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<00:00:20.425>Now <00:00:20.584>we're <00:00:20.744>gonna <00:00:20.904>get <00:00:21.064>into <00:00:21.223>some <00:00:21.383>of <00:00:21.543>the <00:00:21.703>topics

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<00:00:21.915>that <00:00:22.070>you <00:00:22.226>are <00:00:22.381>going <00:00:22.537>to <00:00:22.692>be, <00:00:22.848>uh, <00:00:23.003>talking <00:00:23.159>about <00:00:23.314>today.

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<00:00:34.465>Um, <00:00:34.640>let's <00:00:34.815>start <00:00:34.990>with <00:00:35.165>the <00:00:35.340>session <00:00:35.515>you're <00:00:35.690>doing <00:00:35.865>today.

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<00:00:36.745>So <00:00:36.900>what <00:00:37.056>we've <00:00:37.211>got <00:00:37.367>here <00:00:37.522>is, <00:00:37.678>uh, <00:00:37.833>your <00:00:37.989>session's <00:00:38.144>going

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<00:00:39.685>to <00:00:39.918>be <00:00:40.151>called <00:00:40.385>the <00:00:40.618>Code <00:00:40.851>Quality <00:00:41.085>Advantage,

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<00:00:41.955>debunking <00:00:42.235>the <00:00:42.515>speed <00:00:42.795>versus <00:00:43.074>quality <00:00:43.355>Myth

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<00:00:45.905>Now, <00:00:46.045>that <00:00:46.185>last <00:00:46.325>part <00:00:46.465>I <00:00:46.605>think <00:00:46.745>is, <00:00:46.885>is <00:00:47.025>very, <00:00:47.165>very <00:00:47.305>interesting

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<00:00:50.525>Right. <00:00:50.641>Um, <00:00:50.758>so <00:00:50.875>tell <00:00:50.991>us <00:00:51.108>what, <00:00:51.225>what <00:00:51.341>sort <00:00:51.458>of <00:00:51.574>led <00:00:51.691>you <00:00:51.808>to <00:00:51.925>this,

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<00:00:53.995>this <00:00:54.135>niche, <00:00:54.275>I <00:00:54.415>suppose, <00:00:54.555>where <00:00:54.695>you, <00:00:54.834>you <00:00:54.974>talk <00:00:55.114>around, <00:00:55.254>you <00:00:55.394>know,

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<00:00:58.505>and, <00:00:58.785>uh, <00:00:59.065>what's <00:00:59.345>your <00:00:59.625>programming <00:00:59.905>background?

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<00:01:02.225>Oh, <00:01:02.458>it's <00:01:02.691>been <00:01:02.925>a <00:01:03.158>very <00:01:03.391>long <00:01:03.625>journey,

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<00:01:04.504>but <00:01:04.644>basically <00:01:04.785>the <00:01:04.925>problem <00:01:05.065>I <00:01:05.205>tried <00:01:05.345>to <00:01:05.485>solve <00:01:05.625>was <00:01:05.765>that, <00:01:05.905>uh,

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<00:01:21.664>No, <00:01:21.872>we <00:01:22.079>don't <00:01:22.286>have <00:01:22.493>time <00:01:22.700>to <00:01:22.907>refactor.

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<00:01:23.265>We <00:01:23.438>don't <00:01:23.611>have <00:01:23.784>time <00:01:23.958>to <00:01:24.131>fix <00:01:24.304>this <00:01:24.477>or <00:01:24.651>that.

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<00:01:25.305>And <00:01:25.505>it <00:01:25.705>was <00:01:25.905>like <00:01:26.105>people <00:01:26.305>had <00:01:26.505>this <00:01:26.705>idea

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<00:01:26.925>that <00:01:27.105>there <00:01:27.285>is <00:01:27.465>a <00:01:27.645>hard <00:01:27.825>trade <00:01:28.005>off

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<00:01:28.195>between <00:01:28.544>speed <00:01:28.895>and <00:01:29.244>quality, <00:01:29.595>right?

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<00:01:30.065>We <00:01:30.229>can <00:01:30.393>never <00:01:30.557>have <00:01:30.722>both <00:01:30.886>at <00:01:31.050>the <00:01:31.214>same <00:01:31.379>time.

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<00:01:31.625>At <00:01:31.752>the <00:01:31.879>same <00:01:32.006>time, <00:01:32.134>my <00:01:32.261>experience <00:01:32.388>kind <00:01:32.515>of <00:01:32.643>showed <00:01:32.770>me <00:01:32.897>that, <00:01:33.025>hmm,

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<00:01:34.575>there <00:01:34.750>has <00:01:34.925>to <00:01:35.100>be <00:01:35.275>a <00:01:35.450>different <00:01:35.625>way <00:01:35.800>around <00:01:35.975>it.

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<00:01:37.145>So <00:01:37.378>that's <00:01:37.611>what <00:01:37.845>led <00:01:38.078>me <00:01:38.311>into <00:01:38.545>trying

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<00:01:39.164>to <00:01:39.398>put <00:01:39.631>some <00:01:39.865>actual <00:01:40.098>numbers <00:01:40.331>on <00:01:40.565>it

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<00:01:41.825>and, <00:01:41.980>um, <00:01:42.136>that's <00:01:42.291>what <00:01:42.447>I'm <00:01:42.602>going <00:01:42.758>to <00:01:42.913>talk <00:01:43.069>about <00:01:43.225>today.

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<00:01:44.354>Okay. <00:01:44.548>I <00:01:44.741>like <00:01:44.935>it. <00:01:45.129>Now <00:01:45.322>again, <00:01:45.516>I'm,

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<00:01:45.645>I'm <00:01:45.772>not <00:01:45.899>gonna <00:01:46.026>put <00:01:46.154>you <00:01:46.281>on <00:01:46.408>the <00:01:46.535>spot <00:01:46.663>for <00:01:46.790>the <00:01:46.917>numbers <00:01:47.045>either.

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<00:01:47.515>I've <00:01:47.673>had <00:01:47.832>a <00:01:47.990>look <00:01:48.149>and <00:01:48.308>found <00:01:48.466>a <00:01:48.625>few <00:01:48.783>myself

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<00:01:48.925>that <00:01:49.087>maybe <00:01:49.249>we'll <00:01:49.411>get <00:01:49.573>to <00:01:49.735>those <00:01:49.896>later.

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<00:01:50.465>Um, <00:01:50.665>now <00:01:50.865>you <00:01:51.065>are <00:01:51.265>here <00:01:51.465>representing <00:01:51.665>Codes <00:01:51.865>Scene,

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<00:01:53.085>which <00:01:53.318>is <00:01:53.551>your <00:01:53.785>own <00:01:54.018>organization, <00:01:54.251>I <00:01:54.485>believe.

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<00:01:54.945>Um, <00:01:55.119>so <00:01:55.294>tell <00:01:55.470>us <00:01:55.645>about <00:01:55.820>how <00:01:55.994>that <00:01:56.169>came <00:01:56.345>about

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<00:01:57.185>and <00:01:57.385>what, <00:01:57.585>what's <00:01:57.785>your <00:01:57.985>mission <00:01:58.185>with <00:01:58.385>Codes <00:01:58.585>Scene?

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<00:02:00.235>Yeah, <00:02:00.468>so <00:02:00.701>Codes <00:02:00.935>Scene <00:02:01.168>is <00:02:01.401>my <00:02:01.635>startup.

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<00:02:02.035>Been <00:02:02.268>running <00:02:02.501>it <00:02:02.735>for <00:02:02.968>10 <00:02:03.201>years <00:02:03.435>now.

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<00:02:04.265>And, <00:02:04.420>uh, <00:02:04.576>it <00:02:04.731>all <00:02:04.887>started, <00:02:05.042>uh, <00:02:05.198>during <00:02:05.353>Michael <00:02:05.509>Consults <00:02:05.665>years.

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<00:02:08.824>So <00:02:09.000>I <00:02:09.174>kind <00:02:09.350>of <00:02:09.524>noticed <00:02:09.699>that <00:02:09.875>most <00:02:10.049>software <00:02:10.225>project,

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<00:02:11.325>they <00:02:11.661>really, <00:02:11.997>really <00:02:12.333>struggle

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<00:02:12.865>and <00:02:13.020>they <00:02:13.176>struggle <00:02:13.331>in <00:02:13.487>a <00:02:13.642>sense <00:02:13.798>that <00:02:13.953>they <00:02:14.109>deliver <00:02:14.265>late

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<00:02:15.225>or, <00:02:15.437>uh, <00:02:15.649>with <00:02:15.862>done <00:02:16.074>on <00:02:16.287>quality

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<00:02:17.704>or, <00:02:17.880>you <00:02:18.054>know, <00:02:18.230>compromised <00:02:18.404>feature <00:02:18.579>sets, <00:02:18.755>the <00:02:18.929>usual <00:02:19.105>stuff.

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<00:02:21.704>And <00:02:21.880>I <00:02:22.054>thought <00:02:22.230>that's, <00:02:22.404>uh, <00:02:22.579>seems <00:02:22.755>to <00:02:22.929>be <00:02:23.105>really,

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<00:02:24.405>really <00:02:24.684>hard <00:02:24.963>succeed <00:02:25.242>with <00:02:25.521>software.

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<00:02:26.025>So <00:02:26.263>I <00:02:26.502>decide, <00:02:26.740>dig <00:02:26.979>deeper

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<00:02:27.105>and <00:02:27.338>spread, <00:02:27.571>figure <00:02:27.804>out <00:02:28.038>why <00:02:28.271>is <00:02:28.505>it

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<00:02:29.565>so <00:02:29.795>hard <00:02:30.025>to <00:02:30.256>succeed <00:02:30.486>with <00:02:30.716>software.

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<00:02:31.505>And <00:02:31.680>I <00:02:31.855>never <00:02:32.030>found <00:02:32.204>also <00:02:32.380>in <00:02:32.555>the <00:02:32.730>software <00:02:32.905>industry.

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<00:02:33.505>So <00:02:33.706>I <00:02:33.906>decided <00:02:34.108>to <00:02:34.309>do <00:02:34.510>something <00:02:34.711>different.

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<00:02:34.845>So <00:02:34.984>I <00:02:35.125>picked <00:02:35.265>up <00:02:35.405>psychology. <00:02:35.545>So <00:02:35.685>I <00:02:35.825>started <00:02:35.965>to <00:02:36.105>study <00:02:36.245>psychology.

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<00:02:39.055>Ended <00:02:39.210>up <00:02:39.366>spending <00:02:39.521>six <00:02:39.677>years <00:02:39.832>at <00:02:39.988>the <00:02:40.143>university <00:02:40.299>doing <00:02:40.455>that.

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<00:02:43.145>And <00:02:43.300>at <00:02:43.456>the <00:02:43.611>same <00:02:43.767>time <00:02:43.922>I <00:02:44.078>was <00:02:44.233>fortunate <00:02:44.389>to <00:02:44.545>work

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<00:02:45.665>as <00:02:46.131>a <00:02:46.598>technical <00:02:47.065>consultant,

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<00:02:47.485>whereas <00:02:47.685>technical <00:02:47.885>leadership <00:02:48.085>roles, <00:02:48.285>which <00:02:48.485>gave <00:02:48.685>me <00:02:48.885>plenty

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<00:02:50.565>of <00:02:50.739>ways <00:02:50.914>of <00:02:51.089>kind <00:02:51.264>of, <00:02:51.439>you <00:02:51.614>know, <00:02:51.789>taking

77
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<00:02:51.925>what <00:02:52.249>I <00:02:52.573>learned <00:02:52.897>psychology

78
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<00:02:53.665>and <00:02:53.840>it, <00:02:54.015>the <00:02:54.190>top <00:02:54.364>of <00:02:54.540>my <00:02:54.715>daily <00:02:54.890>tech <00:02:55.065>work.

79
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<00:02:56.905>And <00:02:57.152>the <00:02:57.400>problem <00:02:57.647>I <00:02:57.894>was

80
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<00:02:58.005>after <00:02:58.180>was <00:02:58.355>to <00:02:58.530>kind <00:02:58.704>of <00:02:58.880>be <00:02:59.055>able <00:02:59.230>to <00:02:59.405>communicate

81
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<00:02:59.845>between <00:03:00.045>engineering <00:03:00.245>and <00:03:00.445>management, <00:03:00.645>kinda <00:03:00.845>show <00:03:01.045>that, <00:03:01.245>no,

82
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<00:03:03.605>you <00:03:03.809>cannot <00:03:04.013>go <00:03:04.216>ahead <00:03:04.421>with <00:03:04.625>this <00:03:04.829>feature

83
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<00:03:05.235>because <00:03:05.435>we <00:03:05.635>have <00:03:05.835>a <00:03:06.035>ton <00:03:06.235>of <00:03:06.435>technical <00:03:06.635>depth.

84
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<00:03:07.365>We <00:03:07.550>need <00:03:07.735>to <00:03:07.920>do <00:03:08.105>something <00:03:08.290>about <00:03:08.475>it <00:03:08.661>first.

85
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<00:03:09.585>So <00:03:09.740>that's <00:03:09.896>where <00:03:10.051>it <00:03:10.207>started. <00:03:10.362>And <00:03:10.518>I <00:03:10.673>developed <00:03:10.829>a <00:03:10.985>couple

86
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<00:03:11.845>of <00:03:12.020>techniques, <00:03:12.195>took <00:03:12.370>a <00:03:12.545>lot <00:03:12.720>of <00:03:12.895>inspiration <00:03:13.070>from <00:03:13.245>my

87
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<00:03:14.015>psychology <00:03:14.978>background.

88
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<00:03:15.245>I <00:03:15.478>can <00:03:15.711>visualize <00:03:15.945>software, <00:03:16.178>I <00:03:16.411>can <00:03:16.645>pinpoint

89
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<00:03:17.465>and <00:03:17.831>prioritize <00:03:18.197>like <00:03:18.563>that.

90
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<00:03:19.505>And <00:03:19.644>after <00:03:19.785>doing <00:03:19.924>that <00:03:20.065>for <00:03:20.204>a <00:03:20.345>couple <00:03:20.484>of <00:03:20.625>years, <00:03:20.765>I <00:03:20.905>decided

91
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<00:03:21.725>that <00:03:21.880>I <00:03:22.036>really <00:03:22.191>want <00:03:22.347>to <00:03:22.502>share <00:03:22.658>this <00:03:22.813>with <00:03:22.969>the <00:03:23.125>community.

92
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<00:03:23.645>So <00:03:23.820>I <00:03:23.995>decided <00:03:24.170>to <00:03:24.345>write <00:03:24.520>a <00:03:24.695>book <00:03:24.870>about <00:03:25.045>it.

93
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<00:03:25.665>So <00:03:25.804>I <00:03:25.945>wrote <00:03:26.084>a <00:03:26.225>book <00:03:26.364>called <00:03:26.505>Your <00:03:26.644>Code <00:03:26.785>Is <00:03:26.924>Crime <00:03:27.065>Scene.

94
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<00:03:28.425>And <00:03:28.625>after <00:03:28.825>writing <00:03:29.025>that <00:03:29.225>book, <00:03:29.425>obviously <00:03:29.625>I <00:03:29.825>thought

95
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<00:03:30.485>that <00:03:30.660>if <00:03:30.835>I <00:03:31.010>want <00:03:31.185>these <00:03:31.360>techniques <00:03:31.535>to <00:03:31.710>become <00:03:31.885>mainstream,

96
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<00:03:32.725>there <00:03:32.899>has <00:03:33.074>to <00:03:33.249>be <00:03:33.424>good <00:03:33.599>tooling <00:03:33.774>around <00:03:33.949>it.

97
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<00:03:34.625>So <00:03:34.975>that <00:03:35.325>was <00:03:35.675>my <00:03:36.025>purpose

98
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<00:03:36.985>and <00:03:37.218>original <00:03:37.451>idea <00:03:37.685>with <00:03:37.918>code <00:03:38.151>to <00:03:38.385>kind

99
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<00:03:39.045>of <00:03:39.325>make <00:03:39.605>this <00:03:39.885>accessible <00:03:40.165>to <00:03:40.445>everyone.

100
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<00:03:41.265>And <00:03:41.489>I <00:03:41.714>think <00:03:41.940>there's <00:03:42.165>something <00:03:42.390>really <00:03:42.614>interesting

101
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<00:03:42.765>as <00:03:42.892>well <00:03:43.019>about, <00:03:43.146>um, <00:03:43.274>when <00:03:43.401>I <00:03:43.528>saw <00:03:43.655>just <00:03:43.783>the <00:03:43.910>title <00:03:44.037>of <00:03:44.165>that

102
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<00:03:45.204>and <00:03:45.362>what, <00:03:45.519>what, <00:03:45.677>what <00:03:45.834>moves <00:03:45.992>to <00:03:46.149>the <00:03:46.307>book <00:03:46.464>now,

103
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<00:03:46.605>because <00:03:46.827>I <00:03:47.049>think <00:03:47.271>it's, <00:03:47.493>uh, <00:03:47.715>you <00:03:47.937>know,

104
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<00:03:48.085>it's <00:03:48.308>something <00:03:48.531>that's <00:03:48.754>really, <00:03:48.977>really <00:03:49.201>interesting.

105
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<00:03:49.325>Just <00:03:49.464>the <00:03:49.605>title, <00:03:49.744>you <00:03:49.885>said <00:03:50.024>your <00:03:50.165>code <00:03:50.304>as <00:03:50.445>a <00:03:50.584>crime <00:03:50.725>scene.

106
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<00:03:51.625>Um, <00:03:51.780>how <00:03:51.936>did <00:03:52.091>you, <00:03:52.247>what, <00:03:52.402>what <00:03:52.558>led <00:03:52.713>you <00:03:52.869>to <00:03:53.025>kind

107
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<00:03:54.045>of <00:03:54.342>visualizing <00:03:54.639>it <00:03:54.936>like <00:03:55.233>that

108
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<00:03:55.505>and <00:03:55.660>what <00:03:55.816>are <00:03:55.971>the, <00:03:56.127>what <00:03:56.282>are <00:03:56.438>the <00:03:56.593>a <00:03:56.749>few <00:03:56.905>things

109
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<00:03:57.805>that <00:03:57.921>you <00:03:58.038>would <00:03:58.155>say, <00:03:58.271>these <00:03:58.388>are <00:03:58.505>the <00:03:58.621>things <00:03:58.738>I <00:03:58.855>see <00:03:58.971>in <00:03:59.088>a <00:03:59.205>code

110
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<00:04:00.445>base <00:04:00.644>that <00:04:00.845>are <00:04:01.045>most <00:04:01.245>like <00:04:01.445>a <00:04:01.644>crime <00:04:01.845>scene?

111
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<00:04:02.825>That's <00:04:03.037>a <00:04:03.251>strange <00:04:03.464>question <00:04:03.677>I <00:04:03.890>never <00:04:04.103>thought

112
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<00:04:04.245>I'd <00:04:04.401>ask <00:04:04.557>Adam, <00:04:04.713>but <00:04:04.869>I <00:04:05.025>love <00:04:05.180>it.

113
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<00:04:05.675>Yeah, <00:04:05.908>fair <00:04:06.141>enough. <00:04:06.375>So <00:04:06.608>the <00:04:06.841>research <00:04:07.075>title,

114
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<00:04:08.195>your <00:04:08.394>code <00:04:08.594>is <00:04:08.793>crime <00:04:08.993>scene, <00:04:09.192>but <00:04:09.392>was

115
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<00:04:09.525>because <00:04:09.680>I <00:04:09.836>took <00:04:09.991>a <00:04:10.147>lot <00:04:10.302>of <00:04:10.458>her <00:04:10.613>inspiration <00:04:10.769>from <00:04:10.925>criminal

116
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<00:04:11.725>psychology <00:04:12.424>in <00:04:13.125>particular.

117
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<00:04:14.145>One, <00:04:14.345>I <00:04:14.545>learned <00:04:14.745>about <00:04:14.945>the <00:04:15.145>study <00:04:15.345>criminal <00:04:15.545>psychology,

118
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<00:04:16.464>and <00:04:16.620>I <00:04:16.776>learned <00:04:16.931>about <00:04:17.087>the <00:04:17.242>method <00:04:17.398>to <00:04:17.553>track <00:04:17.709>serial <00:04:17.864>offenders.

119
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<00:04:18.954>Well <00:04:19.180>thought <00:04:19.404>they <00:04:19.630>were, <00:04:19.854>it's <00:04:20.079>called

120
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<00:04:20.485>geographical <00:04:21.097>offender <00:04:21.709>profiling.

121
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<00:04:22.305>And <00:04:22.480>it's <00:04:22.655>based <00:04:22.830>on, <00:04:23.005>you <00:04:23.180>know, <00:04:23.355>tracking <00:04:23.530>human <00:04:23.705>behavior,

122
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<00:04:25.405>symptom <00:04:25.710>finding <00:04:26.017>patterns <00:04:26.323>in <00:04:26.628>that.

123
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<00:04:27.625>And <00:04:27.808>I <00:04:27.991>thought, <00:04:28.174>what <00:04:28.357>if <00:04:28.540>I <00:04:28.723>could

124
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<00:04:28.845>do <00:04:29.046>the <00:04:29.248>same <00:04:29.449>thing <00:04:29.651>for <00:04:29.852>software?

125
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<00:04:29.985>So <00:04:30.140>what <00:04:30.296>if <00:04:30.451>I <00:04:30.607>could <00:04:30.762>pick <00:04:30.918>up <00:04:31.073>a <00:04:31.229>code <00:04:31.385>based

126
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<00:04:31.645>and <00:04:31.924>can <00:04:32.205>track <00:04:32.484>the <00:04:32.765>developer <00:04:33.044>behavior

127
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<00:04:34.585>and <00:04:34.749>see <00:04:34.913>if <00:04:35.077>there <00:04:35.242>are <00:04:35.406>any <00:04:35.570>patterns <00:04:35.734>in <00:04:35.899>it?

128
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<00:04:36.625>And <00:04:36.858>it <00:04:37.091>quickly <00:04:37.325>turned <00:04:37.558>out <00:04:37.791>that <00:04:38.025>yes,

129
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<00:04:38.335>there <00:04:38.614>are <00:04:38.895>some <00:04:39.174>pretty <00:04:39.455>obvious <00:04:39.734>patterns.

130
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<00:04:41.385>The <00:04:41.659>most <00:04:41.934>obvious <00:04:42.208>one <00:04:42.483>is

131
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<00:04:42.605>that <00:04:42.760>not <00:04:42.916>all <00:04:43.071>code <00:04:43.227>is <00:04:43.382>equal <00:04:43.538>in <00:04:43.693>cordal, <00:04:43.849>the <00:04:44.005>parts

132
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<00:04:45.565>of <00:04:45.720>the <00:04:45.876>code <00:04:46.031>base <00:04:46.187>where <00:04:46.342>we <00:04:46.498>work <00:04:46.653>every <00:04:46.809>single <00:04:46.965>day,

133
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<00:04:48.595>it's <00:04:48.875>critical, <00:04:49.155>our <00:04:49.435>roadmap, <00:04:49.715>everyone <00:04:49.995>kind

134
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<00:04:50.925>of <00:04:51.080>knows <00:04:51.236>about <00:04:51.391>it, <00:04:51.547>but <00:04:51.702>no <00:04:51.858>one <00:04:52.013>can <00:04:52.169>see <00:04:52.325>it.

135
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<00:04:52.905>So <00:04:53.104>that's <00:04:53.304>obviously <00:04:53.505>important <00:04:53.705>to <00:04:53.905>the <00:04:54.104>code <00:04:54.304>where

136
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<00:04:55.395>code <00:04:55.739>quality <00:04:56.083>is <00:04:56.427>extra <00:04:56.772>important.

137
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<00:04:57.885>'cause <00:04:58.040>even <00:04:58.196>a <00:04:58.351>minor <00:04:58.507>amount <00:04:58.662>of <00:04:58.818>technical <00:04:58.973>debt <00:04:59.129>will <00:04:59.284>quickly

138
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<00:05:00.305>become <00:05:01.005>really <00:05:01.705>expensive.

139
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<00:05:02.425>And <00:05:02.552>then <00:05:02.679>other <00:05:02.806>parts <00:05:02.934>of <00:05:03.061>the <00:05:03.188>code <00:05:03.315>base <00:05:03.443>that <00:05:03.570>are <00:05:03.697>very <00:05:03.825>stable.

140
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<00:05:05.025>So <00:05:05.200>they <00:05:05.375>might <00:05:05.549>be <00:05:05.724>worse <00:05:05.900>from <00:05:06.075>a <00:05:06.250>technical <00:05:06.424>perspective,

141
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<00:05:07.345>but <00:05:07.625>since <00:05:07.905>we <00:05:08.185>don't <00:05:08.465>work <00:05:08.745>there,

142
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<00:05:09.725>I <00:05:09.929>mean <00:05:10.133>maybe <00:05:10.337>it's <00:05:10.541>not <00:05:10.745>that <00:05:10.948>urgent.

143
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<00:05:12.105>So <00:05:12.305>those <00:05:12.505>are <00:05:12.705>two <00:05:12.905>Paris <00:05:13.105>that <00:05:13.305>I, <00:05:13.505>uh,

144
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<00:05:14.765>grabbed <00:05:15.231>from <00:05:15.698>forensic <00:05:16.164>psychology.

145
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<00:05:17.445>'cause <00:05:17.620>I <00:05:17.795>think <00:05:17.969>the, <00:05:18.145>the, <00:05:18.320>the, <00:05:18.495>the, <00:05:18.670>the <00:05:18.844>niche

146
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<00:05:19.245>that <00:05:19.430>you <00:05:19.615>found, <00:05:19.800>I <00:05:19.985>suppose, <00:05:20.170>and <00:05:20.355>it <00:05:20.541>sounds

147
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<00:05:20.685>quite <00:05:20.919>a <00:05:21.153>natural <00:05:21.387>niche, <00:05:21.621>right?

148
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<00:05:21.725>It <00:05:21.852>was <00:05:21.979>out <00:05:22.106>of <00:05:22.234>your <00:05:22.361>own <00:05:22.488>interest <00:05:22.615>seeing <00:05:22.743>in <00:05:22.870>terms <00:05:22.997>of, <00:05:23.125>uh,

149
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<00:05:23.685>coming <00:05:23.937>from <00:05:24.188>a <00:05:24.441>psychological

150
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<00:05:24.525>background <00:05:24.794>and <00:05:25.065>then <00:05:25.335>applying <00:05:25.605>that.

151
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<00:05:25.785>And, <00:05:25.960>and <00:05:26.135>I <00:05:26.310>suppose <00:05:26.485>it <00:05:26.660>was, <00:05:26.835>it's <00:05:27.010>how <00:05:27.185>you're,

152
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<00:05:27.665>how <00:05:27.903>you're <00:05:28.142>seeing <00:05:28.380>things, <00:05:28.619>right?

153
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<00:05:28.875>It's, <00:05:29.108>it's <00:05:29.341>not <00:05:29.575>a <00:05:29.808>conscious <00:05:30.041>thing, <00:05:30.275>it's

154
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<00:05:30.605>that <00:05:30.805>you've <00:05:31.005>already <00:05:31.205>got <00:05:31.405>this <00:05:31.605>knowledge <00:05:31.805>of <00:05:32.005>psychology

155
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<00:05:32.245>and <00:05:32.435>then <00:05:32.625>you <00:05:32.815>just <00:05:33.006>see <00:05:33.196>it <00:05:33.386>in <00:05:33.577>action.

156
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<00:05:34.185>Um, <00:05:34.312>somebody <00:05:34.439>said <00:05:34.566>to <00:05:34.694>me <00:05:34.821>once <00:05:34.948>that, <00:05:35.075>you <00:05:35.203>know, <00:05:35.330>code <00:05:35.457>is <00:05:35.585>written

157
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<00:05:37.745>by <00:05:37.885>humans, <00:05:38.025>but <00:05:38.165>we <00:05:38.305>spend <00:05:38.445>so <00:05:38.585>much <00:05:38.725>time <00:05:38.865>talking <00:05:39.005>about <00:05:39.145>code,

158
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<00:05:40.705>we <00:05:40.917>forget <00:05:41.129>that <00:05:41.342>it's <00:05:41.554>the <00:05:41.767>humans

159
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<00:05:41.885>that <00:05:42.113>write <00:05:42.341>it <00:05:42.568>that <00:05:42.796>are <00:05:43.025>really <00:05:43.253>important.

160
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<00:05:43.905>And <00:05:44.032>it <00:05:44.159>made <00:05:44.286>me <00:05:44.414>think <00:05:44.541>about, <00:05:44.668>if <00:05:44.795>you <00:05:44.923>think <00:05:45.050>about <00:05:45.177>other <00:05:45.304>areas

161
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<00:05:47.025>of, <00:05:47.342>of <00:05:47.661>maybe <00:05:47.979>arts.

162
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<00:05:48.345>So <00:05:48.500>if <00:05:48.656>you <00:05:48.811>were <00:05:48.967>to <00:05:49.122>look <00:05:49.278>at <00:05:49.433>somebody's <00:05:49.589>music, <00:05:49.745>you,

163
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<00:05:50.425>you <00:05:50.541>might <00:05:50.658>be <00:05:50.775>able <00:05:50.891>to <00:05:51.008>tell <00:05:51.125>a <00:05:51.241>little <00:05:51.358>bit <00:05:51.475>about <00:05:51.591>who <00:05:51.708>they <00:05:51.825>are

164
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<00:05:52.545>or <00:05:52.891>something <00:05:53.238>about <00:05:53.584>their <00:05:53.931>kind

165
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<00:05:54.085>of <00:05:54.364>their <00:05:54.645>personality <00:05:54.924>or <00:05:55.205>their <00:05:55.484>character.

166
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<00:05:56.465>Do <00:05:56.640>you <00:05:56.815>think <00:05:56.990>you <00:05:57.165>could <00:05:57.340>do <00:05:57.515>that <00:05:57.690>in <00:05:57.865>reverse?

167
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<00:05:58.165>Could <00:05:58.424>you <00:05:58.683>look <00:05:58.942>at <00:05:59.201>somebody's <00:05:59.461>code

168
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<00:05:59.784>and <00:05:59.984>do <00:06:00.184>you <00:06:00.385>see <00:06:00.585>things <00:06:00.784>like <00:06:00.984>maybe <00:06:01.184>indecision

169
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<00:06:03.105>or, <00:06:03.212>um, <00:06:03.320>a <00:06:03.428>big <00:06:03.535>ego <00:06:03.643>do, <00:06:03.751>do <00:06:03.858>you <00:06:03.966>think <00:06:04.074>you <00:06:04.181>can <00:06:04.289>see <00:06:04.397>that <00:06:04.505>in

170
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<00:06:06.365>how <00:06:06.540>code <00:06:06.715>or <00:06:06.890>how, <00:06:07.065>how <00:06:07.240>software <00:06:07.415>is <00:06:07.590>architected <00:06:07.765>or,

171
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<00:06:09.005>or <00:06:09.121>how <00:06:09.238>it's <00:06:09.355>literally <00:06:09.471>written <00:06:09.588>in <00:06:09.705>a <00:06:09.821>kind <00:06:09.938>of <00:06:10.055>a, <00:06:10.171>um, <00:06:10.288>you <00:06:10.405>know,

172
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<00:06:12.005>a <00:06:12.205>one <00:06:12.405>file <00:06:12.605>looking <00:06:12.805>in <00:06:13.005>at <00:06:13.205>the <00:06:13.405>specific

173
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<00:06:14.225>or <00:06:14.526>function <00:06:14.828>that <00:06:15.129>somebody's <00:06:15.431>written?

174
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<00:06:15.985>Um, <00:06:16.160>do <00:06:16.335>you <00:06:16.510>think <00:06:16.685>you <00:06:16.860>can <00:06:17.035>see <00:06:17.210>those <00:06:17.385>things

175
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<00:06:17.745>in <00:06:18.063>somebody's <00:06:18.381>code <00:06:18.699>base?

176
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<00:06:18.905>And <00:06:19.060>then <00:06:19.216>what, <00:06:19.371>what <00:06:19.527>are <00:06:19.682>the <00:06:19.838>problems? <00:06:19.993>Are <00:06:20.149>they <00:06:20.304>called?

177
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<00:06:22.745>That's, <00:06:23.211>uh, <00:06:23.678>very <00:06:24.145>interesting.

178
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<00:06:24.905>So <00:06:25.044>I <00:06:25.184>don't <00:06:25.325>think <00:06:25.465>you <00:06:25.604>can <00:06:25.744>see <00:06:25.885>it <00:06:26.025>in <00:06:26.164>the <00:06:26.304>code,

179
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<00:06:27.865>but <00:06:28.005>I <00:06:28.145>definitely <00:06:28.285>think <00:06:28.425>you <00:06:28.565>can <00:06:28.705>see <00:06:28.845>it <00:06:28.985>in <00:06:29.125>the <00:06:29.265>patterns

180
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<00:06:30.445>and <00:06:30.711>traces <00:06:30.977>that <00:06:31.244>developers <00:06:31.510>leave <00:06:31.777>combine.

181
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<00:06:32.545>So <00:06:32.786>what <00:06:33.027>that <00:06:33.268>means <00:06:33.509>in <00:06:33.751>practice,

182
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<00:06:34.005>and <00:06:34.160>of <00:06:34.316>course <00:06:34.471>what <00:06:34.627>we <00:06:34.782>do <00:06:34.938>at <00:06:35.093>Cosin <00:06:35.249>two <00:06:35.405>is

183
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<00:06:35.805>to <00:06:36.085>study <00:06:36.365>version <00:06:36.645>control <00:06:36.925>data, <00:06:37.205>right?

184
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<00:06:38.605>So <00:06:38.760>we <00:06:38.916>drag <00:06:39.071>it <00:06:39.227>out <00:06:39.382>because <00:06:39.538>it's <00:06:39.693>perfect <00:06:39.849>behavioral <00:06:40.005>data.

185
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<00:06:41.705>And <00:06:41.860>there <00:06:42.016>you <00:06:42.171>see <00:06:42.327>a <00:06:42.482>lot <00:06:42.638>of <00:06:42.793>patterns <00:06:42.949>that <00:06:43.104>kind

186
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<00:06:43.605>of <00:06:43.780>tell <00:06:43.955>an <00:06:44.130>organizational <00:06:44.305>story <00:06:44.480>might <00:06:44.655>even <00:06:44.830>tell <00:06:45.005>something

187
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<00:06:46.165>about <00:06:46.477>the <00:06:46.789>team <00:06:47.101>dynamics.

188
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<00:06:47.665>So <00:06:47.805>typical <00:06:47.945>things <00:06:48.085>are, <00:06:48.225>um, <00:06:48.365>if <00:06:48.505>you <00:06:48.645>lack <00:06:48.785>a <00:06:48.925>proper <00:06:49.065>alignment

189
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<00:06:51.525>between <00:06:51.921>your <00:06:52.317>team <00:06:52.713>structure

190
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<00:06:53.225>and <00:06:53.380>architecture, <00:06:53.536>what <00:06:53.691>you <00:06:53.847>see <00:06:54.002>is <00:06:54.158>a <00:06:54.313>lot <00:06:54.469>of <00:06:54.625>intersection

191
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<00:06:56.105>and <00:06:56.331>a <00:06:56.558>lot <00:06:56.785>of <00:06:57.012>overlapping <00:06:57.239>work

192
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<00:06:57.365>between <00:06:57.671>people <00:06:57.977>and <00:06:58.283>different <00:06:58.589>teams.

193
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<00:06:59.345>That's <00:06:59.625>reflected <00:06:59.905>in <00:07:00.185>me <00:07:00.465>control <00:07:00.745>data.

194
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<00:07:01.675>What <00:07:01.791>you <00:07:01.908>also <00:07:02.025>tend <00:07:02.141>to <00:07:02.258>see <00:07:02.375>is <00:07:02.491>stuff <00:07:02.608>like, <00:07:02.725>um, <00:07:02.841>the <00:07:02.958>lone <00:07:03.075>wolf,

195
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<00:07:06.095>which <00:07:06.328>is <00:07:06.561>like <00:07:06.795>a <00:07:07.028>community <00:07:07.261>smell, <00:07:07.495>right?

196
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<00:07:08.465>So <00:07:08.620>one <00:07:08.776>person, <00:07:08.931>they <00:07:09.087>read <00:07:09.242>all <00:07:09.398>the <00:07:09.553>coding, <00:07:09.709>one <00:07:09.864>subsystem,

197
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<00:07:11.505>no <00:07:11.672>one <00:07:11.839>else <00:07:12.006>is <00:07:12.173>allowed <00:07:12.340>to <00:07:12.507>touch <00:07:12.675>it,

198
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<00:07:12.825>no <00:07:13.081>one <00:07:13.337>else <00:07:13.594>understands <00:07:13.851>it.

199
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<00:07:14.145>That's <00:07:14.344>something <00:07:14.544>that <00:07:14.745>can <00:07:14.945>become, <00:07:15.145>uh, <00:07:15.344>very <00:07:15.544>obvious,

200
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<00:07:16.265>but <00:07:16.440>it's <00:07:16.615>hard <00:07:16.789>to <00:07:16.965>tell <00:07:17.140>from <00:07:17.315>the <00:07:17.490>code <00:07:17.664>itself

201
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<00:07:18.485>because <00:07:18.640>the <00:07:18.796>code <00:07:18.951>itself, <00:07:19.107>it, <00:07:19.262>it <00:07:19.418>never <00:07:19.573>reveals <00:07:19.729>its <00:07:19.885>context.

202
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<00:07:22.785>That's <00:07:23.226>really <00:07:23.667>interesting.

203
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<00:07:23.805>I <00:07:23.937>think <00:07:24.069>you've <00:07:24.201>put <00:07:24.333>that <00:07:24.465>really <00:07:24.597>well.

204
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<00:07:24.805>'cause <00:07:24.979>that <00:07:25.153>was <00:07:25.327>something <00:07:25.501>that, <00:07:25.675>you <00:07:25.849>know,

205
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<00:07:26.065>it <00:07:26.220>made <00:07:26.376>me <00:07:26.531>reflect <00:07:26.687>a <00:07:26.842>little <00:07:26.998>bit <00:07:27.153>on <00:07:27.309>how <00:07:27.465>I,

206
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<00:07:27.945>how <00:07:28.072>I <00:07:28.199>might <00:07:28.326>write <00:07:28.454>code <00:07:28.581>and <00:07:28.708>if <00:07:28.835>I, <00:07:28.963>you <00:07:29.090>know, <00:07:29.217>if <00:07:29.344>I,

207
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<00:07:30.345>am <00:07:30.583>I <00:07:30.822>writing <00:07:31.060>this <00:07:31.299>so

208
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<00:07:31.405>that <00:07:31.560>somebody <00:07:31.716>else <00:07:31.871>can <00:07:32.027>consume <00:07:32.182>it <00:07:32.338>and <00:07:32.493>work <00:07:32.649>with <00:07:32.804>it?

209
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<00:07:33.365>Or <00:07:33.565>am <00:07:33.765>I <00:07:33.965>just <00:07:34.165>writing <00:07:34.365>this <00:07:34.565>for <00:07:34.765>myself?

210
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<00:07:35.065>Um, <00:07:35.298>now <00:07:35.531>I <00:07:35.765>just <00:07:35.998>wanted <00:07:36.231>to <00:07:36.465>sort

211
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<00:07:36.685>of <00:07:36.859>focus <00:07:37.034>a <00:07:37.209>little <00:07:37.384>bit <00:07:37.559>on <00:07:37.734>this <00:07:37.909>idea

212
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<00:07:38.045>of <00:07:38.225>this <00:07:38.405>debate <00:07:38.585>that <00:07:38.765>you're <00:07:38.945>trying <00:07:39.125>to <00:07:39.305>settle.

213
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<00:07:39.505>And <00:07:39.645>I <00:07:39.784>think <00:07:39.925>you <00:07:40.065>are <00:07:40.205>gonna <00:07:40.344>settle <00:07:40.485>it <00:07:40.625>with <00:07:40.765>your <00:07:40.905>empirical,

214
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<00:07:41.385>um, <00:07:41.703>uh, <00:07:42.021>uh, <00:07:42.339>data.

215
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<00:07:42.825>But <00:07:43.000>this <00:07:43.175>debate <00:07:43.349>of <00:07:43.525>of, <00:07:43.700>um, <00:07:43.875>speed <00:07:44.050>versus <00:07:44.224>quality,

216
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<00:07:46.615>where <00:07:46.811>do <00:07:47.008>you <00:07:47.204>think <00:07:47.401>it <00:07:47.597>came <00:07:47.794>from?

217
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<00:07:48.005>Because <00:07:48.238>it, <00:07:48.471>it <00:07:48.705>gets <00:07:48.938>attached <00:07:49.171>very <00:07:49.405>closely

218
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<00:07:50.145>to <00:07:50.378>things <00:07:50.611>like <00:07:50.844>Silicon <00:07:51.078>Valley, <00:07:51.311>the <00:07:51.544>idea

219
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<00:07:51.945>of <00:07:52.224>move <00:07:52.505>fast <00:07:52.784>and <00:07:53.065>break <00:07:53.344>things.

220
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<00:07:54.025>Um, <00:07:54.200>and <00:07:54.375>I <00:07:54.549>mean, <00:07:54.724>I <00:07:54.900>was <00:07:55.075>having <00:07:55.250>a <00:07:55.424>conversation

221
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<00:07:56.045>with <00:07:56.261>a <00:07:56.477>colleague <00:07:56.693>earlier <00:07:56.909>where <00:07:57.125>we <00:07:57.341>said,

222
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<00:07:57.555>what <00:07:57.718>do <00:07:57.882>they <00:07:58.045>really <00:07:58.209>mean <00:07:58.372>by <00:07:58.536>that?

223
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<00:07:58.705>Do <00:07:58.938>they <00:07:59.171>just <00:07:59.405>mean, <00:07:59.638>um, <00:07:59.871>move <00:08:00.104>fast

224
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<00:08:00.945>and <00:08:01.120>don't <00:08:01.295>worry <00:08:01.469>if <00:08:01.645>the <00:08:01.820>code <00:08:01.995>is <00:08:02.170>any <00:08:02.344>good?

225
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<00:08:02.785>Do <00:08:03.032>they <00:08:03.280>mean <00:08:03.527>move <00:08:03.775>fast

226
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<00:08:03.945>and <00:08:04.120>don't <00:08:04.295>worry <00:08:04.469>about <00:08:04.645>the <00:08:04.820>regulations <00:08:04.995>that <00:08:05.170>might <00:08:05.344>exist?

227
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<00:08:06.625>Um, <00:08:06.800>where, <00:08:06.975>where <00:08:07.150>do <00:08:07.325>you <00:08:07.500>think <00:08:07.675>it <00:08:07.850>came <00:08:08.025>from

228
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<00:08:08.785>and <00:08:08.960>is <00:08:09.135>it <00:08:09.310>changing <00:08:09.485>or <00:08:09.660>is <00:08:09.835>it <00:08:10.010>getting <00:08:10.185>worse?

229
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<00:08:13.945>So <00:08:14.178>that's, <00:08:14.411>uh, <00:08:14.645>like <00:08:14.878>two <00:08:15.111>interesting <00:08:15.344>questions.

230
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<00:08:16.265>Uh, <00:08:16.498>first, <00:08:16.731>where <00:08:16.965>did <00:08:17.198>it <00:08:17.431>come <00:08:17.664>from?

231
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<00:08:18.145>Uh, <00:08:18.300>I <00:08:18.456>think <00:08:18.611>it <00:08:18.767>comes <00:08:18.922>from <00:08:19.078>the <00:08:19.233>fact <00:08:19.389>that, <00:08:19.544>uh,

232
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<00:08:20.085>we <00:08:20.318>are <00:08:20.551>very <00:08:20.784>different <00:08:21.018>feedback <00:08:21.251>loops <00:08:21.484>for

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242
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<00:08:57.725>this <00:08:58.037>friction <00:08:58.349>and <00:08:58.661>problems

249
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<00:08:58.835>because <00:08:59.115>it <00:08:59.395>makes <00:08:59.675>it <00:08:59.955>non <00:09:00.235>obvious

250
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251
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<00:09:03.395>that <00:09:03.535>we <00:09:03.675>have <00:09:03.814>laid <00:09:03.954>out <00:09:04.095>a <00:09:04.235>bunch <00:09:04.375>of <00:09:04.515>future <00:09:04.655>landmines <00:09:04.795>there.

252
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<00:09:07.745>So <00:09:07.957>that's <00:09:08.169>one <00:09:08.382>part <00:09:08.594>of <00:09:08.807>it.

253
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<00:09:09.545>The <00:09:09.745>other <00:09:09.944>question, <00:09:10.145>uh, <00:09:10.344>I <00:09:10.545>really <00:09:10.745>like, <00:09:10.944>so,

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<00:09:13.145>or <00:09:13.378>is <00:09:13.611>something <00:09:13.845>changing <00:09:14.078>in <00:09:14.311>that <00:09:14.545>respect?

255
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<00:09:16.665>And <00:09:16.865>I <00:09:17.064>do <00:09:17.265>think <00:09:17.464>there <00:09:17.665>is <00:09:17.865>an <00:09:18.064>increased

256
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<00:09:18.645>awareness <00:09:19.040>of <00:09:19.437>technical <00:09:19.833>debt.

257
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<00:09:20.025>And <00:09:20.225>I <00:09:20.425>think <00:09:20.625>that <00:09:20.824>AI <00:09:21.025>is <00:09:21.225>accelerating <00:09:21.425>that

258
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<00:09:23.445>Interesting <00:09:23.645>Because <00:09:23.845>right <00:09:24.045>now <00:09:24.245>we <00:09:24.445>are <00:09:24.645>generating <00:09:24.845>more

259
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<00:09:25.845>code <00:09:26.020>than <00:09:26.195>ever <00:09:26.370>before <00:09:26.545>at <00:09:26.720>the <00:09:26.895>never <00:09:27.070>foster <00:09:27.245>pace.

260
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<00:09:31.205>that <00:09:31.438>maybe <00:09:31.671>if <00:09:31.905>we're <00:09:32.138>struggling <00:09:32.371>with <00:09:32.605>maintaining

262
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<00:09:33.525>what <00:09:33.699>we <00:09:33.875>already <00:09:34.050>have, <00:09:34.225>and <00:09:34.400>we're <00:09:34.574>now <00:09:34.750>increasing <00:09:34.925>that

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<00:09:36.865>by <00:09:37.130>in <00:09:37.396>order <00:09:37.661>of <00:09:37.926>magnitude,

264
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<00:09:38.645>I <00:09:38.785>mean <00:09:38.925>things <00:09:39.064>are <00:09:39.204>really <00:09:39.345>going <00:09:39.485>to <00:09:39.625>put <00:09:39.765>that <00:09:39.905>there <00:09:40.045>at.

265
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<00:09:40.665>So <00:09:40.839>I <00:09:41.015>think <00:09:41.189>that <00:09:41.365>for <00:09:41.540>the <00:09:41.714>years <00:09:41.890>to <00:09:42.064>come,

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<00:09:44.085>managing <00:09:44.260>technical <00:09:44.435>debt <00:09:44.610>is <00:09:44.785>no <00:09:44.960>longer <00:09:45.135>to <00:09:45.310>be <00:09:45.485>optional.

267
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<00:09:46.995>It's <00:09:47.228>going <00:09:47.461>to <00:09:47.695>be <00:09:47.928>about <00:09:48.161>organizational <00:09:48.395>survival.

268
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<00:09:49.665>That's <00:09:50.178>really <00:09:50.690>interesting.

269
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<00:09:51.085>'cause <00:09:51.212>I <00:09:51.339>think, <00:09:51.466>you <00:09:51.594>know, <00:09:51.721>my <00:09:51.848>next <00:09:51.975>topic <00:09:52.103>I <00:09:52.230>suppose <00:09:52.357>was <00:09:52.485>going

270
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<00:09:53.405>to <00:09:53.638>be <00:09:53.871>as <00:09:54.105>of <00:09:54.338>course <00:09:54.571>AI <00:09:54.805>we're,

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<00:09:55.245>we're <00:09:55.437>never <00:09:55.629>that <00:09:55.821>far <00:09:56.013>away <00:09:56.205>from <00:09:56.396>it.

272
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<00:09:56.625>And <00:09:56.780>because <00:09:56.936>I <00:09:57.091>think <00:09:57.247>for, <00:09:57.402>for <00:09:57.558>areas <00:09:57.713>like, <00:09:57.869>like <00:09:58.025>yours,

273
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<00:09:59.305>you <00:09:59.502>know, <00:09:59.701>there's <00:09:59.899>a, <00:10:00.097>there's <00:10:00.295>a <00:10:00.493>real, <00:10:00.691>um,

274
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<00:10:01.155>there's <00:10:01.310>an <00:10:01.466>assumption <00:10:01.621>that <00:10:01.777>you'll <00:10:01.932>think <00:10:02.088>AI <00:10:02.243>is <00:10:02.399>the <00:10:02.555>worst

275
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<00:10:03.645>thing <00:10:03.817>in <00:10:03.990>the <00:10:04.163>world <00:10:04.336>because <00:10:04.509>it's

276
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<00:10:04.605>essentially <00:10:04.857>creating <00:10:05.109>a <00:10:05.361>lot <00:10:05.613>of <00:10:05.865>clutter.

277
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<00:10:06.305>Um, <00:10:06.460>you <00:10:06.616>know, <00:10:06.771>I, <00:10:06.927>I <00:10:07.082>recently, <00:10:07.238>I <00:10:07.393>was <00:10:07.549>building <00:10:07.704>something

278
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<00:10:09.625>and <00:10:09.858>I <00:10:10.091>was <00:10:10.325>essentially <00:10:10.558>vibe <00:10:10.791>coding <00:10:11.025>it.

279
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<00:10:12.085>I <00:10:12.351>was <00:10:12.617>essentially <00:10:12.884>working <00:10:13.150>in <00:10:13.417>cursor

280
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<00:10:13.585>and <00:10:13.818>it <00:10:14.051>was <00:10:14.285>AI <00:10:14.518>assisted <00:10:14.751>coding, <00:10:14.985>right?

281
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<00:10:15.365>I <00:10:15.565>heard <00:10:15.765>somebody <00:10:15.965>call <00:10:16.165>it <00:10:16.365>augmented <00:10:16.565>coding <00:10:16.765>earlier.

282
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<00:10:17.445>I <00:10:17.611>like <00:10:17.778>that <00:10:17.944>it <00:10:18.111>makes <00:10:18.277>it <00:10:18.444>sound <00:10:18.610>more <00:10:18.776>official.

283
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<00:10:19.145>Um, <00:10:19.378>but <00:10:19.611>essentially <00:10:19.845>what <00:10:20.078>I <00:10:20.311>noticed <00:10:20.545>is

284
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<00:10:21.325>that <00:10:21.523>every <00:10:21.721>time <00:10:21.919>I <00:10:22.117>made <00:10:22.314>a <00:10:22.513>decision

285
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<00:10:22.645>that <00:10:22.878>was <00:10:23.111>diverting <00:10:23.345>from <00:10:23.578>my <00:10:23.811>original <00:10:24.045>decision,

286
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<00:10:24.905>it <00:10:25.079>could <00:10:25.255>be <00:10:25.430>something <00:10:25.605>very <00:10:25.780>simple <00:10:25.954>like, <00:10:26.130>uh, <00:10:26.305>in,

287
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<00:10:26.945>in <00:10:27.120>next <00:10:27.295>Js <00:10:27.470>instead <00:10:27.645>of <00:10:27.820>using <00:10:27.995>an <00:10:28.170>API <00:10:28.345>route,

288
00:10:30.045 --> 00:10:31.605
<00:10:30.045>I <00:10:30.324>would <00:10:30.604>use <00:10:30.885>a <00:10:31.165>server <00:10:31.444>action.

289
00:10:31.675 --> 00:10:34.725
<00:10:31.675>Something <00:10:31.849>very <00:10:32.025>simple <00:10:32.199>where <00:10:32.375>effectively <00:10:32.550>not <00:10:32.724>much <00:10:32.900>has <00:10:33.074>changed

290
00:10:35.505 --> 00:10:38.085
<00:10:35.505>the <00:10:35.705>amount <00:10:35.905>of <00:10:36.105>files <00:10:36.305>and <00:10:36.505>functions <00:10:36.705>and <00:10:36.905>references

291
00:10:38.145 --> 00:10:40.365
<00:10:38.145>and <00:10:38.319>imports <00:10:38.495>that <00:10:38.670>had <00:10:38.845>left <00:10:39.020>behind <00:10:39.194>when <00:10:39.370>I <00:10:39.545>made

292
00:10:40.365 --> 00:10:42.205
<00:10:40.365>that <00:10:40.831>change <00:10:41.298>was <00:10:41.765>staggering.

293
00:10:42.345 --> 00:10:44.765
<00:10:42.345>It <00:10:42.545>was, <00:10:42.745>there <00:10:42.945>was <00:10:43.145>so <00:10:43.345>much <00:10:43.545>dead <00:10:43.745>code

294
00:10:44.915 --> 00:10:46.125
<00:10:44.915>that <00:10:45.187>was <00:10:45.459>just <00:10:45.731>being <00:10:46.004>created.

295
00:10:46.385 --> 00:10:48.805
<00:10:46.385>And <00:10:46.525>for <00:10:46.665>somebody <00:10:46.805>like <00:10:46.944>you, <00:10:47.085>that's <00:10:47.225>not <00:10:47.365>a <00:10:47.505>bad <00:10:47.645>thing, <00:10:47.785>right?

296
00:10:48.805 --> 00:10:50.805
<00:10:48.805>Because <00:10:49.038>that's <00:10:49.271>actually <00:10:49.505>an <00:10:49.738>opportunity <00:10:49.971>for <00:10:50.204>you

297
00:10:50.805 --> 00:10:52.925
<00:10:50.805>to <00:10:51.084>teach <00:10:51.364>these <00:10:51.645>organizations, <00:10:51.925>these <00:10:52.204>programmers

298
00:10:52.985 --> 00:10:56.205
<00:10:52.985>and <00:10:53.140>users <00:10:53.296>even <00:10:53.451>about <00:10:53.607>how <00:10:53.762>what <00:10:53.918>the <00:10:54.073>problem <00:10:54.229>is <00:10:54.385>here.

299
00:10:56.385 --> 00:10:59.965
<00:10:56.385>Um, <00:10:56.540>but <00:10:56.696>but <00:10:56.851>yourself, <00:10:57.007>do <00:10:57.162>you, <00:10:57.318>do <00:10:57.473>you <00:10:57.629>vibe <00:10:57.785>code?

300
00:11:00.045 --> 00:11:01.965
<00:11:00.045>I <00:11:00.185>mean, <00:11:00.324>it's, <00:11:00.464>it's <00:11:00.604>a <00:11:00.745>topic <00:11:00.885>that, <00:11:01.025>um, <00:11:01.165>we're <00:11:01.305>not <00:11:01.444>sort

301
00:11:01.965 --> 00:11:03.725
<00:11:01.965>of <00:11:02.165>diverting <00:11:02.365>too <00:11:02.565>far <00:11:02.765>away <00:11:02.965>from <00:11:03.165>you <00:11:03.365>us

302
00:11:03.725 --> 00:11:05.845
<00:11:03.725>because <00:11:03.958>like <00:11:04.191>I <00:11:04.425>said, <00:11:04.658>it's <00:11:04.891>something <00:11:05.125>where

303
00:11:06.465 --> 00:11:08.285
<00:11:06.465>in <00:11:06.640>theory <00:11:06.815>I <00:11:06.990>would <00:11:07.165>imagine <00:11:07.340>you <00:11:07.515>would <00:11:07.690>hate <00:11:07.865>it

304
00:11:08.475 --> 00:11:11.445
<00:11:08.475>because <00:11:08.615>it <00:11:08.755>would, <00:11:08.895>it <00:11:09.035>would <00:11:09.175>be <00:11:09.315>just <00:11:09.455>a <00:11:09.595>very <00:11:09.735>messy <00:11:09.875>coding

305
00:11:11.625 --> 00:11:14.045
<00:11:11.625>that's <00:11:11.858>creating <00:11:12.091>lots <00:11:12.325>of, <00:11:12.558>uh, <00:11:12.791>redundant <00:11:13.025>code.

306
00:11:14.105 --> 00:11:15.405
<00:11:14.105>But <00:11:14.300>what <00:11:14.495>are <00:11:14.690>your <00:11:14.885>thoughts <00:11:15.079>on <00:11:15.275>it?

307
00:11:15.525 --> 00:11:17.005
<00:11:15.525>'cause <00:11:15.673>you <00:11:15.821>said, <00:11:15.968>you <00:11:16.117>seem <00:11:16.265>to <00:11:16.413>say <00:11:16.561>actually <00:11:16.709>it's <00:11:16.857>a,

308
00:11:17.195 --> 00:11:18.325
<00:11:17.195>it's <00:11:17.534>a <00:11:17.873>positive, <00:11:18.212>right?

309
00:11:18.325 --> 00:11:20.325
<00:11:18.325>That <00:11:18.558>more <00:11:18.791>AI <00:11:19.025>code <00:11:19.258>means <00:11:19.491>people <00:11:19.725>learn.

310
00:11:21.505 --> 00:11:23.045
<00:11:21.505>How <00:11:21.703>do <00:11:21.901>they <00:11:22.098>learn <00:11:22.297>if <00:11:22.495>they <00:11:22.693>don't <00:11:22.891>know

311
00:11:23.245 --> 00:11:24.485
<00:11:23.245>that <00:11:23.524>they're <00:11:23.803>creating <00:11:24.082>dead <00:11:24.361>code?

312
00:11:26.705 --> 00:11:31.005
<00:11:26.705>So, <00:11:26.845>uh, <00:11:26.985>do <00:11:27.125>I <00:11:27.265>wipe <00:11:27.405>code? <00:11:27.545>Uh, <00:11:27.685>I <00:11:27.825>have <00:11:27.965>tried <00:11:28.105>it.

313
00:11:31.325 --> 00:11:34.005
<00:11:31.325>I <00:11:31.452>forced <00:11:31.579>myself <00:11:31.706>to <00:11:31.834>do <00:11:31.961>it <00:11:32.088>because <00:11:32.215>I <00:11:32.343>do <00:11:32.470>talks <00:11:32.597>on <00:11:32.725>AI

314
00:11:34.005 --> 00:11:36.525
<00:11:34.005>and <00:11:34.145>I <00:11:34.285>do <00:11:34.425>talks <00:11:34.564>on <00:11:34.705>AI <00:11:34.845>coding <00:11:34.985>and <00:11:35.125>I <00:11:35.265>code <00:11:35.405>qualities.

315
00:11:36.565 --> 00:11:38.485
<00:11:36.565>I <00:11:36.765>think <00:11:36.965>I <00:11:37.165>really <00:11:37.365>to <00:11:37.565>experience <00:11:37.765>this <00:11:37.965>myself,

316
00:11:39.385 --> 00:11:42.525
<00:11:39.385>and, <00:11:39.585>uh, <00:11:39.785>yes, <00:11:39.985>I, <00:11:40.185>I <00:11:40.385>dislike <00:11:40.585>it, <00:11:40.785>uh,

317
00:11:42.525 --> 00:11:43.885
<00:11:42.525>because <00:11:42.769>I'm <00:11:43.014>finding <00:11:43.259>I'm <00:11:43.504>not <00:11:43.749>really

318
00:11:44.125 --> 00:11:45.485
<00:11:44.125>learning <00:11:44.431>anything <00:11:44.737>by <00:11:45.043>wipe <00:11:45.349>coding.

319
00:11:46.245 --> 00:11:47.845
<00:11:46.245>I <00:11:46.445>mean, <00:11:46.645>I <00:11:46.845>might <00:11:47.045>to <00:11:47.245>solve <00:11:47.445>a <00:11:47.645>problem,

320
00:11:47.945 --> 00:11:49.005
<00:11:47.945>but <00:11:48.183>I <00:11:48.422>haven't <00:11:48.660>learned <00:11:48.899>anything.

321
00:11:49.025 --> 00:11:51.885
<00:11:49.025>And <00:11:49.305>to <00:11:49.584>me <00:11:49.865>that's, <00:11:50.145>I <00:11:50.425>mean,

322
00:11:51.885 --> 00:11:53.885
<00:11:51.885>if <00:11:52.040>I <00:11:52.196>think <00:11:52.351>about <00:11:52.507>when <00:11:52.662>should <00:11:52.818>I <00:11:52.973>use <00:11:53.129>wipe <00:11:53.285>coding?

323
00:11:54.045 --> 00:11:55.245
<00:11:54.045>I <00:11:54.405>mean, <00:11:54.765>for <00:11:55.125>prototyping,

324
00:11:55.285 --> 00:11:56.765
<00:11:55.285>I <00:11:55.507>can <00:11:55.728>imagine <00:11:55.951>it's, <00:11:56.173>it's <00:11:56.395>pretty <00:11:56.617>good.

325
00:11:56.795 --> 00:11:58.245
<00:11:56.795>Doesn't <00:11:57.055>matter <00:11:57.317>if <00:11:57.578>it's <00:11:57.839>not <00:11:58.100>perfect.

326
00:11:59.185 --> 00:12:01.445
<00:11:59.185>But <00:11:59.301>the <00:11:59.418>thing <00:11:59.535>is <00:11:59.651>with <00:11:59.768>the <00:11:59.885>prototype, <00:12:00.001>what <00:12:00.118>I <00:12:00.234>want <00:12:00.351>to <00:12:00.468>get <00:12:00.584>out

327
00:12:01.445 --> 00:12:02.765
<00:12:01.445>of <00:12:01.682>it, <00:12:01.920>this <00:12:02.157>information, <00:12:02.395>I <00:12:02.633>want

328
00:12:02.765 --> 00:12:04.045
<00:12:02.765>to <00:12:02.929>want <00:12:03.094>it <00:12:03.258>to <00:12:03.423>be <00:12:03.587>a <00:12:03.752>learning <00:12:03.916>journey.

329
00:12:04.465 --> 00:12:05.685
<00:12:04.465>And <00:12:04.739>that's <00:12:05.014>not <00:12:05.288>happening <00:12:05.563>when

330
00:12:05.705 --> 00:12:07.205
<00:12:05.705>I'm <00:12:06.042>shortcutting <00:12:06.380>the <00:12:06.717>feedback <00:12:07.055>loop.

331
00:12:07.985 --> 00:12:10.245
<00:12:07.985>So <00:12:08.160>I'm <00:12:08.335>not <00:12:08.510>a <00:12:08.685>big <00:12:08.860>fan <00:12:09.035>of <00:12:09.210>wipe <00:12:09.385>coding.

332
00:12:10.865 --> 00:12:13.285
<00:12:10.865>Uh, <00:12:11.005>that <00:12:11.145>said, <00:12:11.285>I <00:12:11.425>think <00:12:11.565>it <00:12:11.705>has <00:12:11.845>a <00:12:11.985>lot <00:12:12.125>of <00:12:12.265>uses.

333
00:12:13.675 --> 00:12:16.725
<00:12:13.675>What <00:12:13.814>excites <00:12:13.954>me <00:12:14.094>about <00:12:14.234>AI <00:12:14.375>is <00:12:14.515>that <00:12:14.655>we <00:12:14.795>could, <00:12:14.935>uh, <00:12:15.074>rethink

334
00:12:16.725 --> 00:12:17.765
<00:12:16.725>and <00:12:17.193>repurpose <00:12:17.661>AI

335
00:12:18.145 --> 00:12:21.005
<00:12:18.145>and <00:12:18.300>use <00:12:18.456>it <00:12:18.611>to <00:12:18.767>instead <00:12:18.922>help <00:12:19.078>us <00:12:19.233>simplify <00:12:19.389>existing <00:12:19.545>code.

336
00:12:21.305 --> 00:12:24.085
<00:12:21.305>That's <00:12:21.479>what <00:12:21.655>I <00:12:21.829>think <00:12:22.005>is <00:12:22.180>the <00:12:22.354>big <00:12:22.530>underexplored, <00:12:22.704>uh,

337
00:12:24.085 --> 00:12:25.205
<00:12:24.085>opportunity <00:12:24.589>with <00:12:25.093>ai.

338
00:12:25.205 --> 00:12:26.925
<00:12:25.205>Instead <00:12:25.438>of <00:12:25.671>focusing <00:12:25.905>on <00:12:26.138>generating <00:12:26.371>new <00:12:26.605>code,

339
00:12:27.095 --> 00:12:30.005
<00:12:27.095>which <00:12:27.250>is <00:12:27.406>a <00:12:27.561>very <00:12:27.717>small <00:12:27.872>part <00:12:28.028>of <00:12:28.183>the <00:12:28.339>most <00:12:28.495>earthquake,

340
00:12:30.535 --> 00:12:33.165
<00:12:30.535>let's <00:12:30.690>repurpose <00:12:30.846>it <00:12:31.001>and <00:12:31.157>use <00:12:31.312>it <00:12:31.468>to <00:12:31.623>understand <00:12:31.779>existing <00:12:31.935>code.

341
00:12:33.285 --> 00:12:35.085
<00:12:33.285>I <00:12:33.459>think <00:12:33.635>that <00:12:33.810>will <00:12:33.985>be <00:12:34.160>a <00:12:34.334>big <00:12:34.510>win. <00:12:34.685>Yeah,

342
00:12:35.085 --> 00:12:36.645
<00:12:35.085>And <00:12:35.240>I <00:12:35.396>think, <00:12:35.551>I <00:12:35.707>think <00:12:35.862>that's <00:12:36.018>very <00:12:36.173>interesting <00:12:36.329>as <00:12:36.485>well

343
00:12:36.645 --> 00:12:38.765
<00:12:36.645>because <00:12:36.819>it's, <00:12:36.995>uh, <00:12:37.170>it's <00:12:37.345>really <00:12:37.520>tapping <00:12:37.694>into <00:12:37.870>the <00:12:38.045>nuance,

344
00:12:38.785 --> 00:12:41.085
<00:12:38.785>you <00:12:38.912>know, <00:12:39.039>of <00:12:39.166>how <00:12:39.294>we <00:12:39.421>use <00:12:39.548>ai <00:12:39.675>that <00:12:39.803>it's, <00:12:39.930>for <00:12:40.057>some <00:12:40.185>people,

345
00:12:41.195 --> 00:12:42.725
<00:12:41.195>it's <00:12:41.424>a <00:12:41.654>great <00:12:41.883>tool <00:12:42.113>to <00:12:42.342>build <00:12:42.572>something

346
00:12:42.785 --> 00:12:44.725
<00:12:42.785>and <00:12:43.018>they <00:12:43.251>maybe <00:12:43.485>have <00:12:43.718>no <00:12:43.951>technical <00:12:44.185>knowledge

347
00:12:44.725 --> 00:12:46.005
<00:12:44.725>whatsoever, <00:12:44.955>and <00:12:45.185>that's <00:12:45.416>not <00:12:45.646>the <00:12:45.877>goal.

348
00:12:46.225 --> 00:12:47.405
<00:12:46.225>But <00:12:46.402>like <00:12:46.579>you're <00:12:46.756>saying, <00:12:46.933>for <00:12:47.110>other <00:12:47.287>people,

349
00:12:47.585 --> 00:12:49.685
<00:12:47.585>if <00:12:47.740>the <00:12:47.896>goal <00:12:48.051>is <00:12:48.207>perhaps, <00:12:48.362>uh, <00:12:48.518>that <00:12:48.673>we <00:12:48.829>go <00:12:48.985>and,

350
00:12:49.705 --> 00:12:50.725
<00:12:49.705>and <00:12:49.934>learn <00:12:50.164>about <00:12:50.393>a <00:12:50.623>concept

351
00:12:50.905 --> 00:12:53.085
<00:12:50.905>and <00:12:51.105>we <00:12:51.305>learn <00:12:51.505>for <00:12:51.704>that <00:12:51.905>long <00:12:52.105>term <00:12:52.305>knowledge,

352
00:12:53.275 --> 00:12:55.125
<00:12:53.275>then <00:12:53.555>vibe <00:12:53.834>coding <00:12:54.115>is <00:12:54.395>shortcutting <00:12:54.675>that.

353
00:12:55.125 --> 00:12:57.525
<00:12:55.125>And <00:12:55.265>I <00:12:55.405>think <00:12:55.545>that's <00:12:55.685>something <00:12:55.825>that <00:12:55.965>there's, <00:12:56.105>it's <00:12:56.245>not <00:12:56.385>to <00:12:56.525>say

354
00:12:57.525 --> 00:12:59.205
<00:12:57.525>that <00:12:57.699>you <00:12:57.875>don't <00:12:58.050>like <00:12:58.225>vibe <00:12:58.400>coding <00:12:58.574>if <00:12:58.750>you <00:12:58.925>say

355
00:12:59.205 --> 00:13:01.005
<00:12:59.205>that <00:12:59.405>it's <00:12:59.605>just <00:12:59.805>the <00:13:00.005>reality <00:13:00.205>of <00:13:00.405>its <00:13:00.605>limits.

356
00:13:01.545 --> 00:13:04.805
<00:13:01.545>Um, <00:13:01.685>so <00:13:01.824>if <00:13:01.964>we <00:13:02.104>were <00:13:02.245>to <00:13:02.385>then <00:13:02.525>think <00:13:02.665>about <00:13:02.805>that <00:13:02.944>divide

357
00:13:04.805 --> 00:13:07.365
<00:13:04.805>between <00:13:05.084>the <00:13:05.364>developers <00:13:05.645>and <00:13:05.925>the <00:13:06.204>stakeholders,

358
00:13:07.545 --> 00:13:09.525
<00:13:07.545>or <00:13:07.700>if <00:13:07.856>you <00:13:08.011>imagine <00:13:08.167>put <00:13:08.322>it <00:13:08.478>in <00:13:08.633>simple <00:13:08.789>terms, <00:13:08.944>the,

359
00:13:09.545 --> 00:13:12.005
<00:13:09.545>the <00:13:09.745>developers <00:13:09.944>and <00:13:10.145>then <00:13:10.344>the <00:13:10.545>management <00:13:10.745>team, <00:13:10.944>um,

360
00:13:12.755 --> 00:13:14.365
<00:13:12.755>have <00:13:12.988>you <00:13:13.221>noticed <00:13:13.455>anything <00:13:13.688>in <00:13:13.921>terms <00:13:14.155>of

361
00:13:15.075 --> 00:13:17.765
<00:13:15.075>they <00:13:15.230>can <00:13:15.386>now <00:13:15.541>almost <00:13:15.697>play <00:13:15.852>the <00:13:16.008>role <00:13:16.163>of <00:13:16.319>a <00:13:16.475>developer.

362
00:13:17.765 --> 00:13:19.725
<00:13:17.765>If <00:13:17.965>they <00:13:18.165>were <00:13:18.365>to <00:13:18.564>use <00:13:18.765>AI <00:13:18.965>assisted <00:13:19.165>coding

363
00:13:19.865 --> 00:13:23.485
<00:13:19.865>or, <00:13:20.005>uh, <00:13:20.145>an <00:13:20.285>AI <00:13:20.425>assisted <00:13:20.565>IDE, <00:13:20.705>perhaps <00:13:20.845>they <00:13:20.985>could <00:13:21.125>then <00:13:21.265>go

364
00:13:23.665 --> 00:13:26.285
<00:13:23.665>and <00:13:23.805>experience <00:13:23.944>some <00:13:24.084>of <00:13:24.224>what <00:13:24.365>it's <00:13:24.505>like <00:13:24.645>to <00:13:24.785>be <00:13:24.925>a <00:13:25.064>developer.

365
00:13:26.865 --> 00:13:28.845
<00:13:26.865>Are <00:13:27.065>you <00:13:27.265>seeing <00:13:27.465>any <00:13:27.665>shift <00:13:27.865>in <00:13:28.065>the <00:13:28.265>attitudes

366
00:13:28.845 --> 00:13:31.645
<00:13:28.845>of <00:13:28.972>managers <00:13:29.099>in <00:13:29.226>terms <00:13:29.354>of, <00:13:29.481>are <00:13:29.608>they, <00:13:29.735>did <00:13:29.863>they <00:13:29.990>see <00:13:30.117>the <00:13:30.245>benefit

367
00:13:31.785 --> 00:13:34.685
<00:13:31.785>of <00:13:31.959>actually <00:13:32.135>trying <00:13:32.310>to <00:13:32.485>make <00:13:32.660>this <00:13:32.834>code <00:13:33.010>more <00:13:33.185>efficient?

368
00:13:34.985 --> 00:13:36.805
<00:13:34.985>Um, <00:13:35.185>or <00:13:35.385>do <00:13:35.585>they <00:13:35.785>just <00:13:35.985>say <00:13:36.185>to <00:13:36.385>me,

369
00:13:36.995 --> 00:13:38.445
<00:13:36.995>it's <00:13:37.256>only <00:13:37.517>about <00:13:37.778>the <00:13:38.039>bottom <00:13:38.300>line

370
00:13:38.545 --> 00:13:40.525
<00:13:38.545>and <00:13:38.778>there's, <00:13:39.011>there's <00:13:39.245>no <00:13:39.478>movement <00:13:39.711>there, <00:13:39.944>but

371
00:13:42.495 --> 00:13:44.045
<00:13:42.495>Death <00:13:42.843>I <00:13:43.192>haven't <00:13:43.541>observed <00:13:43.890>yet.

372
00:13:44.285 --> 00:13:47.325
<00:13:44.285>I <00:13:44.401>think <00:13:44.518>it's <00:13:44.635>so <00:13:44.751>new <00:13:44.868>that <00:13:44.985>I <00:13:45.101>might <00:13:45.218>just <00:13:45.334>not <00:13:45.451>have <00:13:45.568>seen <00:13:45.685>it.

373
00:13:47.795 --> 00:13:51.205
<00:13:47.795>What <00:13:47.911>I <00:13:48.028>tend <00:13:48.145>to <00:13:48.261>see <00:13:48.378>at <00:13:48.495>the <00:13:48.611>management <00:13:48.728>level <00:13:48.844>is <00:13:48.961>that <00:13:49.078>AI <00:13:49.194>is,

374
00:13:52.405 --> 00:13:55.285
<00:13:52.405>I <00:13:52.560>think <00:13:52.716>a <00:13:52.871>lot <00:13:53.027>of <00:13:53.182>managers <00:13:53.338>have <00:13:53.493>unrealistic <00:13:53.649>expectations <00:13:53.805>on

375
00:13:55.285 --> 00:13:57.445
<00:13:55.285>what <00:13:55.459>AI <00:13:55.635>can <00:13:55.810>do <00:13:55.985>for <00:13:56.160>software <00:13:56.334>ment <00:13:56.510>in <00:13:56.685>particular,

376
00:13:58.045 --> 00:13:59.125
<00:13:58.045>everyone <00:13:58.288>has <00:13:58.531>experience <00:13:58.774>with <00:13:59.017>it,

377
00:13:59.125 --> 00:14:01.925
<00:13:59.125>but <00:13:59.325>there <00:13:59.525>is <00:13:59.725>still <00:13:59.925>this <00:14:00.125>Mac <00:14:00.325>yeah, <00:14:00.525>id

378
00:14:01.925 --> 00:14:04.885
<00:14:01.925>that <00:14:02.080>AI <00:14:02.236>will <00:14:02.391>somehow <00:14:02.547>make <00:14:02.702>all <00:14:02.858>developers <00:14:03.013>twice <00:14:03.169>as <00:14:03.324>quick.

379
00:14:05.465 --> 00:14:07.125
<00:14:05.465>And <00:14:05.698>I <00:14:05.931>simply <00:14:06.165>don't <00:14:06.398>see <00:14:06.631>that <00:14:06.865>happen

380
00:14:07.155 --> 00:14:08.445
<00:14:07.155>with <00:14:07.387>the <00:14:07.619>current <00:14:07.851>state <00:14:08.083>of <00:14:08.316>ai.

381
00:14:08.825 --> 00:14:13.165
<00:14:08.825>Uh, <00:14:08.941>but <00:14:09.058>I <00:14:09.175>do <00:14:09.291>like <00:14:09.408>the <00:14:09.525>idea <00:14:09.641>of <00:14:09.758>AI <00:14:09.875>kind <00:14:09.991>of <00:14:10.108>democratizing, <00:14:10.225>uh,

382
00:14:13.845 --> 00:14:15.445
<00:14:13.845>prototyping <00:14:14.195>and <00:14:14.545>the <00:14:14.895>feature <00:14:15.245>exploration.

383
00:14:15.985 --> 00:14:18.845
<00:14:15.985>So <00:14:16.140>I <00:14:16.296>can <00:14:16.451>easily <00:14:16.607>imagine <00:14:16.762>as <00:14:16.918>a <00:14:17.073>non-coding <00:14:17.229>product <00:14:17.385>manager,

384
00:14:18.845 --> 00:14:20.245
<00:14:18.845>having <00:14:19.160>access <00:14:19.475>to <00:14:19.790>these <00:14:20.105>tools

385
00:14:20.245 --> 00:14:22.565
<00:14:20.245>that <00:14:20.445>we <00:14:20.645>have <00:14:20.845>today <00:14:21.045>is, <00:14:21.245>is <00:14:21.445>wonderful, <00:14:21.645>right?

386
00:14:22.565 --> 00:14:24.045
<00:14:22.565>Because <00:14:22.755>I <00:14:22.945>can <00:14:23.135>do <00:14:23.326>my <00:14:23.516>proof <00:14:23.706>of <00:14:23.896>concept,

387
00:14:24.485 --> 00:14:25.845
<00:14:24.485>I <00:14:24.689>can <00:14:24.893>show <00:14:25.097>it <00:14:25.301>with <00:14:25.505>working <00:14:25.709>code.

388
00:14:26.485 --> 00:14:28.325
<00:14:26.485>I <00:14:26.685>think <00:14:26.885>that <00:14:27.085>the <00:14:27.285>extent <00:14:27.485>of <00:14:27.685>it, <00:14:27.885>it,

389
00:14:28.345 --> 00:14:30.285
<00:14:28.345>we <00:14:28.578>can <00:14:28.811>make <00:14:29.045>the <00:14:29.278>communication <00:14:29.511>between <00:14:29.745>development

390
00:14:30.285 --> 00:14:31.765
<00:14:30.285>and <00:14:30.617>product <00:14:30.951>much, <00:14:31.284>much <00:14:31.617>easier.

391
00:14:32.305 --> 00:14:34.685
<00:14:32.305>So <00:14:32.444>I <00:14:32.584>think <00:14:32.724>that's <00:14:32.864>one <00:14:33.005>of <00:14:33.145>the <00:14:33.285>positive <00:14:33.425>directions <00:14:33.564>I'm <00:14:33.704>saying.

392
00:14:35.235 --> 00:14:36.765
<00:14:35.235>Yeah, <00:14:35.407>it's <00:14:35.579>very <00:14:35.751>interesting. <00:14:35.923>I <00:14:36.095>think <00:14:36.267>it <00:14:36.439>will <00:14:36.612>be,

393
00:14:36.905 --> 00:14:38.125
<00:14:36.905>it <00:14:37.061>will <00:14:37.218>be <00:14:37.375>something <00:14:37.532>we <00:14:37.689>need <00:14:37.846>to <00:14:38.003>maybe

394
00:14:38.125 --> 00:14:39.445
<00:14:38.125>revisit <00:14:38.323>in <00:14:38.521>a <00:14:38.719>couple <00:14:38.917>of <00:14:39.115>years, <00:14:39.313>right?

395
00:14:39.445 --> 00:14:42.085
<00:14:39.445>Where <00:14:39.620>we <00:14:39.795>see <00:14:39.970>these <00:14:40.145>organizations <00:14:40.320>actually <00:14:40.495>shifting <00:14:40.670>in <00:14:40.845>their,

396
00:14:42.175 --> 00:14:43.725
<00:14:42.175>their <00:14:42.523>cultures <00:14:42.872>and <00:14:43.221>their <00:14:43.570>attitudes.

397
00:14:43.785 --> 00:14:45.685
<00:14:43.785>Um, <00:14:43.959>but, <00:14:44.135>but <00:14:44.310>it <00:14:44.485>definitely <00:14:44.660>made <00:14:44.834>me <00:14:45.010>think <00:14:45.185>that,

398
00:14:45.685 --> 00:14:47.405
<00:14:45.685>like <00:14:45.964>the <00:14:46.244>word <00:14:46.525>you <00:14:46.805>used <00:14:47.084>democratization.

399
00:14:47.585 --> 00:14:49.165
<00:14:47.585>And <00:14:47.785>I <00:14:47.985>think <00:14:48.185>it's, <00:14:48.385>you <00:14:48.585>know, <00:14:48.785>so <00:14:48.985>important

400
00:14:49.165 --> 00:14:50.485
<00:14:49.165>that <00:14:49.363>people <00:14:49.560>are <00:14:49.759>able <00:14:49.957>to <00:14:50.155>access <00:14:50.353>it.

401
00:14:50.635 --> 00:14:53.165
<00:14:50.635>It's <00:14:50.775>just <00:14:50.915>whether <00:14:51.055>or <00:14:51.194>not <00:14:51.335>they <00:14:51.475>actually <00:14:51.615>learn, <00:14:51.755>um, <00:14:51.895>the, <00:14:52.035>the,

402
00:14:53.185 --> 00:14:55.325
<00:14:53.185>the <00:14:53.418>technicals <00:14:53.651>or <00:14:53.885>enough <00:14:54.118>about <00:14:54.351>the <00:14:54.584>technicals

403
00:14:55.465 --> 00:14:57.285
<00:14:55.465>to <00:14:55.665>actually <00:14:55.865>understand <00:14:56.065>what <00:14:56.265>you're <00:14:56.465>trying <00:14:56.665>to <00:14:56.865>achieve.

404
00:14:57.385 --> 00:14:58.445
<00:14:57.385>So <00:14:57.623>here's <00:14:57.862>an <00:14:58.100>interesting <00:14:58.339>one.

405
00:14:58.505 --> 00:15:00.805
<00:14:58.505>If <00:14:58.632>you, <00:14:58.759>if <00:14:58.886>you <00:14:59.014>were <00:14:59.141>in <00:14:59.268>a <00:14:59.395>team <00:14:59.523>where <00:14:59.650>you <00:14:59.777>are <00:14:59.905>feeling

406
00:15:00.805 --> 00:15:02.685
<00:15:00.805>that <00:15:01.005>pressure <00:15:01.204>then <00:15:01.405>to <00:15:01.604>ship <00:15:01.805>fast, <00:15:02.005>you <00:15:02.204>know,

407
00:15:02.685 --> 00:15:04.685
<00:15:02.685>and <00:15:02.840>we <00:15:02.996>see <00:15:03.151>that <00:15:03.307>phrase <00:15:03.462>used <00:15:03.618>so <00:15:03.773>much, <00:15:03.929>ship <00:15:04.084>fast,

408
00:15:04.875 --> 00:15:06.405
<00:15:04.875>just <00:15:05.150>ship <00:15:05.425>it, <00:15:05.701>things <00:15:05.976>like <00:15:06.252>this.

409
00:15:06.665 --> 00:15:08.325
<00:15:06.665>Um, <00:15:06.839>if <00:15:07.015>you <00:15:07.189>are <00:15:07.365>under <00:15:07.540>pressure <00:15:07.714>from <00:15:07.890>a <00:15:08.064>team

410
00:15:08.705 --> 00:15:11.085
<00:15:08.705>and <00:15:08.905>you <00:15:09.105>really <00:15:09.305>believe <00:15:09.505>that <00:15:09.705>what <00:15:09.905>we <00:15:10.105>need

411
00:15:11.085 --> 00:15:13.885
<00:15:11.085>to <00:15:11.260>be <00:15:11.435>doing <00:15:11.610>is <00:15:11.785>not <00:15:11.960>shipping <00:15:12.135>faster, <00:15:12.310>shipping <00:15:12.485>slower

412
00:15:13.945 --> 00:15:16.325
<00:15:13.945>or <00:15:14.295>shipping <00:15:14.645>less, <00:15:14.995>um, <00:15:15.345>now

413
00:15:16.505 --> 00:15:18.245
<00:15:16.505>how <00:15:16.738>do <00:15:16.971>you <00:15:17.205>approach <00:15:17.438>the <00:15:17.671>management <00:15:17.905>team

414
00:15:18.305 --> 00:15:20.525
<00:15:18.305>and <00:15:18.460>convince <00:15:18.616>them <00:15:18.771>what's, <00:15:18.927>what <00:15:19.082>do <00:15:19.238>you <00:15:19.393>think <00:15:19.549>one <00:15:19.704>thing

415
00:15:20.525 --> 00:15:23.205
<00:15:20.525>that <00:15:20.665>a <00:15:20.805>developer <00:15:20.944>could <00:15:21.084>do <00:15:21.225>to <00:15:21.365>take <00:15:21.505>that <00:15:21.645>to <00:15:21.785>the <00:15:21.925>stakeholders

416
00:15:23.205 --> 00:15:25.205
<00:15:23.205>or <00:15:23.405>the <00:15:23.605>management <00:15:23.805>and <00:15:24.005>convince <00:15:24.205>them <00:15:24.405>we <00:15:24.605>need

417
00:15:25.205 --> 00:15:26.285
<00:15:25.205>to <00:15:25.529>actually <00:15:25.853>slow <00:15:26.177>down

418
00:15:26.385 --> 00:15:29.805
<00:15:26.385>or <00:15:26.512>maybe <00:15:26.639>not <00:15:26.766>slow <00:15:26.894>down, <00:15:27.021>just <00:15:27.148>put <00:15:27.275>the <00:15:27.403>focus <00:15:27.530>more <00:15:27.657>on <00:15:27.785>whether

419
00:15:29.805 --> 00:15:31.125
<00:15:29.805>it <00:15:30.102>be <00:15:30.399>performance <00:15:30.696>or <00:15:30.992>security

420
00:15:31.345 --> 00:15:33.805
<00:15:31.345>or <00:15:31.545>making <00:15:31.745>something <00:15:31.945>just <00:15:32.145>more <00:15:32.345>efficient <00:15:32.545>in <00:15:32.745>terms

421
00:15:33.805 --> 00:15:35.165
<00:15:33.805>of <00:15:34.049>the, <00:15:34.294>the, <00:15:34.539>the <00:15:34.784>line <00:15:35.029>count.

422
00:15:35.465 --> 00:15:37.845
<00:15:35.465>Um, <00:15:35.620>how <00:15:35.776>do <00:15:35.931>you <00:15:36.087>convince, <00:15:36.242>uh, <00:15:36.398>a <00:15:36.553>stakeholder <00:15:36.709>of <00:15:36.865>that?

423
00:15:37.845 --> 00:15:38.845
<00:15:37.845>What <00:15:38.145>could <00:15:38.445>they <00:15:38.745>do?

424
00:15:39.585 --> 00:15:41.765
<00:15:39.585>So <00:15:39.712>I <00:15:39.839>think <00:15:39.966>there <00:15:40.094>are <00:15:40.221>two <00:15:40.348>things <00:15:40.475>we <00:15:40.603>can <00:15:40.730>do <00:15:40.857>as <00:15:40.985>developers

425
00:15:41.765 --> 00:15:43.125
<00:15:41.765>and <00:15:41.968>that <00:15:42.173>we <00:15:42.377>should <00:15:42.581>do <00:15:42.785>as <00:15:42.989>developers.

426
00:15:43.665 --> 00:15:48.085
<00:15:43.665>One <00:15:43.805>is <00:15:43.944>of <00:15:44.084>course, <00:15:44.224>to, <00:15:44.365>uh, <00:15:44.505>present <00:15:44.645>the <00:15:44.785>problem <00:15:44.925>in <00:15:45.064>terms

427
00:15:48.155 --> 00:15:49.725
<00:15:48.155>that <00:15:48.855>management <00:15:49.555>understand.

428
00:15:50.385 --> 00:15:52.205
<00:15:50.385>So, <00:15:50.560>you <00:15:50.735>know, <00:15:50.910>I <00:15:51.085>can <00:15:51.260>go <00:15:51.435>to <00:15:51.610>my <00:15:51.785>manager

429
00:15:52.265 --> 00:15:54.285
<00:15:52.265>and <00:15:52.420>say <00:15:52.576>that, <00:15:52.731>Hey, <00:15:52.887>we <00:15:53.042>need <00:15:53.198>to, <00:15:53.353>uh, <00:15:53.509>stop <00:15:53.665>this

430
00:15:54.285 --> 00:15:57.045
<00:15:54.285>and <00:15:54.425>clean <00:15:54.564>up <00:15:54.704>this <00:15:54.844>code <00:15:54.985>because <00:15:55.125>it <00:15:55.265>has <00:15:55.405>a <00:15:55.545>high <00:15:55.685>complexity.

431
00:15:57.045 --> 00:15:58.285
<00:15:57.045>They <00:15:57.231>have <00:15:57.416>no <00:15:57.603>idea <00:15:57.789>what <00:15:57.975>that <00:15:58.161>means.

432
00:15:58.285 --> 00:15:59.565
<00:15:58.285>They <00:15:58.515>cannot <00:15:58.745>relate <00:15:58.976>to <00:15:59.206>it, <00:15:59.437>really.

433
00:16:00.185 --> 00:16:01.605
<00:16:00.185>But <00:16:00.440>if <00:16:00.696>instead <00:16:00.951>go <00:16:01.207>to <00:16:01.463>management

434
00:16:01.605 --> 00:16:05.525
<00:16:01.605>and <00:16:01.745>say <00:16:01.885>that, <00:16:02.025>you <00:16:02.165>know, <00:16:02.305>uh, <00:16:02.445>we <00:16:02.585>need <00:16:02.725>to <00:16:02.865>stop <00:16:03.005>this

435
00:16:05.525 --> 00:16:06.845
<00:16:05.525>and <00:16:05.762>instead <00:16:06.000>of <00:16:06.237>doing <00:16:06.475>this <00:16:06.713>cleanup,

436
00:16:06.845 --> 00:16:09.965
<00:16:06.845>because <00:16:06.985>right <00:16:07.125>now <00:16:07.265>we're <00:16:07.405>twice <00:16:07.545>as <00:16:07.685>low <00:16:07.825>as <00:16:07.965>we <00:16:08.105>should <00:16:08.245>be,

437
00:16:10.785 --> 00:16:13.125
<00:16:10.785>and <00:16:10.959>that <00:16:11.135>leads <00:16:11.310>with <00:16:11.485>the <00:16:11.660>second <00:16:11.834>thing, <00:16:12.010>here's <00:16:12.185>evidence,

438
00:16:13.125 --> 00:16:15.685
<00:16:13.125>we <00:16:13.265>need <00:16:13.405>to <00:16:13.545>put <00:16:13.685>numbers <00:16:13.825>on <00:16:13.965>it <00:16:14.105>that <00:16:14.245>they <00:16:14.385>can <00:16:14.525>trust

439
00:16:15.685 --> 00:16:16.805
<00:16:15.685>and <00:16:15.886>that <00:16:16.088>we <00:16:16.289>can <00:16:16.491>deliver <00:16:16.693>on.

440
00:16:16.925 --> 00:16:19.565
<00:16:16.925>I <00:16:17.080>think <00:16:17.236>that's <00:16:17.391>really, <00:16:17.547>really <00:16:17.702>key <00:16:17.858>to <00:16:18.013>have <00:16:18.169>that, <00:16:18.324>uh,

441
00:16:19.655 --> 00:16:22.005
<00:16:19.655>connection <00:16:19.855>to <00:16:20.055>management <00:16:20.255>to <00:16:20.454>speak <00:16:20.655>the <00:16:20.855>same <00:16:21.055>language.

442
00:16:22.275 --> 00:16:25.885
<00:16:22.275>Because <00:16:22.402>once <00:16:22.529>we <00:16:22.656>have <00:16:22.784>the <00:16:22.911>same <00:16:23.038>suit <00:16:23.165>to <00:16:23.293>our <00:16:23.420>HR <00:16:23.547>awareness <00:16:23.675>of

443
00:16:25.885 --> 00:16:27.485
<00:16:25.885>how <00:16:26.165>the <00:16:26.444>current <00:16:26.725>situation <00:16:27.005>impacts <00:16:27.285>us,

444
00:16:27.875 --> 00:16:29.565
<00:16:27.875>then <00:16:28.075>we <00:16:28.275>can <00:16:28.475>also <00:16:28.675>make <00:16:28.875>the <00:16:29.075>right <00:16:29.275>calls

445
00:16:29.565 --> 00:16:30.845
<00:16:29.565>and <00:16:29.795>then <00:16:30.025>find <00:16:30.256>the <00:16:30.486>right <00:16:30.717>balance

446
00:16:30.845 --> 00:16:33.645
<00:16:30.845>between <00:16:31.125>doing <00:16:31.405>new <00:16:31.685>features <00:16:31.965>versus <00:16:32.245>fixing

447
00:16:33.665 --> 00:16:34.685
<00:16:33.665>up <00:16:33.971>what's <00:16:34.276>already <00:16:34.583>there.

448
00:16:35.195 --> 00:16:36.365
<00:16:35.195>Yeah, <00:16:35.458>that, <00:16:35.721>that's <00:16:35.984>really <00:16:36.248>interesting

449
00:16:36.365 --> 00:16:38.045
<00:16:36.365>that <00:16:36.520>you're <00:16:36.676>saying <00:16:36.831>about <00:16:36.987>speaking <00:16:37.142>the <00:16:37.298>same <00:16:37.453>language <00:16:37.609>as <00:16:37.765>well,

450
00:16:38.045 --> 00:16:39.605
<00:16:38.045>because <00:16:38.219>I <00:16:38.395>think <00:16:38.569>it's, <00:16:38.745>uh, <00:16:38.920>it's <00:16:39.094>always <00:16:39.270>the <00:16:39.444>thing

451
00:16:39.605 --> 00:16:41.605
<00:16:39.605>that <00:16:39.805>interests <00:16:40.005>me <00:16:40.205>about <00:16:40.405>how <00:16:40.605>do <00:16:40.805>you <00:16:41.005>communicate

452
00:16:41.605 --> 00:16:42.845
<00:16:41.605>something <00:16:42.163>so <00:16:42.721>technical.

453
00:16:43.185 --> 00:16:46.085
<00:16:43.185>And <00:16:43.340>so, <00:16:43.496>um, <00:16:43.651>you <00:16:43.807>need <00:16:43.962>to <00:16:44.118>really <00:16:44.273>have <00:16:44.429>experienced <00:16:44.584>it

454
00:16:46.085 --> 00:16:47.885
<00:16:46.085>to <00:16:46.260>fully <00:16:46.435>understand <00:16:46.610>what <00:16:46.785>it <00:16:46.960>is <00:16:47.135>you're <00:16:47.310>talking <00:16:47.485>about.

455
00:16:48.025 --> 00:16:50.125
<00:16:48.025>And <00:16:48.199>so <00:16:48.375>trying <00:16:48.550>to <00:16:48.725>put <00:16:48.900>some <00:16:49.074>of <00:16:49.250>those <00:16:49.425>concepts

456
00:16:50.125 --> 00:16:52.245
<00:16:50.125>or <00:16:50.405>ideas <00:16:50.685>across <00:16:50.965>to <00:16:51.245>managers, <00:16:51.525>stakeholders

457
00:16:52.345 --> 00:16:54.685
<00:16:52.345>who <00:16:52.578>have <00:16:52.811>perhaps <00:16:53.045>no <00:16:53.278>technical <00:16:53.511>knowledge, <00:16:53.745>um,

458
00:16:54.875 --> 00:16:55.765
<00:16:54.875>it's <00:16:55.075>almost <00:16:55.275>like <00:16:55.475>you're <00:16:55.675>speaking

459
00:16:55.805 --> 00:16:56.645
<00:16:55.805>a <00:16:55.993>different <00:16:56.183>language, <00:16:56.372>you <00:16:56.560>know?

460
00:16:56.665 --> 00:16:57.805
<00:16:56.665>So <00:16:56.836>I <00:16:57.007>think <00:16:57.178>you've <00:16:57.348>managed <00:16:57.520>to <00:16:57.690>find

461
00:16:57.805 --> 00:16:58.845
<00:16:57.805>an <00:16:57.992>interesting <00:16:58.179>way <00:16:58.366>to <00:16:58.553>put <00:16:58.741>it.

462
00:17:00.395 --> 00:17:02.165
<00:17:00.395>Yeah, <00:17:00.675>it, <00:17:00.954>it <00:17:01.235>definitely <00:17:01.515>is, <00:17:01.795>right?

463
00:17:02.265 --> 00:17:06.525
<00:17:02.265>But <00:17:02.420>I <00:17:02.576>mean, <00:17:02.731>given <00:17:02.887>that <00:17:03.042>I've <00:17:03.198>been <00:17:03.353>running <00:17:03.509>a <00:17:03.665>startup

464
00:17:06.665 --> 00:17:07.925
<00:17:06.665>for <00:17:06.891>10 <00:17:07.118>years <00:17:07.345>now, <00:17:07.572>I've <00:17:07.799>kind

465
00:17:07.925 --> 00:17:09.565
<00:17:07.925>of <00:17:08.158>experienced <00:17:08.391>the <00:17:08.625>other <00:17:08.858>side <00:17:09.091>too, <00:17:09.325>right?

466
00:17:09.565 --> 00:17:12.725
<00:17:09.565>Where <00:17:09.692>you <00:17:09.819>s <00:17:09.946>ml, <00:17:10.074>if <00:17:10.201>you <00:17:10.328>have <00:17:10.455>to <00:17:10.583>make <00:17:10.710>promises <00:17:10.837>every <00:17:10.965>now

467
00:17:12.725 --> 00:17:14.925
<00:17:12.724>and <00:17:12.880>then <00:17:13.036>to <00:17:13.191>customers, <00:17:13.347>you <00:17:13.502>have <00:17:13.658>to <00:17:13.813>make <00:17:13.969>commitments, <00:17:14.125>right?

468
00:17:15.425 --> 00:17:18.005
<00:17:15.425>So <00:17:15.599>those <00:17:15.774>deadlines <00:17:15.950>that <00:17:16.125>are <00:17:16.300>typically <00:17:16.474>wave <00:17:16.649>their <00:17:16.825>front

469
00:17:18.005 --> 00:17:20.445
<00:17:18.005>of <00:17:18.205>our <00:17:18.405>developers, <00:17:18.605>they <00:17:18.805>typically <00:17:19.005>mean <00:17:19.205>something, <00:17:19.405>right?

470
00:17:20.445 --> 00:17:22.685
<00:17:20.444>Mm-hmm. <00:17:20.724>And <00:17:21.004>that <00:17:21.284>also <00:17:21.564>means <00:17:21.845>that

471
00:17:22.795 --> 00:17:26.485
<00:17:22.795>what <00:17:22.950>most <00:17:23.106>managers <00:17:23.261>care <00:17:23.417>about <00:17:23.572>is <00:17:23.728>our <00:17:23.883>things <00:17:24.039>like <00:17:24.195>efficiency

472
00:17:26.485 --> 00:17:27.605
<00:17:26.484>and <00:17:26.736>time <00:17:26.989>to <00:17:27.241>market, <00:17:27.492>right?

473
00:17:28.265 --> 00:17:30.885
<00:17:28.265>So <00:17:28.405>if <00:17:28.545>we <00:17:28.685>can <00:17:28.825>frame <00:17:28.965>a <00:17:29.105>tactical <00:17:29.245>problem <00:17:29.385>in <00:17:29.525>those <00:17:29.665>terms,

474
00:17:31.425 --> 00:17:33.445
<00:17:31.425>we <00:17:31.565>have <00:17:31.705>their <00:17:31.845>attention, <00:17:31.985>they <00:17:32.125>are <00:17:32.264>going <00:17:32.405>to <00:17:32.544>listen <00:17:32.685>to <00:17:32.825>us

475
00:17:33.445 --> 00:17:34.485
<00:17:33.445>as <00:17:33.756>the <00:17:34.069>development <00:17:34.380>organization.

476
00:17:35.625 --> 00:17:37.445
<00:17:35.625>The, <00:17:35.825>i <00:17:36.025>I <00:17:36.225>just <00:17:36.425>wanna <00:17:36.625>focus <00:17:36.825>in, <00:17:37.025>uh,

477
00:17:37.565 --> 00:17:39.445
<00:17:37.565>finally <00:17:37.845>on <00:17:38.125>use <00:17:38.405>the <00:17:38.685>word <00:17:38.965>metrics

478
00:17:39.785 --> 00:17:42.805
<00:17:39.785>and <00:17:39.940>you <00:17:40.096>know, <00:17:40.251>we <00:17:40.407>know <00:17:40.562>that <00:17:40.718>stakeholders <00:17:40.873>will <00:17:41.029>often, <00:17:41.185>uh,

479
00:17:42.915 --> 00:17:43.925
<00:17:42.915>make <00:17:43.217>decisions, <00:17:43.521>you <00:17:43.824>know,

480
00:17:43.925 --> 00:17:45.365
<00:17:43.925>heavily <00:17:44.184>based <00:17:44.443>on <00:17:44.702>things <00:17:44.961>like <00:17:45.221>metrics,

481
00:17:45.785 --> 00:17:47.405
<00:17:45.785>but <00:17:46.065>developers <00:17:46.345>like <00:17:46.625>metrics <00:17:46.905>too, <00:17:47.185>right?

482
00:17:47.425 --> 00:17:50.445
<00:17:47.425>We <00:17:47.541>have <00:17:47.658>to <00:17:47.774>me <00:17:47.891>measure <00:17:48.008>whether <00:17:48.125>it <00:17:48.241>it <00:17:48.358>be <00:17:48.475>even <00:17:48.591>just <00:17:48.708>page <00:17:48.825>load

483
00:17:50.505 --> 00:17:53.085
<00:17:50.505>or <00:17:50.660>you <00:17:50.816>know, <00:17:50.971>we're, <00:17:51.127>we're <00:17:51.282>perhaps <00:17:51.438>looking <00:17:51.593>at, <00:17:51.749>you <00:17:51.905>know,

484
00:17:53.085 --> 00:17:55.125
<00:17:53.085>how <00:17:53.240>our <00:17:53.396>databases <00:17:53.551>are <00:17:53.707>structured <00:17:53.862>or <00:17:54.018>whatever <00:17:54.173>it <00:17:54.329>might <00:17:54.485>be.

485
00:17:55.125 --> 00:17:57.125
<00:17:55.125>We <00:17:55.280>end <00:17:55.436>up <00:17:55.591>getting <00:17:55.747>into <00:17:55.902>the <00:17:56.058>world <00:17:56.213>of, <00:17:56.369>of <00:17:56.525>metrics.

486
00:17:57.865 --> 00:17:58.885
<00:17:57.865>What's <00:17:58.171>the <00:17:58.477>metrics <00:17:58.783>though,

487
00:17:58.885 --> 00:18:00.165
<00:17:58.885>that <00:17:59.049>you <00:17:59.214>think <00:17:59.378>we <00:17:59.543>should <00:17:59.707>be <00:17:59.872>focused <00:18:00.037>on

488
00:18:00.185 --> 00:18:01.405
<00:18:00.185>the <00:18:00.551>most <00:18:00.917>as <00:18:01.283>developers?

489
00:18:01.465 --> 00:18:02.805
<00:18:01.465>What's, <00:18:01.867>what's <00:18:02.269>really <00:18:02.671>important

490
00:18:02.805 --> 00:18:04.205
<00:18:02.805>for <00:18:02.985>us <00:18:03.165>when <00:18:03.345>we're <00:18:03.525>thinking <00:18:03.705>about <00:18:03.885>code <00:18:04.065>quality?

491
00:18:04.825 --> 00:18:07.765
<00:18:04.825>So <00:18:04.980>in <00:18:05.136>terms <00:18:05.291>of <00:18:05.447>code <00:18:05.602>quality, <00:18:05.758>I'm, <00:18:05.913>I'm <00:18:06.069>obviously <00:18:06.225>biased,

492
00:18:08.145 --> 00:18:11.565
<00:18:08.145>uh, <00:18:08.252>but <00:18:08.360>I <00:18:08.468>do <00:18:08.575>think <00:18:08.683>that <00:18:08.791>we <00:18:08.898>need <00:18:09.006>to <00:18:09.114>make <00:18:09.221>a <00:18:09.329>good <00:18:09.437>quality <00:18:09.545>KPI,

493
00:18:11.585 --> 00:18:13.005
<00:18:11.585>not <00:18:11.840>only <00:18:12.096>for <00:18:12.351>our <00:18:12.607>system <00:18:12.863>developers,

494
00:18:13.005 --> 00:18:14.565
<00:18:13.005>but <00:18:13.285>also <00:18:13.565>for <00:18:13.845>the <00:18:14.125>whole <00:18:14.405>organization

495
00:18:14.565 --> 00:18:18.445
<00:18:14.565>because <00:18:14.740>it's <00:18:14.915>so <00:18:15.090>important <00:18:15.265>if <00:18:15.440>we're <00:18:15.615>doing <00:18:15.790>poorly, <00:18:15.965>uh,

496
00:18:18.445 --> 00:18:22.205
<00:18:18.445>as <00:18:18.585>I <00:18:18.725>was <00:18:18.865>showed <00:18:19.004>during <00:18:19.145>the <00:18:19.284>talk, <00:18:19.425>we <00:18:19.564>waste <00:18:19.705>roughly <00:18:19.845>40%

497
00:18:22.205 --> 00:18:23.885
<00:18:22.205>of <00:18:22.554>our <00:18:22.905>capacity <00:18:23.254>as <00:18:23.605>engineers.

498
00:18:24.225 --> 00:18:26.445
<00:18:24.225>That's <00:18:24.504>what <00:18:24.784>type <00:18:25.064>in <00:18:25.344>average <00:18:25.625>organization.

499
00:18:27.305 --> 00:18:29.485
<00:18:27.305>So <00:18:27.460>that <00:18:27.616>means <00:18:27.771>you <00:18:27.927>pay <00:18:28.082>the <00:18:28.238>salary <00:18:28.393>from <00:18:28.549>100 <00:18:28.705>people,

500
00:18:29.945 --> 00:18:31.725
<00:18:29.945>you <00:18:30.178>get <00:18:30.411>like <00:18:30.645>60% <00:18:30.878>out <00:18:31.111>of <00:18:31.345>it.

501
00:18:32.585 --> 00:18:35.165
<00:18:32.585>So <00:18:32.785>it's <00:18:32.985>a <00:18:33.185>massive, <00:18:33.385>massive <00:18:33.585>untapped, <00:18:33.785>uh, <00:18:33.985>capacity.

502
00:18:35.345 --> 00:18:38.805
<00:18:35.345>And <00:18:35.472>poor <00:18:35.599>quality <00:18:35.726>code <00:18:35.854>is <00:18:35.981>also <00:18:36.108>causing <00:18:36.235>a <00:18:36.363>lot <00:18:36.490>of, <00:18:36.617>uh, <00:18:36.745>stress

503
00:18:39.305 --> 00:18:40.565
<00:18:39.305>for <00:18:39.588>us <00:18:39.872>develop <00:18:40.155>as <00:18:40.439>developers.

504
00:18:40.565 --> 00:18:42.645
<00:18:40.565>And <00:18:40.720>they're <00:18:40.876>taking <00:18:41.031>away <00:18:41.187>a <00:18:41.342>lot <00:18:41.498>of <00:18:41.653>the <00:18:41.809>join <00:18:41.965>programming.

505
00:18:43.185 --> 00:18:46.405
<00:18:43.185>So <00:18:43.325>I <00:18:43.465>think, <00:18:43.605>uh, <00:18:43.745>we <00:18:43.885>need <00:18:44.024>to <00:18:44.165>have <00:18:44.304>good, <00:18:44.445>reliable <00:18:44.585>metrics

506
00:18:46.505 --> 00:18:49.205
<00:18:46.505>for <00:18:46.645>cold <00:18:46.785>quality <00:18:46.925>and <00:18:47.065>we <00:18:47.205>need, <00:18:47.345>need <00:18:47.485>to <00:18:47.625>make <00:18:47.765>them <00:18:47.905>KPIs.

507
00:18:49.805 --> 00:18:51.525
<00:18:49.805>I <00:18:49.945>think. <00:18:50.085>I <00:18:50.225>think <00:18:50.365>you're, <00:18:50.505>um, <00:18:50.645>you're <00:18:50.785>doing <00:18:50.925>some <00:18:51.065>really <00:18:51.205>good

508
00:18:51.525 --> 00:18:53.205
<00:18:51.525>work <00:18:51.680>there <00:18:51.836>because, <00:18:51.991>you <00:18:52.147>know, <00:18:52.302>I <00:18:52.458>had <00:18:52.613>quite <00:18:52.769>a <00:18:52.925>few

509
00:18:53.205 --> 00:18:54.285
<00:18:53.205>conversations <00:18:53.691>just <00:18:54.177>today

510
00:18:54.475 --> 00:18:57.045
<00:18:54.475>with <00:18:54.630>people <00:18:54.786>saying <00:18:54.941>there's <00:18:55.097>a <00:18:55.252>divide, <00:18:55.408>there's <00:18:55.563>a <00:18:55.719>huge <00:18:55.875>divide,

511
00:18:57.105 --> 00:18:59.565
<00:18:57.105>and <00:18:57.305>it's <00:18:57.505>between, <00:18:57.705>as <00:18:57.905>we're <00:18:58.105>saying, <00:18:58.305>stakeholders <00:18:58.505>management

512
00:18:59.565 --> 00:19:00.645
<00:18:59.565>and <00:18:59.759>then <00:18:59.953>developers <00:19:00.148>on <00:19:00.342>the <00:19:00.537>ground.

513
00:19:00.825 --> 00:19:04.005
<00:19:00.825>And <00:19:00.965>even <00:19:01.105>with <00:19:01.245>this <00:19:01.385>new <00:19:01.525>technology <00:19:01.665>that <00:19:01.805>we're <00:19:01.945>seeing <00:19:02.085>with <00:19:02.225>ai,

514
00:19:04.065 --> 00:19:05.965
<00:19:04.065>et <00:19:04.192>cetera, <00:19:04.319>and <00:19:04.446>all <00:19:04.574>the <00:19:04.701>things <00:19:04.828>that <00:19:04.955>you <00:19:05.083>can <00:19:05.210>do <00:19:05.337>to <00:19:05.465>learn,

515
00:19:06.545 --> 00:19:08.285
<00:19:06.545>we <00:19:06.745>are <00:19:06.945>not <00:19:07.145>really <00:19:07.345>seeing <00:19:07.545>that <00:19:07.745>gap <00:19:07.945>close.

516
00:19:08.385 --> 00:19:10.045
<00:19:08.385>And <00:19:08.585>so <00:19:08.785>it <00:19:08.985>sounds <00:19:09.185>like <00:19:09.385>actually <00:19:09.585>the, <00:19:09.785>uh,

517
00:19:10.195 --> 00:19:12.965
<00:19:10.195>that <00:19:10.350>speaking <00:19:10.506>the <00:19:10.661>same <00:19:10.817>language <00:19:10.972>as <00:19:11.128>them <00:19:11.283>and <00:19:11.439>yeah, <00:19:11.595>KPIs,

518
00:19:12.985 --> 00:19:14.565
<00:19:12.985>and <00:19:13.264>unfortunately <00:19:13.544>we <00:19:13.824>can't <00:19:14.104>avoid <00:19:14.385>them,

519
00:19:14.625 --> 00:19:16.685
<00:19:14.625>but <00:19:14.800>perhaps <00:19:14.975>it's <00:19:15.150>at <00:19:15.325>least <00:19:15.500>something <00:19:15.675>we <00:19:15.850>can, <00:19:16.025>uh,

520
00:19:16.685 --> 00:19:17.725
<00:19:16.685>we <00:19:16.872>can <00:19:17.059>share <00:19:17.246>the <00:19:17.433>language <00:19:17.620>of

521
00:19:17.725 --> 00:19:19.205
<00:19:17.725>and <00:19:17.947>we <00:19:18.168>can <00:19:18.390>understand <00:19:18.612>from <00:19:18.835>both <00:19:19.057>sides.

522
00:19:19.665 --> 00:19:23.965
<00:19:19.665>Um, <00:19:19.792>now <00:19:19.919>just <00:19:20.046>to <00:19:20.174>finish <00:19:20.301>off, <00:19:20.428>um, <00:19:20.555>what, <00:19:20.683>what's <00:19:20.810>the <00:19:20.937>one <00:19:21.065>piece

523
00:19:23.965 --> 00:19:25.405
<00:19:23.965>of <00:19:24.181>advice <00:19:24.397>you'd <00:19:24.612>give <00:19:24.829>to <00:19:25.045>a <00:19:25.261>developer

524
00:19:25.405 --> 00:19:27.485
<00:19:25.405>that <00:19:25.580>they <00:19:25.754>could <00:19:25.930>take <00:19:26.105>from <00:19:26.280>your <00:19:26.455>work, <00:19:26.629>um, <00:19:26.805>or,

525
00:19:27.505 --> 00:19:28.765
<00:19:27.505>or <00:19:27.694>what <00:19:27.883>it <00:19:28.072>is <00:19:28.261>you <00:19:28.450>share <00:19:28.639>today?

526
00:19:28.915 --> 00:19:31.165
<00:19:28.915>What <00:19:29.070>would <00:19:29.226>be <00:19:29.381>the <00:19:29.537>one, <00:19:29.692>whether <00:19:29.848>it <00:19:30.003>be <00:19:30.159>fact, <00:19:30.315>piece

527
00:19:31.165 --> 00:19:33.125
<00:19:31.165>of <00:19:31.340>information, <00:19:31.514>piece <00:19:31.690>of <00:19:31.865>advice <00:19:32.040>that <00:19:32.215>you <00:19:32.389>would <00:19:32.565>say,

528
00:19:33.195 --> 00:19:35.045
<00:19:33.195>take <00:19:33.395>this <00:19:33.595>home <00:19:33.794>with <00:19:33.995>you <00:19:34.195>and <00:19:34.395>apply <00:19:34.595>this.

529
00:19:35.105 --> 00:19:36.245
<00:19:35.105>It <00:19:35.310>could <00:19:35.515>be <00:19:35.720>very, <00:19:35.925>very <00:19:36.130>small,

530
00:19:36.745 --> 00:19:39.285
<00:19:36.745>but <00:19:36.872>what, <00:19:36.999>what, <00:19:37.126>what <00:19:37.254>is <00:19:37.381>that <00:19:37.508>one <00:19:37.635>thing <00:19:37.763>they <00:19:37.890>could <00:19:38.017>take <00:19:38.145>home

531
00:19:39.285 --> 00:19:40.965
<00:19:39.285>with <00:19:39.485>them <00:19:39.685>and <00:19:39.885>apply <00:19:40.085>and <00:19:40.285>become <00:19:40.485>a <00:19:40.685>better

532
00:19:40.965 --> 00:19:42.285
<00:19:40.965>developer <00:19:41.559>today? <00:19:42.153>That

533
00:19:42.465 --> 00:19:47.125
<00:19:42.465>Use, <00:19:42.581>if <00:19:42.698>I <00:19:42.814>can <00:19:42.931>give, <00:19:43.048>give <00:19:43.165>only <00:19:43.281>one <00:19:43.398>advice, <00:19:43.514>then <00:19:43.631>it <00:19:43.748>is <00:19:43.865>to

534
00:19:47.645 --> 00:19:50.205
<00:19:47.645>remember <00:19:47.800>that <00:19:47.956>code <00:19:48.111>is <00:19:48.267>being <00:19:48.422>read <00:19:48.578>so <00:19:48.733>much <00:19:48.889>more <00:19:49.045>frequently

535
00:19:50.205 --> 00:19:51.525
<00:19:50.205>that <00:19:50.502>it's <00:19:50.799>being <00:19:51.096>written, <00:19:51.393>right?

536
00:19:51.745 --> 00:19:54.805
<00:19:51.745>So <00:19:51.945>write <00:19:52.145>for <00:19:52.344>human <00:19:52.544>audience, <00:19:52.745>not <00:19:52.945>the <00:19:53.145>machine.

537
00:19:55.385 --> 00:19:57.725
<00:19:55.385>Oh, <00:19:55.512>I <00:19:55.639>like <00:19:55.766>that. <00:19:55.894>That's <00:19:56.021>a <00:19:56.148>perfect <00:19:56.275>way <00:19:56.403>to <00:19:56.530>end <00:19:56.657>a <00:19:56.785>write

538
00:19:57.725 --> 00:19:59.925
<00:19:57.725>for <00:19:57.925>a <00:19:58.125>human <00:19:58.324>audience, <00:19:58.524>not <00:19:58.725>for <00:19:58.925>the <00:19:59.125>machine.

539
00:20:00.325 --> 00:20:02.365
<00:20:00.325>I <00:20:00.452>love <00:20:00.579>that, <00:20:00.706>Adam, <00:20:00.834>Adam, <00:20:00.961>just <00:20:01.088>to <00:20:01.215>say, <00:20:01.343>I <00:20:01.470>know <00:20:01.597>you've <00:20:01.725>got

540
00:20:02.365 --> 00:20:03.885
<00:20:02.365>to <00:20:02.517>call <00:20:02.669>the <00:20:02.821>stage <00:20:02.973>shortly <00:20:03.125>and <00:20:03.277>do <00:20:03.429>your <00:20:03.581>sound <00:20:03.733>check,

541
00:20:03.905 --> 00:20:05.605
<00:20:03.905>and <00:20:04.060>I'm <00:20:04.216>gonna <00:20:04.371>be, <00:20:04.527>uh, <00:20:04.682>really <00:20:04.838>looking <00:20:04.993>forward <00:20:05.149>to <00:20:05.305>your,

542
00:20:05.605 --> 00:20:07.245
<00:20:05.605>your <00:20:05.838>talk <00:20:06.071>later <00:20:06.305>today <00:20:06.538>here <00:20:06.771>at <00:20:07.005>Cora.

543
00:20:07.585 --> 00:20:08.805
<00:20:07.585>Um, <00:20:07.804>thanks <00:20:08.024>again <00:20:08.243>for <00:20:08.463>joining <00:20:08.683>us.

544
00:20:08.825 --> 00:20:10.045
<00:20:08.825>We <00:20:08.981>know <00:20:09.138>you've <00:20:09.295>got <00:20:09.452>a <00:20:09.609>very <00:20:09.766>busy <00:20:09.923>day,

545
00:20:10.045 --> 00:20:11.325
<00:20:10.045>so <00:20:10.275>we <00:20:10.505>appreciate <00:20:10.736>your <00:20:10.966>time <00:20:11.197>and,

546
00:20:11.345 --> 00:20:12.805
<00:20:11.345>uh, <00:20:11.673>yeah, <00:20:12.002>thanks <00:20:12.330>again, <00:20:12.659>Adam.

547
00:20:13.295 --> 00:20:15.605
<00:20:13.295>Thank <00:20:13.435>you <00:20:13.575>very <00:20:13.715>much <00:20:13.855>for <00:20:13.995>having <00:20:14.135>me <00:20:14.275>here. <00:20:14.415>Thank <00:20:14.555>you. <00:20:14.695>Take

548
00:20:15.605 --> 00:20:15.725
Care.