:09.665 --> 00:30:12.285
<00:30:09.665>And <00:30:09.840>so <00:30:10.014>I <00:30:10.190>think <00:30:10.365>with <00:30:10.540>that <00:30:10.715>comes <00:30:10.889>that <00:30:11.065>flexibility.

774
00:30:12.765 --> 00:30:15.445
<00:30:12.765>I <00:30:12.965>think <00:30:13.165>developers, <00:30:13.365>since <00:30:13.565>the <00:30:13.765>pandemic <00:30:13.965>have <00:30:14.165>more

775
00:30:15.445 --> 00:30:19.085
<00:30:15.445>and <00:30:15.620>more <00:30:15.794>increasingly <00:30:15.970>expected <00:30:16.145>remote <00:30:16.320>work <00:30:16.495>whilst <00:30:16.669>at <00:30:16.845>the

776
00:30:19.085 --> 00:30:21.885
<00:30:19.085>same <00:30:19.318>time <00:30:19.551>possibly <00:30:19.785>for <00:30:20.018>factors <00:30:20.251>to <00:30:20.485>do

777
00:30:21.885 --> 00:30:22.925
<00:30:21.885>with <00:30:22.197>commercial <00:30:22.509>real <00:30:22.821>estate.

778
00:30:22.985 --> 00:30:25.165
<00:30:22.985>You <00:30:23.140>know, <00:30:23.296>been <00:30:23.451>been <00:30:23.607>pulling <00:30:23.762>people <00:30:23.918>back <00:30:24.073>to <00:30:24.229>the <00:30:24.385>office.

779
00:30:25.865 --> 00:30:28.925
<00:30:25.865>And <00:30:26.005>I <00:30:26.145>think <00:30:26.285>developers <00:30:26.425>really <00:30:26.565>in <00:30:26.705>general <00:30:26.845>really <00:30:26.985>do <00:30:27.125>not <00:30:27.265>like

780
00:30:28.925 --> 00:30:31.605
<00:30:28.925>that <00:30:29.125>because, <00:30:29.325>um, <00:30:29.524>at <00:30:29.725>least <00:30:29.925>in <00:30:30.125>Europe, <00:30:30.325>there,

781
00:30:31.605 --> 00:30:33.765
<00:30:31.605>there <00:30:31.805>is <00:30:32.005>much <00:30:32.205>more <00:30:32.405>work-life <00:30:32.605>balance <00:30:32.805>perhaps <00:30:33.005>than,

782
00:30:33.785 --> 00:30:34.845
<00:30:33.785>you <00:30:33.975>know, <00:30:34.166>let's <00:30:34.357>say <00:30:34.548>North <00:30:34.739>America.

783
00:30:35.105 --> 00:30:38.925
<00:30:35.105>And, <00:30:35.245>um, <00:30:35.385>I <00:30:35.525>think <00:30:35.665>that <00:30:35.805>developers <00:30:35.945>in <00:30:36.085>in <00:30:36.225>Europe <00:30:36.365>really <00:30:36.505>value

784
00:30:38.925 --> 00:30:41.165
<00:30:38.925>that, <00:30:39.125>that <00:30:39.325>that <00:30:39.524>work-life <00:30:39.725>balance <00:30:39.925>is <00:30:40.125>slightly <00:30:40.325>easier

785
00:30:41.265 --> 00:30:42.285
<00:30:41.265>if <00:30:41.571>they're <00:30:41.877>working <00:30:42.183>remotely.

786
00:30:42.475 --> 00:30:44.085
<00:30:42.475>Because <00:30:42.754>why <00:30:43.034>wouldn't <00:30:43.314>you <00:30:43.594>trust <00:30:43.875>them?

787
00:30:44.085 --> 00:30:45.205
<00:30:44.085>They're <00:30:44.253>going <00:30:44.421>to <00:30:44.589>do <00:30:44.757>a <00:30:44.925>good <00:30:45.092>job

788
00:30:45.205 --> 00:30:47.005
<00:30:45.205>for <00:30:45.438>you <00:30:45.671>more, <00:30:45.905>more <00:30:46.138>often <00:30:46.371>than <00:30:46.605>not.

789
00:30:47.305 --> 00:30:49.885
<00:30:47.305>And <00:30:47.432>if <00:30:47.559>you <00:30:47.686>give <00:30:47.814>them <00:30:47.941>that <00:30:48.068>trust, <00:30:48.195>that <00:30:48.323>will, <00:30:48.450>I <00:30:48.577>think, <00:30:48.705>um,

790
00:30:50.035 --> 00:30:51.445
<00:30:50.035>enhance <00:30:50.246>the <00:30:50.458>results <00:30:50.669>you <00:30:50.881>get <00:30:51.092>from <00:30:51.303>them.

791
00:30:52.105 --> 00:30:53.845
<00:30:52.105>So <00:30:52.245>I <00:30:52.385>think <00:30:52.525>that's, <00:30:52.665>that's, <00:30:52.805>that's <00:30:52.945>what <00:30:53.085>it <00:30:53.225>boils <00:30:53.365>down <00:30:53.505>to.

792
00:30:53.895 --> 00:30:56.245
<00:30:53.895>Trust <00:30:54.128>that <00:30:54.361>they're <00:30:54.595>skilled <00:30:54.828>people, <00:30:55.061>they're <00:30:55.295>skilled,

793
00:30:56.245 --> 00:30:58.405
<00:30:56.245>knowledgeable, <00:30:56.711>motivated <00:30:57.178>people, <00:30:57.645>shown

794
00:30:58.405 --> 00:30:59.925
<00:30:58.405>that <00:30:58.600>you <00:30:58.795>trust <00:30:58.991>them <00:30:59.186>and <00:30:59.382>they'll <00:30:59.577>return <00:30:59.773>it.

795
00:31:00.975 --> 00:31:02.555
<00:31:00.975>That's <00:31:01.208>Actually <00:31:01.441>a <00:31:01.675>coding <00:31:01.908>joke <00:31:02.141>as <00:31:02.375>well.

796
00:31:02.695 --> 00:31:04.555
<00:31:02.695>Um, <00:31:02.895>return <00:31:03.095>that, <00:31:03.294>by <00:31:03.495>the <00:31:03.695>way, <00:31:03.895>that's <00:31:04.095>also

797
00:31:04.555 --> 00:31:05.675
<00:31:04.555>by <00:31:04.807>accident, <00:31:05.059>the <00:31:05.311>coding <00:31:05.562>joke.

798
00:31:06.095 --> 00:31:07.095
<00:31:06.095>So <00:31:06.995>yeah,

799
00:31:07.915 --> 00:31:09.235
<00:31:07.915>I <00:31:08.113>mean, <00:31:08.311>that <00:31:08.509>was <00:31:08.706>really, <00:31:08.905>I <00:31:09.102>think

800
00:31:09.235 --> 00:31:10.795
<00:31:09.235>that <00:31:09.468>was <00:31:09.701>the <00:31:09.935>best <00:31:10.168>closing <00:31:10.401>word <00:31:10.635>already

801
00:31:10.795 --> 00:31:13.955
<00:31:10.795>because <00:31:10.970>I <00:31:11.145>think <00:31:11.320>trust <00:31:11.495>the <00:31:11.670>people, <00:31:11.845>they <00:31:12.020>are <00:31:12.195>passionate

802
00:31:14.095 --> 00:31:17.035
<00:31:14.095>and <00:31:14.270>they're <00:31:14.445>really <00:31:14.620>doing <00:31:14.795>all <00:31:14.970>what <00:31:15.145>they <00:31:15.320>can <00:31:15.495>for,

803
00:31:17.175 --> 00:31:18.315
<00:31:17.175>for <00:31:17.517>getting <00:31:17.859>it <00:31:18.201>right.

804
00:31:18.555 --> 00:31:21.515
<00:31:18.555>I <00:31:18.710>think <00:31:18.866>that's <00:31:19.021>a <00:31:19.177>really <00:31:19.332>cool <00:31:19.488>closing <00:31:19.643>for <00:31:19.799>this <00:31:19.955>session.

805
00:31:22.175 --> 00:31:23.795
<00:31:22.175>Dan, <00:31:22.350>it <00:31:22.524>was <00:31:22.700>a <00:31:22.875>pleasure <00:31:23.050>having <00:31:23.225>you <00:31:23.399>with <00:31:23.575>me.

806
00:31:23.795 --> 00:31:26.035
<00:31:23.795>Thank <00:31:23.970>you <00:31:24.145>so <00:31:24.320>much <00:31:24.495>for <00:31:24.670>your <00:31:24.845>time. <00:31:25.020>Thank <00:31:25.195>you.

807
00:31:26.175 --> 00:31:28.995
<00:31:26.175>And <00:31:26.330>I <00:31:26.486>think <00:31:26.641>it <00:31:26.797>was <00:31:26.952>great <00:31:27.108>to <00:31:27.263>get <00:31:27.419>your <00:31:27.575>insights

808
00:31:29.015 --> 00:31:32.795
<00:31:29.015>and <00:31:29.190>to <00:31:29.365>get <00:31:29.540>the <00:31:29.715>kind <00:31:29.890>of, <00:31:30.065>uh, <00:31:30.240>information <00:31:30.415>from,

809
00:31:33.025 --> 00:31:35.115
<00:31:33.025>from <00:31:33.200>the <00:31:33.375>other <00:31:33.550>side, <00:31:33.725>let's <00:31:33.900>call <00:31:34.075>it <00:31:34.250>like <00:31:34.425>this.

810
00:31:35.115 --> 00:31:39.235
<00:31:35.115>Yeah. <00:31:35.231>Uh, <00:31:35.348>um, <00:31:35.465>um, <00:31:35.581>that <00:31:35.698>is <00:31:35.815>what <00:31:35.931>I <00:31:36.048>really, <00:31:36.165>what <00:31:36.281>I <00:31:36.398>really <00:31:36.515>like

811
00:31:39.235 --> 00:31:41.395
<00:31:39.235>and <00:31:39.435>we <00:31:39.635>developers <00:31:39.834>that <00:31:40.034>we <00:31:40.235>have <00:31:40.435>both <00:31:40.635>sides

812
00:31:41.455 --> 00:31:43.715
<00:31:41.455>and <00:31:41.610>we <00:31:41.766>are <00:31:41.921>really <00:31:42.077>trying <00:31:42.232>to <00:31:42.388>reach <00:31:42.543>this <00:31:42.699>both <00:31:42.855>sides

813
00:31:43.735 --> 00:31:46.715
<00:31:43.735>and <00:31:43.968>making <00:31:44.201>the <00:31:44.435>gap <00:31:44.668>smaller <00:31:44.901>and <00:31:45.135>smaller

814
00:31:46.735 --> 00:31:47.995
<00:31:46.735>and <00:31:46.961>smaller <00:31:47.188>from <00:31:47.415>day <00:31:47.642>to <00:31:47.869>day.

815
00:31:48.555 --> 00:31:50.675
<00:31:48.555>I <00:31:48.730>think <00:31:48.905>that's <00:31:49.080>our <00:31:49.255>mission. <00:31:49.430>That <00:31:49.605>is <00:31:49.780>what <00:31:49.955>we,

816
00:31:50.855 --> 00:31:51.875
<00:31:50.855>we <00:31:51.161>are <00:31:51.467>striving <00:31:51.773>for.

817
00:31:51.935 --> 00:31:54.035
<00:31:51.935>And <00:31:52.215>thanks <00:31:52.495>for <00:31:52.774>taking <00:31:53.054>your <00:31:53.335>time

818
00:31:54.055 --> 00:31:56.835
<00:31:54.055>and, <00:31:54.255>uh, <00:31:54.455>the <00:31:54.655>audience, <00:31:54.855>please <00:31:55.055>stay <00:31:55.255>tuned, <00:31:55.455>uh,

819
00:31:56.895 --> 00:31:58.275
<00:31:56.895>for <00:31:57.309>the <00:31:57.723>upcoming <00:31:58.137>episodes

820
00:31:58.295 --> 00:32:00.195
<00:31:58.295>and <00:31:58.435>it <00:31:58.575>was <00:31:58.715>a <00:31:58.855>pleasure <00:31:58.995>to <00:31:59.135>have <00:31:59.275>you <00:31:59.415>with <00:31:59.555>us <00:31:59.695>then.

821
00:32:00.705 --> 00:32:02.355
<00:32:00.705>Bye-bye. <00:32:01.054>Thank <00:32:01.405>you <00:32:01.754>so <00:32:02.105>much.

822
00:32:08.565 --> 00:32:10.595
<00:32:08.565>Thank <00:32:08.798>you <00:32:09.031>for <00:32:09.265>watching <00:32:09.498>CAP <00:32:09.731>with <00:32:09.965>hr.

823
00:32:10.595 --> 00:32:12.475
<00:32:10.595>If <00:32:10.828>you <00:32:11.061>enjoyed <00:32:11.295>this <00:32:11.528>kind <00:32:11.761>of <00:32:11.995>conversations,

824
00:32:12.475 --> 00:32:14.635
<00:32:12.475>please <00:32:12.675>don't <00:32:12.875>forget <00:32:13.074>to <00:32:13.274>hit <00:32:13.475>the <00:32:13.675>subscribe <00:32:13.875>button,

825
00:32:14.825 --> 00:32:17.275
<00:32:14.825>then <00:32:15.000>you <00:32:15.175>get <00:32:15.350>all <00:32:15.525>this <00:32:15.700>kind <00:32:15.875>of <00:32:16.050>upfront <00:32:16.225>information,

826
00:32:17.275 --> 00:32:20.235
<00:32:17.275>your <00:32:17.475>upcoming <00:32:17.675>episodes <00:32:17.875>and <00:32:18.075>all <00:32:18.275>my <00:32:18.475>nice <00:32:18.675>guests.

827
00:32:20.495 --> 00:32:22.995
<00:32:20.495>The <00:32:20.635>with <00:32:20.774>HR <00:32:20.915>is <00:32:21.054>brought <00:32:21.195>to <00:32:21.334>you <00:32:21.475>by, <00:32:21.614>we <00:32:21.754>are <00:32:21.895>developers,

828
00:32:23.115 --> 00:32:25.075
<00:32:23.115>Europe's <00:32:23.465>number <00:32:23.815>one <00:32:24.165>developer <00:32:24.515>community,

829
00:32:25.095 --> 00:32:27.875
<00:32:25.095>and <00:32:25.328>the <00:32:25.561>leading <00:32:25.795>platform <00:32:26.028>for <00:32:26.261>connecting <00:32:26.495>HR

830
00:32:28.175 --> 00:32:30.355
<00:32:28.175>and <00:32:28.524>companies <00:32:28.875>together <00:32:29.225>with <00:32:29.575>developers.

831
00:32:30.615 --> 00:32:32.035
<00:32:30.615>If <00:32:30.797>you <00:32:30.980>want <00:32:31.162>to <00:32:31.345>learn <00:32:31.527>more <00:32:31.710>with <00:32:31.893>it,

832
00:32:32.035 --> 00:32:34.915
<00:32:32.035>as <00:32:32.210>on <00:32:32.385>weird <00:32:32.560>developers.com, <00:32:32.735>thank <00:32:32.910>you <00:32:33.085>again <00:32:33.260>for <00:32:33.435>watching

833
00:32:34.915 --> 00:32:36.795
<00:32:34.915>and <00:32:35.090>see <00:32:35.264>you <00:32:35.440>next <00:32:35.615>time <00:32:35.790>in <00:32:35.965>Cappuccino <00:32:36.139>with <00:32:36.315>hr.