WEBVTT

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<00:00:05.515>All <00:00:05.785>right.

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<00:00:06.195>So, <00:00:06.370>uh, <00:00:06.545>the <00:00:06.720>whole <00:00:06.895>point <00:00:07.070>of <00:00:07.245>discussion <00:00:07.420>today <00:00:07.595>is

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<00:00:09.455>to <00:00:09.610>really <00:00:09.766>kind <00:00:09.921>of <00:00:10.077>dive <00:00:10.232>into <00:00:10.388>how <00:00:10.543>you <00:00:10.699>can <00:00:10.855>have

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<00:00:13.125>good <00:00:13.300>innovation, <00:00:13.475>uh, <00:00:13.650>while <00:00:13.825>still <00:00:14.000>kind <00:00:14.175>of <00:00:14.350>maintaining <00:00:14.525>robust,

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<00:00:17.435>uh, <00:00:17.901>governance <00:00:18.368>and <00:00:18.834>security

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<00:00:19.795>and <00:00:20.028>compliance, <00:00:20.261>especially <00:00:20.495>if <00:00:20.728>you're <00:00:20.961>in <00:00:21.195>a

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<00:00:21.775>regulated <00:00:22.783>environment.

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<00:00:23.435>Uh, <00:00:23.562>so <00:00:23.689>we <00:00:23.816>kind <00:00:23.944>of, <00:00:24.071>kind <00:00:24.198>of <00:00:24.325>dive <00:00:24.453>into <00:00:24.580>that <00:00:24.707>a <00:00:24.834>little.

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<00:00:26.115>But <00:00:26.270>before <00:00:26.426>we <00:00:26.581>do, <00:00:26.737>I <00:00:26.892>wanted <00:00:27.048>to <00:00:27.203>give <00:00:27.359>the <00:00:27.514>opportunity

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<00:00:28.675>for <00:00:28.802>these <00:00:28.929>guys <00:00:29.056>to <00:00:29.184>give <00:00:29.311>a <00:00:29.438>little <00:00:29.565>bit <00:00:29.693>more <00:00:29.820>of <00:00:29.947>an <00:00:30.075>introduction

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<00:00:31.975>to <00:00:32.144>who <00:00:32.314>they <00:00:32.484>are <00:00:32.653>and <00:00:32.823>what <00:00:32.993>they <00:00:33.163>do.

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<00:00:34.245>Yeah. <00:00:34.400>Hi <00:00:34.556>everyone. <00:00:34.711>Thanks <00:00:34.867>for <00:00:35.022>coming. <00:00:35.178>I'm, <00:00:35.333>uh, <00:00:35.489>I'm <00:00:35.644>here.

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<00:00:37.515>I'm <00:00:37.655>VP <00:00:37.795>Engineering <00:00:37.935>in <00:00:38.075>Zer. <00:00:38.215>Zer <00:00:38.355>is, <00:00:38.495>uh, <00:00:38.635>a <00:00:38.775>payment <00:00:38.915>company.

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<00:00:44.395>We <00:00:44.675>do <00:00:44.955>post <00:00:45.235>payments, <00:00:45.515>buy <00:00:45.795>now,

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<00:00:46.215>pay <00:00:46.565>later, <00:00:46.915>uh, <00:00:47.265>debt <00:00:47.615>collection.

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<00:00:48.955>Uh, <00:00:49.110>basically <00:00:49.266>as <00:00:49.421>a <00:00:49.577>merchant <00:00:49.732>we <00:00:49.888>do <00:00:50.043>everything <00:00:50.199>for <00:00:50.355>you.

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<00:00:52.075>Uh, <00:00:52.541>working <00:00:53.008>in <00:00:53.475>technology

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<00:00:54.015>and <00:00:54.295>engineering <00:00:54.575>for <00:00:54.855>about <00:00:55.135>20 <00:00:55.415>years.

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<00:00:56.635>And, <00:00:56.809>uh, <00:00:56.985>yeah, <00:00:57.160>in <00:00:57.335>my <00:00:57.510>free <00:00:57.684>time <00:00:57.860>I <00:00:58.035>like

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<00:01:00.055>to <00:01:00.521>experiment <00:01:00.988>with <00:01:01.455>stuff.

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<00:01:01.955>Um, <00:01:02.188>play <00:01:02.421>with <00:01:02.655>Arduino <00:01:02.888>and <00:01:03.121>do <00:01:03.355>stuff.

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<00:01:07.655>Hi, <00:01:07.810>I <00:01:07.966>am <00:01:08.121>Yael, <00:01:08.277>uh, <00:01:08.432>I'm <00:01:08.588>engineering <00:01:08.743>manager <00:01:08.899>for <00:01:09.055>Ambos.

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<00:01:12.055>Um, <00:01:12.210>we <00:01:12.366>are <00:01:12.521>on <00:01:12.677>a <00:01:12.832>task <00:01:12.988>to <00:01:13.143>empower, <00:01:13.299>uh, <00:01:13.455>doctors.

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<00:01:16.775>Uh, <00:01:17.055>I'm <00:01:17.335>also <00:01:17.615>CD <00:01:17.895>Foundation <00:01:18.175>ambassador.

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<00:01:20.375>Um, <00:01:20.515>I <00:01:20.655>bring <00:01:20.795>around <00:01:20.935>30 <00:01:21.075>years <00:01:21.215>experience <00:01:21.355>in <00:01:21.495>the <00:01:21.635>field <00:01:21.775>of

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<00:01:24.395>software <00:01:24.744>development, <00:01:25.095>uh, <00:01:25.445>qa, <00:01:25.795>um,

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<00:01:28.325>doing <00:01:28.500>also <00:01:28.675>the <00:01:28.850>DevOps <00:01:29.025>meetup, <00:01:29.200>uh, <00:01:29.375>group <00:01:29.550>in <00:01:29.725>Berlin.

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<00:01:32.055>Um, <00:01:32.230>yeah, <00:01:32.405>deep <00:01:32.580>into <00:01:32.755>this, <00:01:32.930>uh, <00:01:33.105>part <00:01:33.280>culture <00:01:33.455>pal,

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<00:01:36.225>part <00:01:36.691>technical <00:01:37.158>stuff. <00:01:37.625>Yep.

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<00:01:38.945>Awesome. <00:01:39.225>Thank <00:01:39.505>you <00:01:39.785>very <00:01:40.065>much <00:01:40.345>indeed.

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<00:01:41.414>So, <00:01:41.531>uh, <00:01:41.648>one <00:01:41.764>of <00:01:41.881>the <00:01:41.998>things <00:01:42.115>that <00:01:42.231>we <00:01:42.348>do <00:01:42.464>want <00:01:42.581>to <00:01:42.698>drive <00:01:42.815>out

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<00:01:44.315>as <00:01:44.490>part <00:01:44.664>of <00:01:44.840>the <00:01:45.015>discussion <00:01:45.190>today <00:01:45.365>is <00:01:45.539>kind <00:01:45.715>of

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<00:01:46.495>how <00:01:46.695>you <00:01:46.895>can <00:01:47.095>use <00:01:47.295>metrics <00:01:47.495>to <00:01:47.695>drive <00:01:47.895>some

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<00:01:48.634>of <00:01:48.835>the <00:01:49.035>decisions <00:01:49.234>you <00:01:49.434>make <00:01:49.634>and <00:01:49.835>actually <00:01:50.035>measure

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<00:01:50.345>what <00:01:50.485>you <00:01:50.625>are <00:01:50.765>really <00:01:50.905>doing, <00:01:51.045>uh, <00:01:51.185>across <00:01:51.325>the <00:01:51.465>piece <00:01:51.605>in <00:01:51.745>terms

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<00:01:53.475>of <00:01:53.824>driving <00:01:54.175>kind <00:01:54.524>of <00:01:54.875>self-service.

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<00:01:55.735>So <00:01:55.968>let's <00:01:56.201>not <00:01:56.435>waste <00:01:56.668>any <00:01:56.901>more <00:01:57.135>time.

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<00:01:58.765>Let's, <00:01:58.998>let's <00:01:59.231>dip <00:01:59.465>right <00:01:59.698>into <00:01:59.931>the <00:02:00.165>questions.

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<00:02:01.575>So, <00:02:01.702>you <00:02:01.829>know, <00:02:01.956>first <00:02:02.084>of <00:02:02.211>all, <00:02:02.338>I <00:02:02.465>guess <00:02:02.593>what's <00:02:02.720>the, <00:02:02.847>you <00:02:02.975>know,

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<00:02:05.935>how <00:02:06.090>do <00:02:06.246>you <00:02:06.401>actually <00:02:06.557>go <00:02:06.712>about <00:02:06.868>giving <00:02:07.023>self-service <00:02:07.179>while <00:02:07.335>make

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<00:02:09.715>sure <00:02:09.890>that <00:02:10.065>you're <00:02:10.240>not <00:02:10.414>compromising, <00:02:10.590>you <00:02:10.765>know, <00:02:10.940>the <00:02:11.115>regulations

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<00:02:12.875>that <00:02:13.050>you <00:02:13.225>need <00:02:13.400>to <00:02:13.575>adhere <00:02:13.750>to <00:02:13.925>in <00:02:14.100>your <00:02:14.275>environments?

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<00:02:14.855>And, <00:02:15.010>and <00:02:15.166>both <00:02:15.321>of <00:02:15.477>you <00:02:15.632>work <00:02:15.788>in <00:02:15.943>regulated <00:02:16.099>environments, <00:02:16.255>so,

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<00:02:18.295>you <00:02:18.422>know, <00:02:18.549>how <00:02:18.676>do <00:02:18.804>you, <00:02:18.931>how <00:02:19.058>do <00:02:19.185>you <00:02:19.313>empower <00:02:19.440>the <00:02:19.567>developer <00:02:19.695>while

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<00:02:21.565>still <00:02:21.720>maintaining <00:02:21.876>all <00:02:22.031>the <00:02:22.187>compliance <00:02:22.342>that <00:02:22.498>you <00:02:22.653>need <00:02:22.809>to <00:02:22.965>do?

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<00:02:25.454>Uh, <00:02:25.610>yeah. <00:02:25.766>So, <00:02:25.921>uh, <00:02:26.077>you're <00:02:26.232>right, <00:02:26.388>uh, <00:02:26.543>is <00:02:26.699>a <00:02:26.855>FinTech,

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<00:02:28.835>so <00:02:29.115>it's <00:02:29.395>highly <00:02:29.675>regulated, <00:02:29.955>uh, <00:02:30.235>environment.

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<00:02:32.815>Um, <00:02:33.048>I <00:02:33.281>think <00:02:33.515>about <00:02:33.748>it <00:02:33.981>as <00:02:34.215>a,

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<00:02:36.145>it's <00:02:36.611>a <00:02:37.078>two <00:02:37.545>approaches.

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<00:02:38.375>One <00:02:38.725>is, <00:02:39.075>uh, <00:02:39.425>guardrails, <00:02:39.775>right?

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<00:02:40.195>You <00:02:40.350>don't <00:02:40.506>want <00:02:40.661>to <00:02:40.817>have, <00:02:40.972>uh, <00:02:41.128>buggy <00:02:41.283>codes <00:02:41.439>on <00:02:41.595>production

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<00:02:42.935>or <00:02:43.215>a <00:02:43.495>vulnerable <00:02:43.775>code <00:02:44.055>on <00:02:44.335>production.

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<00:02:45.815>Um, <00:02:45.954>and <00:02:46.095>on <00:02:46.234>the <00:02:46.375>other <00:02:46.515>hand, <00:02:46.655>more <00:02:46.795>of <00:02:46.935>a <00:02:47.075>golden <00:02:47.215>path.

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<00:02:48.855>We <00:02:48.994>try <00:02:49.135>to <00:02:49.274>keep <00:02:49.415>the <00:02:49.554>developers, <00:02:49.695>uh, <00:02:49.834>give <00:02:49.975>the <00:02:50.114>developers <00:02:50.255>tools

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<00:02:51.975>so <00:02:52.102>that <00:02:52.229>the <00:02:52.356>policies <00:02:52.484>do <00:02:52.611>not <00:02:52.738>fail <00:02:52.865>them <00:02:52.993>so <00:02:53.120>that <00:02:53.247>they <00:02:53.375>have

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<00:02:56.265>less <00:02:56.827>failing <00:02:57.390>bills.

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<00:02:57.515>They <00:02:57.690>can <00:02:57.864>get <00:02:58.040>to <00:02:58.214>production <00:02:58.390>a <00:02:58.565>bit <00:02:58.739>faster. <00:02:58.915>Yeah,

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<00:03:00.865>Faster <00:03:01.342>is <00:03:01.819>good.

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<00:03:03.265>Um, <00:03:03.464>for <00:03:03.665>me <00:03:03.864>it's, <00:03:04.065>it's <00:03:04.265>different <00:03:04.464>a <00:03:04.665>bit.

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<00:03:06.525>'cause <00:03:06.725>we <00:03:06.925>are <00:03:07.125>less <00:03:07.325>regulated <00:03:07.525>than <00:03:07.725>you <00:03:07.925>are.

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<00:03:08.745>And <00:03:08.945>it's <00:03:09.145>also <00:03:09.345>about, <00:03:09.545>um, <00:03:09.745>listening <00:03:09.945>to <00:03:10.145>people,

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<00:03:12.535>let's <00:03:12.734>say <00:03:12.935>developers <00:03:13.135>and <00:03:13.335>hearing <00:03:13.535>what <00:03:13.734>they <00:03:13.935>need

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<00:03:16.585>and <00:03:16.760>then <00:03:16.935>trying <00:03:17.110>to <00:03:17.285>find <00:03:17.460>something <00:03:17.635>that <00:03:17.810>can <00:03:17.985>cater

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<00:03:19.385>for <00:03:19.665>their <00:03:19.945>needs <00:03:20.225>while <00:03:20.505>not <00:03:20.785>disrupting.

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<00:03:22.225>So <00:03:22.380>there's <00:03:22.536>like, <00:03:22.691>okay, <00:03:22.847>we <00:03:23.002>want <00:03:23.158>1, <00:03:23.313>2, <00:03:23.469>3, <00:03:23.625>okay,

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<00:03:26.425>but <00:03:26.565>then <00:03:26.705>you <00:03:26.845>can <00:03:26.985>get <00:03:27.125>one <00:03:27.265>and <00:03:27.405>two, <00:03:27.545>but <00:03:27.685>not <00:03:27.825>three.

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<00:03:30.625>And <00:03:30.858>it's <00:03:31.091>a <00:03:31.325>very, <00:03:31.558>um, <00:03:31.791>humanistic <00:03:32.025>approach

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<00:03:34.365>to <00:03:34.662>this <00:03:34.959>in <00:03:35.256>a <00:03:35.553>sense.

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<00:03:35.835>Like, <00:03:36.115>like <00:03:36.395>listening <00:03:36.675>to <00:03:36.955>the <00:03:37.235>people

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<00:03:37.865>and <00:03:38.065>having <00:03:38.265>this <00:03:38.465>endless <00:03:38.665>feedback <00:03:38.865>loop <00:03:39.065>of <00:03:39.265>back

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<00:03:41.885>and <00:03:42.371>forth, <00:03:42.857>uh,

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<00:03:43.345>and <00:03:43.695>also <00:03:44.045>checking <00:03:44.395>what <00:03:44.745>people

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<00:03:48.555>feel <00:03:48.978>about <00:03:49.401>your <00:03:49.824>service.

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<00:03:51.235>Okay. <00:03:51.375>So <00:03:51.515>that <00:03:51.655>kind <00:03:51.795>of <00:03:51.935>leads <00:03:52.075>me <00:03:52.215>to <00:03:52.355>my <00:03:52.495>next <00:03:52.635>question,

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<00:03:53.525>because <00:03:53.652>if <00:03:53.779>you <00:03:53.906>are, <00:03:54.034>if <00:03:54.161>you're <00:03:54.288>doing <00:03:54.415>that <00:03:54.543>kind <00:03:54.670>of <00:03:54.797>work, <00:03:54.925>doing

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<00:03:56.805>that <00:03:56.980>ch <00:03:57.155>making <00:03:57.330>changes, <00:03:57.505>trying <00:03:57.680>to <00:03:57.855>make <00:03:58.030>it <00:03:58.205>easier,

78
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<00:03:59.425>how <00:03:59.580>are <00:03:59.736>you <00:03:59.891>measuring <00:04:00.047>the <00:04:00.202>impact <00:04:00.358>of <00:04:00.513>what <00:04:00.669>you're <00:04:00.825>doing?

79
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<00:04:01.825>So, <00:04:01.964>I <00:04:02.105>mean, <00:04:02.244>in <00:04:02.385>both <00:04:02.524>the <00:04:02.665>examples <00:04:02.804>that <00:04:02.945>you've <00:04:03.084>both <00:04:03.225>kind

80
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<00:04:04.805>of <00:04:04.960>given, <00:04:05.116>you <00:04:05.271>know, <00:04:05.427>if <00:04:05.582>you <00:04:05.738>are, <00:04:05.893>you've <00:04:06.049>got <00:04:06.205>that

81
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<00:04:09.375>compliance <00:04:09.575>bedded <00:04:09.775>into <00:04:09.975>your <00:04:10.175>processes, <00:04:10.375>your <00:04:10.575>golden <00:04:10.775>paths,

82
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<00:04:12.705>uh, <00:04:12.938>and <00:04:13.171>the <00:04:13.405>same <00:04:13.638>when <00:04:13.871>you're <00:04:14.105>trying

83
00:04:14.725 --> 00:04:15.805
<00:04:14.725>to, <00:04:14.968>you <00:04:15.211>know, <00:04:15.454>enable <00:04:15.697>them.

84
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<00:04:16.144>How <00:04:16.320>do <00:04:16.495>you <00:04:16.669>actually <00:04:16.844>know <00:04:17.019>that <00:04:17.195>they're <00:04:17.370>using <00:04:17.544>that,

85
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<00:04:17.925>that <00:04:18.158>they're <00:04:18.391>actually <00:04:18.625>getting <00:04:18.858>value, <00:04:19.091>you <00:04:19.325>know,

86
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<00:04:19.644>what <00:04:19.806>are <00:04:19.969>the <00:04:20.130>kind <00:04:20.293>of <00:04:20.454>metrics <00:04:20.616>that <00:04:20.779>you <00:04:20.940>are,

87
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<00:04:21.225>you're <00:04:21.425>pulling <00:04:21.625>out <00:04:21.825>to <00:04:22.025>help, <00:04:22.225>help <00:04:22.425>understand <00:04:22.625>that,

88
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<00:04:24.795>that <00:04:25.034>the <00:04:25.273>changes <00:04:25.513>that <00:04:25.752>you're <00:04:25.992>making

89
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<00:04:26.145>and <00:04:26.328>the <00:04:26.510>effort <00:04:26.694>that <00:04:26.877>you're <00:04:27.060>putting <00:04:27.243>in

90
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<00:04:27.365>are <00:04:27.689>actually <00:04:28.013>reflected <00:04:28.337>back?

91
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<00:04:30.275>Yeah, <00:04:30.414>so <00:04:30.554>we <00:04:30.695>track <00:04:30.835>a <00:04:30.974>lot <00:04:31.114>of <00:04:31.255>the, <00:04:31.395>I <00:04:31.534>guess, <00:04:31.674>yeah,

92
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<00:04:34.965>the <00:04:35.105>advice <00:04:35.245>I <00:04:35.385>would <00:04:35.525>give <00:04:35.665>is <00:04:35.805>track <00:04:35.945>the <00:04:36.085>boring <00:04:36.225>metrics <00:04:36.365>first.

93
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<00:04:37.635>Yeah, <00:04:37.790>we <00:04:37.946>always <00:04:38.101>do <00:04:38.257>the, <00:04:38.412>uh, <00:04:38.568>the <00:04:38.723>Dora <00:04:38.879>metrics <00:04:39.034>were,

94
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<00:04:40.725>were <00:04:40.925>the <00:04:41.125>first <00:04:41.325>metrics <00:04:41.525>that <00:04:41.725>we <00:04:41.925>went <00:04:42.125>to.

95
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<00:04:42.425>How, <00:04:42.654>how <00:04:42.884>soon <00:04:43.113>do <00:04:43.343>you,

96
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<00:04:43.475>what <00:04:43.675>is <00:04:43.875>the <00:04:44.075>lead <00:04:44.275>time, <00:04:44.475>uh, <00:04:44.675>to <00:04:44.875>production?

97
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<00:04:45.485>Uh, <00:04:45.695>how <00:04:45.905>many <00:04:46.115>deployments <00:04:46.325>and <00:04:46.534>so <00:04:46.745>on.

98
00:04:47.545 --> 00:04:52.305
<00:04:47.545>But, <00:04:47.685>uh, <00:04:47.825>the <00:04:47.965>next <00:04:48.105>step <00:04:48.245>would <00:04:48.385>was <00:04:48.525>for <00:04:48.665>us, <00:04:48.805>for <00:04:48.945>example,

99
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<00:04:52.305>adding <00:04:52.480>automated <00:04:52.655>code <00:04:52.830>scanning, <00:04:53.005>uh, <00:04:53.180>during <00:04:53.355>the <00:04:53.530>build <00:04:53.705>process

100
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<00:04:55.925>so <00:04:56.052>that <00:04:56.179>we <00:04:56.306>have <00:04:56.434>a <00:04:56.561>monthly <00:04:56.688>or <00:04:56.815>a <00:04:56.943>weekly, <00:04:57.070>uh, <00:04:57.197>code <00:04:57.325>scanning

101
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<00:04:59.845>and <00:05:00.376>vulnerability <00:05:00.907>scans.

102
00:05:01.485 --> 00:05:02.825
<00:05:01.485>But <00:05:01.686>we <00:05:01.887>did <00:05:02.088>want, <00:05:02.289>we <00:05:02.490>didn't <00:05:02.691>want

103
00:05:02.825 --> 00:05:04.625
<00:05:02.825>to <00:05:03.058>discover <00:05:03.291>it <00:05:03.525>when <00:05:03.758>it's <00:05:03.991>on <00:05:04.224>production.

104
00:05:04.625 --> 00:05:07.025
<00:05:04.625>We <00:05:04.780>added <00:05:04.936>the <00:05:05.091>code <00:05:05.247>scanning <00:05:05.402>during <00:05:05.558>the <00:05:05.713>build, <00:05:05.869>for <00:05:06.025>example,

105
00:05:07.125 --> 00:05:08.545
<00:05:07.125>on, <00:05:07.551>uh, <00:05:07.977>GitHub <00:05:08.403>actions.

106
00:05:09.005 --> 00:05:10.985
<00:05:09.005>And <00:05:09.205>what <00:05:09.405>we've <00:05:09.605>noticed <00:05:09.805>is <00:05:10.005>actually <00:05:10.205>we, <00:05:10.405>we,

107
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<00:05:11.005>we <00:05:11.383>find <00:05:11.760>more <00:05:12.139>vulnerabilities.

108
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<00:05:12.445>So <00:05:12.678>we, <00:05:12.911>we <00:05:13.145>even <00:05:13.378>had <00:05:13.611>40% <00:05:13.844>more

109
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<00:05:14.465>vulnerabilities <00:05:14.753>when <00:05:15.041>we <00:05:15.329>added <00:05:15.617>it.

110
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<00:05:16.245>But <00:05:16.582>the <00:05:16.920>added <00:05:17.257>bonus <00:05:17.595>was

111
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<00:05:17.745>that <00:05:17.945>our <00:05:18.145>SLA <00:05:18.345>satisfaction <00:05:18.545>rate <00:05:18.745>was <00:05:18.945>really <00:05:19.145>increasing

112
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<00:05:20.505>because <00:05:20.847>people <00:05:21.188>noticed <00:05:21.531>it <00:05:21.873>immediately

113
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<00:05:22.025>and <00:05:22.164>they <00:05:22.304>fixed <00:05:22.445>it <00:05:22.585>to <00:05:22.724>be <00:05:22.864>able <00:05:23.005>to <00:05:23.145>deploy <00:05:23.284>to <00:05:23.424>production.

114
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<00:05:24.925>So, <00:05:25.065>uh, <00:05:25.205>in <00:05:25.345>that <00:05:25.485>sense, <00:05:25.625>metrics <00:05:25.765>did <00:05:25.905>help, <00:05:26.045>uh, <00:05:26.185>developers <00:05:26.325>kind

115
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<00:05:29.625>of <00:05:29.997>fix <00:05:30.369>problems <00:05:30.741>faster.

116
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<00:05:31.045>And <00:05:31.364>by <00:05:31.684>fixing <00:05:32.003>it <00:05:32.323>faster

117
00:05:32.525 --> 00:05:35.025
<00:05:32.525>and <00:05:32.700>avoiding <00:05:32.875>it, <00:05:33.049>then <00:05:33.224>you <00:05:33.400>could <00:05:33.575>also <00:05:33.750>move <00:05:33.924>faster.

118
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<00:05:36.615>Okay. <00:05:36.742>I, <00:05:36.869>I <00:05:36.996>can <00:05:37.124>only <00:05:37.251>add <00:05:37.378>two <00:05:37.505>other <00:05:37.633>metrics <00:05:37.760>that <00:05:37.887>are, <00:05:38.015>again,

119
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<00:05:41.245>um, <00:05:41.400>you <00:05:41.556>need <00:05:41.711>to <00:05:41.867>listen <00:05:42.022>and <00:05:42.178>look <00:05:42.333>at <00:05:42.489>the <00:05:42.645>people.

120
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<00:05:43.765>One <00:05:43.965>is, <00:05:44.164>um, <00:05:44.365>what's <00:05:44.565>the <00:05:44.765>level <00:05:44.965>of <00:05:45.164>interaction

121
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<00:05:47.784>between <00:05:48.018>the <00:05:48.251>developers <00:05:48.484>and <00:05:48.718>the <00:05:48.951>platform <00:05:49.184>team?

122
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<00:05:51.005>If <00:05:51.355>it's <00:05:51.705>very <00:05:52.055>simple <00:05:52.405>things

123
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<00:05:53.284>or <00:05:53.460>suddenly <00:05:53.635>people <00:05:53.809>feel <00:05:53.984>more <00:05:54.159>empowered <00:05:54.335>to <00:05:54.510>do <00:05:54.684>something

124
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<00:05:56.225>that <00:05:56.400>is <00:05:56.575>more <00:05:56.750>complex <00:05:56.925>and <00:05:57.100>instead <00:05:57.275>of <00:05:57.450>just <00:05:57.625>demanding,

125
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<00:05:59.875>they <00:06:00.030>are <00:06:00.186>more <00:06:00.341>interacting <00:06:00.497>on <00:06:00.652>a <00:06:00.808>level <00:06:00.963>that <00:06:01.119>is, <00:06:01.275>um,

126
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<00:06:04.285>a <00:06:04.565>conversation, <00:06:04.845>then <00:06:05.125>you <00:06:05.405>can <00:06:05.685>see

127
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<00:06:06.645>that <00:06:06.800>they <00:06:06.956>are <00:06:07.111>really <00:06:07.267>empowered <00:06:07.422>because <00:06:07.578>that's <00:06:07.733>what <00:06:07.889>we <00:06:08.044>want.

128
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<00:06:09.345>We <00:06:09.578>want <00:06:09.811>the <00:06:10.045>developers <00:06:10.278>to <00:06:10.511>empower <00:06:10.745>themselves.

129
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<00:06:12.345>And <00:06:12.520>the <00:06:12.695>second <00:06:12.870>thing, <00:06:13.045>you <00:06:13.220>can <00:06:13.395>also <00:06:13.570>check, <00:06:13.745>um,

130
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<00:06:15.505>the <00:06:15.797>level <00:06:16.090>of <00:06:16.382>the <00:06:16.675>prs.

131
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<00:06:17.395>Like <00:06:17.522>you <00:06:17.649>can, <00:06:17.776>you <00:06:17.904>can <00:06:18.031>see <00:06:18.158>what <00:06:18.285>kind <00:06:18.413>of <00:06:18.540>pull <00:06:18.667>requests <00:06:18.794>they,

132
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<00:06:20.565>they <00:06:20.740>do <00:06:20.915>when <00:06:21.090>they <00:06:21.265>use <00:06:21.440>the, <00:06:21.615>let's <00:06:21.790>say <00:06:21.965>terraform,

133
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<00:06:24.005>which <00:06:24.238>is <00:06:24.471>not, <00:06:24.705>let's <00:06:24.938>say <00:06:25.171>their <00:06:25.405>core.

134
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<00:06:26.345>And <00:06:26.485>then <00:06:26.625>you <00:06:26.765>can <00:06:26.905>see <00:06:27.045>if, <00:06:27.185>if <00:06:27.325>they <00:06:27.465>consolidate <00:06:27.605>or <00:06:27.745>not.

135
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<00:06:30.305>And <00:06:30.460>like <00:06:30.616>I <00:06:30.771>said, <00:06:30.927>the <00:06:31.082>feedback, <00:06:31.238>always <00:06:31.393>the <00:06:31.549>feedback <00:06:31.705>ask

136
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<00:06:34.115>proactively <00:06:34.395>ask <00:06:34.675>the <00:06:34.955>people. <00:06:35.235>So <00:06:35.515>yeah.

137
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<00:06:37.575>Yeah. <00:06:37.702>Maybe, <00:06:37.829>maybe <00:06:37.956>to <00:06:38.084>add <00:06:38.211>to <00:06:38.338>that, <00:06:38.465>I <00:06:38.593>mean, <00:06:38.720>in <00:06:38.847>the <00:06:38.974>sense

138
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<00:06:39.985>of, <00:06:40.185>for <00:06:40.385>example, <00:06:40.585>Terraform <00:06:40.785>is <00:06:40.985>a <00:06:41.185>wonderful <00:06:41.385>example

139
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<00:06:41.985>because <00:06:42.160>with <00:06:42.335>Terraform, <00:06:42.510>uh, <00:06:42.685>we <00:06:42.860>try <00:06:43.035>to <00:06:43.210>make <00:06:43.385>it

140
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<00:06:44.825>as <00:06:45.058>a <00:06:45.291>self-service, <00:06:45.525>uh, <00:06:45.758>for <00:06:45.991>the <00:06:46.224>developers.

141
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<00:06:47.045>We <00:06:47.245>started <00:06:47.445>with <00:06:47.645>the <00:06:47.845>ticketing <00:06:48.045>system <00:06:48.245>so <00:06:48.445>that

142
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<00:06:49.625>actually <00:06:49.825>developers <00:06:50.025>do <00:06:50.225>not <00:06:50.425>even <00:06:50.625>need <00:06:50.825>to <00:06:51.025>commit

143
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<00:06:51.505>with <00:06:51.739>Terraform, <00:06:51.973>but <00:06:52.207>they <00:06:52.441>can,

144
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<00:06:52.615>they <00:06:52.868>can <00:06:53.122>create <00:06:53.376>a <00:06:53.630>pull <00:06:53.883>request.

145
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<00:06:54.605>Um, <00:06:54.805>and <00:06:55.005>then <00:06:55.205>the <00:06:55.405>question <00:06:55.605>is <00:06:55.805>how <00:06:56.005>long,

146
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<00:06:56.385>when <00:06:56.615>they <00:06:56.845>create <00:06:57.076>the <00:06:57.306>pull <00:06:57.537>request,

147
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<00:06:57.665>because <00:06:57.998>then <00:06:58.331>it <00:06:58.664>sup <00:06:58.996>supposedly,

148
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<00:06:59.145>it <00:06:59.320>also <00:06:59.495>reduces <00:06:59.669>the <00:06:59.844>time <00:07:00.020>from <00:07:00.195>the <00:07:00.370>platform <00:07:00.544>team.

149
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<00:07:01.525>How <00:07:01.664>long <00:07:01.804>does <00:07:01.945>the <00:07:02.085>PR <00:07:02.224>dwindle <00:07:02.364>in, <00:07:02.505>in <00:07:02.645>waiting <00:07:02.784>to <00:07:02.924>review

150
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<00:07:05.165>how <00:07:05.320>much <00:07:05.476>discussion <00:07:05.631>is <00:07:05.787>about <00:07:05.942>the <00:07:06.098>fixing <00:07:06.253>the <00:07:06.409>Terraform <00:07:06.565>code.

151
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<00:07:08.045>So <00:07:08.200>of <00:07:08.356>course, <00:07:08.511>there <00:07:08.667>was <00:07:08.822>a <00:07:08.978>lot <00:07:09.133>of <00:07:09.289>work <00:07:09.445>done

152
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<00:07:10.205>around <00:07:10.405>modules <00:07:10.604>in <00:07:10.805>Terraform <00:07:11.005>that <00:07:11.205>they <00:07:11.405>can <00:07:11.604>reuse

153
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<00:07:13.165>and <00:07:13.483>make <00:07:13.801>less <00:07:14.119>mistakes.

154
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<00:07:14.805>Uh, <00:07:14.921>and <00:07:15.038>this <00:07:15.155>is <00:07:15.271>the <00:07:15.388>way <00:07:15.505>to <00:07:15.621>actually <00:07:15.738>also <00:07:15.855>reduce <00:07:15.971>the <00:07:16.088>pr <00:07:16.205>uh,

155
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<00:07:18.825>review <00:07:19.025>time <00:07:19.224>for <00:07:19.425>the <00:07:19.625>infrastructure <00:07:19.825>team, <00:07:20.025>for <00:07:20.224>example.

156
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<00:07:21.765>No, <00:07:21.940>that, <00:07:22.115>that <00:07:22.289>actually <00:07:22.465>makes <00:07:22.640>a <00:07:22.815>lot <00:07:22.990>of <00:07:23.164>sense.

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<00:07:24.125>And <00:07:24.399>it, <00:07:24.674>it, <00:07:24.948>it <00:07:25.223>kind

158
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<00:07:25.345>of <00:07:25.485>leads <00:07:25.625>me <00:07:25.765>directly <00:07:25.905>into <00:07:26.045>the <00:07:26.185>next <00:07:26.325>topic, <00:07:26.465>which <00:07:26.605>is <00:07:26.745>really,

159
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<00:07:28.885>you <00:07:29.380>know, <00:07:29.875>some

160
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<00:07:29.985>of <00:07:30.125>the <00:07:30.265>stuff <00:07:30.405>you <00:07:30.545>are <00:07:30.685>talking <00:07:30.825>about <00:07:30.965>right <00:07:31.105>there <00:07:31.245>is <00:07:31.385>kind

161
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<00:07:32.465>of <00:07:32.620>integrating <00:07:32.776>your <00:07:32.931>tool <00:07:33.087>chains, <00:07:33.242>uh, <00:07:33.398>so <00:07:33.553>that, <00:07:33.709>you <00:07:33.865>know,

162
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<00:07:35.655>they're <00:07:35.810>a <00:07:35.966>bit <00:07:36.121>more <00:07:36.277>streamlined, <00:07:36.432>uh, <00:07:36.588>a <00:07:36.743>bit <00:07:36.899>more <00:07:37.054>focused

163
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<00:07:38.665>around <00:07:39.121>that <00:07:39.577>developer <00:07:40.033>experience.

164
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<00:07:40.185>So <00:07:40.340>they're <00:07:40.496>getting <00:07:40.651>the <00:07:40.807>right <00:07:40.962>information <00:07:41.118>at <00:07:41.273>the <00:07:41.429>right <00:07:41.585>time,

165
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<00:07:43.405>not <00:07:43.604>necessarily <00:07:43.804>getting <00:07:44.005>more <00:07:44.205>work <00:07:44.405>as <00:07:44.604>a <00:07:44.804>result.

166
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<00:07:45.915>Right? <00:07:46.070>And, <00:07:46.226>you <00:07:46.381>know, <00:07:46.537>how <00:07:46.692>does <00:07:46.848>that <00:07:47.003>help <00:07:47.159>drive <00:07:47.315>efficiency?

167
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<00:07:50.175>Because, <00:07:50.330>you <00:07:50.486>know, <00:07:50.641>from <00:07:50.797>above, <00:07:50.952>often <00:07:51.108>the <00:07:51.263>request <00:07:51.419>is <00:07:51.575>no,

168
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<00:07:54.065>we <00:07:54.220>want <00:07:54.376>everyone <00:07:54.531>to <00:07:54.687>be <00:07:54.842>more <00:07:54.998>efficient <00:07:55.153>and <00:07:55.309>more <00:07:55.465>productive.

169
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<00:07:57.205>Um, <00:07:57.344>but, <00:07:57.484>you <00:07:57.625>know, <00:07:57.765>leaning <00:07:57.905>into <00:07:58.044>the <00:07:58.185>other <00:07:58.325>side <00:07:58.465>of <00:07:58.604>it,

170
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<00:08:01.365>you <00:08:01.501>want <00:08:01.637>to <00:08:01.773>do <00:08:01.910>that <00:08:02.046>in <00:08:02.182>a <00:08:02.319>way

171
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<00:08:02.425>that <00:08:02.658>keeps <00:08:02.891>your <00:08:03.125>engineers <00:08:03.358>engaged <00:08:03.591>and <00:08:03.825>evolve.

172
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<00:08:04.765>So, <00:08:04.905>you <00:08:05.044>know, <00:08:05.185>how <00:08:05.325>are <00:08:05.465>you <00:08:05.604>balancing <00:08:05.745>out <00:08:05.885>those <00:08:06.025>two <00:08:06.164>things

173
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<00:08:08.245>and, <00:08:08.470>and <00:08:08.695>how <00:08:08.920>are <00:08:09.145>you, <00:08:09.370>you <00:08:09.595>know,

174
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<00:08:09.765>how <00:08:10.115>is <00:08:10.465>streamlining <00:08:10.815>helping <00:08:11.164>that?

175
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<00:08:13.065>Yeah, <00:08:13.205>so <00:08:13.344>I <00:08:13.485>mean, <00:08:13.625>I <00:08:13.765>think, <00:08:13.905>um, <00:08:14.045>the <00:08:14.185>first <00:08:14.325>thing <00:08:14.465>is

176
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<00:08:15.955>that <00:08:16.110>I've <00:08:16.266>noticed <00:08:16.421>at <00:08:16.577>least <00:08:16.732>when <00:08:16.888>speaking <00:08:17.043>to <00:08:17.199>developers, <00:08:17.354>uh,

177
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<00:08:19.375>or <00:08:19.530>platform <00:08:19.686>engineers, <00:08:19.841>uh, <00:08:19.997>they <00:08:20.152>don't <00:08:20.308>like, <00:08:20.463>uh, <00:08:20.619>you <00:08:20.775>know,

178
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<00:08:22.635>this <00:08:22.810>task <00:08:22.985>of, <00:08:23.159>Hey, <00:08:23.335>I <00:08:23.510>need <00:08:23.685>an <00:08:23.860>EC2 <00:08:24.034>instance.

179
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<00:08:25.335>Uh, <00:08:25.510>please <00:08:25.685>create <00:08:25.859>the <00:08:26.034>CC <00:08:26.210>two <00:08:26.385>instance <00:08:26.560>for <00:08:26.734>me.

180
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<00:08:27.575>So, <00:08:27.702>uh, <00:08:27.829>this <00:08:27.956>is <00:08:28.084>kind <00:08:28.211>of <00:08:28.338>a <00:08:28.465>job <00:08:28.593>that <00:08:28.720>is <00:08:28.847>for <00:08:28.974>them,

181
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<00:08:30.275>just <00:08:30.554>a <00:08:30.832>bit <00:08:31.111>of <00:08:31.390>toil.

182
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<00:08:31.515>Yeah, <00:08:31.670>just <00:08:31.826>we <00:08:31.981>are <00:08:32.137>redoing <00:08:32.292>stuff <00:08:32.448>that <00:08:32.603>they <00:08:32.759>already <00:08:32.914>did.

183
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<00:08:34.215>So <00:08:34.390>I'm <00:08:34.565>always <00:08:34.740>trying <00:08:34.915>to <00:08:35.090>move <00:08:35.265>away <00:08:35.440>from <00:08:35.615>tickets

184
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<00:08:37.135>and <00:08:37.436>actually <00:08:37.738>a <00:08:38.039>self-serve <00:08:38.341>so

185
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<00:08:38.475>that <00:08:38.683>the <00:08:38.892>developers <00:08:39.101>would <00:08:39.310>do <00:08:39.519>it,

186
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<00:08:39.635>but <00:08:39.790>would <00:08:39.946>not <00:08:40.101>do <00:08:40.257>it <00:08:40.412>with, <00:08:40.568>uh, <00:08:40.723>without <00:08:40.879>making <00:08:41.034>mistakes.

187
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<00:08:42.635>Yeah. <00:08:42.775>If <00:08:42.914>it's <00:08:43.054>an <00:08:43.194>RDS <00:08:43.335>of <00:08:43.475>course <00:08:43.615>it <00:08:43.755>shouldn't <00:08:43.895>be <00:08:44.034>open

188
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<00:08:45.295>to <00:08:45.536>the <00:08:45.777>internet <00:08:46.018>and <00:08:46.259>so <00:08:46.501>on.

189
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<00:08:47.135>And <00:08:47.335>this <00:08:47.535>is <00:08:47.735>done <00:08:47.935>by <00:08:48.135>adding <00:08:48.335>some <00:08:48.535>modules,

190
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<00:08:49.755>some, <00:08:49.935>you <00:08:50.115>know, <00:08:50.295>that <00:08:50.475>they <00:08:50.655>can <00:08:50.835>reuse.

191
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<00:08:50.955>But <00:08:51.219>also <00:08:51.483>there's <00:08:51.747>some

192
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<00:08:52.075>security <00:08:52.319>scanning <00:08:52.564>in <00:08:52.809>the <00:08:53.054>build <00:08:53.299>process.

193
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<00:08:53.615>And <00:08:53.895>this <00:08:54.175>leads <00:08:54.455>on <00:08:54.735>one <00:08:55.015>hand

194
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<00:08:56.085>platform <00:08:56.260>engineers <00:08:56.435>can <00:08:56.610>focus <00:08:56.785>on <00:08:56.960>automation <00:08:57.135>and <00:08:57.310>other <00:08:57.485>stuff,

195
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<00:08:58.745>and <00:08:59.064>maybe <00:08:59.384>more <00:08:59.703>complex <00:09:00.022>problems.

196
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<00:09:00.305>And <00:09:00.432>developers <00:09:00.559>do <00:09:00.686>not <00:09:00.814>need <00:09:00.941>to <00:09:01.068>open <00:09:01.195>a <00:09:01.323>ticket <00:09:01.450>in <00:09:01.577>a <00:09:01.704>way.

197
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<00:09:02.725>They <00:09:03.005>actually <00:09:03.285>feel <00:09:03.565>that <00:09:03.845>they're <00:09:04.125>doing

198
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<00:09:04.365>stuff <00:09:04.635>in <00:09:04.905>the <00:09:05.175>right <00:09:05.445>way.

199
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<00:09:07.805>I, <00:09:08.005>I, <00:09:08.204>I <00:09:08.405>think <00:09:08.604>it's <00:09:08.805>coming <00:09:09.005>back <00:09:09.204>to

200
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<00:09:09.555>what <00:09:09.905>I <00:09:10.255>said <00:09:10.604>again <00:09:10.954>before.

201
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<00:09:12.315>It's <00:09:12.548>the <00:09:12.781>question <00:09:13.015>of <00:09:13.248>slowly <00:09:13.481>shifting <00:09:13.715>people

202
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<00:09:16.785>to <00:09:17.406>self-serve <00:09:18.026>themselves.

203
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<00:09:18.555>Like <00:09:18.729>it's, <00:09:18.905>it's <00:09:19.079>depending <00:09:19.255>on <00:09:19.430>the <00:09:19.604>organization, <00:09:19.780>of <00:09:19.954>course,

204
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<00:09:23.065>but <00:09:23.240>if <00:09:23.415>you <00:09:23.590>are <00:09:23.765>used <00:09:23.940>to <00:09:24.115>open <00:09:24.290>a <00:09:24.465>ticket,

205
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<00:09:26.345>you <00:09:26.520>can <00:09:26.695>just <00:09:26.870>take <00:09:27.045>the <00:09:27.220>ticket <00:09:27.395>system <00:09:27.570>from <00:09:27.745>somebody

206
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<00:09:28.565>and <00:09:28.773>say <00:09:28.982>to <00:09:29.191>him, <00:09:29.400>that's <00:09:29.609>it.

207
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<00:09:29.725>It's <00:09:29.900>over. <00:09:30.075>And <00:09:30.250>this <00:09:30.425>demands <00:09:30.600>a <00:09:30.775>lot <00:09:30.950>of <00:09:31.125>delicacy

208
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<00:09:33.665>and <00:09:33.792>in <00:09:33.919>creating <00:09:34.046>some <00:09:34.174>sort <00:09:34.301>of, <00:09:34.428>what <00:09:34.555>I <00:09:34.683>call <00:09:34.810>a <00:09:34.937>safe <00:09:35.064>space.

209
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<00:09:37.185>And <00:09:37.340>what <00:09:37.496>I <00:09:37.651>mean <00:09:37.807>by <00:09:37.962>safe <00:09:38.118>space <00:09:38.273>is <00:09:38.429>a <00:09:38.584>place

210
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<00:09:39.125>where <00:09:39.449>people <00:09:39.773>can <00:09:40.097>make <00:09:40.421>mistakes

211
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<00:09:40.745>and <00:09:40.978>people <00:09:41.211>can <00:09:41.445>be <00:09:41.678>honest <00:09:41.911>about <00:09:42.145>mistakes.

212
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<00:09:42.985>And <00:09:43.185>if <00:09:43.385>people <00:09:43.585>can <00:09:43.785>admit <00:09:43.985>they <00:09:44.185>don't <00:09:44.385>know

213
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<00:09:46.665>and <00:09:47.015>they <00:09:47.365>can <00:09:47.714>experiment, <00:09:48.064>yes,

214
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<00:09:49.485>maybe <00:09:49.660>you <00:09:49.835>don't <00:09:50.010>see <00:09:50.185>the <00:09:50.360>value <00:09:50.535>at <00:09:50.710>the <00:09:50.885>beginning,

215
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<00:09:52.465>but <00:09:52.665>what <00:09:52.865>you <00:09:53.065>get <00:09:53.265>is <00:09:53.465>much <00:09:53.665>more <00:09:53.865>happy.

216
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<00:09:54.765>People <00:09:54.965>who <00:09:55.165>feel <00:09:55.365>more <00:09:55.564>comfortable <00:09:55.765>in <00:09:55.965>the <00:09:56.165>role.

217
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<00:09:58.225>And <00:09:58.425>then <00:09:58.625>there's <00:09:58.825>a <00:09:59.025>different <00:09:59.225>feeling, <00:09:59.425>you <00:09:59.625>know,

218
00:10:01.385 --> 00:10:05.525
<00:10:01.385>and <00:10:01.512>you, <00:10:01.639>you <00:10:01.766>can <00:10:01.894>see <00:10:02.021>it <00:10:02.148>when <00:10:02.275>you <00:10:02.403>start <00:10:02.530>slowly <00:10:02.657>shaping <00:10:02.785>it.

219
00:10:05.525 --> 00:10:07.445
<00:10:05.525>You <00:10:05.699>know, <00:10:05.875>it's, <00:10:06.050>it's <00:10:06.225>not <00:10:06.400>like <00:10:06.574>I'm <00:10:06.750>gonna <00:10:06.925>break

220
00:10:07.445 --> 00:10:08.725
<00:10:07.445>everything <00:10:07.829>and <00:10:08.213>change <00:10:08.597>everything.

221
00:10:09.105 --> 00:10:11.565
<00:10:09.105>That's <00:10:09.338>one <00:10:09.571>of <00:10:09.805>the, <00:10:10.038>I <00:10:10.271>think, <00:10:10.505>wrongdoings

222
00:10:11.565 --> 00:10:13.725
<00:10:11.565>of <00:10:11.798>the <00:10:12.031>DevOps <00:10:12.265>culture, <00:10:12.498>like <00:10:12.731>breaking <00:10:12.965>silos.

223
00:10:14.715 --> 00:10:16.965
<00:10:14.715>It's <00:10:14.915>called <00:10:15.115>silos. <00:10:15.315>'cause <00:10:15.515>people <00:10:15.715>like <00:10:15.915>those <00:10:16.115>silos.

224
00:10:16.995 --> 00:10:19.525
<00:10:16.995>It's, <00:10:17.150>it's <00:10:17.306>very <00:10:17.461>comfortable <00:10:17.617>to <00:10:17.772>be <00:10:17.928>in <00:10:18.083>a <00:10:18.239>silo, <00:10:18.395>right?

225
00:10:19.795 --> 00:10:21.845
<00:10:19.795>Rockets <00:10:19.995>are <00:10:20.194>in <00:10:20.395>silo, <00:10:20.594>grains <00:10:20.795>in <00:10:20.995>a <00:10:21.194>silo.

226
00:10:22.745 --> 00:10:25.685
<00:10:22.745>So <00:10:22.900>if <00:10:23.056>you <00:10:23.211>break <00:10:23.367>the <00:10:23.522>silos, <00:10:23.678>you <00:10:23.833>break <00:10:23.989>the <00:10:24.145>comfort.

227
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<00:10:26.065>And <00:10:26.181>we <00:10:26.298>want <00:10:26.415>people <00:10:26.531>to <00:10:26.648>feel <00:10:26.765>at <00:10:26.881>home <00:10:26.998>when <00:10:27.115>they <00:10:27.231>work <00:10:27.348>with <00:10:27.465>us,

228
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<00:10:29.275>that, <00:10:29.555>that's <00:10:29.834>super <00:10:30.115>important <00:10:30.395>for <00:10:30.675>me.

229
00:10:31.545 --> 00:10:35.365
<00:10:31.545>So <00:10:31.700>this <00:10:31.856>is <00:10:32.011>the <00:10:32.167>stuff <00:10:32.322>I <00:10:32.478>normally <00:10:32.633>check. <00:10:32.789>And <00:10:32.944>yeah,

230
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<00:10:36.425>So <00:10:36.625>it, <00:10:36.824>it's <00:10:37.025>interesting <00:10:37.224>you <00:10:37.425>mentioned <00:10:37.625>about <00:10:37.824>the

231
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<00:10:38.525>innovation <00:10:38.993>spaces <00:10:39.461>thing.

232
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<00:10:39.565>And <00:10:39.705>I, <00:10:39.845>I <00:10:39.985>know <00:10:40.125>we <00:10:40.265>talked <00:10:40.405>about <00:10:40.545>this <00:10:40.685>between <00:10:40.825>us <00:10:40.965>earlier.

233
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<00:10:42.425>So <00:10:42.552>I <00:10:42.679>know <00:10:42.806>when, <00:10:42.934>uh, <00:10:43.061>I <00:10:43.188>was, <00:10:43.315>uh, <00:10:43.443>working <00:10:43.570>with <00:10:43.697>a, <00:10:43.824>a,

234
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<00:10:47.445>a <00:10:47.585>whole <00:10:47.725>raft <00:10:47.865>of <00:10:48.005>development <00:10:48.145>teams <00:10:48.285>in <00:10:48.425>my <00:10:48.565>previous <00:10:48.705>role, <00:10:48.845>um,

235
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<00:10:50.625>one <00:10:50.765>of <00:10:50.905>the <00:10:51.045>things <00:10:51.185>that <00:10:51.325>came <00:10:51.465>up <00:10:51.605>really <00:10:51.745>earliest <00:10:51.885>driving <00:10:52.025>good

236
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<00:10:53.405>developer <00:10:53.605>experience <00:10:53.805>was <00:10:54.005>providing <00:10:54.204>that <00:10:54.405>space <00:10:54.605>for <00:10:54.805>them.

237
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<00:10:56.305>You <00:10:56.479>know, <00:10:56.655>so <00:10:56.829>one <00:10:57.005>of <00:10:57.180>the <00:10:57.354>first <00:10:57.530>self-service <00:10:57.704>things

238
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<00:10:58.445>that <00:10:58.645>we <00:10:58.845>actually <00:10:59.045>delivered <00:10:59.245>was <00:10:59.445>giving <00:10:59.645>them <00:10:59.845>access

239
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<00:11:00.885>to <00:11:01.060>an <00:11:01.235>innovation <00:11:01.410>space <00:11:01.585>where <00:11:01.760>they <00:11:01.935>can <00:11:02.110>actually <00:11:02.285>go

240
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<00:11:03.305>and <00:11:03.444>do <00:11:03.584>stuff <00:11:03.724>where <00:11:03.864>it <00:11:04.005>was <00:11:04.145>isolated <00:11:04.285>from <00:11:04.425>our <00:11:04.564>secure <00:11:04.704>regulated

241
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<00:11:07.085>environments, <00:11:07.285>allowed <00:11:07.485>them <00:11:07.685>to <00:11:07.885>play <00:11:08.085>with <00:11:08.285>things <00:11:08.485>that

242
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<00:11:10.385>we <00:11:10.560>would <00:11:10.735>normally <00:11:10.910>be <00:11:11.085>much <00:11:11.260>more <00:11:11.435>restrictive <00:11:11.610>on <00:11:11.785>so

243
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<00:11:12.685>that <00:11:12.918>they <00:11:13.151>can <00:11:13.385>actually <00:11:13.618>experiment <00:11:13.851>and <00:11:14.084>learn

244
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<00:11:14.665>and <00:11:14.839>try <00:11:15.015>new <00:11:15.189>things, <00:11:15.365>and <00:11:15.540>then <00:11:15.714>make <00:11:15.890>a <00:11:16.064>proposal

245
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<00:11:17.665>to <00:11:17.884>bring <00:11:18.103>them <00:11:18.322>in <00:11:18.540>the <00:11:18.760>product <00:11:18.979>or

246
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<00:11:19.135>bring <00:11:19.411>them <00:11:19.688>into <00:11:19.965>the <00:11:20.242>platform.

247
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<00:11:20.705>So <00:11:20.880>I, <00:11:21.055>you <00:11:21.230>know, <00:11:21.405>completely <00:11:21.580>behind <00:11:21.755>driving <00:11:21.930>that <00:11:22.105>innovation

248
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<00:11:24.665>and <00:11:24.993>creating <00:11:25.322>that <00:11:25.650>safe <00:11:25.979>space.

249
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<00:11:26.825>Um, <00:11:27.105>looping <00:11:27.385>back <00:11:27.665>to <00:11:27.945>those <00:11:28.225>changes

250
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<00:11:30.105>and <00:11:30.280>the <00:11:30.455>streamlining, <00:11:30.630>you <00:11:30.805>know, <00:11:30.980>one <00:11:31.155>of <00:11:31.330>the <00:11:31.505>things

251
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<00:11:33.535>that <00:11:33.768>often <00:11:34.001>happens, <00:11:34.235>uh, <00:11:34.468>is, <00:11:34.701>you <00:11:34.935>know,

252
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<00:11:35.615>especially <00:11:35.867>when <00:11:36.119>you're <00:11:36.371>pulling <00:11:36.623>out <00:11:36.875>metrics

253
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<00:11:37.075>for <00:11:37.275>these <00:11:37.475>things <00:11:37.675>is <00:11:37.875>that, <00:11:38.075>you <00:11:38.275>know, <00:11:38.475>engineers

254
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<00:11:39.475>and <00:11:39.650>developers, <00:11:39.825>platform <00:11:40.000>engineers, <00:11:40.175>they <00:11:40.350>get <00:11:40.525>told <00:11:40.700>they <00:11:40.875>need

255
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<00:11:42.855>to <00:11:43.134>meet <00:11:43.413>a <00:11:43.692>certain <00:11:43.971>metric

256
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<00:11:44.195>or <00:11:44.428>a <00:11:44.661>certain, <00:11:44.895>you <00:11:45.128>know, <00:11:45.361>this <00:11:45.595>is

257
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<00:11:46.015>what <00:11:46.245>the <00:11:46.475>good <00:11:46.706>number <00:11:46.936>is, <00:11:47.166>right?

258
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<00:11:47.475>How <00:11:47.758>do <00:11:48.042>I <00:11:48.325>do <00:11:48.609>that?

259
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<00:11:48.955>But <00:11:49.082>how <00:11:49.209>do <00:11:49.336>you <00:11:49.464>do <00:11:49.591>that <00:11:49.718>without <00:11:49.845>really, <00:11:49.973>you <00:11:50.100>know, <00:11:50.227>kind <00:11:50.355>of,

260
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<00:11:52.755>you <00:11:52.930>want <00:11:53.105>to <00:11:53.280>break <00:11:53.455>away <00:11:53.630>from <00:11:53.805>gaming <00:11:53.980>the <00:11:54.155>system

261
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<00:11:54.705>and <00:11:54.961>actually <00:11:55.218>make <00:11:55.474>sure <00:11:55.731>that

262
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<00:11:55.845>you're <00:11:56.115>getting <00:11:56.385>the <00:11:56.655>right <00:11:56.925>outcomes.

263
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<00:11:57.545>So <00:11:57.719>how <00:11:57.895>do <00:11:58.069>you, <00:11:58.245>if <00:11:58.420>you <00:11:58.594>like, <00:11:58.770>make <00:11:58.944>targets

264
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<00:12:00.445>that <00:12:00.645>might <00:12:00.845>be <00:12:01.045>aligned <00:12:01.245>to <00:12:01.445>a <00:12:01.645>larger <00:12:01.845>strategy

265
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<00:12:02.595>that <00:12:02.795>actually <00:12:02.995>makes <00:12:03.195>sense <00:12:03.395>in <00:12:03.595>terms <00:12:03.795>of <00:12:03.995>outcomes?

266
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<00:12:06.845>Yeah, <00:12:06.985>so <00:12:07.125>I'm <00:12:07.265>not <00:12:07.405>a <00:12:07.545>fan <00:12:07.685>of <00:12:07.825>giving <00:12:07.965>a <00:12:08.105>target <00:12:08.245>metric.

267
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<00:12:10.925>Well, <00:12:11.125>not, <00:12:11.324>not <00:12:11.525>without <00:12:11.724>having <00:12:11.925>some <00:12:12.125>historical <00:12:12.324>data.

268
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<00:12:13.595>And <00:12:13.750>once <00:12:13.906>you <00:12:14.061>start <00:12:14.217>measuring, <00:12:14.372>I <00:12:14.528>mean, <00:12:14.683>uh, <00:12:14.839>whether, <00:12:14.995>uh,

269
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<00:12:16.525>what <00:12:16.758>is <00:12:16.991>the <00:12:17.225>right <00:12:17.458>SLA <00:12:17.691>for <00:12:17.925>vulnerabilities,

270
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<00:12:18.675>or <00:12:18.814>let's <00:12:18.954>say <00:12:19.094>what <00:12:19.234>is <00:12:19.375>the <00:12:19.515>right <00:12:19.655>SLA <00:12:19.795>for <00:12:19.935>the <00:12:20.074>amount

271
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<00:12:21.175>of <00:12:21.499>deployments <00:12:21.823>per <00:12:22.146>day?

272
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<00:12:22.255>Because, <00:12:22.395>uh, <00:12:22.535>in <00:12:22.675>our <00:12:22.814>industry, <00:12:22.955>yeah, <00:12:23.095>if <00:12:23.235>you <00:12:23.375>have <00:12:23.515>a <00:12:23.655>lot

273
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<00:12:24.615>of <00:12:24.848>deployments, <00:12:25.081>it's <00:12:25.315>considered <00:12:25.548>like <00:12:25.781>everything's <00:12:26.015>great,

274
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<00:12:27.675>but <00:12:27.937>it's <00:12:28.200>not <00:12:28.463>always <00:12:28.726>the <00:12:28.989>case.

275
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<00:12:29.835>Uh, <00:12:30.068>we <00:12:30.301>have <00:12:30.535>different <00:12:30.768>products, <00:12:31.001>different <00:12:31.235>teams,

276
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<00:12:33.115>and <00:12:33.353>I <00:12:33.592>think <00:12:33.830>what's <00:12:34.069>important

277
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<00:12:34.175>with <00:12:34.408>having <00:12:34.641>metrics <00:12:34.875>measuring <00:12:35.108>stuff <00:12:35.341>is <00:12:35.574>first

278
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<00:12:36.495>of <00:12:36.845>all <00:12:37.195>to <00:12:37.545>understand <00:12:37.895>them.

279
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<00:12:38.525>Yeah. <00:12:38.680>We, <00:12:38.836>we <00:12:38.991>see <00:12:39.147>sometimes <00:12:39.302>some <00:12:39.458>teams <00:12:39.613>are <00:12:39.769>deploying, <00:12:39.925>uh,

280
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<00:12:41.445>more <00:12:41.726>frequently, <00:12:42.007>it <00:12:42.288>makes <00:12:42.570>sense.

281
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<00:12:42.695>They're <00:12:42.895>running <00:12:43.095>in <00:12:43.295>a <00:12:43.495>certain <00:12:43.695>environment <00:12:43.895>in <00:12:44.095>Kubernetes.

282
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<00:12:44.775>They <00:12:44.975>do <00:12:45.175>small, <00:12:45.375>uh, <00:12:45.574>small <00:12:45.775>and <00:12:45.975>stable <00:12:46.175>releases.

283
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<00:12:48.955>But <00:12:49.186>I <00:12:49.417>have <00:12:49.648>also <00:12:49.879>some <00:12:50.110>mobile <00:12:50.341>teams,

284
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<00:12:50.515>and <00:12:50.748>I <00:12:50.981>have <00:12:51.215>some, <00:12:51.448>uh, <00:12:51.681>bigger <00:12:51.915>monolith,

285
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<00:12:52.535>maybe <00:12:52.768>more <00:12:53.001>legacy <00:12:53.235>applications <00:12:53.468>than <00:12:53.701>they <00:12:53.935>do.

286
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<00:12:54.415>They <00:12:54.555>have <00:12:54.694>the <00:12:54.834>deployment <00:12:54.974>once <00:12:55.115>a <00:12:55.255>week, <00:12:55.395>once <00:12:55.535>every <00:12:55.675>two <00:12:55.814>weeks.

287
00:12:57.795 --> 00:13:00.335
<00:12:57.795>And <00:12:57.969>that's <00:12:58.145>okay. <00:12:58.319>I <00:12:58.495>mean, <00:12:58.670>it's, <00:12:58.844>uh, <00:12:59.020>it's <00:12:59.194>important

288
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<00:13:00.335>that <00:13:00.490>we <00:13:00.646>know <00:13:00.801>that <00:13:00.957>it's <00:13:01.112>important <00:13:01.268>that <00:13:01.423>we <00:13:01.579>see <00:13:01.735>it.

289
00:13:02.355 --> 00:13:03.935
<00:13:02.355>We <00:13:02.510>ask <00:13:02.666>the <00:13:02.821>right <00:13:02.977>questions. <00:13:03.132>Why <00:13:03.288>is <00:13:03.443>it <00:13:03.599>like <00:13:03.755>this?

290
00:13:04.195 --> 00:13:06.095
<00:13:04.195>Is <00:13:04.428>it <00:13:04.661>expected? <00:13:04.895>Is <00:13:05.128>it <00:13:05.361>not <00:13:05.595>expected?

291
00:13:06.715 --> 00:13:08.615
<00:13:06.715>Uh, <00:13:06.855>and <00:13:06.995>based <00:13:07.135>on <00:13:07.275>that, <00:13:07.415>at <00:13:07.555>least <00:13:07.695>we <00:13:07.835>can <00:13:07.975>have <00:13:08.115>a,

292
00:13:08.915 --> 00:13:10.055
<00:13:08.915>an <00:13:09.428>intelligent <00:13:09.940>discussion

293
00:13:10.055 --> 00:13:12.895
<00:13:10.055>and <00:13:10.171>not <00:13:10.288>just, <00:13:10.405>yeah, <00:13:10.521>I <00:13:10.638>kind <00:13:10.755>of <00:13:10.871>feel <00:13:10.988>that <00:13:11.104>the <00:13:11.221>team <00:13:11.338>is <00:13:11.454>slow.

294
00:13:12.895 --> 00:13:15.175
<00:13:12.895>This, <00:13:13.035>this <00:13:13.175>is, <00:13:13.314>I <00:13:13.454>mean, <00:13:13.595>you <00:13:13.735>know, <00:13:13.875>the <00:13:14.015>manager <00:13:14.155>would <00:13:14.295>come

295
00:13:15.175 --> 00:13:17.295
<00:13:15.175>to <00:13:15.349>you, <00:13:15.525>I <00:13:15.699>feel <00:13:15.875>like <00:13:16.050>this <00:13:16.224>team <00:13:16.400>is <00:13:16.574>underperforming,

296
00:13:17.295 --> 00:13:19.135
<00:13:17.295>but <00:13:17.528>how <00:13:17.761>do <00:13:17.995>you, <00:13:18.228>what <00:13:18.461>is <00:13:18.694>performance?

297
00:13:19.195 --> 00:13:21.335
<00:13:19.195>How <00:13:19.350>do <00:13:19.506>you <00:13:19.661>measure <00:13:19.817>that? <00:13:19.972>So <00:13:20.128>I <00:13:20.283>think <00:13:20.439>this <00:13:20.595>is

298
00:13:21.335 --> 00:13:22.455
<00:13:21.335>where <00:13:21.536>the <00:13:21.738>metrics <00:13:21.939>come <00:13:22.141>into <00:13:22.343>play,

299
00:13:23.035 --> 00:13:25.575
<00:13:23.035>and <00:13:23.190>then <00:13:23.346>you <00:13:23.501>can <00:13:23.657>maybe <00:13:23.812>set <00:13:23.968>a <00:13:24.123>certain <00:13:24.279>baseline <00:13:24.435>or,

300
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<00:13:26.355>but <00:13:26.530>it's <00:13:26.705>not <00:13:26.880>a, <00:13:27.055>a <00:13:27.230>global <00:13:27.405>thing <00:13:27.580>for <00:13:27.755>everybody.

301
00:13:30.115 --> 00:13:31.135
<00:13:30.115>So <00:13:30.421>my, <00:13:30.727>my <00:13:31.033>metrics,

302
00:13:31.415 --> 00:13:33.535
<00:13:31.415>I <00:13:31.570>think <00:13:31.726>you <00:13:31.881>can <00:13:32.037>see <00:13:32.192>my <00:13:32.348>theme <00:13:32.503>is, <00:13:32.659>is <00:13:32.814>different.

303
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<00:13:34.475>For <00:13:34.650>example, <00:13:34.825>let's <00:13:35.000>say <00:13:35.175>production <00:13:35.350>is <00:13:35.525>down, <00:13:35.700>I'm <00:13:35.875>checking

304
00:13:39.675 --> 00:13:42.895
<00:13:39.675>how <00:13:39.875>many <00:13:40.074>people <00:13:40.275>jump <00:13:40.474>to <00:13:40.675>save <00:13:40.875>the <00:13:41.074>day

305
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<00:13:43.875>and <00:13:44.277>what's <00:13:44.679>the <00:13:45.081>correlation.

306
00:13:46.155 --> 00:13:48.295
<00:13:46.155>And <00:13:46.355>I <00:13:46.555>want <00:13:46.755>to <00:13:46.954>check <00:13:47.155>this <00:13:47.355>over <00:13:47.555>time.

307
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<00:13:48.995>So <00:13:49.111>I <00:13:49.228>wanna <00:13:49.345>see <00:13:49.461>if <00:13:49.578>they <00:13:49.695>call <00:13:49.811>the <00:13:49.928>right <00:13:50.045>people <00:13:50.161>who <00:13:50.278>is <00:13:50.395>jumping

308
00:13:53.515 --> 00:13:56.415
<00:13:53.515>and <00:13:53.670>if <00:13:53.826>the <00:13:53.981>group <00:13:54.137>grows <00:13:54.292>and <00:13:54.448>the <00:13:54.603>group <00:13:54.759>doesn't <00:13:54.915>grow.

309
00:13:57.355 --> 00:13:59.055
<00:13:57.355>And <00:13:57.635>that <00:13:57.915>shows <00:13:58.195>in <00:13:58.475>a <00:13:58.755>way

310
00:13:59.285 --> 00:14:02.375
<00:13:59.285>that <00:13:59.425>the <00:13:59.564>strategy <00:13:59.704>we <00:13:59.844>talked <00:13:59.985>about <00:14:00.125>in <00:14:00.265>the <00:14:00.405>last <00:14:00.545>question <00:14:00.685>is

311
00:14:02.375 --> 00:14:06.255
<00:14:02.375>working <00:14:02.502>or <00:14:02.629>not, <00:14:02.756>because <00:14:02.884>do <00:14:03.011>they <00:14:03.138>feel <00:14:03.265>safe <00:14:03.393>to <00:14:03.520>save <00:14:03.647>the <00:14:03.775>day?

312
00:14:06.515 --> 00:14:08.935
<00:14:06.515>Or <00:14:06.670>is <00:14:06.826>it <00:14:06.981>just <00:14:07.137>the <00:14:07.292>mega, <00:14:07.448>mega, <00:14:07.603>mega <00:14:07.759>senior <00:14:07.915>people?

313
00:14:09.635 --> 00:14:12.575
<00:14:09.635>So <00:14:09.775>just <00:14:09.915>one <00:14:10.055>example <00:14:10.194>of <00:14:10.335>how, <00:14:10.475>how <00:14:10.615>I <00:14:10.755>see <00:14:10.895>these <00:14:11.035>things.

314
00:14:13.195 --> 00:14:15.535
<00:14:13.195>And <00:14:13.350>the <00:14:13.506>other <00:14:13.661>question <00:14:13.817>is, <00:14:13.972>who <00:14:14.128>is <00:14:14.283>joining <00:14:14.439>the <00:14:14.595>postmortem?

315
00:14:16.115 --> 00:14:19.175
<00:14:16.115>And <00:14:16.270>do <00:14:16.426>you <00:14:16.581>understand <00:14:16.737>what <00:14:16.892>people <00:14:17.048>say <00:14:17.203>in <00:14:17.359>the <00:14:17.515>postmortem?

316
00:14:19.175 --> 00:14:22.375
<00:14:19.175>Do <00:14:19.408>you <00:14:19.641>feel <00:14:19.875>that <00:14:20.108>there's <00:14:20.341>real <00:14:20.574>understandable

317
00:14:22.885 --> 00:14:27.115
<00:14:22.885>executional <00:14:23.351>work <00:14:23.818>to <00:14:24.285>do?

318
00:14:27.425 --> 00:14:30.595
<00:14:27.425>Like, <00:14:27.599>fix <00:14:27.775>this, <00:14:27.949>do <00:14:28.125>this? <00:14:28.300>Or <00:14:28.474>is <00:14:28.650>it <00:14:28.824>symptomatic?

319
00:14:30.855 --> 00:14:35.515
<00:14:30.855>So, <00:14:30.955>um, <00:14:31.055>like <00:14:31.155>I <00:14:31.255>said, <00:14:31.355>I <00:14:31.455>I, <00:14:31.555>I'm, <00:14:31.655>I'm <00:14:31.755>a <00:14:31.855>historian, <00:14:31.955>so <00:14:32.055>I, <00:14:32.155>I <00:14:32.255>am,

320
00:14:35.835 --> 00:14:37.515
<00:14:35.835>I <00:14:36.115>come <00:14:36.395>from <00:14:36.675>strong <00:14:36.955>engineering <00:14:37.235>background,

321
00:14:37.535 --> 00:14:40.795
<00:14:37.535>but <00:14:37.662>my <00:14:37.789>belief <00:14:37.916>is <00:14:38.044>that <00:14:38.171>a <00:14:38.298>lot <00:14:38.425>of <00:14:38.553>these <00:14:38.680>problems, <00:14:38.807>they <00:14:38.935>are,

322
00:14:41.255 --> 00:14:42.795
<00:14:41.255>we <00:14:41.486>can <00:14:41.717>solve <00:14:41.948>them <00:14:42.179>while <00:14:42.410>talking <00:14:42.641>and,

323
00:14:43.055 --> 00:14:44.275
<00:14:43.055>and <00:14:43.420>understanding <00:14:43.786>each <00:14:44.153>other,

324
00:14:44.615 --> 00:14:47.795
<00:14:44.615>and <00:14:44.742>then <00:14:44.869>we <00:14:44.996>can <00:14:45.124>make <00:14:45.251>the <00:14:45.378>tools <00:14:45.505>do <00:14:45.633>what <00:14:45.760>we <00:14:45.887>want. <00:14:46.015>So,

325
00:14:48.375 --> 00:14:49.635
<00:14:48.375>So, <00:14:48.753>so <00:14:49.131>it's <00:14:49.509>interesting

326
00:14:49.755 --> 00:14:51.405
<00:14:49.755>'cause <00:14:49.955>you're <00:14:50.155>both <00:14:50.355>coming <00:14:50.555>in <00:14:50.755>it <00:14:50.955>kind <00:14:51.155>of,

327
00:14:51.405 --> 00:14:52.485
<00:14:51.405>almost <00:14:51.729>from <00:14:52.053>different <00:14:52.377>size.

328
00:14:52.505 --> 00:14:54.445
<00:14:52.505>But <00:14:52.645>the <00:14:52.785>one <00:14:52.925>thing <00:14:53.064>I <00:14:53.205>would <00:14:53.345>pick <00:14:53.485>out <00:14:53.625>from <00:14:53.765>that <00:14:53.905>is

329
00:14:54.445 --> 00:14:57.085
<00:14:54.445>that <00:14:54.725>context <00:14:55.005>is <00:14:55.285>everything, <00:14:55.565>you <00:14:55.845>know?

330
00:14:57.145 --> 00:14:58.725
<00:14:57.145>So <00:14:57.378>when <00:14:57.611>you're <00:14:57.845>talking <00:14:58.078>about <00:14:58.311>some <00:14:58.545>teams

331
00:14:58.725 --> 00:15:00.925
<00:14:58.725>that <00:14:58.958>are <00:14:59.191>deploying <00:14:59.425>regularly <00:14:59.658>or <00:14:59.891>less <00:15:00.125>regularly,

332
00:15:01.065 --> 00:15:04.645
<00:15:01.065>or, <00:15:01.220>you <00:15:01.376>know, <00:15:01.531>the <00:15:01.687>context <00:15:01.842>of <00:15:01.998>that <00:15:02.153>application <00:15:02.309>is <00:15:02.465>important,

333
00:15:05.185 --> 00:15:08.325
<00:15:05.185>and <00:15:05.359>being <00:15:05.535>able <00:15:05.709>to <00:15:05.885>relay <00:15:06.060>that <00:15:06.234>information <00:15:06.410>upwards, <00:15:06.584>uh,

334
00:15:08.815 --> 00:15:11.925
<00:15:08.815>makes <00:15:08.970>sense <00:15:09.126>so <00:15:09.281>that <00:15:09.437>you <00:15:09.592>can <00:15:09.748>say, <00:15:09.903>yes, <00:15:10.059>it's <00:15:10.215>okay

335
00:15:11.925 --> 00:15:14.285
<00:15:11.925>that <00:15:12.099>they <00:15:12.275>do <00:15:12.449>this <00:15:12.625>and <00:15:12.800>this <00:15:12.974>is <00:15:13.150>their <00:15:13.324>baseline

336
00:15:14.385 --> 00:15:15.725
<00:15:14.385>and <00:15:14.686>they're <00:15:14.988>not <00:15:15.289>getting <00:15:15.591>worse,

337
00:15:15.785 --> 00:15:16.965
<00:15:15.785>and <00:15:15.997>they <00:15:16.209>maybe <00:15:16.422>are <00:15:16.634>getting <00:15:16.847>better.

338
00:15:17.505 --> 00:15:19.325
<00:15:17.505>But <00:15:17.738>it, <00:15:17.971>uh, <00:15:18.205>context <00:15:18.438>does <00:15:18.671>mean <00:15:18.905>everything.

339
00:15:19.345 --> 00:15:22.245
<00:15:19.345>But <00:15:19.520>that <00:15:19.695>also <00:15:19.870>applies <00:15:20.045>to <00:15:20.220>the, <00:15:20.395>the <00:15:20.570>same <00:15:20.745>side

340
00:15:22.245 --> 00:15:23.285
<00:15:22.245>for <00:15:22.557>you <00:15:22.869>too, <00:15:23.180>right?

341
00:15:23.545 --> 00:15:26.085
<00:15:23.545>The <00:15:23.824>context <00:15:24.104>of <00:15:24.385>the <00:15:24.665>situation <00:15:24.944>and,

342
00:15:26.265 --> 00:15:27.405
<00:15:26.265>and <00:15:26.521>how <00:15:26.778>you're <00:15:27.034>measuring <00:15:27.290>that

343
00:15:27.425 --> 00:15:29.245
<00:15:27.425>and <00:15:27.658>the <00:15:27.891>success <00:15:28.125>and <00:15:28.358>failure <00:15:28.591>of <00:15:28.824>that.

344
00:15:29.915 --> 00:15:32.845
<00:15:29.915>Yeah. <00:15:30.055>And, <00:15:30.194>and <00:15:30.334>you <00:15:30.474>can <00:15:30.615>actually <00:15:30.755>feel <00:15:30.895>it <00:15:31.035>when, <00:15:31.175>for <00:15:31.314>example,

345
00:15:32.995 --> 00:15:35.245
<00:15:32.995>okay, <00:15:33.170>somebody <00:15:33.345>has <00:15:33.520>to <00:15:33.695>talk <00:15:33.870>about <00:15:34.045>AI <00:15:34.220>here, <00:15:34.395>right?

346
00:15:35.385 --> 00:15:37.045
<00:15:35.385>So <00:15:35.618>I'll <00:15:35.851>talk <00:15:36.085>a <00:15:36.318>bit <00:15:36.551>about <00:15:36.785>ai.

347
00:15:37.515 --> 00:15:40.885
<00:15:37.515>When <00:15:37.642>you <00:15:37.769>work <00:15:37.896>a <00:15:38.024>little <00:15:38.151>bit <00:15:38.278>with <00:15:38.405>ai, <00:15:38.533>you, <00:15:38.660>you <00:15:38.787>can <00:15:38.915>feel

348
00:15:40.885 --> 00:15:42.165
<00:15:40.885>how <00:15:41.173>much <00:15:41.461>context <00:15:41.749>it's <00:15:42.036>missing

349
00:15:42.665 --> 00:15:44.325
<00:15:42.665>and <00:15:42.898>that <00:15:43.131>come <00:15:43.365>back <00:15:43.598>to <00:15:43.831>the <00:15:44.064>same

350
00:15:45.585 --> 00:15:47.245
<00:15:45.585>one <00:15:45.865>tool <00:15:46.145>fix <00:15:46.425>everything <00:15:46.705>for <00:15:46.985>me.

351
00:15:47.545 --> 00:15:49.445
<00:15:47.545>Um, <00:15:47.778>for <00:15:48.011>example, <00:15:48.245>I <00:15:48.478>was <00:15:48.711>a <00:15:48.944>consultant

352
00:15:49.585 --> 00:15:53.085
<00:15:49.585>and <00:15:49.740>for <00:15:49.896>five <00:15:50.051>years <00:15:50.207>I <00:15:50.362>told <00:15:50.518>people, <00:15:50.673>don't <00:15:50.829>use <00:15:50.985>Kubernetes.

353
00:15:53.515 --> 00:15:55.085
<00:15:53.515>That <00:15:53.748>was <00:15:53.981>the <00:15:54.215>main <00:15:54.448>thing <00:15:54.681>I <00:15:54.915>did,

354
00:15:55.395 --> 00:15:59.285
<00:15:55.395>because <00:15:55.675>not <00:15:55.954>one <00:15:56.235>medicine <00:15:56.515>fits <00:15:56.795>everybody.

355
00:15:59.385 --> 00:16:01.965
<00:15:59.385>So <00:15:59.560>it's <00:15:59.735>just <00:15:59.910>making <00:16:00.085>your <00:16:00.260>message <00:16:00.435>a <00:16:00.610>bit <00:16:00.785>stronger.

356
00:16:02.075 --> 00:16:05.965
<00:16:02.075>Like <00:16:02.230>assess <00:16:02.386>what <00:16:02.541>you <00:16:02.697>have, <00:16:02.852>assess <00:16:03.008>what <00:16:03.163>you <00:16:03.319>really <00:16:03.475>need,

357
00:16:07.215 --> 00:16:08.875
<00:16:07.215>see <00:16:07.390>who <00:16:07.565>are <00:16:07.740>the <00:16:07.915>people <00:16:08.090>you <00:16:08.265>are <00:16:08.440>working <00:16:08.615>with,

358
00:16:08.975 --> 00:16:10.195
<00:16:08.975>what's <00:16:09.341>your <00:16:09.707>business <00:16:10.073>metrics.

359
00:16:10.575 --> 00:16:13.315
<00:16:10.575>And <00:16:10.808>then <00:16:11.041>it's <00:16:11.275>more <00:16:11.508>easy, <00:16:11.741>you <00:16:11.975>know?

360
00:16:15.195 --> 00:16:16.835
<00:16:15.195>'cause <00:16:15.428>you're <00:16:15.661>most <00:16:15.895>likely <00:16:16.128>you're <00:16:16.361>not <00:16:16.595>Netflix.

361
00:16:18.065 --> 00:16:19.155
<00:16:18.065>Yeah, <00:16:18.392>absolutely. <00:16:18.719>I <00:16:19.045>agree.

362
00:16:19.575 --> 00:16:21.595
<00:16:19.575>And <00:16:19.808>I <00:16:20.041>think, <00:16:20.275>uh, <00:16:20.508>yeah, <00:16:20.741>it <00:16:20.975>very,

363
00:16:21.625 --> 00:16:23.395
<00:16:21.625>exactly <00:16:21.975>the <00:16:22.325>context, <00:16:22.675>it <00:16:23.025>varies.

364
00:16:23.415 --> 00:16:26.155
<00:16:23.415>It <00:16:23.555>varies <00:16:23.694>on <00:16:23.834>the <00:16:23.974>product, <00:16:24.115>your <00:16:24.255>risk <00:16:24.395>appetite, <00:16:24.535>uh, <00:16:24.675>you <00:16:24.814>know,

365
00:16:26.155 --> 00:16:27.195
<00:16:26.155>what, <00:16:26.342>what <00:16:26.529>are <00:16:26.716>you <00:16:26.903>aiming <00:16:27.091>for?

366
00:16:27.215 --> 00:16:29.035
<00:16:27.215>So <00:16:27.565>of <00:16:27.915>course, <00:16:28.265>uh, <00:16:28.615>yeah.

367
00:16:30.895 --> 00:16:33.515
<00:16:30.895>So <00:16:31.245>I, <00:16:31.595>we, <00:16:31.944>we've <00:16:32.295>skirted

368
00:16:33.515 --> 00:16:35.515
<00:16:33.515>around <00:16:33.689>this <00:16:33.865>a <00:16:34.040>little <00:16:34.215>bit, <00:16:34.390>uh, <00:16:34.564>along <00:16:34.740>the <00:16:34.915>way.

369
00:16:35.975 --> 00:16:40.035
<00:16:35.975>Um, <00:16:36.102>but <00:16:36.229>I <00:16:36.356>kind <00:16:36.484>of <00:16:36.611>really <00:16:36.738>want <00:16:36.865>to <00:16:36.993>join <00:16:37.120>the <00:16:37.247>dots <00:16:37.375>between,

370
00:16:40.215 --> 00:16:44.755
<00:16:40.215>you <00:16:40.390>know, <00:16:40.565>a <00:16:40.740>kind <00:16:40.915>of <00:16:41.090>organizational <00:16:41.265>vision, <00:16:41.440>you <00:16:41.615>know,

371
00:16:44.775 --> 00:16:47.035
<00:16:44.775>or <00:16:45.008>a <00:16:45.241>leadership <00:16:45.475>vision <00:16:45.708>of <00:16:45.941>we <00:16:46.175>want

372
00:16:47.035 --> 00:16:49.155
<00:16:47.035>to <00:16:47.235>release <00:16:47.435>more <00:16:47.635>features <00:16:47.834>to <00:16:48.035>our <00:16:48.235>customers <00:16:48.435>faster.

373
00:16:49.335 --> 00:16:51.875
<00:16:49.335>We <00:16:49.535>want <00:16:49.735>our <00:16:49.935>software <00:16:50.135>to <00:16:50.335>be <00:16:50.535>more <00:16:50.735>reliable.

374
00:16:52.415 --> 00:16:54.715
<00:16:52.415>We <00:16:52.615>wanna <00:16:52.814>make <00:16:53.015>sure <00:16:53.214>that <00:16:53.415>we're <00:16:53.615>always <00:16:53.814>compliant,

375
00:16:55.135 --> 00:16:56.275
<00:16:55.135>is <00:16:55.391>the <00:16:55.648>vision <00:16:55.904>from <00:16:56.161>above.

376
00:16:56.415 --> 00:16:58.275
<00:16:56.415>And <00:16:56.648>then <00:16:56.881>you <00:16:57.115>have <00:16:57.348>your <00:16:57.581>kind <00:16:57.814>of,

377
00:16:58.375 --> 00:17:00.435
<00:16:58.375>the <00:16:58.608>way <00:16:58.841>the <00:16:59.075>organization <00:16:59.308>works, <00:16:59.541>the <00:16:59.775>culture

378
00:17:00.695 --> 00:17:03.315
<00:17:00.695>of <00:17:00.928>the <00:17:01.161>organization, <00:17:01.395>and, <00:17:01.628>uh, <00:17:01.861>you <00:17:02.095>know,

379
00:17:03.335 --> 00:17:04.875
<00:17:03.335>how <00:17:03.681>engineers <00:17:04.028>are <00:17:04.374>working <00:17:04.721>today.

380
00:17:05.335 --> 00:17:09.675
<00:17:05.335>And <00:17:05.490>really <00:17:05.646>there <00:17:05.801>is <00:17:05.957>a <00:17:06.112>people <00:17:06.268>piece <00:17:06.423>in <00:17:06.579>the <00:17:06.735>middle

381
00:17:10.025 --> 00:17:14.235
<00:17:10.025>that <00:17:10.165>says, <00:17:10.305>okay, <00:17:10.445>how <00:17:10.585>do <00:17:10.725>you <00:17:10.865>align <00:17:11.005>that <00:17:11.145>strategic <00:17:11.285>vision, <00:17:11.425>uh,

382
00:17:14.345 --> 00:17:17.635
<00:17:14.345>with <00:17:14.485>that <00:17:14.625>the <00:17:14.765>way <00:17:14.905>the <00:17:15.045>culture <00:17:15.185>of <00:17:15.325>the <00:17:15.464>organization <00:17:15.605>works, <00:17:15.745>so

383
00:17:17.635 --> 00:17:19.875
<00:17:17.635>that <00:17:17.835>actually <00:17:18.035>the <00:17:18.234>culture <00:17:18.435>is <00:17:18.635>delivering <00:17:18.835>the <00:17:19.035>outcomes

384
00:17:20.705 --> 00:17:23.035
<00:17:20.704>that <00:17:20.984>you, <00:17:21.264>that <00:17:21.544>the <00:17:21.824>leadership <00:17:22.105>wants.

385
00:17:23.415 --> 00:17:25.795
<00:17:23.415>So, <00:17:23.555>you <00:17:23.694>know, <00:17:23.835>how <00:17:23.974>are <00:17:24.115>you <00:17:24.254>tying <00:17:24.395>those <00:17:24.534>two <00:17:24.675>things <00:17:24.815>together?

386
00:17:26.505 --> 00:17:27.555
<00:17:26.505>Yeah, <00:17:26.741>it's <00:17:26.977>a <00:17:27.213>good <00:17:27.450>question.

387
00:17:27.955 --> 00:17:30.595
<00:17:27.954>I, <00:17:28.129>you <00:17:28.304>know, <00:17:28.480>uh, <00:17:28.655>you <00:17:28.830>know, <00:17:29.004>I <00:17:29.179>hope, <00:17:29.355>uh,

388
00:17:30.695 --> 00:17:32.675
<00:17:30.695>nobody <00:17:30.928>from <00:17:31.161>my <00:17:31.395>company <00:17:31.628>would <00:17:31.861>hear <00:17:32.095>me,

389
00:17:32.675 --> 00:17:34.355
<00:17:32.675>but, <00:17:32.850>uh, <00:17:33.024>I'm <00:17:33.200>not <00:17:33.375>a <00:17:33.550>fan <00:17:33.725>of <00:17:33.899>compliance, <00:17:34.075>right?

390
00:17:34.355 --> 00:17:36.555
<00:17:34.355>Like, <00:17:34.471>I <00:17:34.588>think <00:17:34.705>it's <00:17:34.821>a <00:17:34.938>really <00:17:35.055>an, <00:17:35.171>uh, <00:17:35.288>you <00:17:35.405>know, <00:17:35.521>a <00:17:35.638>buzz <00:17:35.755>killer.

391
00:17:36.555 --> 00:17:38.875
<00:17:36.555>Yeah. <00:17:36.730>It's <00:17:36.905>a <00:17:37.080>bit <00:17:37.255>of <00:17:37.430>a, <00:17:37.605>it's <00:17:37.780>a <00:17:37.955>bit

392
00:17:38.995 --> 00:17:42.915
<00:17:38.995>of <00:17:39.150>a <00:17:39.306>we <00:17:39.461>innovation <00:17:39.617>killer <00:17:39.772>sometimes, <00:17:39.928>but, <00:17:40.083>uh, <00:17:40.239>you <00:17:40.395>know,

393
00:17:42.915 --> 00:17:44.035
<00:17:42.915>and <00:17:43.419>that's <00:17:43.923>expensive.

394
00:17:44.035 --> 00:17:46.275
<00:17:44.035>But, <00:17:44.235>but <00:17:44.435>what's, <00:17:44.635>what's <00:17:44.835>more <00:17:45.035>expensive <00:17:45.235>than <00:17:45.435>compliance,

395
00:17:46.375 --> 00:17:47.675
<00:17:46.375>non-compliance, <00:17:47.545>right?

396
00:17:47.735 --> 00:17:49.845
<00:17:47.735>So <00:17:47.935>you <00:17:48.135>kind <00:17:48.334>of <00:17:48.534>have <00:17:48.735>to <00:17:48.935>do <00:17:49.135>it.

397
00:17:50.105 --> 00:17:53.805
<00:17:50.105>Um, <00:17:50.232>the <00:17:50.359>question <00:17:50.486>is <00:17:50.614>then <00:17:50.741>how <00:17:50.868>do <00:17:50.995>you <00:17:51.123>make <00:17:51.250>work <00:17:51.377>not <00:17:51.505>suck?

398
00:17:54.115 --> 00:17:55.765
<00:17:54.115>Yeah. <00:17:54.315>How <00:17:54.515>do <00:17:54.715>you <00:17:54.915>make <00:17:55.115>it <00:17:55.315>work <00:17:55.515>so

399
00:17:55.765 --> 00:17:57.765
<00:17:55.765>that <00:17:55.998>developers <00:17:56.231>could <00:17:56.465>still <00:17:56.698>experiment <00:17:56.931>with <00:17:57.165>things,

400
00:17:58.545 --> 00:18:01.445
<00:17:58.545>but <00:17:58.700>we <00:17:58.856>don't <00:17:59.011>want <00:17:59.167>to <00:17:59.322>ruin, <00:17:59.478>uh, <00:17:59.633>you <00:17:59.789>know, <00:17:59.945>production.

401
00:18:01.445 --> 00:18:02.605
<00:18:01.445>We <00:18:01.594>don't <00:18:01.743>want <00:18:01.892>to, <00:18:02.041>we <00:18:02.190>have <00:18:02.339>a <00:18:02.489>lot

402
00:18:02.605 --> 00:18:03.765
<00:18:02.605>of <00:18:02.813>merchants <00:18:03.022>that <00:18:03.231>rely <00:18:03.440>on <00:18:03.649>us.

403
00:18:04.585 --> 00:18:07.325
<00:18:04.585>Uh, <00:18:04.760>so <00:18:04.935>maybe <00:18:05.110>coming <00:18:05.285>back <00:18:05.460>to <00:18:05.635>what <00:18:05.810>you've <00:18:05.985>mentioned

404
00:18:07.445 --> 00:18:09.405
<00:18:07.445>that <00:18:07.645>you've <00:18:07.845>created <00:18:08.044>kind <00:18:08.245>of <00:18:08.445>an <00:18:08.645>innovation <00:18:08.845>space

405
00:18:09.465 --> 00:18:10.645
<00:18:09.465>for, <00:18:09.995>uh, <00:18:10.527>developers.

406
00:18:10.645 --> 00:18:12.085
<00:18:10.645>Yeah. <00:18:11.077>We <00:18:11.509>have, <00:18:11.941>yeah.

407
00:18:12.085 --> 00:18:13.325
<00:18:12.085>We <00:18:12.364>have <00:18:12.643>the <00:18:12.922>production <00:18:13.201>environment,

408
00:18:13.325 --> 00:18:14.565
<00:18:13.325>then <00:18:13.548>we <00:18:13.771>have <00:18:13.994>the <00:18:14.217>lower <00:18:14.441>environments,

409
00:18:14.665 --> 00:18:17.965
<00:18:14.665>but <00:18:14.805>we <00:18:14.945>also <00:18:15.085>have <00:18:15.225>a <00:18:15.365>sandbox <00:18:15.504>environment <00:18:15.645>in <00:18:15.784>which <00:18:15.925>you <00:18:16.065>can

410
00:18:18.405 --> 00:18:19.805
<00:18:18.405>actually <00:18:18.585>work <00:18:18.765>on <00:18:18.945>and <00:18:19.125>you <00:18:19.305>get <00:18:19.485>the <00:18:19.665>right

411
00:18:19.805 --> 00:18:20.845
<00:18:19.805>access <00:18:20.117>as <00:18:20.429>an <00:18:20.741>engineer.

412
00:18:20.905 --> 00:18:24.485
<00:18:20.905>You <00:18:21.060>can <00:18:21.216>even <00:18:21.371>click <00:18:21.527>around <00:18:21.682>the <00:18:21.838>AWS <00:18:21.993>console <00:18:22.149>for, <00:18:22.305>for,

413
00:18:24.705 --> 00:18:27.805
<00:18:24.705>you <00:18:24.845>know, <00:18:24.985>there's <00:18:25.125>a <00:18:25.264>number <00:18:25.405>of <00:18:25.544>resources <00:18:25.685>that <00:18:25.824>you <00:18:25.965>can <00:18:26.105>do

414
00:18:28.065 --> 00:18:30.005
<00:18:28.065>and <00:18:28.345>experiment <00:18:28.625>before <00:18:28.905>writing <00:18:29.185>the <00:18:29.465>call,

415
00:18:30.005 --> 00:18:32.125
<00:18:30.005>before <00:18:30.285>making <00:18:30.565>things <00:18:30.845>more, <00:18:31.125>uh, <00:18:31.405>complex.

416
00:18:32.265 --> 00:18:34.965
<00:18:32.265>And, <00:18:32.420>um, <00:18:32.576>you <00:18:32.731>know, <00:18:32.887>AWS <00:18:33.042>is <00:18:33.198>a <00:18:33.353>bit <00:18:33.509>of <00:18:33.665>a,

417
00:18:35.385 --> 00:18:37.485
<00:18:35.385>or <00:18:35.540>cloud <00:18:35.696>providers <00:18:35.851>is <00:18:36.007>a <00:18:36.162>bit <00:18:36.318>of <00:18:36.473>a <00:18:36.629>tricky <00:18:36.785>thing.

418
00:18:37.485 --> 00:18:38.845
<00:18:37.485>It's <00:18:37.620>like, <00:18:37.756>I'm <00:18:37.893>coming <00:18:38.029>to <00:18:38.165>you <00:18:38.301>and <00:18:38.437>telling, <00:18:38.573>give <00:18:38.709>you,

419
00:18:38.845 --> 00:18:41.685
<00:18:38.845>here's <00:18:38.985>my <00:18:39.125>credit <00:18:39.265>card <00:18:39.405>and, <00:18:39.545>uh, <00:18:39.685>let's <00:18:39.825>see <00:18:39.965>in <00:18:40.105>next <00:18:40.245>month

420
00:18:41.785 --> 00:18:42.805
<00:18:41.785>how <00:18:42.014>much <00:18:42.244>money <00:18:42.473>you <00:18:42.703>spend.

421
00:18:42.825 --> 00:18:43.965
<00:18:42.825>So <00:18:42.996>of <00:18:43.167>course, <00:18:43.338>this <00:18:43.509>is <00:18:43.680>a <00:18:43.851>problem.

422
00:18:44.025 --> 00:18:46.045
<00:18:44.025>We <00:18:44.225>have <00:18:44.425>a, <00:18:44.625>you <00:18:44.825>know, <00:18:45.025>a <00:18:45.225>regular <00:18:45.425>job

423
00:18:46.045 --> 00:18:48.725
<00:18:46.045>that <00:18:46.325>erases <00:18:46.605>the <00:18:46.885>erases <00:18:47.165>resources, <00:18:47.445>uh,

424
00:18:48.755 --> 00:18:50.765
<00:18:48.755>that <00:18:48.930>are <00:18:49.105>not <00:18:49.280>used <00:18:49.455>if <00:18:49.630>it's <00:18:49.805>not <00:18:49.980>tagged <00:18:50.155>correctly.

425
00:18:51.425 --> 00:18:54.565
<00:18:51.425>And <00:18:51.565>this <00:18:51.705>gives <00:18:51.845>the <00:18:51.985>engineers <00:18:52.125>a <00:18:52.264>way <00:18:52.405>to <00:18:52.544>also <00:18:52.685>experiment. <00:18:52.825>Yeah.

426
00:18:54.565 --> 00:18:56.005
<00:18:54.565>We <00:18:54.781>don't <00:18:54.997>block <00:18:55.213>them. <00:18:55.429>Uh, <00:18:55.645>you <00:18:55.861>cannot,

427
00:18:56.185 --> 00:18:57.565
<00:18:56.185>you <00:18:56.362>cannot <00:18:56.539>use <00:18:56.717>this, <00:18:56.894>you <00:18:57.072>cannot <00:18:57.249>do <00:18:57.427>this.

428
00:18:57.565 --> 00:18:59.885
<00:18:57.565>Even <00:18:57.720>if <00:18:57.876>they <00:18:58.031>want <00:18:58.187>a <00:18:58.342>crazy <00:18:58.498>technology <00:18:58.653>that <00:18:58.809>I <00:18:58.965>think

429
00:18:59.885 --> 00:19:01.685
<00:18:59.885>that <00:19:00.585>sometimes <00:19:01.285>Yeah.

430
00:19:01.685 --> 00:19:04.565
<00:19:01.685>Wouldn't <00:19:01.885>fit. <00:19:02.085>Yeah. <00:19:02.284>Now <00:19:02.485>suddenly, <00:19:02.685>maybe, <00:19:02.885>you <00:19:03.085>know,

431
00:19:04.565 --> 00:19:06.645
<00:19:04.565>in <00:19:04.765>our <00:19:04.965>case, <00:19:05.165>somebody <00:19:05.365>wanted <00:19:05.565>to <00:19:05.765>use <00:19:05.965>MongoDB,

432
00:19:06.645 --> 00:19:08.485
<00:19:06.645>and <00:19:06.800>I'm <00:19:06.956>like, <00:19:07.111>oh, <00:19:07.267>why <00:19:07.422>do <00:19:07.578>we <00:19:07.733>need <00:19:07.889>now <00:19:08.045>another

433
00:19:09.065 --> 00:19:10.085
<00:19:09.065>animal <00:19:09.371>in <00:19:09.677>the <00:19:09.983>zoo?

434
00:19:10.865 --> 00:19:13.205
<00:19:10.865>But, <00:19:11.065>uh, <00:19:11.265>yeah, <00:19:11.465>you <00:19:11.665>could, <00:19:11.865>they <00:19:12.065>can <00:19:12.265>experiment.

435
00:19:13.225 --> 00:19:16.525
<00:19:13.225>And <00:19:13.352>if <00:19:13.479>there's <00:19:13.606>a <00:19:13.734>proper <00:19:13.861>use <00:19:13.988>case, <00:19:14.115>we, <00:19:14.243>we, <00:19:14.370>we <00:19:14.497>got <00:19:14.625>it.

436
00:19:16.525 --> 00:19:17.525
<00:19:16.525>We <00:19:16.825>got <00:19:17.125>it <00:19:17.425>done.

437
00:19:18.805 --> 00:19:21.765
<00:19:18.805>I, <00:19:18.945>I <00:19:19.085>think <00:19:19.225>it's, <00:19:19.365>it's <00:19:19.505>a <00:19:19.645>lot <00:19:19.785>about <00:19:19.925>the <00:19:20.065>buy-in, <00:19:20.205>right?

438
00:19:21.905 --> 00:19:24.605
<00:19:21.905>You <00:19:22.060>need <00:19:22.216>to <00:19:22.371>have <00:19:22.527>the <00:19:22.682>buy-in <00:19:22.838>from <00:19:22.993>the <00:19:23.149>higher <00:19:23.305>management.

439
00:19:24.605 --> 00:19:28.165
<00:19:24.605>Because <00:19:24.805>if <00:19:25.005>they <00:19:25.205>don't <00:19:25.405>want <00:19:25.605>to <00:19:25.805>do <00:19:26.005>this,

440
00:19:28.565 --> 00:19:29.765
<00:19:28.565>I <00:19:28.781>don't <00:19:28.997>want <00:19:29.213>to <00:19:29.429>collect <00:19:29.645>transformation.

441
00:19:29.925 --> 00:19:32.255
<00:19:29.925>'cause <00:19:30.205>it's <00:19:30.485>such <00:19:30.764>a <00:19:31.044>jaded <00:19:31.325>subject.

442
00:19:32.915 --> 00:19:34.895
<00:19:32.915>But <00:19:33.055>if <00:19:33.195>they <00:19:33.335>don't <00:19:33.475>want <00:19:33.615>to <00:19:33.754>be <00:19:33.895>part <00:19:34.034>of <00:19:34.175>this, <00:19:34.315>you,

443
00:19:34.915 --> 00:19:35.935
<00:19:34.915>you <00:19:35.221>will <00:19:35.527>never <00:19:35.832>succeed.

444
00:19:36.035 --> 00:19:37.255
<00:19:36.035>So <00:19:36.309>that's <00:19:36.584>the <00:19:36.858>first <00:19:37.133>thing.

445
00:19:37.355 --> 00:19:40.575
<00:19:37.355>And <00:19:37.510>then <00:19:37.666>you <00:19:37.821>need <00:19:37.977>to <00:19:38.132>speak <00:19:38.288>to <00:19:38.443>these <00:19:38.599>people <00:19:38.755>again,

446
00:19:40.955 --> 00:19:43.015
<00:19:40.955>higher <00:19:41.304>management, <00:19:41.655>they're <00:19:42.004>more <00:19:42.355>businesslike.

447
00:19:43.475 --> 00:19:46.175
<00:19:43.475>So <00:19:43.649>they <00:19:43.824>need <00:19:44.000>to <00:19:44.175>understand <00:19:44.350>why <00:19:44.524>are <00:19:44.699>we <00:19:44.875>putting

448
00:19:46.275 --> 00:19:48.735
<00:19:46.275>so <00:19:46.625>much <00:19:46.975>effort <00:19:47.325>into <00:19:47.675>buzzwords

449
00:19:48.805 --> 00:19:50.695
<00:19:48.805>that <00:19:49.005>we <00:19:49.205>don't <00:19:49.405>want <00:19:49.605>to <00:19:49.805>know <00:19:50.005>about <00:19:50.205>maybe?

450
00:19:51.515 --> 00:19:53.815
<00:19:51.515>And <00:19:51.670>you <00:19:51.826>need <00:19:51.981>to <00:19:52.137>speak <00:19:52.292>to <00:19:52.448>them <00:19:52.603>in <00:19:52.759>their <00:19:52.915>language

451
00:19:54.515 --> 00:19:55.615
<00:19:54.515>and <00:19:54.845>get <00:19:55.175>the <00:19:55.505>buy-in.

452
00:19:56.235 --> 00:19:58.695
<00:19:56.235>That's <00:19:56.409>one <00:19:56.584>of <00:19:56.760>the <00:19:56.935>magics <00:19:57.110>of <00:19:57.284>being <00:19:57.459>of <00:19:57.635>consultant.

453
00:19:59.115 --> 00:20:00.935
<00:19:59.115>At <00:19:59.270>the <00:19:59.426>end <00:19:59.581>of <00:19:59.737>the <00:19:59.892>day, <00:20:00.048>you <00:20:00.203>need <00:20:00.359>to <00:20:00.515>talk

454
00:20:00.935 --> 00:20:02.215
<00:20:00.935>to <00:20:01.127>the <00:20:01.319>people <00:20:01.511>who <00:20:01.703>pay <00:20:01.895>the <00:20:02.087>bill.

455
00:20:02.395 --> 00:20:04.815
<00:20:02.395>And <00:20:02.675>they <00:20:02.955>normally, <00:20:03.235>not <00:20:03.514>necessarily <00:20:03.795>technical.

456
00:20:05.715 --> 00:20:09.175
<00:20:05.715>And <00:20:05.842>the <00:20:05.969>other <00:20:06.096>part <00:20:06.224>is <00:20:06.351>then <00:20:06.478>when <00:20:06.605>you <00:20:06.733>have <00:20:06.860>the <00:20:06.987>buy-in <00:20:07.115>from

457
00:20:09.265 --> 00:20:12.495
<00:20:09.265>management, <00:20:09.498>then <00:20:09.731>you <00:20:09.965>can <00:20:10.198>start <00:20:10.431>by <00:20:10.665>doing

458
00:20:13.265 --> 00:20:15.655
<00:20:13.265>small <00:20:13.615>initiatives <00:20:13.965>and <00:20:14.315>experiments <00:20:14.665>again

459
00:20:15.795 --> 00:20:20.135
<00:20:15.795>and <00:20:15.995>again, <00:20:16.195>igniting <00:20:16.395>people <00:20:16.595>that <00:20:16.795>suddenly <00:20:16.995>you <00:20:17.195>see.

460
00:20:20.135 --> 00:20:22.775
<00:20:20.135>Because <00:20:20.275>if <00:20:20.415>you <00:20:20.555>start <00:20:20.695>talking <00:20:20.835>to <00:20:20.975>the <00:20:21.115>people, <00:20:21.254>you <00:20:21.395>will <00:20:21.535>see

461
00:20:22.775 --> 00:20:24.215
<00:20:22.775>who <00:20:22.991>is <00:20:23.207>interested <00:20:23.423>and <00:20:23.639>who <00:20:23.855>is <00:20:24.071>not.

462
00:20:24.755 --> 00:20:26.335
<00:20:24.755>And <00:20:24.988>the <00:20:25.221>people <00:20:25.455>that <00:20:25.688>are <00:20:25.921>not <00:20:26.155>interested,

463
00:20:27.845 --> 00:20:29.815
<00:20:27.845>they <00:20:28.020>won't <00:20:28.195>be <00:20:28.370>interested, <00:20:28.545>at <00:20:28.720>least <00:20:28.895>at <00:20:29.070>the <00:20:29.245>beginning.

464
00:20:29.925 --> 00:20:31.215
<00:20:29.925>Yeah, <00:20:30.157>they <00:20:30.389>will <00:20:30.621>join <00:20:30.853>the <00:20:31.086>curve.

465
00:20:31.715 --> 00:20:33.175
<00:20:31.715>But <00:20:31.902>then <00:20:32.090>you <00:20:32.278>have <00:20:32.465>somebody <00:20:32.653>who <00:20:32.841>says, <00:20:33.029>like,

466
00:20:33.255 --> 00:20:34.935
<00:20:33.255>I <00:20:33.605>was <00:20:33.955>always <00:20:34.305>into <00:20:34.655>observability.

467
00:20:36.045 --> 00:20:40.455
<00:20:36.045>Okay, <00:20:36.200>what <00:20:36.356>can <00:20:36.511>we <00:20:36.667>do <00:20:36.822>together? <00:20:36.978>Uh, <00:20:37.133>I <00:20:37.289>don't <00:20:37.445>know.

468
00:20:40.455 --> 00:20:43.055
<00:20:40.455>We <00:20:40.610>are <00:20:40.766>using <00:20:40.921>Datadog. <00:20:41.077>Let's <00:20:41.232>see, <00:20:41.388>let's <00:20:41.543>work <00:20:41.699>on <00:20:41.855>it.

469
00:20:43.065 --> 00:20:44.455
<00:20:43.065>Maybe <00:20:43.315>you <00:20:43.565>can <00:20:43.815>do <00:20:44.065>a <00:20:44.316>dashboard.

470
00:20:45.315 --> 00:20:49.205
<00:20:45.315>So, <00:20:45.455>and, <00:20:45.595>and <00:20:45.735>again, <00:20:45.875>it's <00:20:46.015>humans, <00:20:46.155>you <00:20:46.295>know, <00:20:46.435>it's, <00:20:46.575>it's, <00:20:46.715>it's,

471
00:20:49.315 --> 00:20:53.485
<00:20:49.315>it's <00:20:49.455>how <00:20:49.595>to <00:20:49.735>make <00:20:49.875>humans <00:20:50.015>feel <00:20:50.155>comfortable <00:20:50.295>about <00:20:50.435>what <00:20:50.575>they <00:20:50.715>do.

472
00:20:53.485 --> 00:20:56.365
<00:20:53.485>And, <00:20:53.592>and <00:20:53.700>at <00:20:53.808>the <00:20:53.915>end <00:20:54.023>of <00:20:54.131>the <00:20:54.238>day, <00:20:54.346>this <00:20:54.454>is <00:20:54.561>what <00:20:54.669>I <00:20:54.777>learned <00:20:54.885>from,

473
00:20:56.905 --> 00:20:59.325
<00:20:56.905>um, <00:20:57.105>when <00:20:57.305>I <00:20:57.504>worked <00:20:57.705>for <00:20:57.905>a <00:20:58.105>Finnish <00:20:58.305>company.

474
00:20:59.735 --> 00:21:01.885
<00:20:59.735>Happy <00:20:59.935>co <00:21:00.135>happy <00:21:00.334>employees <00:21:00.534>are <00:21:00.735>the <00:21:00.935>best <00:21:01.135>employees.

475
00:21:03.065 --> 00:21:05.525
<00:21:03.065>So <00:21:03.765>they, <00:21:04.465>yeah,

476
00:21:06.125 --> 00:21:07.685
<00:21:06.125>I, <00:21:06.325>I <00:21:06.525>mean, <00:21:06.725>I <00:21:06.925>can <00:21:07.125>resonate <00:21:07.325>with <00:21:07.525>that.

477
00:21:07.745 --> 00:21:09.285
<00:21:07.745>And <00:21:08.206>it's, <00:21:08.669>it's <00:21:09.131>interesting

478
00:21:09.285 --> 00:21:13.445
<00:21:09.285>because, <00:21:09.412>uh, <00:21:09.539>one <00:21:09.666>of <00:21:09.794>the <00:21:09.921>very <00:21:10.048>large <00:21:10.175>banks <00:21:10.303>in <00:21:10.430>the <00:21:10.557>us, <00:21:10.685>uh,

479
00:21:13.595 --> 00:21:15.765
<00:21:13.595>they <00:21:13.875>were <00:21:14.155>talking <00:21:14.435>about <00:21:14.715>their, <00:21:14.995>uh,

480
00:21:15.795 --> 00:21:17.525
<00:21:15.795>developer <00:21:16.495>experience <00:21:17.195>program

481
00:21:17.865 --> 00:21:21.125
<00:21:17.865>and <00:21:18.065>their <00:21:18.265>ultimate <00:21:18.465>metric <00:21:18.665>for <00:21:18.865>developer <00:21:19.065>experience <00:21:19.265>and,

482
00:21:21.265 --> 00:21:23.365
<00:21:21.265>and <00:21:21.545>whether <00:21:21.825>their <00:21:22.105>developers <00:21:22.385>were <00:21:22.665>happy,

483
00:21:23.785 --> 00:21:26.405
<00:21:23.785>was <00:21:23.960>whether <00:21:24.135>their <00:21:24.310>customers, <00:21:24.485>their <00:21:24.660>end <00:21:24.835>users <00:21:25.010>were <00:21:25.185>happy

484
00:21:26.635 --> 00:21:28.845
<00:21:26.635>because <00:21:26.915>their <00:21:27.195>view <00:21:27.475>was <00:21:27.754>that, <00:21:28.035>uh,

485
00:21:28.975 --> 00:21:30.925
<00:21:28.975>happy <00:21:29.324>engineers <00:21:29.675>make <00:21:30.024>better <00:21:30.375>software

486
00:21:31.305 --> 00:21:33.565
<00:21:31.305>and <00:21:31.585>better <00:21:31.865>software <00:21:32.145>means <00:21:32.425>happier <00:21:32.705>customers.

487
00:21:33.585 --> 00:21:36.605
<00:21:33.585>So <00:21:33.740>they <00:21:33.896>were <00:21:34.051>actually <00:21:34.207>tracking <00:21:34.362>those <00:21:34.518>as <00:21:34.673>an <00:21:34.829>alignment <00:21:34.985>piece,

488
00:21:36.895 --> 00:21:38.285
<00:21:36.895>which <00:21:37.312>I <00:21:37.729>genuinely <00:21:38.146>loved.

489
00:21:38.475 --> 00:21:41.485
<00:21:38.475>When <00:21:38.615>I <00:21:38.754>heard <00:21:38.895>that, <00:21:39.034>I <00:21:39.175>was <00:21:39.314>like, <00:21:39.455>okay, <00:21:39.594>I <00:21:39.735>like <00:21:39.875>you.

490
00:21:41.625 --> 00:21:43.685
<00:21:41.625>That's, <00:21:41.975>that's <00:21:42.325>super <00:21:42.675>cool, <00:21:43.025>right?

491
00:21:44.315 --> 00:21:46.005
<00:21:44.315>It's <00:21:44.515>a, <00:21:44.715>you <00:21:44.915>know, <00:21:45.115>it's <00:21:45.315>a <00:21:45.515>different <00:21:45.715>way,

492
00:21:46.065 --> 00:21:48.205
<00:21:46.065>but <00:21:46.345>they <00:21:46.625>do, <00:21:46.905>they <00:21:47.185>do <00:21:47.465>align.

493
00:21:48.685 --> 00:21:50.045
<00:21:48.685>I <00:21:48.859>did <00:21:49.034>also <00:21:49.209>like <00:21:49.384>what <00:21:49.559>you <00:21:49.734>were <00:21:49.909>saying,

494
00:21:50.045 --> 00:21:52.565
<00:21:50.045>there <00:21:50.220>is <00:21:50.395>a <00:21:50.570>translation <00:21:50.745>exercise <00:21:50.920>that <00:21:51.095>needs <00:21:51.270>to <00:21:51.445>happen

495
00:21:52.565 --> 00:21:55.845
<00:21:52.565>between <00:21:52.720>metrics <00:21:52.876>that <00:21:53.031>make <00:21:53.187>sense <00:21:53.342>to <00:21:53.498>us <00:21:53.653>as <00:21:53.809>technical <00:21:53.965>people

496
00:21:56.185 --> 00:21:59.085
<00:21:56.185>and <00:21:56.360>metrics <00:21:56.534>that <00:21:56.710>make <00:21:56.885>sense <00:21:57.060>to, <00:21:57.235>uh, <00:21:57.409>you <00:21:57.585>know,

497
00:21:59.485 --> 00:22:00.525
<00:21:59.485>business <00:21:59.797>leaders, <00:22:00.109>the <00:22:00.421>board,

498
00:22:00.635 --> 00:22:04.125
<00:22:00.635>because <00:22:00.810>you <00:22:00.985>have <00:22:01.160>to <00:22:01.335>convert <00:22:01.510>those <00:22:01.685>metrics <00:22:01.860>into <00:22:02.035>outcomes

499
00:22:04.125 --> 00:22:06.885
<00:22:04.125>that <00:22:04.300>they <00:22:04.475>understand <00:22:04.650>and <00:22:04.825>they <00:22:05.000>want <00:22:05.175>to <00:22:05.350>invest <00:22:05.525>in

500
00:22:06.885 --> 00:22:09.205
<00:22:06.885>because <00:22:07.060>they <00:22:07.235>know <00:22:07.410>it's <00:22:07.585>gonna <00:22:07.760>drive <00:22:07.935>the <00:22:08.110>right <00:22:08.285>activities.

501
00:22:09.905 --> 00:22:11.525
<00:22:09.905>So <00:22:10.185>I'm <00:22:10.465>looking <00:22:10.745>at <00:22:11.024>our <00:22:11.305>time.

502
00:22:11.775 --> 00:22:13.845
<00:22:11.775>We've <00:22:12.055>got <00:22:12.335>about <00:22:12.615>six <00:22:12.895>minutes <00:22:13.175>left.

503
00:22:14.585 --> 00:22:17.325
<00:22:14.585>So <00:22:14.712>I <00:22:14.839>did <00:22:14.966>want <00:22:15.094>to <00:22:15.221>kind <00:22:15.348>of <00:22:15.475>look <00:22:15.603>about, <00:22:15.730>uh, <00:22:15.857>you <00:22:15.985>know,

504
00:22:17.325 --> 00:22:20.885
<00:22:17.325>going <00:22:17.480>forwards <00:22:17.636>and, <00:22:17.791>uh, <00:22:17.947>you <00:22:18.102>know, <00:22:18.258>one <00:22:18.413>of <00:22:18.569>the <00:22:18.725>things

505
00:22:20.885 --> 00:22:22.845
<00:22:20.885>that <00:22:21.165>we've <00:22:21.445>barely <00:22:21.725>touched <00:22:22.004>on <00:22:22.285>it,

506
00:22:22.845 --> 00:22:25.285
<00:22:22.845>and <00:22:23.000>I <00:22:23.156>feel <00:22:23.311>like <00:22:23.467>everything <00:22:23.622>at <00:22:23.778>this <00:22:23.933>conference <00:22:24.089>has <00:22:24.245>been,

507
00:22:25.665 --> 00:22:27.125
<00:22:25.665>uh, <00:22:25.993>had <00:22:26.322>AI <00:22:26.650>in <00:22:26.979>it.

508
00:22:27.225 --> 00:22:29.965
<00:22:27.225>But, <00:22:27.380>you <00:22:27.536>know, <00:22:27.691>if <00:22:27.847>we're <00:22:28.002>looking <00:22:28.158>at <00:22:28.313>going <00:22:28.469>forwards, <00:22:28.625>like

509
00:22:29.965 --> 00:22:33.285
<00:22:29.965>what <00:22:30.105>is <00:22:30.245>the <00:22:30.385>impact <00:22:30.524>of <00:22:30.665>AI <00:22:30.804>on <00:22:30.945>these <00:22:31.084>kind <00:22:31.225>of <00:22:31.365>processes,

510
00:22:33.285 --> 00:22:35.085
<00:22:33.285>what's <00:22:33.565>the <00:22:33.845>impact <00:22:34.125>on <00:22:34.405>developer <00:22:34.685>experience?

511
00:22:35.425 --> 00:22:37.325
<00:22:35.425>What's <00:22:35.658>the <00:22:35.891>impact <00:22:36.125>on <00:22:36.358>what <00:22:36.591>we <00:22:36.825>measure

512
00:22:37.905 --> 00:22:41.325
<00:22:37.905>and <00:22:38.032>what's <00:22:38.159>the <00:22:38.286>impact <00:22:38.414>on <00:22:38.541>that <00:22:38.668>kind <00:22:38.795>of <00:22:38.923>culture, <00:22:39.050>uh, <00:22:39.177>you <00:22:39.305>know,

513
00:22:41.915 --> 00:22:43.885
<00:22:41.915>that <00:22:42.195>we <00:22:42.475>have <00:22:42.754>inside <00:22:43.034>our <00:22:43.315>organizations?

514
00:22:45.615 --> 00:22:49.785
<00:22:45.615>Yeah. <00:22:45.755>So <00:22:45.895>I <00:22:46.035>mean, <00:22:46.175>I'm, <00:22:46.315>I'm, <00:22:46.455>I <00:22:46.595>really <00:22:46.735>believe <00:22:46.875>that <00:22:47.015>ai,

515
00:22:50.685 --> 00:22:53.785
<00:22:50.685>um, <00:22:50.965>provide <00:22:51.245>some <00:22:51.524>productivity <00:22:51.804>for <00:22:52.085>engineers.

516
00:22:54.005 --> 00:22:56.745
<00:22:54.005>Um, <00:22:54.238>I <00:22:54.471>do <00:22:54.705>not <00:22:54.938>know <00:22:55.171>how <00:22:55.405>much,

517
00:22:57.085 --> 00:22:58.705
<00:22:57.085>and <00:22:57.260>this <00:22:57.435>is <00:22:57.610>something <00:22:57.785>that <00:22:57.960>of <00:22:58.135>course, <00:22:58.310>I <00:22:58.485>mean,

518
00:22:58.745 --> 00:23:00.505
<00:22:58.745>I <00:22:58.945>guess <00:22:59.145>the <00:22:59.344>holy <00:22:59.544>grail <00:22:59.745>is <00:22:59.945>to <00:23:00.145>understand

519
00:23:00.505 --> 00:23:03.825
<00:23:00.505>how <00:23:00.645>much <00:23:00.785>are <00:23:00.925>people <00:23:01.065>more <00:23:01.205>productive <00:23:01.345>and <00:23:01.485>can <00:23:01.625>we <00:23:01.765>do <00:23:01.905>more

520
00:23:03.845 --> 00:23:05.665
<00:23:03.845>or <00:23:04.078>can <00:23:04.311>we <00:23:04.545>maybe <00:23:04.778>do <00:23:05.011>some <00:23:05.245>savings?

521
00:23:05.735 --> 00:23:07.225
<00:23:05.735>Yeah. <00:23:06.003>Or <00:23:06.271>could <00:23:06.539>go <00:23:06.807>both <00:23:07.076>ways.

522
00:23:08.085 --> 00:23:09.825
<00:23:08.085>And <00:23:08.285>the <00:23:08.485>question <00:23:08.685>is <00:23:08.885>how <00:23:09.085>you <00:23:09.285>measure <00:23:09.485>it.

523
00:23:10.405 --> 00:23:11.945
<00:23:10.405>Um, <00:23:10.682>so <00:23:10.959>you <00:23:11.236>constantly, <00:23:11.513>of <00:23:11.791>course,

524
00:23:12.055 --> 00:23:13.625
<00:23:12.055>also <00:23:12.288>maybe <00:23:12.521>connects <00:23:12.755>a <00:23:12.988>bit <00:23:13.221>to <00:23:13.455>innovation.

525
00:23:13.685 --> 00:23:16.305
<00:23:13.685>You <00:23:13.825>know, <00:23:13.965>first <00:23:14.105>of <00:23:14.245>all, <00:23:14.385>the, <00:23:14.524>the <00:23:14.665>first, <00:23:14.804>the <00:23:14.945>first <00:23:15.085>step

526
00:23:16.305 --> 00:23:19.665
<00:23:16.305>for <00:23:16.480>us <00:23:16.655>was <00:23:16.830>let's <00:23:17.005>get <00:23:17.180>the <00:23:17.355>people <00:23:17.530>using <00:23:17.705>ai.

527
00:23:20.085 --> 00:23:21.385
<00:23:20.085>And <00:23:20.475>surprisingly <00:23:20.865>for <00:23:21.255>me,

528
00:23:21.965 --> 00:23:24.345
<00:23:21.965>it <00:23:22.165>wasn't <00:23:22.365>immediately <00:23:22.564>adopted <00:23:22.764>by <00:23:22.965>all <00:23:23.165>the <00:23:23.365>developers.

529
00:23:24.445 --> 00:23:27.185
<00:23:24.445>All <00:23:24.600>the <00:23:24.756>engineers, <00:23:24.911>yeah. <00:23:25.067>They, <00:23:25.222>they <00:23:25.378>were <00:23:25.533>a <00:23:25.689>bit <00:23:25.845>skeptical.

530
00:23:27.295 --> 00:23:30.785
<00:23:27.295>Some <00:23:27.422>were <00:23:27.549>not <00:23:27.676>interested, <00:23:27.804>uh, <00:23:27.931>kind <00:23:28.058>of <00:23:28.185>had <00:23:28.313>to <00:23:28.440>really <00:23:28.567>push <00:23:28.695>it

531
00:23:30.785 --> 00:23:33.025
<00:23:30.785>through, <00:23:30.925>offer <00:23:31.065>it <00:23:31.205>to <00:23:31.345>people, <00:23:31.485>ask <00:23:31.625>them, <00:23:31.765>talk <00:23:31.905>to <00:23:32.045>the <00:23:32.185>people

532
00:23:33.685 --> 00:23:35.705
<00:23:33.685>as <00:23:33.885>you <00:23:34.085>said, <00:23:34.284>why <00:23:34.485>aren't <00:23:34.685>you <00:23:34.885>using <00:23:35.085>it?

533
00:23:36.325 --> 00:23:38.145
<00:23:36.325>Um, <00:23:36.675>and <00:23:37.025>then, <00:23:37.375>and <00:23:37.725>then

534
00:23:38.235 --> 00:23:39.825
<00:23:38.235>after <00:23:38.468>people <00:23:38.701>use <00:23:38.935>it, <00:23:39.168>the <00:23:39.401>question <00:23:39.635>is

535
00:23:39.845 --> 00:23:41.345
<00:23:39.845>how <00:23:40.182>really <00:23:40.520>productive <00:23:40.857>are <00:23:41.195>we,

536
00:23:41.525 --> 00:23:43.305
<00:23:41.525>are <00:23:41.700>we <00:23:41.875>now <00:23:42.050>better <00:23:42.225>than <00:23:42.400>what <00:23:42.575>we <00:23:42.750>did <00:23:42.925>before?

537
00:23:43.375 --> 00:23:46.365
<00:23:43.375>What <00:23:43.530>is <00:23:43.686>uh, <00:23:43.841>what <00:23:43.997>is <00:23:44.152>going <00:23:44.308>well, <00:23:44.463>what <00:23:44.619>is <00:23:44.775>not?

538
00:23:47.265 --> 00:23:48.285
<00:23:47.265>And <00:23:47.494>we <00:23:47.724>are <00:23:47.953>still <00:23:48.183>measuring.

539
00:23:48.285 --> 00:23:49.565
<00:23:48.285>So <00:23:48.477>I <00:23:48.669>don't <00:23:48.861>have <00:23:49.053>a <00:23:49.245>definite <00:23:49.437>answer,

540
00:23:49.585 --> 00:23:51.205
<00:23:49.585>but <00:23:49.785>what <00:23:49.985>I <00:23:50.185>could <00:23:50.385>definitely <00:23:50.585>say <00:23:50.785>is <00:23:50.985>that

541
00:23:51.315 --> 00:23:52.365
<00:23:51.315>what <00:23:51.630>I've <00:23:51.945>noticed <00:23:52.260>yeah.

542
00:23:52.385 --> 00:23:55.165
<00:23:52.385>Is <00:23:52.560>that <00:23:52.735>people <00:23:52.910>are <00:23:53.085>more <00:23:53.260>proficient <00:23:53.435>in <00:23:53.610>suddenly <00:23:53.785>Yeah.

543
00:23:55.165 --> 00:23:57.485
<00:23:55.165>In <00:23:55.340>their <00:23:55.514>commits. <00:23:55.690>Yeah. <00:23:55.865>In <00:23:56.040>more <00:23:56.215>than <00:23:56.389>one <00:23:56.565>language.

544
00:23:57.625 --> 00:24:00.645
<00:23:57.625>So <00:23:57.825>suddenly <00:23:58.025>people <00:23:58.225>that <00:23:58.425>were <00:23:58.625>supposedly <00:23:58.825>only <00:23:59.025>backend,

545
00:24:00.645 --> 00:24:02.365
<00:24:00.645>they <00:24:00.878>also <00:24:01.111>do <00:24:01.345>JavaScript <00:24:01.578>in <00:24:01.811>front <00:24:02.045>end,

546
00:24:02.365 --> 00:24:04.725
<00:24:02.365>and <00:24:02.472>they <00:24:02.580>are <00:24:02.688>a <00:24:02.795>bit, <00:24:02.903>they <00:24:03.011>can <00:24:03.118>do <00:24:03.226>a <00:24:03.334>lot <00:24:03.441>of <00:24:03.549>stuff <00:24:03.657>that <00:24:03.765>would

547
00:24:04.755 --> 00:24:06.965
<00:24:04.755>otherwise <00:24:04.988>would <00:24:05.221>be <00:24:05.455>let's <00:24:05.688>create <00:24:05.921>a <00:24:06.155>ticket

548
00:24:07.145 --> 00:24:08.565
<00:24:07.145>and <00:24:07.327>then <00:24:07.510>somebody <00:24:07.692>needs <00:24:07.875>to <00:24:08.057>pick <00:24:08.240>it <00:24:08.423>up

549
00:24:08.565 --> 00:24:10.805
<00:24:08.565>and <00:24:08.705>he's <00:24:08.845>doing <00:24:08.985>the, <00:24:09.125>the, <00:24:09.265>the <00:24:09.405>some <00:24:09.545>part <00:24:09.685>of <00:24:09.825>the <00:24:09.965>system.

550
00:24:10.825 --> 00:24:13.285
<00:24:10.825>But <00:24:10.965>I <00:24:11.105>don't <00:24:11.245>know. <00:24:11.385>And <00:24:11.525>actually <00:24:11.665>this, <00:24:11.805>so <00:24:11.945>this <00:24:12.085>gives <00:24:12.225>you

551
00:24:14.075 --> 00:24:15.805
<00:24:14.075>already <00:24:14.541>a <00:24:15.008>certain <00:24:15.475>benefit.

552
00:24:16.235 --> 00:24:17.645
<00:24:16.235>It's <00:24:16.488>very <00:24:16.742>hard <00:24:16.996>to <00:24:17.250>quantify <00:24:17.504>it.

553
00:24:18.245 --> 00:24:21.245
<00:24:18.245>I <00:24:18.361>think <00:24:18.478>we <00:24:18.594>need <00:24:18.711>to, <00:24:18.828>um, <00:24:18.945>do <00:24:19.061>a <00:24:19.178>bit <00:24:19.294>of <00:24:19.411>a, <00:24:19.528>a <00:24:19.645>pulse

554
00:24:21.245 --> 00:24:23.565
<00:24:21.245>with <00:24:21.478>the <00:24:21.711>developers <00:24:21.945>understanding <00:24:22.178>also <00:24:22.411>the <00:24:22.645>Yeah,

555
00:24:23.705 --> 00:24:24.885
<00:24:23.705>the, <00:24:24.235>the <00:24:24.767>qua.

556
00:24:24.915 --> 00:24:27.125
<00:24:24.915>What <00:24:25.070>is <00:24:25.226>the <00:24:25.381>quality? <00:24:25.537>How <00:24:25.692>do <00:24:25.848>they <00:24:26.003>feel <00:24:26.159>about <00:24:26.315>it?

557
00:24:27.265 --> 00:24:28.645
<00:24:27.265>Uh, <00:24:27.513>we're <00:24:27.761>we're <00:24:28.010>still <00:24:28.258>getting <00:24:28.507>there.

558
00:24:28.645 --> 00:24:29.885
<00:24:28.645>Yeah. <00:24:28.924>So <00:24:29.203>it's <00:24:29.482>a <00:24:29.761>process.

559
00:24:30.355 --> 00:24:32.165
<00:24:30.355>It's <00:24:30.821>a <00:24:31.288>process. <00:24:31.755>Yeah.

560
00:24:32.685 --> 00:24:36.565
<00:24:32.685>I <00:24:32.812>can <00:24:32.939>talk <00:24:33.066>about <00:24:33.194>a <00:24:33.321>little <00:24:33.448>bit <00:24:33.575>about <00:24:33.703>the <00:24:33.830>Dora <00:24:33.957>AI <00:24:34.085>report

561
00:24:37.305 --> 00:24:41.005
<00:24:37.305>and <00:24:37.538>it <00:24:37.771>showed <00:24:38.005>some <00:24:38.238>really <00:24:38.471>interesting <00:24:38.705>patterns.

562
00:24:41.185 --> 00:24:45.845
<00:24:41.185>For <00:24:41.385>example, <00:24:41.585>uh, <00:24:41.784>people <00:24:41.985>started <00:24:42.185>releasing <00:24:42.385>big <00:24:42.585>chunks

563
00:24:45.845 --> 00:24:47.485
<00:24:45.845>of <00:24:46.125>code <00:24:46.405>instead <00:24:46.685>of <00:24:46.965>small <00:24:47.245>batches.

564
00:24:47.745 --> 00:24:50.245
<00:24:47.745>Uh, <00:24:48.094>people <00:24:48.445>were <00:24:48.794>more <00:24:49.145>productive,

565
00:24:50.345 --> 00:24:53.325
<00:24:50.345>but <00:24:50.520>actually <00:24:50.695>the <00:24:50.870>business <00:24:51.045>outcome <00:24:51.220>was <00:24:51.395>not <00:24:51.570>more <00:24:51.745>productive.

566
00:24:54.345 --> 00:24:57.965
<00:24:54.345>Um, <00:24:54.500>I've <00:24:54.656>been <00:24:54.811>toying <00:24:54.967>with <00:24:55.122>AI <00:24:55.278>in <00:24:55.433>the <00:24:55.589>last <00:24:55.745>month.

567
00:24:59.375 --> 00:25:03.885
<00:24:59.375>Definitely. <00:24:59.575>Um, <00:24:59.775>it <00:24:59.975>makes <00:25:00.175>you <00:25:00.375>write <00:25:00.575>bigger <00:25:00.775>chunks

568
00:25:03.885 --> 00:25:07.085
<00:25:03.885>of <00:25:04.165>code <00:25:04.445>because <00:25:04.725>it's <00:25:05.004>somehow <00:25:05.285>demanded.

569
00:25:07.325 --> 00:25:09.005
<00:25:07.325>'cause <00:25:07.558>it <00:25:07.791>works <00:25:08.025>in <00:25:08.258>a <00:25:08.491>way <00:25:08.725>fast.

570
00:25:09.705 --> 00:25:11.765
<00:25:09.705>But <00:25:09.938>like <00:25:10.171>I <00:25:10.405>said, <00:25:10.638>it's <00:25:10.871>missing <00:25:11.105>context.

571
00:25:12.225 --> 00:25:15.965
<00:25:12.225>So <00:25:12.365>I <00:25:12.504>would <00:25:12.645>not <00:25:12.784>use <00:25:12.925>it <00:25:13.064>in <00:25:13.205>a <00:25:13.344>highly <00:25:13.485>regulated <00:25:13.625>environment

572
00:25:16.165 --> 00:25:18.165
<00:25:16.165>'cause <00:25:16.445>we <00:25:16.725>don't <00:25:17.004>trust <00:25:17.284>it <00:25:17.565>completely.

573
00:25:19.225 --> 00:25:22.045
<00:25:19.225>And <00:25:19.458>it's, <00:25:19.691>it's <00:25:19.925>good <00:25:20.158>for <00:25:20.391>tooling <00:25:20.625>maybe,

574
00:25:22.145 --> 00:25:25.245
<00:25:22.145>but <00:25:22.425>it's <00:25:22.705>really <00:25:22.985>hard <00:25:23.264>to <00:25:23.545>integration.

575
00:25:25.505 --> 00:25:29.565
<00:25:25.505>So <00:25:25.632>integration <00:25:25.759>is <00:25:25.886>really <00:25:26.014>hard <00:25:26.141>for <00:25:26.268>the <00:25:26.395>AI <00:25:26.523>that <00:25:26.650>we <00:25:26.777>have <00:25:26.905>now.

576
00:25:29.625 --> 00:25:32.525
<00:25:29.625>All <00:25:29.825>these <00:25:30.025>LLM <00:25:30.225>models, <00:25:30.425>I, <00:25:30.625>I <00:25:30.825>was <00:25:31.025>not

577
00:25:32.525 --> 00:25:34.165
<00:25:32.525>so <00:25:32.805>impressed <00:25:33.085>from <00:25:33.365>what <00:25:33.645>I've <00:25:33.925>seen.

578
00:25:34.265 --> 00:25:37.685
<00:25:34.265>But <00:25:34.381>on <00:25:34.498>the <00:25:34.615>other <00:25:34.731>hand, <00:25:34.848>I <00:25:34.965>could <00:25:35.081>create <00:25:35.198>a <00:25:35.315>CLI <00:25:35.431>in <00:25:35.548>three <00:25:35.665>days,

579
00:25:38.805 --> 00:25:40.645
<00:25:38.805>a <00:25:39.271>quite <00:25:39.738>crazy <00:25:40.205>CLI.

580
00:25:40.865 --> 00:25:42.365
<00:25:40.865>So <00:25:41.202>I, <00:25:41.540>I <00:25:41.877>don't <00:25:42.215>know.

581
00:25:42.775 --> 00:25:44.325
<00:25:42.775>Sorry. <00:25:44.170>Sorry.

582
00:25:44.565 --> 00:25:47.765
<00:25:44.565>I, <00:25:44.798>it <00:25:45.031>just <00:25:45.265>reminded <00:25:45.498>me, <00:25:45.731>you <00:25:45.965>know,

583
00:25:48.105 --> 00:25:49.925
<00:25:48.105>and <00:25:48.338>I <00:25:48.571>think, <00:25:48.805>uh, <00:25:49.038>you <00:25:49.271>know, <00:25:49.505>we,

584
00:25:50.075 --> 00:25:51.965
<00:25:50.075>when <00:25:50.308>you <00:25:50.541>talk <00:25:50.775>about <00:25:51.008>coding <00:25:51.241>assistance <00:25:51.475>and,

585
00:25:51.985 --> 00:25:54.485
<00:25:51.985>and <00:25:52.159>you <00:25:52.334>know, <00:25:52.510>the <00:25:52.685>generating <00:25:52.860>the <00:25:53.034>code, <00:25:53.209>I <00:25:53.385>think

586
00:25:55.105 --> 00:25:58.285
<00:25:55.105>all <00:25:55.245>the <00:25:55.385>things <00:25:55.525>that <00:25:55.665>applied <00:25:55.805>for <00:25:55.945>a <00:25:56.085>person, <00:25:56.225>uh, <00:25:56.365>you <00:25:56.505>know,

587
00:25:58.345 --> 00:25:59.405
<00:25:58.345>all <00:25:58.535>the <00:25:58.726>checks <00:25:58.917>that <00:25:59.108>you <00:25:59.299>do

588
00:25:59.405 --> 00:26:03.565
<00:25:59.405>after <00:25:59.532>the <00:25:59.659>code <00:25:59.786>is <00:25:59.914>written, <00:26:00.041>they <00:26:00.168>apply <00:26:00.295>just <00:26:00.423>as <00:26:00.550>much <00:26:00.677>for <00:26:00.805>AI

589
00:26:04.155 --> 00:26:05.925
<00:26:04.155>code, <00:26:04.435>you <00:26:04.715>know, <00:26:04.995>that <00:26:05.274>is <00:26:05.555>generated.

590
00:26:06.425 --> 00:26:08.525
<00:26:06.425>And <00:26:06.580>I <00:26:06.736>think <00:26:06.891>part <00:26:07.047>of <00:26:07.202>the <00:26:07.358>challenge <00:26:07.513>has <00:26:07.669>always <00:26:07.825>been

591
00:26:08.525 --> 00:26:09.845
<00:26:08.525>that <00:26:08.822>you're <00:26:09.119>generating <00:26:09.416>more <00:26:09.713>code,

592
00:26:10.345 --> 00:26:12.725
<00:26:10.345>but <00:26:10.545>you <00:26:10.745>don't <00:26:10.945>necessarily <00:26:11.145>have <00:26:11.345>all <00:26:11.545>the <00:26:11.745>bandwidth

593
00:26:12.745 --> 00:26:14.245
<00:26:12.745>to <00:26:12.937>the <00:26:13.130>right <00:26:13.323>of <00:26:13.516>that <00:26:13.709>to <00:26:13.902>make <00:26:14.094>sure

594
00:26:14.245 --> 00:26:15.405
<00:26:14.245>that <00:26:14.418>all <00:26:14.592>the <00:26:14.766>right <00:26:14.941>things <00:26:15.115>are <00:26:15.289>happening.

595
00:26:15.595 --> 00:26:17.525
<00:26:15.595>Yeah, <00:26:15.795>absolutely. <00:26:15.995>I, <00:26:16.195>I'll <00:26:16.395>give <00:26:16.595>you <00:26:16.795>an <00:26:16.995>example.

596
00:26:17.685 --> 00:26:20.085
<00:26:17.685>I <00:26:17.801>mean, <00:26:17.918>uh, <00:26:18.034>I <00:26:18.151>have <00:26:18.268>one <00:26:18.385>of <00:26:18.501>the, <00:26:18.618>one <00:26:18.735>of <00:26:18.851>our <00:26:18.968>really, <00:26:19.085>one

597
00:26:20.085 --> 00:26:21.285
<00:26:20.085>of <00:26:20.265>the <00:26:20.445>best <00:26:20.625>developers <00:26:20.805>in <00:26:20.985>our <00:26:21.165>company,

598
00:26:21.305 --> 00:26:23.965
<00:26:21.305>or <00:26:21.445>like <00:26:21.585>one <00:26:21.725>of <00:26:21.865>the <00:26:22.005>best, <00:26:22.145>we <00:26:22.285>had <00:26:22.425>to, <00:26:22.565>for <00:26:22.705>example,

599
00:26:23.965 --> 00:26:25.445
<00:26:23.965>upgrade <00:26:24.298>the <00:26:24.630>open <00:26:24.964>SSL <00:26:25.297>library.

600
00:26:25.665 --> 00:26:27.085
<00:26:25.665>So, <00:26:25.878>uh, <00:26:26.091>did <00:26:26.304>it <00:26:26.517>with <00:26:26.730>the <00:26:26.943>cursor

601
00:26:27.085 --> 00:26:29.085
<00:26:27.085>and <00:26:27.260>cursor, <00:26:27.435>did <00:26:27.610>it <00:26:27.785>within <00:26:27.960>10, <00:26:28.135>uh, <00:26:28.310>five <00:26:28.485>minutes.

602
00:26:29.395 --> 00:26:31.445
<00:26:29.395>Something <00:26:29.628>that <00:26:29.861>would <00:26:30.095>normally <00:26:30.328>take <00:26:30.561>two <00:26:30.795>weeks.

603
00:26:31.865 --> 00:26:33.805
<00:26:31.865>And <00:26:32.005>then <00:26:32.145>he <00:26:32.285>said, <00:26:32.425>yeah, <00:26:32.565>but <00:26:32.705>okay, <00:26:32.845>it <00:26:32.985>took <00:26:33.125>two <00:26:33.265>weeks.

604
00:26:33.945 --> 00:26:35.565
<00:26:33.945>Uh, <00:26:34.120>it <00:26:34.294>would, <00:26:34.470>would <00:26:34.645>normally <00:26:34.820>take <00:26:34.995>me <00:26:35.169>two <00:26:35.345>weeks.

605
00:26:35.565 --> 00:26:37.245
<00:26:35.565>Now <00:26:35.692>I <00:26:35.819>need <00:26:35.946>to <00:26:36.074>spend <00:26:36.201>two <00:26:36.328>weeks <00:26:36.455>to <00:26:36.583>just <00:26:36.710>read <00:26:36.837>the <00:26:36.965>code

606
00:26:37.245 --> 00:26:38.445
<00:26:37.245>and <00:26:37.605>understand, <00:26:37.965>otherwise <00:26:38.324>I

607
00:26:38.445 --> 00:26:39.525
<00:26:38.445>cannot <00:26:38.639>just <00:26:38.833>bring <00:26:39.028>it <00:26:39.222>to <00:26:39.417>production.

608
00:26:39.525 --> 00:26:41.205
<00:26:39.525>So <00:26:39.758>I'm <00:26:39.991>not <00:26:40.225>sure <00:26:40.458>it <00:26:40.691>saved <00:26:40.925>time.

609
00:26:41.545 --> 00:26:44.045
<00:26:41.545>And <00:26:41.745>the <00:26:41.945>other <00:26:42.145>is, <00:26:42.345>the <00:26:42.545>other <00:26:42.745>is <00:26:42.945>a

610
00:26:44.165 --> 00:26:45.285
<00:26:44.165>question, <00:26:44.366>how <00:26:44.568>do <00:26:44.769>you <00:26:44.971>use <00:26:45.173>ai?

611
00:26:45.385 --> 00:26:48.045
<00:26:45.385>So <00:26:45.540>we <00:26:45.696>talked <00:26:45.851>about <00:26:46.007>guardrails <00:26:46.162>and <00:26:46.318>maybe <00:26:46.473>a <00:26:46.629>golden <00:26:46.785>path.

612
00:26:48.105 --> 00:26:50.685
<00:26:48.105>And <00:26:48.260>I <00:26:48.416>think <00:26:48.571>that's <00:26:48.727>the <00:26:48.882>same <00:26:49.038>when <00:26:49.193>you <00:26:49.349>use, <00:26:49.505>uh,

613
00:26:50.685 --> 00:26:51.765
<00:26:50.685>coding <00:26:51.657>assistance.

614
00:26:51.765 --> 00:26:54.205
<00:26:51.765>Yeah. <00:26:51.920>You <00:26:52.076>need <00:26:52.231>to <00:26:52.387>have <00:26:52.542>your <00:26:52.698>rule <00:26:52.853>set <00:26:53.009>in <00:26:53.165>the

615
00:26:54.205 --> 00:26:55.565
<00:26:54.205>project, <00:26:54.613>a <00:26:55.021>company <00:26:55.429>standard.

616
00:26:56.305 --> 00:26:57.965
<00:26:56.305>And <00:26:56.538>this <00:26:56.771>takes <00:26:57.005>time. <00:26:57.238>It's <00:26:57.471>not <00:26:57.705>something,

617
00:26:58.525 --> 00:26:59.925
<00:26:58.525>I <00:26:58.682>guess <00:26:58.840>in <00:26:58.997>the <00:26:59.155>beginning <00:26:59.312>when <00:26:59.470>you <00:26:59.627>just <00:26:59.784>starting

618
00:26:59.945 --> 00:27:01.845
<00:26:59.945>to <00:27:00.178>use <00:27:00.411>something <00:27:00.645>like <00:27:00.878>copilot <00:27:01.111>to <00:27:01.345>cursor,

619
00:27:02.035 --> 00:27:04.925
<00:27:02.035>it's <00:27:02.175>just <00:27:02.315>a <00:27:02.455>nice <00:27:02.595>auto <00:27:02.735>complete <00:27:02.875>with, <00:27:03.015>you <00:27:03.155>can <00:27:03.295>ask <00:27:03.435>staff,

620
00:27:04.945 --> 00:27:06.725
<00:27:04.945>but <00:27:05.100>maybe <00:27:05.256>you <00:27:05.411>don't <00:27:05.567>always <00:27:05.722>get <00:27:05.878>the <00:27:06.033>results <00:27:06.189>you <00:27:06.345>want.

621
00:27:06.725 --> 00:27:08.845
<00:27:06.725>People <00:27:06.925>need <00:27:07.125>to <00:27:07.324>learn <00:27:07.524>how <00:27:07.725>to <00:27:07.925>use <00:27:08.125>it.

622
00:27:09.025 --> 00:27:10.605
<00:27:09.025>And <00:27:09.200>we <00:27:09.375>also <00:27:09.550>see <00:27:09.725>it <00:27:09.900>on <00:27:10.075>the <00:27:10.250>usage. <00:27:10.425>Yeah.

623
00:27:10.605 --> 00:27:12.965
<00:27:10.605>The <00:27:10.885>usage, <00:27:11.165>the <00:27:11.445>productivity <00:27:11.725>actually <00:27:12.005>increases.

624
00:27:13.065 --> 00:27:15.125
<00:27:13.065>The <00:27:13.345>number <00:27:13.625>of <00:27:13.905>accepted <00:27:14.185>lines <00:27:14.465>increases,

625
00:27:15.125 --> 00:27:17.205
<00:27:15.125>the <00:27:15.325>more <00:27:15.525>people <00:27:15.725>use <00:27:15.925>the, <00:27:16.125>the <00:27:16.325>coding <00:27:16.525>assistance.

626
00:27:17.205 --> 00:27:21.635
<00:27:17.205>So, <00:27:17.345>uh, <00:27:17.485>it <00:27:17.625>takes <00:27:17.764>time <00:27:17.905>to <00:27:18.044>learn <00:27:18.185>it <00:27:18.324>on <00:27:18.465>the, <00:27:18.605>plus,

627
00:27:21.835 --> 00:27:22.915
<00:27:21.835>I <00:27:21.973>think <00:27:22.112>you <00:27:22.251>do <00:27:22.390>need <00:27:22.529>to <00:27:22.668>add <00:27:22.807>some

628
00:27:23.495 --> 00:27:25.155
<00:27:23.495>around <00:27:23.961>the <00:27:24.428>company <00:27:24.895>standards.

629
00:27:26.345 --> 00:27:29.635
<00:27:26.345>Perfect, <00:27:26.520>perfect. <00:27:26.695>I'm <00:27:26.870>looking, <00:27:27.045>we <00:27:27.220>have <00:27:27.395>one <00:27:27.570>minute <00:27:27.745>left.

630
00:27:31.135 --> 00:27:33.195
<00:27:31.135>I'm <00:27:31.485>fine. <00:27:31.835>You're <00:27:32.185>fine. <00:27:32.535>Okay.

631
00:27:33.515 --> 00:27:37.115
<00:27:33.515>I, <00:27:33.655>I, <00:27:33.795>we'll <00:27:33.935>try <00:27:34.075>and <00:27:34.215>summarize <00:27:34.355>'cause <00:27:34.495>we've <00:27:34.635>covered <00:27:34.775>a <00:27:34.915>lot,

632
00:27:37.655 --> 00:27:40.875
<00:27:37.655>but <00:27:37.771>I <00:27:37.888>think, <00:27:38.004>uh, <00:27:38.121>you <00:27:38.238>know, <00:27:38.355>in <00:27:38.471>general <00:27:38.588>there <00:27:38.705>was <00:27:38.821>a <00:27:38.938>little <00:27:39.055>bit

633
00:27:40.875 --> 00:27:43.955
<00:27:40.875>of <00:27:41.108>talk <00:27:41.341>about <00:27:41.575>consolidation, <00:27:41.808>about <00:27:42.041>having <00:27:42.275>kind

634
00:27:43.955 --> 00:27:45.915
<00:27:43.955>of <00:27:44.188>golden <00:27:44.421>pathways <00:27:44.655>and <00:27:44.888>pipelines, <00:27:45.121>being <00:27:45.355>able

635
00:27:45.915 --> 00:27:48.475
<00:27:45.915>to <00:27:46.115>do <00:27:46.315>self-service, <00:27:46.514>but <00:27:46.715>making <00:27:46.915>sure <00:27:47.115>the <00:27:47.315>things

636
00:27:48.475 --> 00:27:50.195
<00:27:48.475>that <00:27:48.941>you <00:27:49.408>self-serve, <00:27:49.875>uh,

637
00:27:50.705 --> 00:27:52.195
<00:27:50.705>have <00:27:50.973>the <00:27:51.241>guardrails <00:27:51.509>built <00:27:51.777>into <00:27:52.045>them.

638
00:27:52.575 --> 00:27:55.635
<00:27:52.575>You <00:27:52.730>know, <00:27:52.886>I <00:27:53.041>I <00:27:53.197>think, <00:27:53.352>uh, <00:27:53.508>if <00:27:53.663>I <00:27:53.819>was <00:27:53.975>paraphrasing

639
00:27:55.635 --> 00:27:58.795
<00:27:55.635>what <00:27:55.751>you <00:27:55.868>were <00:27:55.985>saying, <00:27:56.101>it <00:27:56.218>is <00:27:56.335>that, <00:27:56.451>um, <00:27:56.568>you <00:27:56.685>know, <00:27:56.801>make <00:27:56.918>it <00:27:57.035>easy

640
00:27:58.815 --> 00:27:59.875
<00:27:58.815>for <00:27:58.974>them <00:27:59.133>to <00:27:59.292>do <00:27:59.451>the <00:27:59.610>right <00:27:59.769>thing

641
00:27:59.895 --> 00:28:01.315
<00:27:59.895>and <00:28:00.054>hard <00:28:00.214>for <00:28:00.374>them <00:28:00.534>to <00:28:00.693>do <00:28:00.853>the <00:28:01.013>wrong <00:28:01.173>thing.

642
00:28:01.685 --> 00:28:04.355
<00:28:01.685>Right? <00:28:01.885>Um, <00:28:02.085>but <00:28:02.284>there <00:28:02.485>is <00:28:02.685>also <00:28:02.885>a <00:28:03.085>process

643
00:28:04.495 --> 00:28:05.875
<00:28:04.495>of <00:28:04.908>taking <00:28:05.322>the <00:28:05.737>engineers

644
00:28:05.875 --> 00:28:08.155
<00:28:05.875>and <00:28:06.050>the <00:28:06.225>developers <00:28:06.400>on <00:28:06.575>the <00:28:06.750>journey <00:28:06.925>with <00:28:07.100>you, <00:28:07.275>right?

645
00:28:08.215 --> 00:28:10.115
<00:28:08.215>You <00:28:08.448>can't <00:28:08.681>just <00:28:08.915>enforce <00:28:09.148>it <00:28:09.381>from <00:28:09.615>above.

646
00:28:10.135 --> 00:28:11.155
<00:28:10.135>You <00:28:10.288>have <00:28:10.441>to <00:28:10.594>bring <00:28:10.747>them <00:28:10.900>with <00:28:11.053>you

647
00:28:11.175 --> 00:28:12.235
<00:28:11.175>and <00:28:11.413>provide <00:28:11.652>them <00:28:11.890>that <00:28:12.129>freedom

648
00:28:12.295 --> 00:28:14.035
<00:28:12.295>and <00:28:12.528>comfort <00:28:12.761>that <00:28:12.995>they <00:28:13.228>can, <00:28:13.461>you <00:28:13.695>know,

649
00:28:15.495 --> 00:28:16.555
<00:28:15.495>do <00:28:15.733>all <00:28:15.972>the <00:28:16.210>right <00:28:16.449>things.

650
00:28:17.095 --> 00:28:19.555
<00:28:17.095>Uh, <00:28:17.270>but, <00:28:17.445>you <00:28:17.620>know, <00:28:17.795>be <00:28:17.970>part <00:28:18.145>of <00:28:18.320>the <00:28:18.495>journey.

651
00:28:19.935 --> 00:28:21.795
<00:28:19.935>You <00:28:20.075>know, <00:28:20.215>don't <00:28:20.355>do <00:28:20.495>it <00:28:20.635>to <00:28:20.774>them. <00:28:20.915>Do <00:28:21.054>it <00:28:21.195>with <00:28:21.335>them.

652
00:28:22.115 --> 00:28:23.875
<00:28:22.115>I <00:28:22.270>think <00:28:22.426>would <00:28:22.581>be <00:28:22.737>the, <00:28:22.892>the <00:28:23.048>best <00:28:23.203>summary <00:28:23.359>of <00:28:23.515>that.

653
00:28:24.255 --> 00:28:26.715
<00:28:24.255>So <00:28:24.382>with <00:28:24.509>that, <00:28:24.636>I <00:28:24.764>have <00:28:24.891>to <00:28:25.018>say <00:28:25.145>thank <00:28:25.273>you <00:28:25.400>very, <00:28:25.527>very <00:28:25.655>much

654
00:28:26.735 --> 00:28:27.395
<00:28:26.735>for <00:28:27.032>coming <00:28:27.329>in.