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<00:00:12.235>Hello, <00:00:12.410>and <00:00:12.584>welcome <00:00:12.760>to <00:00:12.934>another <00:00:13.110>of <00:00:13.285>our <00:00:13.459>outside <00:00:13.635>broadcasts

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<00:00:15.605>for, <00:00:15.805>uh, <00:00:16.004>an <00:00:16.205>episode <00:00:16.405>of <00:00:16.605>Coffee <00:00:16.805>with <00:00:17.005>Developers.

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<00:00:17.585>This <00:00:17.785>time <00:00:17.985>at <00:00:18.185>day <00:00:18.385>two <00:00:18.585>of <00:00:18.785>the <00:00:18.985>Merge,

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<00:00:23.705>I <00:00:23.938>am <00:00:24.171>doing <00:00:24.404>great, <00:00:24.638>thank <00:00:24.871>you. <00:00:25.104>It's

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<00:00:25.505>A <00:00:25.657>little <00:00:25.808>less <00:00:25.961>sunny <00:00:26.113>than <00:00:26.265>it <00:00:26.416>has <00:00:26.569>been <00:00:26.721>for <00:00:26.872>some

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<00:00:27.025>of <00:00:27.165>the <00:00:27.305>other, <00:00:27.445>uh, <00:00:27.584>sessions, <00:00:27.724>I'll <00:00:27.865>be <00:00:28.005>honest <00:00:28.145>with <00:00:28.284>you, <00:00:28.424>Robbie,

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<00:00:30.285>It <00:00:30.559>works <00:00:30.834>for <00:00:31.108>my <00:00:31.383>complexion.

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<00:00:32.905>getting <00:00:33.105>a <00:00:33.305>sunburn, <00:00:33.505>so <00:00:33.705>this <00:00:33.905>is <00:00:34.105>great. <00:00:34.305>Yeah,

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<00:00:48.785>Uh, <00:00:48.925>yeah, <00:00:49.065>I <00:00:49.205>gave <00:00:49.345>a <00:00:49.485>talk <00:00:49.625>yesterday, <00:00:49.764>but <00:00:49.904>aside <00:00:50.044>from <00:00:50.184>that

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<00:00:58.265>I <00:00:58.405>think <00:00:58.545>I <00:00:58.685>was <00:00:58.825>talking <00:00:58.965>about <00:00:59.105>a <00:00:59.245>couple <00:00:59.385>people <00:00:59.525>earlier, <00:00:59.665>what,

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<00:01:00.345>what <00:01:00.519>do <00:01:00.695>I <00:01:00.870>appreciate <00:01:01.045>about <00:01:01.220>this <00:01:01.394>particular <00:01:01.570>conference <00:01:01.745>is

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<00:01:05.525>and <00:01:05.680>we're <00:01:05.836>talking <00:01:05.991>about <00:01:06.147>a <00:01:06.302>lot <00:01:06.458>of <00:01:06.613>open <00:01:06.769>source <00:01:06.925>things.

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<00:01:16.185>developers <00:01:16.473>building <00:01:16.761>things <00:01:17.049>and <00:01:17.337>sharing.

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<00:01:19.345>and <00:01:19.520>it <00:01:19.695>hasn't <00:01:19.870>felt <00:01:20.045>like <00:01:20.220>a <00:01:20.395>huge <00:01:20.570>job <00:01:20.745>fair

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<00:01:21.895>recruitment <00:01:22.595>thing <00:01:23.295>necessarily.

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<00:01:23.505>People <00:01:23.705>are <00:01:23.905>just <00:01:24.104>generally <00:01:24.304>interested, <00:01:24.505>and <00:01:24.705>maybe <00:01:24.905>that's

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<00:01:25.865>because <00:01:26.003>I <00:01:26.142>work <00:01:26.281>on <00:01:26.420>an <00:01:26.559>open <00:01:26.698>source <00:01:26.836>project,

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<00:01:26.945>people <00:01:27.085>wanna <00:01:27.225>talk <00:01:27.365>about <00:01:27.505>that, <00:01:27.645>but <00:01:27.785>I've <00:01:27.925>not <00:01:28.065>had <00:01:28.205>a <00:01:28.345>lot

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<00:01:28.825>of <00:01:28.997>conversations <00:01:29.170>where <00:01:29.343>people <00:01:29.516>are <00:01:29.689>trying

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<00:01:29.785>to <00:01:29.893>hit <00:01:30.000>me <00:01:30.109>up <00:01:30.217>for <00:01:30.324>a <00:01:30.433>job.

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<00:01:30.925>And <00:01:31.205>that's, <00:01:31.485>I <00:01:31.765>appreciate <00:01:32.045>that <00:01:32.325>sometimes

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<00:01:32.545>that <00:01:32.745>some <00:01:32.945>conferences, <00:01:33.145>nothing, <00:01:33.345>nothing <00:01:33.545>wrong <00:01:33.745>with <00:01:33.945>that,

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<00:01:34.765>but <00:01:35.155>just, <00:01:35.545>I'm <00:01:35.935>kind

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<00:01:36.065>of <00:01:36.298>appreciating <00:01:36.531>that <00:01:36.765>about <00:01:36.998>this <00:01:37.231>conference. <00:01:37.465>Yeah,

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<00:01:38.065>I <00:01:38.192>think <00:01:38.319>we <00:01:38.446>were <00:01:38.574>both <00:01:38.701>saying <00:01:38.828>earlier <00:01:38.955>on <00:01:39.083>that <00:01:39.210>we, <00:01:39.337>you <00:01:39.465>know,

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<00:01:39.685>we <00:01:39.965>definitely <00:01:40.245>appreciate <00:01:40.525>the, <00:01:40.805>uh, <00:01:41.085>hate

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<00:01:41.305>to <00:01:41.503>use <00:01:41.701>the <00:01:41.899>phrase <00:01:42.097>vibe, <00:01:42.295>but <00:01:42.493>it's,

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<00:01:42.655>it's, <00:01:42.882>yeah, <00:01:43.109>it's <00:01:43.336>quite <00:01:43.564>fitting.

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<00:01:44.085>Um, <00:01:44.260>so <00:01:44.435>Robbie, <00:01:44.610>before <00:01:44.785>we <00:01:44.960>get <00:01:45.135>into <00:01:45.310>open <00:01:45.485>source,

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<00:01:46.485>and <00:01:46.612>I'm, <00:01:46.739>I'm <00:01:46.866>glad <00:01:46.994>you <00:01:47.121>are, <00:01:47.248>um, <00:01:47.375>happy <00:01:47.503>to <00:01:47.630>talk <00:01:47.757>about <00:01:47.885>that

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<00:01:48.185>because <00:01:48.340>I've <00:01:48.496>got <00:01:48.651>plenty <00:01:48.807>of <00:01:48.962>questions <00:01:49.118>lined <00:01:49.273>up <00:01:49.429>about <00:01:49.585>it.

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<00:01:50.085>Um, <00:01:50.225>before <00:01:50.365>we <00:01:50.505>get <00:01:50.645>into <00:01:50.785>that, <00:01:50.925>let's, <00:01:51.065>let's <00:01:51.205>go <00:01:51.345>right <00:01:51.485>back.

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<00:01:52.645>Now, <00:01:52.845>when <00:01:53.045>I <00:01:53.245>say <00:01:53.445>go <00:01:53.645>right <00:01:53.845>back, <00:01:54.045>um,

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<00:01:54.384>I <00:01:54.553>don't <00:01:54.720>mean <00:01:54.889>to <00:01:55.056>the <00:01:55.225>very <00:01:55.393>beginning.

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<00:01:55.505>This <00:01:55.679>isn't, <00:01:55.854>you <00:01:56.029>know, <00:01:56.204>this <00:01:56.379>is <00:01:56.554>your <00:01:56.729>life,

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<00:01:57.125>but, <00:01:57.252>um, <00:01:57.379>tell <00:01:57.506>me <00:01:57.634>more <00:01:57.761>about <00:01:57.888>how <00:01:58.015>you <00:01:58.143>first <00:01:58.270>got <00:01:58.397>started <00:01:58.525>in,

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<00:02:00.645>in <00:02:00.878>the <00:02:01.111>world <00:02:01.345>of <00:02:01.578>development <00:02:01.811>and <00:02:02.045>software

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<00:02:02.365>and <00:02:02.539>what's <00:02:02.714>your, <00:02:02.890>some, <00:02:03.065>some <00:02:03.240>of <00:02:03.414>your <00:02:03.589>earliest <00:02:03.765>memories?

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<00:02:04.485>My <00:02:04.640>earliest <00:02:04.796>memory <00:02:04.951>is <00:02:05.107>my <00:02:05.262>dad <00:02:05.418>buying <00:02:05.573>me <00:02:05.729>a <00:02:05.885>computer

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<00:02:07.185>programming <00:02:07.340>book <00:02:07.496>when <00:02:07.651>I <00:02:07.807>was <00:02:07.962>about <00:02:08.118>six <00:02:08.273>to <00:02:08.429>build <00:02:08.585>games.

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<00:02:10.205>And <00:02:10.438>it <00:02:10.671>was <00:02:10.905>the <00:02:11.138>most <00:02:11.371>boring <00:02:11.605>looking

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<00:02:12.985>thing <00:02:13.219>I <00:02:13.453>could <00:02:13.687>possibly <00:02:13.921>do.

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<00:02:14.165>Uh, <00:02:14.292>he's <00:02:14.419>like, <00:02:14.546>if <00:02:14.674>you <00:02:14.801>write <00:02:14.928>all <00:02:15.055>the <00:02:15.183>code <00:02:15.310>that's <00:02:15.437>in <00:02:15.565>this,

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<00:02:16.925>all <00:02:17.065>these <00:02:17.205>pages <00:02:17.345>in <00:02:17.485>this <00:02:17.625>book, <00:02:17.765>you <00:02:17.905>can <00:02:18.045>play <00:02:18.185>this <00:02:18.325>game.

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<00:02:18.785>And <00:02:18.924>I <00:02:19.065>was <00:02:19.204>like, <00:02:19.345>but <00:02:19.484>then <00:02:19.625>someone <00:02:19.765>already <00:02:19.905>write <00:02:20.045>that <00:02:20.185>code.

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<00:02:21.405>Why <00:02:21.576>can't <00:02:21.747>we <00:02:21.918>just <00:02:22.089>play <00:02:22.260>the <00:02:22.431>game?

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<00:02:22.885>I'm <00:02:23.022>gonna <00:02:23.159>go <00:02:23.296>outside <00:02:23.434>and <00:02:23.571>play <00:02:23.708>with <00:02:23.845>my <00:02:23.983>friends.

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<00:02:24.105>That's, <00:02:24.347>this <00:02:24.591>seems <00:02:24.834>boring. <00:02:25.077>I'm

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<00:02:25.185>just <00:02:25.465>retyping <00:02:25.745>what's <00:02:26.025>in <00:02:26.305>a <00:02:26.585>book.

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<00:02:27.805>So <00:02:27.921>I <00:02:28.038>failed <00:02:28.155>to <00:02:28.271>learn <00:02:28.388>how <00:02:28.505>to <00:02:28.621>be <00:02:28.738>a <00:02:28.855>programmer <00:02:28.971>as <00:02:29.088>a <00:02:29.205>kid,

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<00:02:29.865>and <00:02:30.005>my <00:02:30.145>dad <00:02:30.285>dreamed <00:02:30.425>that <00:02:30.565>I <00:02:30.705>would <00:02:30.845>become <00:02:30.985>a <00:02:31.125>software <00:02:31.265>developer,

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<00:02:32.645>and <00:02:32.878>haha, <00:02:33.111>I <00:02:33.345>think <00:02:33.578>he <00:02:33.811>won <00:02:34.045>eventually.

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<00:02:35.485>But <00:02:35.962>the, <00:02:36.439>um,

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<00:02:38.005>how <00:02:38.132>I <00:02:38.259>actually <00:02:38.386>started <00:02:38.514>getting <00:02:38.641>into <00:02:38.768>it <00:02:38.895>was <00:02:39.023>when <00:02:39.150>I <00:02:39.277>was <00:02:39.405>a

78
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<00:02:41.745>teenager, <00:02:41.925>and <00:02:42.105>this <00:02:42.285>is <00:02:42.465>in <00:02:42.645>the, <00:02:42.825>you <00:02:43.005>know,

79
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<00:02:43.145>the <00:02:43.457>mid <00:02:43.769>late <00:02:44.081>nineties.

80
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<00:02:44.945>I <00:02:45.120>wanted <00:02:45.295>to, <00:02:45.470>I <00:02:45.644>was <00:02:45.820>really <00:02:45.995>interested <00:02:46.170>in <00:02:46.345>stickers

81
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<00:02:47.245>and <00:02:47.507>selling <00:02:47.770>stickers <00:02:48.033>on <00:02:48.296>the <00:02:48.559>internet,

82
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<00:02:49.005>and <00:02:49.121>I, <00:02:49.238>I <00:02:49.355>wanted <00:02:49.471>to, <00:02:49.588>I <00:02:49.704>was <00:02:49.821>doing <00:02:49.938>actually <00:02:50.055>like <00:02:50.171>a <00:02:50.288>mail <00:02:50.405>order,

83
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<00:02:51.715>physically <00:02:51.948>sending <00:02:52.181>people <00:02:52.415>stickers <00:02:52.648>in <00:02:52.881>the <00:02:53.115>mail,

84
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<00:02:54.565>and <00:02:54.704>people <00:02:54.845>were <00:02:54.984>sending <00:02:55.125>me <00:02:55.265>checks <00:02:55.405>in <00:02:55.545>the <00:02:55.685>mail <00:02:55.825>for <00:02:55.965>that,

85
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<00:02:56.605>or <00:02:56.838>sending <00:02:57.071>me <00:02:57.304>dollar <00:02:57.538>bills <00:02:57.771>for <00:02:58.005>stickers.

86
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<00:02:59.025>How <00:02:59.180>do <00:02:59.336>I <00:02:59.491>build <00:02:59.647>this, <00:02:59.802>build <00:02:59.958>a <00:03:00.113>webpage <00:03:00.269>for <00:03:00.425>this?

87
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<00:03:01.505>So <00:03:01.680>I <00:03:01.855>started <00:03:02.030>learning <00:03:02.204>how <00:03:02.380>to <00:03:02.555>build <00:03:02.730>a <00:03:02.905>webpage

88
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<00:03:03.955>that <00:03:04.155>could <00:03:04.355>allow <00:03:04.555>people <00:03:04.755>to <00:03:04.955>submit <00:03:05.155>a <00:03:05.355>form.

89
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<00:03:05.705>So <00:03:05.860>I <00:03:06.016>just <00:03:06.171>kind <00:03:06.327>of <00:03:06.482>like <00:03:06.638>kept <00:03:06.793>building <00:03:06.949>these <00:03:07.105>little

90
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<00:03:07.475>incremental <00:03:07.650>steps <00:03:07.825>of <00:03:08.000>like, <00:03:08.174>how <00:03:08.350>do <00:03:08.525>I <00:03:08.700>have <00:03:08.875>like,

91
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<00:03:10.245>a <00:03:10.385>pearl <00:03:10.525>script <00:03:10.665>saves <00:03:10.805>to <00:03:10.945>a <00:03:11.085>file, <00:03:11.225>eventually <00:03:11.365>you <00:03:11.505>learn <00:03:11.645>how

92
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<00:03:13.845>to <00:03:14.067>make <00:03:14.289>a <00:03:14.511>database <00:03:14.733>and <00:03:14.954>then <00:03:15.177>realized

93
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<00:03:15.325>that <00:03:15.559>nobody's <00:03:15.793>buying <00:03:16.027>your <00:03:16.261>stickers.

94
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<00:03:17.265>But <00:03:17.506>it <00:03:17.747>was <00:03:17.988>just <00:03:18.229>kinda <00:03:18.471>like,

95
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<00:03:18.605>that <00:03:18.780>was <00:03:18.954>my <00:03:19.130>first <00:03:19.304>stepping <00:03:19.480>stones, <00:03:19.655>was <00:03:19.829>learning <00:03:20.005>how

96
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<00:03:21.485>to <00:03:21.800>make <00:03:22.115>webpages, <00:03:22.430>learning <00:03:22.745>how

97
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<00:03:22.885>to <00:03:23.080>make <00:03:23.275>like <00:03:23.471>a <00:03:23.666>CGI <00:03:23.862>form <00:03:24.057>in <00:03:24.253>Pearl,

98
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<00:03:25.185>and <00:03:25.332>then <00:03:25.478>how <00:03:25.626>to <00:03:25.773>work <00:03:25.920>on <00:03:26.067>some

99
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<00:03:26.245>PHP <00:03:26.489>stuff <00:03:26.734>and <00:03:26.979>do <00:03:27.224>similar <00:03:27.469>things.

100
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<00:03:27.704>And <00:03:27.869>then <00:03:28.035>that <00:03:28.200>kind <00:03:28.365>of <00:03:28.530>just <00:03:28.695>kept,

101
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<00:03:28.995>kept <00:03:29.206>building <00:03:29.418>up <00:03:29.629>all <00:03:29.841>these <00:03:30.052>little <00:03:30.264>skills

102
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<00:03:30.704>to <00:03:30.893>work <00:03:31.083>on <00:03:31.272>all <00:03:31.460>these <00:03:31.650>other <00:03:31.839>projects.

103
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<00:03:32.305>And <00:03:32.539>it <00:03:32.773>was <00:03:33.007>never <00:03:33.241>about <00:03:33.475>software

104
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<00:03:33.605>programming <00:03:33.988>that <00:03:34.373>was <00:03:34.757>exciting.

105
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<00:03:34.905>It <00:03:35.064>was <00:03:35.224>like, <00:03:35.384>what <00:03:35.543>can <00:03:35.703>I <00:03:35.863>do <00:03:36.023>with <00:03:36.183>it?

106
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<00:03:36.545>It <00:03:36.700>was <00:03:36.856>like, <00:03:37.011>I <00:03:37.167>wanna <00:03:37.322>sell <00:03:37.478>stickers <00:03:37.633>on <00:03:37.789>the <00:03:37.945>internet,

107
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<00:03:38.525>or <00:03:38.682>I <00:03:38.840>wanna <00:03:38.997>put <00:03:39.155>a <00:03:39.312>zine <00:03:39.470>on <00:03:39.627>the <00:03:39.785>internet,

108
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<00:03:39.925>and <00:03:40.052>how <00:03:40.179>do <00:03:40.306>I <00:03:40.434>have <00:03:40.561>a <00:03:40.688>project <00:03:40.815>that <00:03:40.943>people <00:03:41.070>can <00:03:41.197>collaborate <00:03:41.325>with

109
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<00:03:42.585>and, <00:03:42.740>and <00:03:42.896>they <00:03:43.051>can <00:03:43.207>write <00:03:43.362>stuff <00:03:43.518>into, <00:03:43.673>uh, <00:03:43.829>a <00:03:43.985>webpage

110
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<00:03:45.565>and <00:03:45.720>it'll <00:03:45.876>save <00:03:46.031>in <00:03:46.187>the <00:03:46.342>database <00:03:46.498>and <00:03:46.653>it'll <00:03:46.809>share <00:03:46.965>that.

111
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<00:03:47.704>And <00:03:47.860>so <00:03:48.016>I <00:03:48.171>just <00:03:48.327>kept <00:03:48.482>building <00:03:48.638>all <00:03:48.793>these <00:03:48.949>little <00:03:49.105>incremental

112
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<00:03:51.015>tools, <00:03:51.154>I <00:03:51.295>guess, <00:03:51.434>in <00:03:51.575>my <00:03:51.714>tool <00:03:51.855>belt <00:03:51.994>to <00:03:52.135>build <00:03:52.274>web <00:03:52.415>apps.

113
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<00:03:54.745>Um, <00:03:55.028>and <00:03:55.312>then <00:03:55.595>I <00:03:55.879>started,

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<00:03:56.345>and <00:03:56.472>then <00:03:56.599>that <00:03:56.726>evolved <00:03:56.854>into <00:03:56.981>also <00:03:57.108>how <00:03:57.235>I <00:03:57.363>got <00:03:57.490>sort <00:03:57.617>of <00:03:57.745>in,

115
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<00:04:00.905>and <00:04:01.060>specifically <00:04:01.216>with <00:04:01.371>open <00:04:01.527>source <00:04:01.682>was <00:04:01.838>taking <00:04:01.993>down <00:04:02.149>like <00:04:02.305>maybe

116
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<00:04:03.765>some <00:04:03.998>PHP <00:04:04.231>project <00:04:04.464>or <00:04:04.698>a <00:04:04.931>pearl <00:04:05.165>project.

117
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<00:04:06.545>And <00:04:06.672>then <00:04:06.799>I'm <00:04:06.926>like, <00:04:07.054>great, <00:04:07.181>this <00:04:07.308>looks <00:04:07.435>not <00:04:07.563>how <00:04:07.690>I <00:04:07.817>want <00:04:07.945>it

118
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<00:04:09.045>to <00:04:09.172>work, <00:04:09.299>so <00:04:09.426>I'm <00:04:09.554>gonna, <00:04:09.681>I'm <00:04:09.808>gonna <00:04:09.935>make, <00:04:10.063>I'm <00:04:10.190>gonna <00:04:10.317>modify <00:04:10.445>it.

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<00:04:12.625>How <00:04:12.741>do <00:04:12.858>I <00:04:12.975>modify <00:04:13.091>it <00:04:13.208>to <00:04:13.325>build <00:04:13.441>this <00:04:13.558>website <00:04:13.675>that <00:04:13.791>I <00:04:13.908>wanna <00:04:14.025>build?

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<00:04:14.945>So <00:04:15.100>I <00:04:15.256>just <00:04:15.411>started <00:04:15.567>figuring <00:04:15.722>how <00:04:15.878>to <00:04:16.033>like, <00:04:16.189>make <00:04:16.344>changes

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<00:04:17.265>and <00:04:17.435>figure <00:04:17.606>it <00:04:17.777>out <00:04:17.948>as <00:04:18.120>I <00:04:18.291>go.

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123
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<00:04:20.204>coding <00:04:20.421>school <00:04:20.637>or <00:04:20.852>anything <00:04:21.068>like <00:04:21.284>that.

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<00:04:21.915>Yeah. <00:04:22.070>Because <00:04:22.226>it <00:04:22.381>was <00:04:22.537>a <00:04:22.692>very <00:04:22.848>different <00:04:23.003>time, <00:04:23.159>you <00:04:23.315>know,

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<00:04:23.565>I <00:04:23.692>could <00:04:23.819>relate <00:04:23.946>to <00:04:24.074>some <00:04:24.201>of <00:04:24.328>what <00:04:24.455>you <00:04:24.583>were <00:04:24.710>saying <00:04:24.837>there <00:04:24.965>about

126
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<00:04:25.165>these <00:04:25.507>incremental <00:04:25.849>kind <00:04:26.191>of <00:04:26.533>improvements

127
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<00:04:26.705>and, <00:04:26.938>uh, <00:04:27.171>it, <00:04:27.405>it <00:04:27.638>felt <00:04:27.871>very <00:04:28.104>difficult

128
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<00:04:28.485>to <00:04:28.744>find <00:04:29.003>a <00:04:29.262>very <00:04:29.521>clear <00:04:29.781>path

129
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<00:04:29.985>and <00:04:30.177>a <00:04:30.370>track <00:04:30.563>that <00:04:30.756>now <00:04:30.949>you <00:04:31.142>could <00:04:31.335>find.

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<00:04:31.485>And <00:04:31.640>we've <00:04:31.796>got, <00:04:31.951>you <00:04:32.107>know, <00:04:32.262>terminology <00:04:32.418>that <00:04:32.573>would <00:04:32.729>tell <00:04:32.885>you,

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<00:04:33.325>okay, <00:04:33.480>I'm <00:04:33.636>on <00:04:33.791>the <00:04:33.947>front <00:04:34.102>end, <00:04:34.258>uh, <00:04:34.413>track, <00:04:34.569>for <00:04:34.724>example.

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<00:04:37.505>Um, <00:04:37.660>do <00:04:37.816>you <00:04:37.971>think <00:04:38.127>that <00:04:38.282>the, <00:04:38.438>the <00:04:38.593>open <00:04:38.749>source <00:04:38.905>communities

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<00:04:40.005>that <00:04:40.248>you <00:04:40.491>then <00:04:40.734>began <00:04:40.977>to,

135
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<00:04:41.085>to <00:04:41.284>join <00:04:41.484>helped <00:04:41.685>you <00:04:41.885>to <00:04:42.085>find <00:04:42.284>that <00:04:42.484>direction?

136
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<00:04:43.685>A <00:04:43.840>a <00:04:43.996>little <00:04:44.151>bit, <00:04:44.307>but <00:04:44.462>I <00:04:44.618>never, <00:04:44.773>at <00:04:44.929>that <00:04:45.085>point,

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<00:04:45.485>I <00:04:45.640>never <00:04:45.796>thought <00:04:45.951>that <00:04:46.107>I <00:04:46.262>was <00:04:46.418>going <00:04:46.573>down <00:04:46.729>the <00:04:46.885>path

138
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<00:04:47.445>that <00:04:47.600>becoming <00:04:47.756>a <00:04:47.911>software <00:04:48.067>engineer <00:04:48.222>as <00:04:48.378>a, <00:04:48.533>as <00:04:48.689>a <00:04:48.844>career,

139
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<00:04:51.045>I <00:04:51.333>had <00:04:51.621>no <00:04:51.909>career <00:04:52.197>ambitions.

140
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<00:04:52.665>If <00:04:52.838>you'll <00:04:53.011>find <00:04:53.184>a <00:04:53.358>theme <00:04:53.531>in <00:04:53.704>my <00:04:53.877>life <00:04:54.051>is

141
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<00:04:54.205>that <00:04:54.405>I <00:04:54.604>have <00:04:54.805>no <00:04:55.005>vision <00:04:55.205>for <00:04:55.405>the <00:04:55.604>future.

142
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<00:04:56.485>I <00:04:56.715>just <00:04:56.945>stumble <00:04:57.176>into <00:04:57.406>these <00:04:57.637>things.

143
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<00:04:57.865>I'm <00:04:58.048>like, <00:04:58.231>oh, <00:04:58.414>this <00:04:58.597>is <00:04:58.780>an <00:04:58.962>opportunity.

144
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<00:04:59.085>Maybe <00:04:59.272>I'll <00:04:59.459>see <00:04:59.646>where <00:04:59.833>this <00:05:00.021>goes.

145
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<00:05:01.155>This <00:05:01.354>is, <00:05:01.554>you <00:05:01.755>know, <00:05:01.955>maybe <00:05:02.155>better <00:05:02.354>than, <00:05:02.554>um,

146
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<00:05:03.295>doing <00:05:03.566>tech <00:05:03.838>support <00:05:04.110>for <00:05:04.382>people's <00:05:04.654>computers.

147
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<00:05:04.805>I <00:05:04.912>guess <00:05:05.020>I <00:05:05.128>could <00:05:05.235>build <00:05:05.343>web <00:05:05.451>apps. <00:05:05.558>Um, <00:05:05.666>so <00:05:05.774>I <00:05:05.881>think <00:05:05.989>it <00:05:06.097>was <00:05:06.205>always

148
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<00:05:07.795>because <00:05:07.935>I <00:05:08.075>was <00:05:08.215>picking <00:05:08.355>up <00:05:08.495>all <00:05:08.635>these <00:05:08.775>things, <00:05:08.915>people <00:05:09.055>saw <00:05:09.195>me,

149
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<00:05:10.255>other <00:05:10.486>people <00:05:10.718>didn't <00:05:10.950>know <00:05:11.182>how

150
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<00:05:11.285>to <00:05:11.439>do <00:05:11.593>the <00:05:11.747>thought <00:05:11.902>that <00:05:12.056>I <00:05:12.210>was <00:05:12.365>smart.

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<00:07:05.865>but <00:07:05.992>I <00:07:06.119>think <00:07:06.246>the, <00:07:06.374>the <00:07:06.501>thing <00:07:06.628>that <00:07:06.755>I <00:07:06.883>think <00:07:07.010>resonated <00:07:07.137>so <00:07:07.265>much

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<00:07:08.845>with <00:07:08.985>people <00:07:09.125>was <00:07:09.265>that <00:07:09.405>eunuch <00:07:09.545>shells <00:07:09.685>by <00:07:09.825>default <00:07:09.965>are <00:07:10.105>they <00:07:10.245>look

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<00:07:14.845>Mm-Hmm. <00:07:15.000>It's <00:07:15.156>like <00:07:15.311>a <00:07:15.467>dollar <00:07:15.622>symbol <00:07:15.778>or <00:07:15.933>a <00:07:16.089>percent <00:07:16.245>symbol.

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<00:07:26.485>and <00:07:26.718>you're <00:07:26.951>like, <00:07:27.185>what <00:07:27.418>do <00:07:27.651>I <00:07:27.885>do?

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<00:09:41.785>Um, <00:09:41.925>or <00:09:42.064>at <00:09:42.204>least <00:09:42.344>simplifying <00:09:42.485>it <00:09:42.625>in <00:09:42.765>some <00:09:42.905>way. <00:09:43.045>So, <00:09:43.185>right.

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<00:09:50.765>on <00:09:50.998>a <00:09:51.231>website <00:09:51.465>with <00:09:51.698>a <00:09:51.931>dollar <00:09:52.165>symbol

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<00:09:52.625>and <00:09:52.784>you're <00:09:52.943>like, <00:09:53.102>why <00:09:53.261>isn't <00:09:53.420>it <00:09:53.579>working?

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<00:09:53.755>It's <00:09:53.910>'cause <00:09:54.066>you <00:09:54.221>pasted <00:09:54.377>the <00:09:54.532>dollar <00:09:54.688>symbol, <00:09:54.843>not <00:09:54.999>thinking <00:09:55.155>like,

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<00:09:57.165>oh, <00:09:57.320>actually <00:09:57.476>you're <00:09:57.631>supposed <00:09:57.787>to <00:09:57.942>ignore <00:09:58.098>that <00:09:58.253>part <00:09:58.409>of <00:09:58.564>it.

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<00:10:01.365>something <00:10:01.598>and <00:10:01.831>it's <00:10:02.065>like, <00:10:02.298>that's <00:10:02.531>just <00:10:02.765>meant

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<00:10:03.125>that <00:10:03.305>it's <00:10:03.485>like <00:10:03.665>a <00:10:03.845>terminal <00:10:04.025>thing.

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<00:10:04.345>Um, <00:10:04.485>fun <00:10:04.625>fact <00:10:04.765>about, <00:10:04.905>oh <00:10:05.045>my <00:10:05.185>zhe, <00:10:05.325>the <00:10:05.465>default <00:10:05.605>thing, <00:10:05.745>uh,

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<00:10:08.865>in <00:10:09.145>shell <00:10:09.425>is <00:10:09.705>a <00:10:09.985>percent <00:10:10.265>symbol.

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<00:10:11.665>And <00:10:11.899>when <00:10:12.133>we <00:10:12.367>designed <00:10:12.601>the <00:10:12.835>logo,

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<00:10:14.005>'cause <00:10:14.180>my <00:10:14.355>prompt <00:10:14.530>had <00:10:14.705>been <00:10:14.880>so <00:10:15.055>different, <00:10:15.230>I <00:10:15.405>forgot.

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<00:10:16.545>So <00:10:16.851>the <00:10:17.157>actual <00:10:17.463>logo,

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<00:10:17.905>the <00:10:18.100>original <00:10:18.295>logo <00:10:18.490>had <00:10:18.685>a <00:10:18.880>dollar <00:10:19.075>symbol

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<00:10:19.205>in <00:10:19.379>it, <00:10:19.553>which <00:10:19.727>is <00:10:19.901>a <00:10:20.075>bash <00:10:20.249>thing.

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<00:10:20.465>And <00:10:20.739>so <00:10:21.014>for <00:10:21.288>like <00:10:21.563>eight

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<00:10:21.685>to <00:10:21.812>10 <00:10:21.939>years <00:10:22.066>I <00:10:22.194>didn't <00:10:22.321>even <00:10:22.448>realize <00:10:22.575>our <00:10:22.703>logo <00:10:22.830>had <00:10:22.957>a <00:10:23.084>bash

295
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<00:10:23.885>reference <00:10:24.118>and <00:10:24.351>nobody, <00:10:24.585>nobody <00:10:24.818>pointed <00:10:25.051>it <00:10:25.285>out.

296
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<00:10:27.945>So <00:10:28.085>anyways, <00:10:28.225>there's <00:10:28.365>a <00:10:28.505>lot <00:10:28.645>of <00:10:28.785>people <00:10:28.925>with <00:10:29.065>t-shirts <00:10:29.205>out <00:10:29.345>there

297
00:10:31.165 --> 00:10:33.485
<00:10:31.165>that <00:10:31.292>have <00:10:31.419>dollar <00:10:31.546>symbols <00:10:31.674>on <00:10:31.801>it <00:10:31.928>and <00:10:32.055>it <00:10:32.183>should <00:10:32.310>not <00:10:32.437>be <00:10:32.564>there.

298
00:10:33.765 --> 00:10:35.405
<00:10:33.765>I <00:10:33.998>like <00:10:34.231>it. <00:10:34.465>Hidden <00:10:34.698>symbolism. <00:10:34.931>Very <00:10:35.165>nice.

299
00:10:35.825 --> 00:10:39.285
<00:10:35.825>Um, <00:10:35.952>so <00:10:36.079>you've <00:10:36.206>got <00:10:36.334>on, <00:10:36.461>on, <00:10:36.588>you <00:10:36.715>know, <00:10:36.843>around <00:10:36.970>uh, <00:10:37.097>MIZ <00:10:37.225>shower,

300
00:10:39.285 --> 00:10:40.845
<00:10:39.285>you've <00:10:39.518>got <00:10:39.751>this <00:10:39.985>idea <00:10:40.218>of <00:10:40.451>community <00:10:40.685>driven.

301
00:10:41.345 --> 00:10:42.805
<00:10:41.345>Now <00:10:41.564>we <00:10:41.783>obviously <00:10:42.002>use <00:10:42.221>the <00:10:42.439>word <00:10:42.659>community

302
00:10:42.845 --> 00:10:43.885
<00:10:42.845>a <00:10:42.978>lot <00:10:43.112>when <00:10:43.246>we're <00:10:43.379>talking <00:10:43.513>about <00:10:43.647>open <00:10:43.781>source.

303
00:10:43.885 --> 00:10:45.165
<00:10:43.885>What's <00:10:44.173>the <00:10:44.461>driven <00:10:44.749>part <00:10:45.036>though?

304
00:10:46.585 --> 00:10:49.085
<00:10:46.585>93% <00:10:46.818>of <00:10:47.051>the <00:10:47.285>code <00:10:47.518>has <00:10:47.751>been <00:10:47.985>written

305
00:10:49.085 --> 00:10:51.525
<00:10:49.085>by <00:10:49.318>other <00:10:49.551>people <00:10:49.785>in, <00:10:50.018>in <00:10:50.251>the <00:10:50.485>community.

306
00:10:51.785 --> 00:10:54.925
<00:10:51.785>So <00:10:51.985>we <00:10:52.185>have <00:10:52.385>contributions <00:10:52.584>from <00:10:52.785>nearly <00:10:52.985>2,400 <00:10:53.185>developers.

307
00:10:56.605 --> 00:10:58.405
<00:10:56.605>I, <00:10:56.745>I <00:10:56.885>talk <00:10:57.025>about <00:10:57.165>this <00:10:57.305>a <00:10:57.445>little <00:10:57.585>bit <00:10:57.725>in <00:10:57.865>my <00:10:58.005>talk.

308
00:10:58.725 --> 00:10:59.805
<00:10:58.725>I <00:10:58.919>think <00:10:59.113>of <00:10:59.308>myself <00:10:59.502>as <00:10:59.697>more

309
00:10:59.805 --> 00:11:01.885
<00:10:59.805>of <00:11:00.005>a <00:11:00.204>curator <00:11:00.405>than <00:11:00.604>a <00:11:00.805>creator <00:11:01.005>of <00:11:01.204>something.

310
00:11:02.125 --> 00:11:05.205
<00:11:02.125>I, <00:11:02.300>yes, <00:11:02.475>I <00:11:02.650>created <00:11:02.825>the <00:11:03.000>original <00:11:03.175>version <00:11:03.350>of <00:11:03.525>this,

311
00:11:05.505 --> 00:11:08.525
<00:11:05.505>but <00:11:05.632>a <00:11:05.759>lot <00:11:05.886>of <00:11:06.014>that <00:11:06.141>actually <00:11:06.268>had <00:11:06.395>been <00:11:06.523>me <00:11:06.650>curating <00:11:06.777>ideas <00:11:06.905>from

312
00:11:08.525 --> 00:11:10.725
<00:11:08.525>peers <00:11:08.699>and <00:11:08.875>sharing <00:11:09.050>and <00:11:09.225>swapping <00:11:09.400>ideas <00:11:09.574>over <00:11:09.750>the <00:11:09.925>internet

313
00:11:11.305 --> 00:11:14.005
<00:11:11.305>and <00:11:11.460>then <00:11:11.616>taking <00:11:11.771>that <00:11:11.927>and <00:11:12.082>sharing <00:11:12.238>it <00:11:12.393>with <00:11:12.549>the <00:11:12.704>world.

314
00:11:14.025 --> 00:11:16.005
<00:11:14.025>And <00:11:14.199>then <00:11:14.375>since <00:11:14.550>then, <00:11:14.725>inviting <00:11:14.900>developers <00:11:15.074>to <00:11:15.250>come <00:11:15.425>in

315
00:11:16.005 --> 00:11:17.965
<00:11:16.005>and <00:11:16.160>play <00:11:16.316>in <00:11:16.471>this <00:11:16.627>playground <00:11:16.782>and <00:11:16.938>like, <00:11:17.093>yeah, <00:11:17.249>add <00:11:17.405>new,

316
00:11:18.065 --> 00:11:20.805
<00:11:18.065>new <00:11:18.265>plugins <00:11:18.465>and <00:11:18.665>contribute <00:11:18.865>new <00:11:19.065>additions <00:11:19.265>to <00:11:19.465>them

317
00:11:20.825 --> 00:11:23.285
<00:11:20.825>and <00:11:21.025>let's <00:11:21.225>make <00:11:21.425>this <00:11:21.625>faster <00:11:21.825>and <00:11:22.025>optimize <00:11:22.225>it.

318
00:11:23.305 --> 00:11:24.965
<00:11:23.305>And <00:11:23.771>so <00:11:24.238>I've <00:11:24.704>done

319
00:11:25.105 --> 00:11:27.645
<00:11:25.105>so <00:11:25.305>little <00:11:25.505>actual <00:11:25.705>new <00:11:25.905>development <00:11:26.105>on <00:11:26.305>the <00:11:26.505>project.

320
00:11:27.835 --> 00:11:30.805
<00:11:27.835>Most <00:11:27.975>of <00:11:28.115>it <00:11:28.255>is <00:11:28.395>like <00:11:28.535>reviewing <00:11:28.675>other <00:11:28.815>people's <00:11:28.955>code, <00:11:29.095>saying <00:11:29.235>yes

321
00:11:30.805 --> 00:11:35.445
<00:11:30.805>or <00:11:30.979>no, <00:11:31.155>or <00:11:31.329>maybe <00:11:31.505>change <00:11:31.680>this, <00:11:31.854>maybe <00:11:32.030>refactoring <00:11:32.204>here

322
00:11:35.445 --> 00:11:37.765
<00:11:35.445>and <00:11:35.620>there, <00:11:35.795>but, <00:11:35.970>or <00:11:36.145>just <00:11:36.320>relying <00:11:36.495>on <00:11:36.670>the <00:11:36.845>other,

323
00:11:37.765 --> 00:11:39.405
<00:11:37.765>my <00:11:37.998>other <00:11:38.231>maintainers <00:11:38.465>on <00:11:38.698>the <00:11:38.931>project, <00:11:39.165>uh,

324
00:11:39.745 --> 00:11:41.045
<00:11:39.745>let <00:11:39.891>them <00:11:40.037>do <00:11:40.183>some <00:11:40.329>of <00:11:40.476>that <00:11:40.622>stuff <00:11:40.768>as <00:11:40.915>well.

325
00:11:41.185 --> 00:11:44.165
<00:11:41.185>So <00:11:41.359>that <00:11:41.535>that's <00:11:41.709>how, <00:11:41.885>that's <00:11:42.060>why <00:11:42.234>it's <00:11:42.410>community <00:11:42.584>driven

326
00:11:44.325 --> 00:11:46.885
<00:11:44.325>'cause <00:11:44.480>it's, <00:11:44.636>it <00:11:44.791>honestly <00:11:44.947>has <00:11:45.102>been <00:11:45.258>produced <00:11:45.413>by <00:11:45.569>the <00:11:45.725>community

327
00:11:47.225 --> 00:11:50.525
<00:11:47.225>and <00:11:47.400>maybe <00:11:47.575>that's <00:11:47.750>part <00:11:47.925>of <00:11:48.100>its <00:11:48.275>success <00:11:48.450>as <00:11:48.625>well.

328
00:11:51.105 --> 00:11:52.245
<00:11:51.105>And <00:11:51.310>you <00:11:51.515>never <00:11:51.720>regret, <00:11:51.925>you <00:11:52.131>know,

329
00:11:52.245 --> 00:11:53.685
<00:11:52.245>making <00:11:52.430>it <00:11:52.615>open <00:11:52.800>source <00:11:52.985>and <00:11:53.170>handing <00:11:53.355>it <00:11:53.540>over.

330
00:11:53.805 --> 00:11:56.005
<00:11:53.805>'cause <00:11:53.979>it's <00:11:54.155>always <00:11:54.329>that, <00:11:54.505>that <00:11:54.680>thing <00:11:54.854>of, <00:11:55.030>it's <00:11:55.204>your,

331
00:11:56.005 --> 00:11:57.485
<00:11:56.005>it's <00:11:56.227>your <00:11:56.449>own <00:11:56.671>pet <00:11:56.893>project, <00:11:57.115>you <00:11:57.337>know,

332
00:11:57.485 --> 00:11:59.325
<00:11:57.485>when <00:11:57.660>you <00:11:57.835>create <00:11:58.010>something <00:11:58.185>and <00:11:58.360>it's <00:11:58.535>then <00:11:58.710>quite <00:11:58.885>difficult

333
00:11:59.325 --> 00:12:00.725
<00:11:59.325>to <00:11:59.505>hand <00:11:59.685>that <00:11:59.865>control <00:12:00.045>over <00:12:00.225>to <00:12:00.405>other <00:12:00.585>people,

334
00:12:00.725 --> 00:12:03.725
<00:12:00.725>especially <00:12:00.880>when <00:12:01.036>it's <00:12:01.191>a, <00:12:01.347>um, <00:12:01.502>a <00:12:01.658>community <00:12:01.813>without <00:12:01.969>a <00:12:02.125>head,

335
00:12:03.725 --> 00:12:04.725
<00:12:03.725>if <00:12:03.837>you <00:12:03.950>know <00:12:04.062>what <00:12:04.175>I <00:12:04.287>mean, <00:12:04.400>in, <00:12:04.512>in <00:12:04.625>the

336
00:12:04.725 --> 00:12:05.605
<00:12:04.725>fact <00:12:04.923>that <00:12:05.121>it's <00:12:05.319>open <00:12:05.517>source.

337
00:12:05.625 --> 00:12:07.085
<00:12:05.625>Do <00:12:05.771>you <00:12:05.917>ever, <00:12:06.063>do <00:12:06.209>you <00:12:06.355>ever <00:12:06.501>regret <00:12:06.647>making <00:12:06.793>open <00:12:06.939>source?

338
00:12:07.385 --> 00:12:10.325
<00:12:07.385>No. <00:12:07.501>Uh, <00:12:07.618>I <00:12:07.735>didn't <00:12:07.851>feel <00:12:07.968>like <00:12:08.085>it <00:12:08.201>was <00:12:08.318>mine <00:12:08.435>in <00:12:08.551>the <00:12:08.668>first <00:12:08.785>place.

339
00:12:10.905 --> 00:12:13.085
<00:12:10.905>So <00:12:11.079>I <00:12:11.255>think <00:12:11.430>so <00:12:11.605>many <00:12:11.780>of <00:12:11.954>the, <00:12:12.130>those <00:12:12.305>ideas

340
00:12:13.085 --> 00:12:15.005
<00:12:13.085>where <00:12:13.365>we're <00:12:13.645>sharing <00:12:13.925>over <00:12:14.205>IRC <00:12:14.485>channels,

341
00:12:15.915 --> 00:12:18.125
<00:12:15.915>code <00:12:16.115>snippet <00:12:16.314>sharing <00:12:16.515>sites <00:12:16.714>back <00:12:16.915>then, <00:12:17.115>like <00:12:17.314>pasty,

342
00:12:18.125 --> 00:12:19.965
<00:12:18.125>which <00:12:18.265>was <00:12:18.405>like, <00:12:18.545>I <00:12:18.685>don't <00:12:18.825>know <00:12:18.965>if <00:12:19.105>pasty <00:12:19.245>is <00:12:19.385>still <00:12:19.525>around,

343
00:12:19.985 --> 00:12:21.245
<00:12:19.985>but <00:12:20.174>it <00:12:20.363>was <00:12:20.552>like <00:12:20.741>a <00:12:20.930>website <00:12:21.119>thing,

344
00:12:21.245 --> 00:12:22.685
<00:12:21.245>like <00:12:21.430>kinda <00:12:21.615>like <00:12:21.800>what <00:12:21.985>a <00:12:22.170>GitHub <00:12:22.355>gist <00:12:22.540>is.

345
00:12:22.685 --> 00:12:24.165
<00:12:22.685>We <00:12:23.017>would <00:12:23.351>share <00:12:23.684>configuration <00:12:24.016>things.

346
00:12:24.465 --> 00:12:25.765
<00:12:24.465>So <00:12:24.660>I <00:12:24.855>was <00:12:25.050>just <00:12:25.245>copy <00:12:25.440>and <00:12:25.635>pasting

347
00:12:25.765 --> 00:12:27.125
<00:12:25.765>and <00:12:26.071>modifying <00:12:26.377>things <00:12:26.683>to <00:12:26.989>figure

348
00:12:27.125 --> 00:12:28.205
<00:12:27.125>out <00:12:27.287>how <00:12:27.449>to <00:12:27.611>do <00:12:27.773>things <00:12:27.935>in <00:12:28.097>there.

349
00:12:28.265 --> 00:12:30.285
<00:12:28.265>So <00:12:28.439>I <00:12:28.615>didn't <00:12:28.790>really <00:12:28.965>feel <00:12:29.140>like <00:12:29.314>it <00:12:29.490>was <00:12:29.665>mine.

350
00:12:30.285 --> 00:12:31.765
<00:12:30.285>And, <00:12:30.507>and <00:12:30.728>admittedly <00:12:30.951>it <00:12:31.173>was <00:12:31.395>just <00:12:31.617>like,

351
00:12:31.765 --> 00:12:32.965
<00:12:31.765>I <00:12:31.919>just <00:12:32.073>want <00:12:32.227>my <00:12:32.382>coworkers <00:12:32.536>to <00:12:32.690>use <00:12:32.845>this

352
00:12:32.965 --> 00:12:35.285
<00:12:32.965>and <00:12:33.092>kind <00:12:33.219>of <00:12:33.346>wanted <00:12:33.474>to <00:12:33.601>show <00:12:33.728>up <00:12:33.855>with <00:12:33.983>my <00:12:34.110>peers, <00:12:34.237>like, <00:12:34.365>hey,

353
00:12:35.285 --> 00:12:36.565
<00:12:35.285>maybe <00:12:35.449>they'll <00:12:35.614>want <00:12:35.778>to <00:12:35.943>use <00:12:36.107>this <00:12:36.272>as <00:12:36.437>well.

354
00:12:36.745 --> 00:12:39.005
<00:12:36.745>So, <00:12:36.900>'cause <00:12:37.056>they <00:12:37.211>were <00:12:37.367>sharing <00:12:37.522>their <00:12:37.678>thing, <00:12:37.833>it <00:12:37.989>was <00:12:38.145>just,

355
00:12:39.005 --> 00:12:41.165
<00:12:39.005>we <00:12:39.160>were <00:12:39.316>all <00:12:39.471>just <00:12:39.627>sharing <00:12:39.782>what <00:12:39.938>we <00:12:40.093>were <00:12:40.249>working <00:12:40.405>on

356
00:12:41.165 --> 00:12:42.365
<00:12:41.165>and <00:12:41.435>it <00:12:41.704>didn't <00:12:41.975>feel <00:12:42.245>proprietary.

357
00:12:42.365 --> 00:12:44.285
<00:12:42.365>There's <00:12:42.645>no, <00:12:42.925>I <00:12:43.205>never <00:12:43.485>thought <00:12:43.765>that.

358
00:12:44.345 --> 00:12:46.005
<00:12:44.345>I'm <00:12:44.500>like, <00:12:44.656>there <00:12:44.811>wasn't <00:12:44.967>even <00:12:45.122>the <00:12:45.278>idea <00:12:45.433>that <00:12:45.589>like, <00:12:45.745>oh,

359
00:12:46.005 --> 00:12:47.165
<00:12:46.005>this <00:12:46.213>could <00:12:46.422>make <00:12:46.631>money <00:12:46.840>or <00:12:47.049>something.

360
00:12:47.265 --> 00:12:49.805
<00:12:47.265>It <00:12:47.420>was <00:12:47.576>like, <00:12:47.731>not <00:12:47.887>that <00:12:48.042>that <00:12:48.198>was <00:12:48.353>the <00:12:48.509>other <00:12:48.665>angle

361
00:12:49.825 --> 00:12:51.125
<00:12:49.825>or <00:12:50.215>not, <00:12:50.605>but <00:12:50.995>yeah.

362
00:12:51.945 --> 00:12:53.205
<00:12:51.945>And <00:12:52.107>would <00:12:52.269>you <00:12:52.431>say, <00:12:52.593>do, <00:12:52.755>do <00:12:52.917>you <00:12:53.079>think

363
00:12:53.205 --> 00:12:55.205
<00:12:53.205>that <00:12:53.405>developer <00:12:53.605>experience <00:12:53.805>was <00:12:54.005>actually <00:12:54.205>on <00:12:54.405>your <00:12:54.605>mind

364
00:12:55.205 --> 00:12:56.325
<00:12:55.205>when <00:12:55.406>you <00:12:55.608>first <00:12:55.809>started <00:12:56.011>creating <00:12:56.213>it?

365
00:12:56.325 --> 00:12:57.965
<00:12:56.325>Because <00:12:56.558>we, <00:12:56.791>we <00:12:57.025>use <00:12:57.258>the <00:12:57.491>term <00:12:57.725>now

366
00:12:58.025 --> 00:13:00.125
<00:12:58.025>and <00:12:58.225>it's, <00:12:58.425>you <00:12:58.625>know, <00:12:58.824>a <00:12:59.025>more <00:12:59.225>solidified, <00:12:59.425>more

367
00:13:00.125 --> 00:13:01.285
<00:13:00.125>of <00:13:00.333>a <00:13:00.542>solidified <00:13:00.751>meaning, <00:13:00.960>you <00:13:01.169>know,

368
00:13:01.285 --> 00:13:03.005
<00:13:01.285>we <00:13:01.459>all <00:13:01.635>understand <00:13:01.810>in <00:13:01.985>our <00:13:02.160>own <00:13:02.334>way, <00:13:02.510>I <00:13:02.685>suppose

369
00:13:03.005 --> 00:13:04.005
<00:13:03.005>what <00:13:03.305>developer <00:13:03.605>experience <00:13:03.905>means.

370
00:13:04.345 --> 00:13:07.005
<00:13:04.345>Um, <00:13:04.500>was <00:13:04.656>that, <00:13:04.811>was <00:13:04.967>that <00:13:05.122>sort <00:13:05.278>of <00:13:05.433>your, <00:13:05.589>your <00:13:05.745>intention

371
00:13:07.145 --> 00:13:09.365
<00:13:07.145>to <00:13:07.425>improve <00:13:07.704>the <00:13:07.985>developer <00:13:08.265>experience <00:13:08.545>when

372
00:13:09.365 --> 00:13:10.445
<00:13:09.365>you, <00:13:09.559>when <00:13:09.753>you <00:13:09.948>first <00:13:10.142>created <00:13:10.337>it?

373
00:13:11.225 --> 00:13:13.365
<00:13:11.225>My, <00:13:11.505>my <00:13:11.785>developer <00:13:12.065>experience <00:13:12.345>of <00:13:12.625>pairing

374
00:13:13.365 --> 00:13:14.565
<00:13:13.365>with <00:13:13.581>my <00:13:13.797>coworkers <00:13:14.013>on <00:13:14.229>their <00:13:14.445>computer.

375
00:13:14.595 --> 00:13:17.125
<00:13:14.595>Yeah. <00:13:14.750>Uh, <00:13:14.906>if <00:13:15.061>we <00:13:15.217>were <00:13:15.372>all <00:13:15.528>kind <00:13:15.683>of <00:13:15.839>like <00:13:15.995>sharing,

376
00:13:17.125 --> 00:13:19.205
<00:13:17.125>have <00:13:17.358>like <00:13:17.591>a <00:13:17.825>shared <00:13:18.058>set <00:13:18.291>of <00:13:18.525>tools

377
00:13:19.235 --> 00:13:20.525
<00:13:19.235>that <00:13:19.467>just <00:13:19.699>made <00:13:19.931>our <00:13:20.163>life <00:13:20.396>easier.

378
00:13:20.905 --> 00:13:22.685
<00:13:20.905>If <00:13:21.105>you're <00:13:21.305>pairing <00:13:21.505>with <00:13:21.704>your <00:13:21.905>coworker, <00:13:22.105>I <00:13:22.305>mean,

379
00:13:22.685 --> 00:13:24.565
<00:13:22.685>we're <00:13:22.840>working <00:13:22.996>on <00:13:23.151>a <00:13:23.307>piece <00:13:23.462>of <00:13:23.618>software <00:13:23.773>with <00:13:23.929>your <00:13:24.084>coworkers,

380
00:13:24.565 --> 00:13:26.325
<00:13:24.565>you're <00:13:24.720>all <00:13:24.876>agree, <00:13:25.031>like <00:13:25.187>we're <00:13:25.342>working <00:13:25.498>on <00:13:25.653>the <00:13:25.809>same <00:13:25.965>framework,

381
00:13:26.325 --> 00:13:28.165
<00:13:26.325>we're <00:13:26.525>all <00:13:26.725>gonna <00:13:26.925>have <00:13:27.125>like <00:13:27.325>a <00:13:27.525>certain <00:13:27.725>style

382
00:13:28.185 --> 00:13:29.325
<00:13:28.185>how <00:13:28.390>we <00:13:28.595>approach <00:13:28.800>our <00:13:29.005>code <00:13:29.211>base.

383
00:13:30.315 --> 00:13:32.645
<00:13:30.315>Some <00:13:30.470>of <00:13:30.626>the <00:13:30.781>tool <00:13:30.937>stuff <00:13:31.092>should <00:13:31.248>be <00:13:31.403>consistent <00:13:31.559>as <00:13:31.715>well.

384
00:13:33.025 --> 00:13:34.885
<00:13:33.025>If <00:13:33.305>you're <00:13:33.584>regularly <00:13:33.865>pairing <00:13:34.145>people <00:13:34.425>talk

385
00:13:34.885 --> 00:13:36.045
<00:13:34.885>about <00:13:35.146>your <00:13:35.406>preferences <00:13:35.668>and <00:13:35.929>stuff.

386
00:13:36.065 --> 00:13:39.525
<00:13:36.065>But <00:13:36.205>if <00:13:36.345>you <00:13:36.485>have <00:13:36.625>documentation <00:13:36.765>that's <00:13:36.905>like <00:13:37.045>only <00:13:37.185>works <00:13:37.325>for <00:13:37.465>80%

387
00:13:39.525 --> 00:13:41.325
<00:13:39.525>of <00:13:39.665>your <00:13:39.805>team <00:13:39.944>and <00:13:40.084>like <00:13:40.225>there's <00:13:40.365>a <00:13:40.505>two <00:13:40.645>outcast, <00:13:40.785>they're <00:13:40.925>like,

388
00:13:41.325 --> 00:13:43.885
<00:13:41.325>well <00:13:41.465>I <00:13:41.605>do <00:13:41.745>it <00:13:41.885>my <00:13:42.025>own <00:13:42.165>way, <00:13:42.305>then <00:13:42.445>like <00:13:42.585>that <00:13:42.725>kind

389
00:13:43.885 --> 00:13:46.045
<00:13:43.885>of <00:13:44.118>slows <00:13:44.351>down <00:13:44.585>your <00:13:44.818>overall <00:13:45.051>team <00:13:45.285>process.

390
00:13:46.265 --> 00:13:49.445
<00:13:46.265>So <00:13:46.465>the, <00:13:46.665>yes, <00:13:46.865>it <00:13:47.064>was <00:13:47.265>my <00:13:47.465>developer <00:13:47.665>experience,

391
00:13:49.445 --> 00:13:51.005
<00:13:49.445>but <00:13:49.645>I <00:13:49.845>also <00:13:50.045>thought <00:13:50.245>that <00:13:50.445>I <00:13:50.645>was <00:13:50.845>more

392
00:13:51.205 --> 00:13:52.325
<00:13:51.205>efficient <00:13:51.406>and <00:13:51.608>quicker <00:13:51.809>to <00:13:52.011>do <00:13:52.213>things.

393
00:13:52.345 --> 00:13:54.685
<00:13:52.345>And <00:13:52.500>I <00:13:52.656>thought <00:13:52.811>if <00:13:52.967>I <00:13:53.122>can <00:13:53.278>show <00:13:53.433>my <00:13:53.589>coworkers <00:13:53.745>how

394
00:13:54.685 --> 00:13:55.885
<00:13:54.685>to <00:13:54.865>take <00:13:55.045>advantage <00:13:55.224>some <00:13:55.405>of <00:13:55.585>these <00:13:55.765>things

395
00:13:55.945 --> 00:13:59.365
<00:13:55.945>and <00:13:56.100>just <00:13:56.256>not <00:13:56.411>rely <00:13:56.567>on <00:13:56.722>the <00:13:56.878>default <00:13:57.033>bash, <00:13:57.189>you <00:13:57.345>know,

396
00:14:00.085 --> 00:14:02.885
<00:14:00.085>configurations <00:14:00.240>they <00:14:00.396>had, <00:14:00.551>then <00:14:00.707>they <00:14:00.862>would <00:14:01.018>gain <00:14:01.173>a <00:14:01.329>little <00:14:01.485>bit

397
00:14:02.885 --> 00:14:04.485
<00:14:02.885>of <00:14:03.165>incremental <00:14:03.444>improvements <00:14:03.725>as <00:14:04.005>well <00:14:04.285>and,

398
00:14:04.505 --> 00:14:07.645
<00:14:04.505>and <00:14:04.645>they <00:14:04.785>would <00:14:04.925>feel <00:14:05.064>like <00:14:05.205>a <00:14:05.345>badass <00:14:05.485>as <00:14:05.625>well, <00:14:05.765>you <00:14:05.905>know?

399
00:14:07.645 --> 00:14:08.525
<00:14:07.645>And <00:14:07.803>so <00:14:07.961>I'm <00:14:08.120>like, <00:14:08.278>look <00:14:08.437>how

400
00:14:08.525 --> 00:14:09.565
<00:14:08.525>quick <00:14:08.658>we <00:14:08.792>can <00:14:08.926>do <00:14:09.059>some <00:14:09.193>of <00:14:09.327>this <00:14:09.461>stuff.

401
00:14:09.565 --> 00:14:11.805
<00:14:09.565>And <00:14:09.705>like, <00:14:09.845>I <00:14:09.985>don't <00:14:10.125>have <00:14:10.265>to <00:14:10.405>memorize <00:14:10.545>all <00:14:10.685>these <00:14:10.825>long <00:14:10.965>commands,

402
00:14:11.805 --> 00:14:12.845
<00:14:11.805>it <00:14:11.961>just <00:14:12.117>saves <00:14:12.273>a <00:14:12.429>bunch <00:14:12.585>of <00:14:12.741>time.

403
00:14:14.035 --> 00:14:15.885
<00:14:14.035>That <00:14:14.385>felt <00:14:14.735>like <00:14:15.084>an <00:14:15.435>optimization.

404
00:14:15.885 --> 00:14:17.925
<00:14:15.885>And <00:14:16.060>as <00:14:16.235>the <00:14:16.410>business <00:14:16.585>owner, <00:14:16.760>I <00:14:16.935>just <00:14:17.110>wanted, <00:14:17.285>like,

405
00:14:17.925 --> 00:14:20.165
<00:14:17.925>if <00:14:18.080>I'm <00:14:18.236>squeezing <00:14:18.391>out <00:14:18.547>just <00:14:18.702>a <00:14:18.858>couple <00:14:19.013>of <00:14:19.169>extra <00:14:19.324>savings,

406
00:14:20.235 --> 00:14:22.485
<00:14:20.235>some <00:14:20.468>keystrokes <00:14:20.701>also <00:14:20.935>deal <00:14:21.168>with <00:14:21.401>carpal <00:14:21.635>tunnel,

407
00:14:22.505 --> 00:14:23.845
<00:14:22.505>so <00:14:22.677>I <00:14:22.849>don't <00:14:23.021>wanna <00:14:23.194>type, <00:14:23.366>it <00:14:23.538>was <00:14:23.711>even

408
00:14:23.845 --> 00:14:25.565
<00:14:23.845>before <00:14:24.000>on <00:14:24.156>my <00:14:24.311>Z <00:14:24.467>show, <00:14:24.622>I <00:14:24.778>was <00:14:24.933>dealing <00:14:25.089>with <00:14:25.245>like

409
00:14:26.435 --> 00:14:28.725
<00:14:26.435>hand <00:14:26.574>cramp <00:14:26.714>pains <00:14:26.854>and <00:14:26.994>stuff <00:14:27.135>like <00:14:27.275>that <00:14:27.415>from <00:14:27.555>typing <00:14:27.694>so <00:14:27.834>much.

410
00:14:28.725 --> 00:14:30.965
<00:14:28.725>So <00:14:28.852>I <00:14:28.979>was <00:14:29.106>like, <00:14:29.234>whatever <00:14:29.361>I <00:14:29.488>could <00:14:29.615>do <00:14:29.743>to <00:14:29.870>like, <00:14:29.997>come <00:14:30.125>up

411
00:14:30.965 --> 00:14:32.685
<00:14:30.965>with <00:14:31.315>some <00:14:31.665>auto <00:14:32.015>complete <00:14:32.365>snippets

412
00:14:32.705 --> 00:14:35.525
<00:14:32.705>and <00:14:32.860>just <00:14:33.016>to <00:14:33.171>save <00:14:33.327>myself <00:14:33.482>some <00:14:33.638>keystrokes <00:14:33.793>was <00:14:33.949>like <00:14:34.105>a

413
00:14:35.525 --> 00:14:36.685
<00:14:35.525>win <00:14:35.872>from <00:14:36.221>my <00:14:36.569>hand.

414
00:14:36.865 --> 00:14:38.485
<00:14:36.865>So <00:14:37.098>I <00:14:37.331>thought <00:14:37.565>that <00:14:37.798>was <00:14:38.031>another <00:14:38.265>angle.

415
00:14:38.505 --> 00:14:42.125
<00:14:38.505>So <00:14:38.680>my <00:14:38.855>developer <00:14:39.030>experience, <00:14:39.205>my <00:14:39.380>quality <00:14:39.555>of <00:14:39.730>life <00:14:39.905>experience

416
00:14:42.125 --> 00:14:43.645
<00:14:42.125>and <00:14:42.277>I <00:14:42.429>just <00:14:42.581>wanted <00:14:42.733>to <00:14:42.885>share <00:14:43.037>that <00:14:43.189>with <00:14:43.341>other <00:14:43.492>people.

417
00:14:44.315 --> 00:14:45.805
<00:14:44.315>It's <00:14:44.506>an <00:14:44.698>interesting <00:14:44.889>point <00:14:45.081>'cause <00:14:45.272>I <00:14:45.464>think, <00:14:45.656>um,

418
00:14:46.115 --> 00:14:47.445
<00:14:46.115>it's <00:14:46.314>come <00:14:46.514>up <00:14:46.713>several <00:14:46.913>times, <00:14:47.112>you <00:14:47.312>know,

419
00:14:47.445 --> 00:14:49.925
<00:14:47.445>throughout <00:14:47.620>the <00:14:47.795>merge <00:14:47.970>really <00:14:48.145>where <00:14:48.320>we <00:14:48.495>talk <00:14:48.670>about, <00:14:48.845>uh,

420
00:14:50.235 --> 00:14:51.645
<00:14:50.235>it's <00:14:50.416>not <00:14:50.597>just <00:14:50.778>the <00:14:50.960>code <00:14:51.141>that's <00:14:51.322>being <00:14:51.504>written,

421
00:14:51.675 --> 00:14:52.565
<00:14:51.675>it's <00:14:51.835>actually <00:14:51.995>the <00:14:52.155>people <00:14:52.315>that <00:14:52.476>are

422
00:14:52.565 --> 00:14:53.485
<00:14:52.565>writing <00:14:52.772>it <00:14:52.979>that <00:14:53.186>that <00:14:53.393>matters.

423
00:14:53.625 --> 00:14:56.085
<00:14:53.625>So <00:14:53.780>that <00:14:53.936>developer <00:14:54.091>experience <00:14:54.247>does <00:14:54.402>extend <00:14:54.558>all <00:14:54.713>the <00:14:54.869>way <00:14:55.025>like

424
00:14:56.085 --> 00:14:58.485
<00:14:56.085>you're <00:14:56.260>saying <00:14:56.435>to <00:14:56.610>things <00:14:56.785>like, <00:14:56.960>you <00:14:57.135>know, <00:14:57.310>alleviating <00:14:57.485>some

425
00:14:58.485 --> 00:14:59.965
<00:14:58.485>of <00:14:58.675>the <00:14:58.865>issues <00:14:59.055>with, <00:14:59.246>with <00:14:59.436>typing <00:14:59.626>so <00:14:59.817>much.

426
00:15:00.025 --> 00:15:01.085
<00:15:00.025>So <00:15:00.263>it's <00:15:00.502>interesting <00:15:00.740>to <00:15:00.979>hear.

427
00:15:01.545 --> 00:15:03.645
<00:15:01.545>So <00:15:01.778>going <00:15:02.011>back <00:15:02.245>to <00:15:02.478>the <00:15:02.711>hidden <00:15:02.944>symbolism,

428
00:15:03.845 --> 00:15:05.165
<00:15:03.845>'cause <00:15:04.014>we're <00:15:04.184>gonna, <00:15:04.354>we're <00:15:04.523>gonna <00:15:04.693>actually <00:15:04.863>fast <00:15:05.033>forward

429
00:15:05.225 --> 00:15:06.605
<00:15:05.225>and <00:15:05.473>talk <00:15:05.721>about <00:15:05.970>Planet <00:15:06.218>Argonne <00:15:06.467>now,

430
00:15:06.745 --> 00:15:08.725
<00:15:06.745>and <00:15:07.025>I'm <00:15:07.305>curious <00:15:07.585>about <00:15:07.865>the <00:15:08.145>name

431
00:15:08.725 --> 00:15:10.005
<00:15:08.725>before <00:15:08.917>we <00:15:09.109>get <00:15:09.301>into <00:15:09.493>what <00:15:09.685>it <00:15:09.877>is.

432
00:15:10.015 --> 00:15:12.045
<00:15:10.015>Where, <00:15:10.215>where <00:15:10.415>does <00:15:10.615>the <00:15:10.814>name <00:15:11.015>come <00:15:11.215>from? <00:15:11.415>Ooh.

433
00:15:12.425 --> 00:15:16.685
<00:15:12.425>Um, <00:15:12.564>so <00:15:12.704>I <00:15:12.844>read <00:15:12.984>this <00:15:13.125>book <00:15:13.265>called <00:15:13.405>Still <00:15:13.545>Life <00:15:13.685>with <00:15:13.824>Woodpecker

434
00:15:17.275 --> 00:15:18.645
<00:15:17.275>when <00:15:17.451>I <00:15:17.627>was <00:15:17.803>a <00:15:17.979>teenager, <00:15:18.155>and <00:15:18.331>it's <00:15:18.508>written

435
00:15:18.645 --> 00:15:21.125
<00:15:18.645>by <00:15:18.800>an <00:15:18.956>author <00:15:19.111>in <00:15:19.267>the <00:15:19.422>United <00:15:19.578>States <00:15:19.733>called <00:15:19.889>Tom <00:15:20.045>Robbins.

436
00:15:21.665 --> 00:15:24.405
<00:15:21.665>Um, <00:15:22.015>and <00:15:22.365>this <00:15:22.714>particular <00:15:23.064>thing,

437
00:15:24.405 --> 00:15:26.685
<00:15:24.405>planet <00:15:24.560>Argon <00:15:24.716>was <00:15:24.871>a <00:15:25.027>fictional <00:15:25.182>place <00:15:25.338>where <00:15:25.493>redheads <00:15:25.649>came <00:15:25.805>from.

438
00:15:27.625 --> 00:15:30.405
<00:15:27.625>That's <00:15:27.858>it. <00:15:28.091>Wow. <00:15:28.325>So <00:15:28.558>there <00:15:28.791>you <00:15:29.025>go.

439
00:15:30.585 --> 00:15:32.325
<00:15:30.585>If <00:15:30.725>you <00:15:30.865>can <00:15:31.005>figure <00:15:31.145>out <00:15:31.285>why <00:15:31.425>that <00:15:31.565>might <00:15:31.705>be <00:15:31.845>then <00:15:31.985>there

440
00:15:32.325 --> 00:15:33.365
<00:15:32.325>you <00:15:32.793>go. <00:15:33.261>Um,

441
00:15:33.645 --> 00:15:36.045
<00:15:33.645>I <00:15:33.800>mean <00:15:33.956>there's <00:15:34.111>no <00:15:34.267>natural <00:15:34.422>segue <00:15:34.578>into <00:15:34.733>talking <00:15:34.889>about <00:15:35.045>the

442
00:15:36.045 --> 00:15:37.725
<00:15:36.045>actual, <00:15:36.278>um, <00:15:36.511>company <00:15:36.745>now, <00:15:36.978>is <00:15:37.211>there <00:15:37.444>really?

443
00:15:37.825 --> 00:15:39.405
<00:15:37.825>But, <00:15:38.025>um, <00:15:38.225>yeah, <00:15:38.425>love <00:15:38.625>the <00:15:38.825>name. <00:15:39.025>That's <00:15:39.225>great.

444
00:15:39.605 --> 00:15:41.565
<00:15:39.605>I <00:15:39.760>didn't, <00:15:39.916>and <00:15:40.071>I <00:15:40.227>also, <00:15:40.382>when <00:15:40.538>I <00:15:40.693>created <00:15:40.849>the <00:15:41.005>name

445
00:15:41.565 --> 00:15:43.605
<00:15:41.565>of <00:15:41.692>the <00:15:41.819>company, <00:15:41.946>I <00:15:42.074>never <00:15:42.201>foresaw <00:15:42.328>it <00:15:42.455>being <00:15:42.583>more <00:15:42.710>than <00:15:42.837>like <00:15:42.965>a

446
00:15:43.605 --> 00:15:45.325
<00:15:43.605>freelancing <00:15:43.955>consulting <00:15:44.305>business <00:15:44.655>for <00:15:45.005>myself.

447
00:15:45.325 --> 00:15:47.525
<00:15:45.325>So <00:15:45.525>I <00:15:45.725>didn't <00:15:45.925>really <00:15:46.125>think <00:15:46.325>about <00:15:46.525>the <00:15:46.725>ramifications

448
00:15:47.525 --> 00:15:51.565
<00:15:47.525>of <00:15:47.665>having <00:15:47.805>employees <00:15:47.944>ask <00:15:48.084>where <00:15:48.225>the <00:15:48.365>hell <00:15:48.505>the <00:15:48.645>name <00:15:48.785>come <00:15:48.925>from.

449
00:15:51.865 --> 00:15:54.085
<00:15:51.865>And <00:15:51.992>having <00:15:52.119>to <00:15:52.246>explain <00:15:52.374>it <00:15:52.501>came <00:15:52.628>from <00:15:52.755>this <00:15:52.883>weird <00:15:53.010>book <00:15:53.137>about <00:15:53.265>an

450
00:15:54.085 --> 00:15:59.005
<00:15:54.085>anarchist <00:15:54.260>and, <00:15:54.435>uh, <00:15:54.610>a <00:15:54.785>princess <00:15:54.960>that <00:15:55.135>we're <00:15:55.310>trying <00:15:55.485>to,

451
00:15:59.065 --> 00:16:03.525
<00:15:59.065>uh, <00:15:59.265>sabotage <00:15:59.465>a <00:15:59.665>some <00:15:59.865>anti <00:16:00.065>some <00:16:00.265>oil <00:16:00.465>convention.

452
00:16:03.575 --> 00:16:04.725
<00:16:03.575>There <00:16:03.920>you <00:16:04.265>go. <00:16:04.610>Wow.

453
00:16:04.725 --> 00:16:06.325
<00:16:04.725>It <00:16:04.925>was <00:16:05.125>like <00:16:05.325>a <00:16:05.525>climate <00:16:05.725>change <00:16:05.925>thing <00:16:06.125>in

454
00:16:06.325 --> 00:16:07.565
<00:16:06.325>the <00:16:06.697>nineties. <00:16:07.069>Anyways, <00:16:07.441>yeah,

455
00:16:07.965 --> 00:16:08.965
<00:16:07.965>I <00:16:08.115>like <00:16:08.265>it. <00:16:08.415>It's <00:16:08.565>got <00:16:08.715>a <00:16:08.865>backstory

456
00:16:08.965 --> 00:16:10.285
<00:16:08.965>a <00:16:09.113>bit <00:16:09.262>like <00:16:09.410>when <00:16:09.559>you <00:16:09.707>find <00:16:09.856>out, <00:16:10.004>you <00:16:10.153>know,

457
00:16:10.325 --> 00:16:12.205
<00:16:10.325>a <00:16:10.452>band <00:16:10.579>and <00:16:10.706>where, <00:16:10.834>where, <00:16:10.961>where <00:16:11.088>they <00:16:11.215>got <00:16:11.343>their <00:16:11.470>name <00:16:11.597>from, <00:16:11.725>so.

458
00:16:12.205 --> 00:16:14.965
<00:16:12.205>Sure. <00:16:12.332>Yeah. <00:16:12.459>I <00:16:12.586>like <00:16:12.714>it. <00:16:12.841>Um, <00:16:12.968>one <00:16:13.095>thing <00:16:13.223>I <00:16:13.350>did <00:16:13.477>notice, <00:16:13.605>so

459
00:16:14.965 --> 00:16:16.925
<00:16:14.965>to <00:16:15.165>give <00:16:15.365>people <00:16:15.565>some, <00:16:15.765>some <00:16:15.965>back, <00:16:16.165>uh, <00:16:16.365>background

460
00:16:16.925 --> 00:16:18.045
<00:16:16.925>and <00:16:17.093>backstory <00:16:17.261>to <00:16:17.429>this <00:16:17.597>a <00:16:17.765>little <00:16:17.933>bit.

461
00:16:18.065 --> 00:16:20.645
<00:16:18.065>So, <00:16:18.240>uh, <00:16:18.415>planet <00:16:18.590>Argon <00:16:18.765>being <00:16:18.940>your <00:16:19.115>software <00:16:19.290>consult, <00:16:19.465>uh,

462
00:16:20.645 --> 00:16:23.765
<00:16:20.645>consultancy <00:16:20.819>agency <00:16:20.995>and <00:16:21.170>focusing <00:16:21.345>on <00:16:21.520>Ruby <00:16:21.694>on <00:16:21.870>Rails <00:16:22.045>projects.

463
00:16:23.765 --> 00:16:26.445
<00:16:23.765>Yep. <00:16:23.920>Um, <00:16:24.076>one <00:16:24.231>thing <00:16:24.387>that <00:16:24.542>stuck <00:16:24.698>out, <00:16:24.853>stuck <00:16:25.009>out <00:16:25.165>really

464
00:16:26.445 --> 00:16:27.565
<00:16:26.445>and <00:16:26.589>jumped <00:16:26.733>out <00:16:26.877>at <00:16:27.021>me <00:16:27.165>on <00:16:27.309>the, <00:16:27.453>uh,

465
00:16:27.565 --> 00:16:29.805
<00:16:27.565>on <00:16:27.705>the <00:16:27.845>website <00:16:27.985>was <00:16:28.125>the <00:16:28.265>phrase, <00:16:28.405>um, <00:16:28.545>when <00:16:28.685>we're <00:16:28.825>not <00:16:28.965>afraid

466
00:16:29.805 --> 00:16:31.645
<00:16:29.805>to <00:16:30.005>get <00:16:30.204>our <00:16:30.405>hands <00:16:30.604>dirty, <00:16:30.805>tackling <00:16:31.005>every <00:16:31.204>stage

467
00:16:31.645 --> 00:16:32.765
<00:16:31.645>of <00:16:31.981>the <00:16:32.317>development <00:16:32.653>lifecycle.

468
00:16:33.385 --> 00:16:35.965
<00:16:33.385>And <00:16:33.540>it <00:16:33.696>was <00:16:33.851>the <00:16:34.007>phrase, <00:16:34.162>um, <00:16:34.318>getting <00:16:34.473>our <00:16:34.629>hands <00:16:34.785>dirty.

469
00:16:36.625 --> 00:16:37.885
<00:16:36.625>Um, <00:16:37.192>because <00:16:37.759>I

470
00:16:37.885 --> 00:16:39.045
<00:16:37.885>suppose <00:16:38.015>you <00:16:38.146>could <00:16:38.276>look <00:16:38.406>at <00:16:38.537>this <00:16:38.668>two <00:16:38.798>ways, <00:16:38.929>right?

471
00:16:39.505 --> 00:16:41.845
<00:16:39.505>On, <00:16:39.621>on <00:16:39.738>the <00:16:39.855>one <00:16:39.971>side <00:16:40.088>you've <00:16:40.205>got, <00:16:40.321>you <00:16:40.438>know, <00:16:40.555>is, <00:16:40.671>is <00:16:40.788>it <00:16:40.905>just

472
00:16:41.845 --> 00:16:44.445
<00:16:41.845>that <00:16:42.020>Ruby <00:16:42.195>on <00:16:42.370>Rails <00:16:42.545>projects <00:16:42.720>are <00:16:42.895>difficult <00:16:43.070>to <00:16:43.245>maintain

473
00:16:44.465 --> 00:16:45.805
<00:16:44.465>so <00:16:44.615>you <00:16:44.766>go <00:16:44.917>in <00:16:45.068>and <00:16:45.218>do <00:16:45.369>the <00:16:45.520>dirty <00:16:45.670>work?

474
00:16:46.385 --> 00:16:49.885
<00:16:46.385>Um, <00:16:46.585>or <00:16:46.785>is <00:16:46.985>it <00:16:47.185>something <00:16:47.385>that <00:16:47.585>you <00:16:47.785>try

475
00:16:49.885 --> 00:16:52.725
<00:16:49.885>and <00:16:50.025>take <00:16:50.165>away <00:16:50.305>some <00:16:50.444>of <00:16:50.585>the <00:16:50.725>work <00:16:50.865>that <00:16:51.005>distracts <00:16:51.145>from <00:16:51.285>their,

476
00:16:52.725 --> 00:16:53.925
<00:16:52.725>their, <00:16:53.085>their <00:16:53.444>core <00:16:53.805>job?

477
00:16:54.305 --> 00:16:55.925
<00:16:54.305>Um, <00:16:54.460>what <00:16:54.616>would <00:16:54.771>you <00:16:54.927>say <00:16:55.082>your <00:16:55.238>kind <00:16:55.393>of <00:16:55.549>mission <00:16:55.704>is?

478
00:16:57.355 --> 00:16:58.765
<00:16:57.355>Mission <00:16:57.608>is <00:16:57.862>like <00:16:58.116>a <00:16:58.370>big <00:16:58.624>one.

479
00:16:58.765 --> 00:17:02.405
<00:16:58.765>Uh, <00:16:58.965>my, <00:16:59.165>my <00:16:59.365>mission <00:16:59.564>is <00:16:59.765>to <00:16:59.965>help <00:17:00.165>organizations

480
00:17:03.825 --> 00:17:06.205
<00:17:03.825>combat <00:17:04.291>the, <00:17:04.758>this <00:17:05.225>notion

481
00:17:06.205 --> 00:17:08.365
<00:17:06.204>that <00:17:06.360>a <00:17:06.516>big <00:17:06.671>rewrite <00:17:06.827>is <00:17:06.982>gonna <00:17:07.138>solve <00:17:07.293>all <00:17:07.449>their <00:17:07.605>problems.

482
00:17:09.105 --> 00:17:12.005
<00:17:09.105>And <00:17:09.245>so <00:17:09.385>a <00:17:09.525>lot <00:17:09.665>of <00:17:09.805>organizations <00:17:09.944>have <00:17:10.085>a <00:17:10.224>lot <00:17:10.365>of <00:17:10.505>turnover.

483
00:17:12.995 --> 00:17:15.645
<00:17:12.994>They <00:17:13.169>hire <00:17:13.344>people <00:17:13.520>that <00:17:13.694>have <00:17:13.869>varying <00:17:14.044>levels <00:17:14.219>of <00:17:14.395>skills

484
00:17:15.705 --> 00:17:16.885
<00:17:15.704>and <00:17:15.881>they <00:17:16.059>make <00:17:16.235>a <00:17:16.413>lot <00:17:16.589>of <00:17:16.767>pivots.

485
00:17:16.905 --> 00:17:18.965
<00:17:16.905>And <00:17:17.045>like <00:17:17.185>we <00:17:17.325>hear <00:17:17.464>a <00:17:17.605>lot <00:17:17.744>about <00:17:17.885>pivots <00:17:18.024>at <00:17:18.165>the <00:17:18.305>conversation

486
00:17:19.025 --> 00:17:20.765
<00:17:19.025>and <00:17:19.165>then <00:17:19.305>you <00:17:19.445>end <00:17:19.585>up <00:17:19.725>with <00:17:19.865>a <00:17:20.005>lot <00:17:20.145>of <00:17:20.285>technical <00:17:20.425>debt

487
00:17:20.785 --> 00:17:22.405
<00:17:20.785>and <00:17:20.940>a <00:17:21.096>lot <00:17:21.251>of <00:17:21.407>things <00:17:21.562>that <00:17:21.718>are <00:17:21.873>difficult <00:17:22.029>to <00:17:22.185>maintain.

488
00:17:22.425 --> 00:17:24.885
<00:17:22.425>And <00:17:22.552>then <00:17:22.679>you <00:17:22.806>don't, <00:17:22.934>you <00:17:23.061>don't <00:17:23.188>upgrade <00:17:23.315>things <00:17:23.443>for <00:17:23.570>a <00:17:23.697>long <00:17:23.825>time

489
00:17:24.905 --> 00:17:27.805
<00:17:24.905>and <00:17:25.045>you <00:17:25.185>have <00:17:25.325>developers <00:17:25.464>that <00:17:25.605>join <00:17:25.744>in <00:17:25.885>the <00:17:26.024>last <00:17:26.165>five <00:17:26.305>years.

490
00:17:27.805 --> 00:17:29.285
<00:17:27.805>They're <00:17:28.138>working <00:17:28.471>on <00:17:28.804>code <00:17:29.137>bases

491
00:17:29.285 --> 00:17:30.885
<00:17:29.285>that <00:17:29.518>were <00:17:29.751>started <00:17:29.985>12, <00:17:30.218>15 <00:17:30.451>years <00:17:30.685>ago.

492
00:17:30.885 --> 00:17:32.125
<00:17:30.885>And <00:17:31.108>they're <00:17:31.331>afraid <00:17:31.554>to <00:17:31.777>touch <00:17:32.001>things.

493
00:17:32.515 --> 00:17:34.845
<00:17:32.515>They <00:17:32.690>don't <00:17:32.865>wanna <00:17:33.040>break <00:17:33.215>things <00:17:33.390>off <00:17:33.565>of <00:17:33.740>old <00:17:33.915>patterns.

494
00:17:34.865 --> 00:17:37.005
<00:17:34.865>And <00:17:35.040>so <00:17:35.215>when <00:17:35.390>we <00:17:35.565>talk <00:17:35.740>about <00:17:35.915>like <00:17:36.090>coming <00:17:36.265>in

495
00:17:37.005 --> 00:17:38.845
<00:17:37.005>and, <00:17:37.160>you <00:17:37.316>know, <00:17:37.471>not <00:17:37.627>afraid <00:17:37.782>to <00:17:37.938>get <00:17:38.093>her <00:17:38.249>hands <00:17:38.405>dirty,

496
00:17:38.915 --> 00:17:41.125
<00:17:38.915>it's <00:17:39.090>more <00:17:39.264>like <00:17:39.440>we're <00:17:39.615>not <00:17:39.790>afraid <00:17:39.965>to <00:17:40.139>go <00:17:40.315>in

497
00:17:41.125 --> 00:17:43.725
<00:17:41.125>and <00:17:41.300>help <00:17:41.475>them <00:17:41.650>untangle <00:17:41.825>the <00:17:42.000>things <00:17:42.175>that <00:17:42.350>they're <00:17:42.525>afraid

498
00:17:43.725 --> 00:17:46.245
<00:17:43.725>to <00:17:44.004>break <00:17:44.284>and, <00:17:44.564>and <00:17:44.844>or, <00:17:45.125>and

499
00:17:46.245 --> 00:17:49.245
<00:17:46.245>or <00:17:46.385>to <00:17:46.524>help <00:17:46.665>advise <00:17:46.804>them <00:17:46.945>on <00:17:47.084>how <00:17:47.225>to <00:17:47.364>navigate <00:17:47.504>those <00:17:47.645>things

500
00:17:49.245 --> 00:17:51.045
<00:17:49.245>because <00:17:49.524>that <00:17:49.804>stuff <00:17:50.084>just <00:17:50.364>requires <00:17:50.645>enough

501
00:17:51.045 --> 00:17:52.405
<00:17:51.045>experience <00:17:51.453>to <00:17:51.861>feel <00:17:52.269>comfortable.

502
00:17:52.705 --> 00:17:54.525
<00:17:52.705>The <00:17:52.860>other <00:17:53.016>part <00:17:53.171>of <00:17:53.327>it <00:17:53.482>being <00:17:53.638>that <00:17:53.793>I <00:17:53.949>don't <00:17:54.105>tend

503
00:17:54.525 --> 00:17:55.685
<00:17:54.525>to <00:17:54.699>work <00:17:54.873>on <00:17:55.047>a <00:17:55.221>lot <00:17:55.395>of <00:17:55.569>projects

504
00:17:55.685 --> 00:17:57.205
<00:17:55.685>that <00:17:55.913>are <00:17:56.140>like <00:17:56.369>nude <00:17:56.597>to <00:17:56.824>app <00:17:57.053>development.

505
00:17:57.205 --> 00:17:58.845
<00:17:57.205>We <00:17:57.405>tend <00:17:57.605>to <00:17:57.804>come <00:17:58.004>in, <00:17:58.205>you <00:17:58.405>know, <00:17:58.605>seven,

506
00:17:58.945 --> 00:18:02.885
<00:17:58.945>10 <00:17:59.100>years <00:17:59.256>later <00:17:59.411>down <00:17:59.567>into <00:17:59.722>a <00:17:59.878>project <00:18:00.033>lifecycle <00:18:00.189>when, <00:18:00.345>uh,

507
00:18:02.905 --> 00:18:04.765
<00:18:02.905>an <00:18:03.371>organization <00:18:03.838>like <00:18:04.305>they've,

508
00:18:04.765 --> 00:18:06.085
<00:18:04.765>they've <00:18:05.002>found <00:18:05.240>their <00:18:05.477>product <00:18:05.715>market <00:18:05.953>fit,

509
00:18:06.085 --> 00:18:07.645
<00:18:06.085>they've <00:18:06.435>done <00:18:06.785>some <00:18:07.135>pivoting <00:18:07.485>and

510
00:18:08.755 --> 00:18:11.245
<00:18:08.755>because <00:18:09.035>startups <00:18:09.315>notoriously <00:18:09.595>just <00:18:09.875>go <00:18:10.155>business.

511
00:18:11.345 --> 00:18:13.845
<00:18:11.345>So <00:18:11.461>that's <00:18:11.578>not <00:18:11.695>a, <00:18:11.811>it's <00:18:11.928>not <00:18:12.045>been <00:18:12.161>an <00:18:12.278>easy <00:18:12.395>business <00:18:12.511>model <00:18:12.628>for <00:18:12.745>me

512
00:18:13.845 --> 00:18:16.005
<00:18:13.845>to <00:18:13.985>keep, <00:18:14.125>is <00:18:14.265>like <00:18:14.405>constantly <00:18:14.545>winning <00:18:14.685>a <00:18:14.825>lot <00:18:14.965>of <00:18:15.105>new <00:18:15.245>projects.

513
00:18:16.005 --> 00:18:18.405
<00:18:16.005>So <00:18:16.160>if <00:18:16.316>I <00:18:16.471>find <00:18:16.627>companies <00:18:16.782>that <00:18:16.938>survive <00:18:17.093>that <00:18:17.249>early <00:18:17.405>five,

514
00:18:18.405 --> 00:18:21.085
<00:18:18.405>seven <00:18:18.580>year <00:18:18.754>period, <00:18:18.930>they've <00:18:19.105>got <00:18:19.280>budgets, <00:18:19.455>they, <00:18:19.629>they <00:18:19.805>need

515
00:18:21.085 --> 00:18:22.925
<00:18:21.085>to <00:18:21.225>keep <00:18:21.365>the <00:18:21.505>thing <00:18:21.645>running <00:18:21.785>and <00:18:21.925>they, <00:18:22.065>they're <00:18:22.205>gonna <00:18:22.345>invest <00:18:22.485>in

516
00:18:22.925 --> 00:18:25.045
<00:18:22.925>making <00:18:23.080>things <00:18:23.236>more <00:18:23.391>improved <00:18:23.547>so <00:18:23.702>they <00:18:23.858>can <00:18:24.013>avoid <00:18:24.169>a <00:18:24.325>rewrite.

517
00:18:25.385 --> 00:18:29.445
<00:18:25.385>So <00:18:25.540>a <00:18:25.696>lot <00:18:25.851>of <00:18:26.007>developers <00:18:26.162>are <00:18:26.318>see <00:18:26.473>themselves <00:18:26.629>as, <00:18:26.785>uh,

518
00:18:29.795 --> 00:18:32.485
<00:18:29.795>they <00:18:29.970>like <00:18:30.145>creating <00:18:30.320>things, <00:18:30.495>working <00:18:30.670>on <00:18:30.845>new <00:18:31.020>shiny <00:18:31.195>technology.

519
00:18:33.765 --> 00:18:36.325
<00:18:33.765>I <00:18:34.045>like <00:18:34.325>improving <00:18:34.605>existing <00:18:34.885>technology <00:18:35.165>more

520
00:18:36.325 --> 00:18:37.445
<00:18:36.325>than <00:18:36.526>I <00:18:36.728>like <00:18:36.929>building <00:18:37.131>new <00:18:37.332>things.

521
00:18:37.505 --> 00:18:41.525
<00:18:37.505>And <00:18:37.632>so <00:18:37.759>that's <00:18:37.886>kind <00:18:38.014>of <00:18:38.141>become <00:18:38.268>my <00:18:38.395>passion <00:18:38.523>and <00:18:38.650>over <00:18:38.777>the <00:18:38.905>years

522
00:18:41.625 --> 00:18:43.885
<00:18:41.625>and <00:18:41.765>I <00:18:41.905>found <00:18:42.045>that, <00:18:42.185>that <00:18:42.325>I'm <00:18:42.465>just <00:18:42.605>really <00:18:42.745>good <00:18:42.885>at <00:18:43.025>debugging

523
00:18:43.885 --> 00:18:45.645
<00:18:43.885>things <00:18:44.085>and <00:18:44.285>I'm <00:18:44.485>really <00:18:44.685>good <00:18:44.885>at <00:18:45.085>improving <00:18:45.285>things

524
00:18:45.705 --> 00:18:47.165
<00:18:45.705>and <00:18:46.361>finding <00:18:47.019>10,

525
00:18:47.165 --> 00:18:50.365
<00:18:47.165>15% <00:18:47.365>incremental <00:18:47.565>improvements <00:18:47.764>on <00:18:47.965>code <00:18:48.165>bases <00:18:48.365>versus <00:18:48.565>like,

526
00:18:50.365 --> 00:18:51.765
<00:18:50.365>let's <00:18:50.617>build <00:18:50.869>this <00:18:51.121>brand <00:18:51.373>new <00:18:51.625>thing

527
00:18:51.765 --> 00:18:53.165
<00:18:51.765>and <00:18:51.945>it's <00:18:52.125>gonna <00:18:52.305>solve <00:18:52.485>all <00:18:52.665>of <00:18:52.845>our <00:18:53.025>problems.

528
00:18:53.665 --> 00:18:56.845
<00:18:53.665>Yet <00:18:53.792>the <00:18:53.919>team <00:18:54.046>hasn't <00:18:54.174>figured <00:18:54.301>out <00:18:54.428>how <00:18:54.555>to <00:18:54.683>just <00:18:54.810>take <00:18:54.937>care <00:18:55.065>of,

529
00:18:56.845 --> 00:18:59.925
<00:18:56.845>you <00:18:57.045>know, <00:18:57.245>regular <00:18:57.445>maintenance <00:18:57.645>and <00:18:57.845>upkeep <00:18:58.045>and, <00:18:58.245>and,

530
00:18:59.945 --> 00:19:01.445
<00:18:59.945>and <00:19:00.620>deprecating <00:19:01.294>things

531
00:19:01.625 --> 00:19:03.885
<00:19:01.625>and <00:19:01.780>like <00:19:01.936>how <00:19:02.091>to <00:19:02.247>like <00:19:02.402>gently <00:19:02.558>go <00:19:02.713>about <00:19:02.869>doing <00:19:03.025>that.

532
00:19:03.905 --> 00:19:05.605
<00:19:03.905>And, <00:19:04.105>and <00:19:04.305>the <00:19:04.504>other <00:19:04.705>problem <00:19:04.905>that <00:19:05.105>a <00:19:05.305>lot

533
00:19:05.605 --> 00:19:07.685
<00:19:05.605>of <00:19:05.838>organizations <00:19:06.071>have <00:19:06.305>is <00:19:06.538>there's <00:19:06.771>a <00:19:07.005>lot

534
00:19:07.685 --> 00:19:09.365
<00:19:07.685>of <00:19:07.885>developers <00:19:08.085>out <00:19:08.284>there <00:19:08.485>that <00:19:08.685>are <00:19:08.885>feel <00:19:09.085>frustrated

535
00:19:09.365 --> 00:19:11.085
<00:19:09.365>because <00:19:09.565>they're <00:19:09.765>not <00:19:09.965>using <00:19:10.165>the <00:19:10.365>latest <00:19:10.565>and <00:19:10.765>greatest

536
00:19:11.665 --> 00:19:13.725
<00:19:11.665>and <00:19:11.865>I <00:19:12.065>I <00:19:12.264>app, <00:19:12.465>I <00:19:12.665>completely <00:19:12.865>appreciate <00:19:13.065>that,

537
00:19:13.745 --> 00:19:14.765
<00:19:13.745>but <00:19:13.898>they <00:19:14.051>don't <00:19:14.204>know <00:19:14.357>how <00:19:14.510>to <00:19:14.663>like,

538
00:19:15.345 --> 00:19:16.925
<00:19:15.345>get <00:19:15.695>things <00:19:16.045>updated <00:19:16.395>to <00:19:16.745>something.

539
00:19:16.925 --> 00:19:19.485
<00:19:16.925>And <00:19:17.065>so <00:19:17.205>that's <00:19:17.345>like <00:19:17.485>the <00:19:17.625>really <00:19:17.764>hard <00:19:17.905>thing <00:19:18.044>about <00:19:18.185>our <00:19:18.325>job.

540
00:19:20.305 --> 00:19:21.645
<00:19:20.305>And <00:19:20.546>so <00:19:20.787>I, <00:19:21.028>I'm <00:19:21.269>just <00:19:21.511>trying

541
00:19:21.645 --> 00:19:24.845
<00:19:21.645>to <00:19:21.785>like <00:19:21.925>speak <00:19:22.065>a <00:19:22.205>little <00:19:22.345>bit <00:19:22.485>more <00:19:22.625>about <00:19:22.764>how <00:19:22.905>that's, <00:19:23.045>that's,

542
00:19:24.845 --> 00:19:28.485
<00:19:24.845>that's <00:19:25.000>an <00:19:25.156>important <00:19:25.311>skill <00:19:25.467>to <00:19:25.622>develop <00:19:25.778>and <00:19:25.933>it <00:19:26.089>takes <00:19:26.245>experience

543
00:19:28.485 --> 00:19:29.525
<00:19:28.485>and <00:19:28.618>stuff <00:19:28.752>to <00:19:28.886>be <00:19:29.019>able <00:19:29.153>to <00:19:29.287>do <00:19:29.421>that.

544
00:19:29.605 --> 00:19:30.725
<00:19:29.605>'cause <00:19:29.731>they <00:19:29.857>don't <00:19:29.983>teach <00:19:30.109>you <00:19:30.235>how <00:19:30.360>to <00:19:30.486>take <00:19:30.612>care

545
00:19:30.725 --> 00:19:33.285
<00:19:30.725>of <00:19:30.925>existing <00:19:31.125>apps <00:19:31.324>at <00:19:31.524>a <00:19:31.725>coding <00:19:31.925>school <00:19:32.125>necessarily.

546
00:19:33.435 --> 00:19:35.005
<00:19:33.435>Like <00:19:33.635>come <00:19:33.835>in, <00:19:34.034>do <00:19:34.235>a <00:19:34.435>pro <00:19:34.635>older <00:19:34.835>project

547
00:19:35.145 --> 00:19:38.725
<00:19:35.145>and <00:19:35.378>inherit <00:19:35.611>things <00:19:35.845>like <00:19:36.078>it's, <00:19:36.311>it's <00:19:36.545>skillset

548
00:19:38.755 --> 00:19:41.005
<00:19:38.755>that <00:19:38.930>I <00:19:39.105>have <00:19:39.280>in <00:19:39.455>my <00:19:39.630>team <00:19:39.805>is <00:19:39.980>built <00:19:40.155>up.

549
00:19:41.125 --> 00:19:42.125
<00:19:41.125>'cause <00:19:41.275>we <00:19:41.425>do <00:19:41.575>it <00:19:41.725>all <00:19:41.875>the <00:19:42.025>time.

550
00:19:43.105 --> 00:19:44.765
<00:19:43.105>It <00:19:43.280>feels <00:19:43.455>like <00:19:43.630>it's <00:19:43.805>quite <00:19:43.980>well <00:19:44.155>positioned <00:19:44.330>as <00:19:44.505>well.

551
00:19:44.965 --> 00:19:46.965
<00:19:44.965>'cause <00:19:45.120>you <00:19:45.276>know, <00:19:45.431>we, <00:19:45.587>we <00:19:45.742>speak <00:19:45.898>so <00:19:46.053>much <00:19:46.209>about <00:19:46.365>AI

552
00:19:46.965 --> 00:19:47.965
<00:19:46.965>and <00:19:47.145>I'm <00:19:47.324>sure <00:19:47.504>this <00:19:47.685>comes <00:19:47.865>up

553
00:19:47.965 --> 00:19:49.285
<00:19:47.965>and <00:19:48.113>we're, <00:19:48.262>we <00:19:48.410>feel <00:19:48.559>like <00:19:48.707>we're <00:19:48.856>only <00:19:49.004>ever <00:19:49.153>sort

554
00:19:49.285 --> 00:19:50.725
<00:19:49.285>of <00:19:49.470>one <00:19:49.655>sentence <00:19:49.840>away <00:19:50.025>from <00:19:50.210>talking <00:19:50.395>about <00:19:50.581>it

555
00:19:50.925 --> 00:19:52.045
<00:19:50.925>whenever <00:19:51.093>we <00:19:51.261>talk <00:19:51.429>about <00:19:51.597>anything <00:19:51.765>to <00:19:51.933>do

556
00:19:52.045 --> 00:19:53.245
<00:19:52.045>with <00:19:52.225>coding <00:19:52.405>or <00:19:52.585>development <00:19:52.764>at <00:19:52.945>the <00:19:53.125>moment.

557
00:19:53.665 --> 00:19:55.885
<00:19:53.665>Um, <00:19:53.820>but <00:19:53.976>it <00:19:54.131>feels <00:19:54.287>like <00:19:54.442>you're <00:19:54.598>running <00:19:54.753>quite <00:19:54.909>a <00:19:55.065>human

558
00:19:56.365 --> 00:19:57.525
<00:19:56.365>centric <00:19:56.887>service <00:19:57.409>really.

559
00:19:57.745 --> 00:19:59.765
<00:19:57.745>Do <00:19:57.919>you <00:19:58.094>find <00:19:58.270>that <00:19:58.445>it's <00:19:58.620>something <00:19:58.794>your <00:19:58.969>customers <00:19:59.145>are,

560
00:19:59.765 --> 00:20:01.245
<00:19:59.765>are <00:19:59.931>looking <00:20:00.098>for, <00:20:00.264>you <00:20:00.431>know, <00:20:00.597>that <00:20:00.764>they <00:20:00.930>don't <00:20:01.097>want

561
00:20:01.245 --> 00:20:03.725
<00:20:01.245>to <00:20:01.400>rely <00:20:01.556>on <00:20:01.711>this <00:20:01.867>AI <00:20:02.022>that <00:20:02.178>doesn't <00:20:02.333>understand <00:20:02.489>the <00:20:02.645>context

562
00:20:03.785 --> 00:20:05.605
<00:20:03.785>of <00:20:03.960>their <00:20:04.135>code <00:20:04.310>and <00:20:04.485>they <00:20:04.660>want <00:20:04.835>the <00:20:05.010>human <00:20:05.185>element?

563
00:20:05.625 --> 00:20:07.965
<00:20:05.625>Or <00:20:05.752>does <00:20:05.879>it, <00:20:06.006>does <00:20:06.134>it <00:20:06.261>not <00:20:06.388>really <00:20:06.515>come <00:20:06.643>into <00:20:06.770>the <00:20:06.897>equation? <00:20:07.025>I

564
00:20:07.965 --> 00:20:09.565
<00:20:07.965>Think, <00:20:08.165>I <00:20:08.365>think <00:20:08.564>a <00:20:08.764>lot <00:20:08.965>of <00:20:09.165>organizations <00:20:09.365>are

565
00:20:09.625 --> 00:20:10.805
<00:20:09.625>trying <00:20:09.890>to <00:20:10.156>figure <00:20:10.421>it <00:20:10.687>out.

566
00:20:11.425 --> 00:20:14.685
<00:20:11.425>The, <00:20:11.600>I <00:20:11.774>think <00:20:11.950>the <00:20:12.125>human <00:20:12.300>element <00:20:12.475>of <00:20:12.649>it, <00:20:12.825>um,

567
00:20:17.235 --> 00:20:19.925
<00:20:17.235>that <00:20:17.342>tends <00:20:17.450>to <00:20:17.558>be <00:20:17.665>more <00:20:17.773>of <00:20:17.881>like <00:20:17.988>a, <00:20:18.096>like <00:20:18.204>I <00:20:18.311>feel <00:20:18.419>like <00:20:18.527>a <00:20:18.635>lot

568
00:20:19.925 --> 00:20:21.245
<00:20:19.925>of <00:20:20.073>the <00:20:20.222>times <00:20:20.370>we <00:20:20.519>talk <00:20:20.667>with <00:20:20.815>companies, <00:20:20.964>they <00:20:21.112>have,

569
00:20:21.245 --> 00:20:22.485
<00:20:21.245>they <00:20:21.468>think <00:20:21.691>they <00:20:21.914>have <00:20:22.137>technical <00:20:22.360>problems,

570
00:20:22.485 --> 00:20:24.205
<00:20:22.485>they <00:20:22.764>got <00:20:23.044>people <00:20:23.324>problems, <00:20:23.604>they've <00:20:23.885>got

571
00:20:24.205 --> 00:20:25.245
<00:20:24.205>people <00:20:24.438>in <00:20:24.673>the <00:20:24.907>wrong <00:20:25.140>seats.

572
00:20:25.275 --> 00:20:27.485
<00:20:25.275>They <00:20:25.430>got <00:20:25.586>people <00:20:25.741>that <00:20:25.897>probably <00:20:26.052>should <00:20:26.208>have <00:20:26.363>left <00:20:26.519>years <00:20:26.675>ago

573
00:20:27.715 --> 00:20:30.165
<00:20:27.715>that <00:20:27.870>are <00:20:28.026>hoarding <00:20:28.181>certain <00:20:28.337>extra <00:20:28.492>sections <00:20:28.648>of <00:20:28.803>the <00:20:28.959>code <00:20:29.115>base,

574
00:20:30.745 --> 00:20:32.765
<00:20:30.745>um, <00:20:30.978>or <00:20:31.211>completely <00:20:31.445>or <00:20:31.678>they <00:20:31.911>feel <00:20:32.145>guilty

575
00:20:32.765 --> 00:20:34.845
<00:20:32.765>and <00:20:32.905>they <00:20:33.045>don't <00:20:33.185>wanna <00:20:33.325>leave, <00:20:33.465>is <00:20:33.605>another <00:20:33.745>problem <00:20:33.885>that <00:20:34.025>a <00:20:34.165>lot

576
00:20:34.845 --> 00:20:36.645
<00:20:34.845>of <00:20:35.078>organ <00:20:35.311>people <00:20:35.545>companies <00:20:35.778>are <00:20:36.011>just <00:20:36.245>like,

577
00:20:37.305 --> 00:20:39.165
<00:20:37.305>if <00:20:37.505>I <00:20:37.705>leave <00:20:37.905>my <00:20:38.105>company's <00:20:38.305>gonna <00:20:38.505>follow <00:20:38.705>up,

578
00:20:39.165 --> 00:20:40.165
<00:20:39.165>this <00:20:39.389>company's <00:20:39.615>gonna <00:20:39.840>fall <00:20:40.065>apart

579
00:20:40.165 --> 00:20:43.765
<00:20:40.165>because <00:20:40.264>I, <00:20:40.365>I <00:20:40.465>wish <00:20:40.565>I <00:20:40.665>had <00:20:40.764>had <00:20:40.865>more <00:20:40.965>time <00:20:41.065>to <00:20:41.165>do <00:20:41.264>X, <00:20:41.365>Y, <00:20:41.465>and <00:20:41.565>Z

580
00:20:43.765 --> 00:20:45.725
<00:20:43.765>and <00:20:43.965>add <00:20:44.165>documentation <00:20:44.365>or <00:20:44.565>testing <00:20:44.765>around <00:20:44.965>these <00:20:45.165>areas.

581
00:20:46.625 --> 00:20:49.125
<00:20:46.625>That's, <00:20:46.800>that's <00:20:46.975>a <00:20:47.150>challenge <00:20:47.325>for <00:20:47.500>a <00:20:47.675>lot <00:20:47.850>of <00:20:48.025>companies

582
00:20:49.125 --> 00:20:50.925
<00:20:49.125>and <00:20:49.280>a <00:20:49.436>lot <00:20:49.591>of <00:20:49.747>people <00:20:49.902>stick <00:20:50.058>around <00:20:50.213>at <00:20:50.369>their <00:20:50.525>job

583
00:20:50.925 --> 00:20:53.245
<00:20:50.925>because <00:20:51.065>they <00:20:51.205>just <00:20:51.345>feel <00:20:51.485>loyalty, <00:20:51.625>which <00:20:51.764>is <00:20:51.905>not <00:20:52.044>a <00:20:52.185>bad <00:20:52.325>thing,

584
00:20:53.265 --> 00:20:56.045
<00:20:53.265>but <00:20:53.392>it <00:20:53.519>also <00:20:53.646>makes <00:20:53.774>it <00:20:53.901>difficult <00:20:54.028>for <00:20:54.155>other <00:20:54.283>people <00:20:54.410>to <00:20:54.537>come <00:20:54.665>in

585
00:20:56.045 --> 00:20:57.365
<00:20:56.045>and <00:20:56.214>take <00:20:56.384>over <00:20:56.554>those <00:20:56.723>parts <00:20:56.893>of <00:20:57.063>the <00:20:57.233>project

586
00:20:57.365 --> 00:20:58.565
<00:20:57.365>that <00:20:57.581>might <00:20:57.797>make <00:20:58.013>their <00:20:58.229>life <00:20:58.445>easier.

587
00:20:59.625 --> 00:21:01.725
<00:20:59.625>So, <00:20:59.780>but <00:20:59.936>when, <00:21:00.091>you <00:21:00.247>know, <00:21:00.402>when <00:21:00.558>companies <00:21:00.713>are, <00:21:00.869>you <00:21:01.025>know,

588
00:21:01.725 --> 00:21:05.285
<00:21:01.725>you <00:21:01.925>talk <00:21:02.125>about <00:21:02.324>the <00:21:02.524>positioning <00:21:02.725>thing, <00:21:02.925>uh, <00:21:03.125>admittedly

589
00:21:06.165 --> 00:21:08.565
<00:21:06.165>I <00:21:06.340>wish <00:21:06.514>more <00:21:06.690>organizations <00:21:06.865>really <00:21:07.040>realize <00:21:07.215>they <00:21:07.389>needed <00:21:07.565>my,

590
00:21:08.625 --> 00:21:09.925
<00:21:08.625>my <00:21:08.917>help, <00:21:09.210>but <00:21:09.502>uh, <00:21:09.795>obviously

591
00:21:09.925 --> 00:21:11.965
<00:21:09.925>as <00:21:10.100>any <00:21:10.274>business <00:21:10.450>I <00:21:10.625>would <00:21:10.800>love <00:21:10.975>more, <00:21:11.149>you <00:21:11.325>know,

592
00:21:12.035 --> 00:21:13.045
<00:21:12.035>tell <00:21:12.262>your, <00:21:12.489>tell <00:21:12.716>your <00:21:12.944>friends.

593
00:21:13.585 --> 00:21:17.645
<00:21:13.585>Um, <00:21:13.725>but, <00:21:13.865>uh, <00:21:14.005>I <00:21:14.145>do <00:21:14.285>think <00:21:14.425>the, <00:21:14.565>uh, <00:21:14.705>there's <00:21:14.845>an <00:21:14.985>element

594
00:21:17.705 --> 00:21:19.565
<00:21:17.705>of <00:21:17.905>like <00:21:18.105>they <00:21:18.304>need <00:21:18.504>a <00:21:18.705>lot <00:21:18.905>more, <00:21:19.105>like,

595
00:21:20.265 --> 00:21:21.325
<00:21:20.265>not <00:21:20.503>don't <00:21:20.742>wanna <00:21:20.980>say <00:21:21.219>handholding,

596
00:21:21.325 --> 00:21:23.205
<00:21:21.325>but <00:21:21.525>a <00:21:21.725>little <00:21:21.925>bit <00:21:22.125>more <00:21:22.325>like <00:21:22.525>moral <00:21:22.725>support

597
00:21:23.385 --> 00:21:25.405
<00:21:23.385>and <00:21:23.618>like <00:21:23.851>conviction <00:21:24.085>to <00:21:24.318>be <00:21:24.551>like, <00:21:24.785>let's,

598
00:21:25.895 --> 00:21:27.245
<00:21:25.895>let's <00:21:26.300>help <00:21:26.705>make <00:21:27.110>decisions.

599
00:21:27.995 --> 00:21:29.965
<00:21:27.995>Like, <00:21:28.150>so <00:21:28.306>we <00:21:28.461>get <00:21:28.617>called <00:21:28.772>in <00:21:28.928>to <00:21:29.083>like <00:21:29.239>help <00:21:29.395>them

600
00:21:30.475 --> 00:21:31.845
<00:21:30.475>just <00:21:30.783>narrow <00:21:31.091>down <00:21:31.399>some <00:21:31.708>decisions

601
00:21:31.845 --> 00:21:32.405
<00:21:31.845>because <00:21:32.097>they're <00:21:32.349>being

602
00:21:32.405 --> 00:21:33.765
<00:21:32.405>indecisive <00:21:32.579>and <00:21:32.754>they <00:21:32.929>don't <00:21:33.104>know <00:21:33.279>where <00:21:33.454>to <00:21:33.629>start.

603
00:21:33.985 --> 00:21:36.485
<00:21:33.985>Mm-Hmm. <00:21:34.185>And, <00:21:34.385>and <00:21:34.584>and <00:21:34.784>how <00:21:34.985>to <00:21:35.185>track <00:21:35.385>progress.

604
00:21:36.765 --> 00:21:38.005
<00:21:36.765>I <00:21:36.904>was <00:21:37.044>just <00:21:37.183>talking <00:21:37.323>with <00:21:37.462>someone <00:21:37.602>in <00:21:37.741>there <00:21:37.881>about

605
00:21:38.005 --> 00:21:41.045
<00:21:38.005>how <00:21:38.180>they're <00:21:38.355>constantly <00:21:38.530>working <00:21:38.705>on, <00:21:38.880>like, <00:21:39.055>they're <00:21:39.230>being <00:21:39.405>asked

606
00:21:41.045 --> 00:21:42.765
<00:21:41.045>by <00:21:41.200>product <00:21:41.356>owners <00:21:41.511>like, <00:21:41.667>well <00:21:41.822>how <00:21:41.978>much <00:21:42.133>longer <00:21:42.289>is <00:21:42.445>this

607
00:21:42.995 --> 00:21:44.005
<00:21:42.995>migration <00:21:43.449>gonna <00:21:43.904>take?

608
00:21:44.025 --> 00:21:46.165
<00:21:44.025>And <00:21:44.165>they <00:21:44.305>don't <00:21:44.445>know <00:21:44.585>how <00:21:44.725>to <00:21:44.865>communicate <00:21:45.005>how <00:21:45.145>far <00:21:45.285>they <00:21:45.425>are

609
00:21:46.685 --> 00:21:47.685
<00:21:46.685>'cause <00:21:46.865>they've <00:21:47.044>never <00:21:47.225>done <00:21:47.405>it <00:21:47.585>before.

610
00:21:48.265 --> 00:21:49.885
<00:21:48.265>And <00:21:48.440>they <00:21:48.615>keep <00:21:48.790>thinking <00:21:48.965>it's <00:21:49.140>two <00:21:49.315>more <00:21:49.490>weeks <00:21:49.665>away.

611
00:21:49.915 --> 00:21:52.485
<00:21:49.915>It's <00:21:50.055>two <00:21:50.195>more <00:21:50.335>weeks <00:21:50.475>away. <00:21:50.615>Give <00:21:50.754>us <00:21:50.895>a <00:21:51.034>few <00:21:51.175>more <00:21:51.315>weeks.

612
00:21:52.485 --> 00:21:54.085
<00:21:52.485>And <00:21:52.685>then <00:21:52.885>the <00:21:53.084>product <00:21:53.284>owner <00:21:53.485>stops <00:21:53.685>believing <00:21:53.885>them.

613
00:21:54.085 --> 00:21:55.845
<00:21:54.085>They <00:21:54.318>get <00:21:54.551>pulled, <00:21:54.785>diverted <00:21:55.018>from <00:21:55.251>the <00:21:55.485>project,

614
00:21:56.535 --> 00:21:57.845
<00:21:56.535>we'll <00:21:56.731>come <00:21:56.928>back <00:21:57.124>to <00:21:57.321>it <00:21:57.517>again <00:21:57.714>someday.

615
00:21:58.145 --> 00:22:01.285
<00:21:58.145>And <00:21:58.285>they <00:21:58.425>have, <00:21:58.565>they <00:21:58.705>have <00:21:58.845>their <00:21:58.985>GI <00:21:59.125>branch <00:21:59.264>that <00:21:59.405>gets <00:21:59.545>stale

616
00:22:01.405 --> 00:22:03.285
<00:22:01.405>for <00:22:01.560>six <00:22:01.716>months <00:22:01.871>and <00:22:02.027>then <00:22:02.182>they're <00:22:02.338>like, <00:22:02.493>where <00:22:02.649>was <00:22:02.805>I?

617
00:22:03.745 --> 00:22:05.525
<00:22:03.745>So <00:22:04.094>that <00:22:04.445>happens <00:22:04.794>a <00:22:05.145>lot.

618
00:22:05.545 --> 00:22:08.485
<00:22:05.545>And <00:22:05.672>so <00:22:05.799>helping <00:22:05.926>teams <00:22:06.054>try <00:22:06.181>to <00:22:06.308>figure <00:22:06.435>out <00:22:06.563>how <00:22:06.690>to <00:22:06.817>get <00:22:06.945>through

619
00:22:08.485 --> 00:22:09.965
<00:22:08.485>that, <00:22:08.751>that <00:22:09.017>kind <00:22:09.284>of <00:22:09.550>problem <00:22:09.817>is

620
00:22:10.095 --> 00:22:11.325
<00:22:10.095>kinda <00:22:10.279>one <00:22:10.464>of <00:22:10.648>my <00:22:10.833>missions <00:22:11.017>as <00:22:11.202>well.

621
00:22:12.115 --> 00:22:14.005
<00:22:12.115>What <00:22:12.270>would <00:22:12.426>you <00:22:12.581>say, <00:22:12.737>just <00:22:12.892>to, <00:22:13.048>to <00:22:13.203>wrap <00:22:13.359>up, <00:22:13.515>um,

622
00:22:14.005 --> 00:22:16.645
<00:22:14.005>what <00:22:14.145>would <00:22:14.285>you <00:22:14.425>say <00:22:14.565>the, <00:22:14.705>some <00:22:14.845>of <00:22:14.985>the <00:22:15.125>most <00:22:15.265>common <00:22:15.405>issues

623
00:22:16.645 --> 00:22:18.125
<00:22:16.645>that <00:22:16.867>you <00:22:17.089>encounter, <00:22:17.311>are <00:22:17.533>there <00:22:17.755>other <00:22:17.977>issues

624
00:22:18.125 --> 00:22:20.245
<00:22:18.125>that <00:22:18.280>come <00:22:18.436>up <00:22:18.591>again <00:22:18.747>and <00:22:18.902>again <00:22:19.058>in <00:22:19.213>terms <00:22:19.369>of <00:22:19.525>the,

625
00:22:20.265 --> 00:22:22.805
<00:22:20.265>the <00:22:20.465>maintenance <00:22:20.665>or <00:22:20.865>optimization <00:22:21.065>of, <00:22:21.265>of <00:22:21.465>different <00:22:21.665>projects?

626
00:22:23.145 --> 00:22:25.605
<00:22:23.145>Do <00:22:23.378>you <00:22:23.611>see <00:22:23.845>these, <00:22:24.078>these <00:22:24.311>common <00:22:24.545>probably

627
00:22:25.605 --> 00:22:26.845
<00:22:25.605>to <00:22:25.884>you <00:22:26.163>quite <00:22:26.442>obvious <00:22:26.721>mistakes

628
00:22:26.845 --> 00:22:28.485
<00:22:26.845>that <00:22:27.045>they're <00:22:27.245>making <00:22:27.445>come <00:22:27.645>up <00:22:27.845>again <00:22:28.045>and <00:22:28.245>again?

629
00:22:28.585 --> 00:22:30.285
<00:22:28.585>Or <00:22:28.865>is <00:22:29.145>every <00:22:29.425>project <00:22:29.705>different? <00:22:29.985>Every,

630
00:22:30.295 --> 00:22:31.565
<00:22:30.295>Every <00:22:30.580>project's <00:22:30.866>a <00:22:31.152>little <00:22:31.438>different.

631
00:22:31.565 --> 00:22:33.045
<00:22:31.565>And <00:22:31.731>I <00:22:31.898>think <00:22:32.064>some <00:22:32.231>the <00:22:32.397>things <00:22:32.564>that <00:22:32.730>I <00:22:32.897>noticed

632
00:22:33.045 --> 00:22:36.205
<00:22:33.045>that's <00:22:33.245>like <00:22:33.445>agnostic <00:22:33.645>of <00:22:33.845>the, <00:22:34.045>the <00:22:34.245>tech <00:22:34.445>stack,

633
00:22:37.115 --> 00:22:41.565
<00:22:37.115>it's <00:22:37.315>usually <00:22:37.515>a <00:22:37.715>prioritization <00:22:37.915>thing <00:22:38.115>that <00:22:38.315>companies <00:22:38.515>will,

634
00:22:43.025 --> 00:22:46.005
<00:22:43.025>one <00:22:43.141>of <00:22:43.258>the <00:22:43.375>most, <00:22:43.491>I <00:22:43.608>guess <00:22:43.725>say <00:22:43.841>common <00:22:43.958>things <00:22:44.075>I <00:22:44.191>see <00:22:44.308>is <00:22:44.425>like,

635
00:22:46.005 --> 00:22:47.325
<00:22:46.005>it's <00:22:46.203>this <00:22:46.401>whole <00:22:46.599>thing <00:22:46.797>of <00:22:46.995>like, <00:22:47.193>well,

636
00:22:47.545 --> 00:22:49.405
<00:22:47.545>if <00:22:47.745>they <00:22:47.945>don't <00:22:48.145>care, <00:22:48.345>why <00:22:48.545>should <00:22:48.745>I <00:22:48.945>care?

637
00:22:49.585 --> 00:22:50.685
<00:22:49.585>You <00:22:49.726>know, <00:22:49.867>type <00:22:50.009>of <00:22:50.150>thing <00:22:50.292>that <00:22:50.433>a <00:22:50.575>lot

638
00:22:50.685 --> 00:22:52.965
<00:22:50.685>of <00:22:50.825>developers <00:22:50.965>join <00:22:51.105>a <00:22:51.245>company <00:22:51.385>and <00:22:51.524>you're <00:22:51.665>hired <00:22:51.804>to <00:22:51.945>come <00:22:52.085>in

639
00:22:53.385 --> 00:22:54.765
<00:22:53.385>and <00:22:53.799>be <00:22:54.213>an <00:22:54.627>expert

640
00:22:54.985 --> 00:22:58.085
<00:22:54.985>and <00:22:55.125>you <00:22:55.264>think <00:22:55.405>that <00:22:55.544>in <00:22:55.685>a <00:22:55.824>weird <00:22:55.965>way <00:22:56.104>you're <00:22:56.245>resist, <00:22:56.385>resist,

641
00:22:58.085 --> 00:23:02.885
<00:22:58.085>you're <00:22:58.225>kind <00:22:58.365>of <00:22:58.505>hesitant <00:22:58.645>to <00:22:58.785>ask <00:22:58.925>for <00:22:59.065>permission <00:22:59.205>to <00:22:59.345>do <00:22:59.485>things.

642
00:23:02.945 --> 00:23:05.765
<00:23:02.945>And <00:23:03.085>sometimes, <00:23:03.225>like, <00:23:03.365>like <00:23:03.504>other <00:23:03.645>people <00:23:03.784>in <00:23:03.925>other <00:23:04.064>roles <00:23:04.205>in <00:23:04.345>a

643
00:23:05.765 --> 00:23:07.325
<00:23:05.765>company <00:23:05.965>don't <00:23:06.165>ask <00:23:06.365>like, <00:23:06.565>Hey, <00:23:06.765>I'm <00:23:06.965>gonna <00:23:07.165>ref

644
00:23:07.925 --> 00:23:09.925
<00:23:07.925>refactor <00:23:08.274>my <00:23:08.625>my <00:23:08.975>Excel <00:23:09.325>spreadsheet.

645
00:23:09.925 --> 00:23:11.285
<00:23:09.925>You <00:23:10.078>just <00:23:10.231>do <00:23:10.384>it <00:23:10.537>to <00:23:10.690>make <00:23:10.843>your <00:23:10.996>work <00:23:11.149>easier.

646
00:23:11.345 --> 00:23:14.965
<00:23:11.345>And <00:23:11.461>if <00:23:11.578>you <00:23:11.695>do <00:23:11.811>that <00:23:11.928>in <00:23:12.045>your <00:23:12.161>code, <00:23:12.278>like <00:23:12.395>you <00:23:12.511>just <00:23:12.628>do <00:23:12.745>it

647
00:23:15.045 --> 00:23:16.285
<00:23:15.045>to <00:23:15.324>make <00:23:15.603>your <00:23:15.882>workspace <00:23:16.161>better.

648
00:23:16.385 --> 00:23:18.085
<00:23:16.385>And <00:23:16.512>I <00:23:16.639>think <00:23:16.766>a <00:23:16.894>lot <00:23:17.021>of <00:23:17.148>people <00:23:17.275>feel <00:23:17.403>like, <00:23:17.530>well <00:23:17.657>I <00:23:17.785>didn't,

649
00:23:18.085 --> 00:23:20.405
<00:23:18.085>we <00:23:18.240>don't <00:23:18.396>get <00:23:18.551>enough <00:23:18.707>time <00:23:18.862>for <00:23:19.018>writing <00:23:19.173>more <00:23:19.329>automated <00:23:19.485>tests.

650
00:23:20.765 --> 00:23:22.205
<00:23:20.765>I <00:23:20.909>need <00:23:21.053>to <00:23:21.197>ask <00:23:21.341>for <00:23:21.485>the <00:23:21.629>permission <00:23:21.773>to <00:23:21.917>do <00:23:22.061>that.

651
00:23:22.225 --> 00:23:24.285
<00:23:22.225>And <00:23:22.380>I <00:23:22.536>think <00:23:22.691>those <00:23:22.847>types <00:23:23.002>of <00:23:23.158>things <00:23:23.313>are <00:23:23.469>the <00:23:23.625>things

652
00:23:24.285 --> 00:23:26.805
<00:23:24.285>that <00:23:24.425>I <00:23:24.565>see <00:23:24.705>happen <00:23:24.845>more <00:23:24.985>often <00:23:25.125>as <00:23:25.265>developers <00:23:25.405>fall <00:23:25.545>into <00:23:25.685>a,

653
00:23:27.315 --> 00:23:29.245
<00:23:27.315>well, <00:23:27.515>I, <00:23:27.715>I <00:23:27.915>wasn't <00:23:28.115>asked <00:23:28.315>to <00:23:28.515>do <00:23:28.715>it

654
00:23:29.625 --> 00:23:33.205
<00:23:29.625>or <00:23:29.741>I <00:23:29.858>I <00:23:29.975>wasn't, <00:23:30.091>wasn't <00:23:30.208>ready <00:23:30.325>to <00:23:30.441>ask <00:23:30.558>for <00:23:30.675>permission <00:23:30.791>to <00:23:30.908>do <00:23:31.025>it.

655
00:23:33.345 --> 00:23:35.845
<00:23:33.345>And <00:23:33.545>so <00:23:33.745>I <00:23:33.945>think <00:23:34.145>there's <00:23:34.345>like, <00:23:34.545>and <00:23:34.745>because,

656
00:23:35.865 --> 00:23:37.565
<00:23:35.865>and <00:23:36.040>then <00:23:36.215>they <00:23:36.390>see <00:23:36.565>other <00:23:36.740>people <00:23:36.915>not, <00:23:37.090>or <00:23:37.265>they,

657
00:23:37.865 --> 00:23:40.485
<00:23:37.865>and <00:23:38.040>the <00:23:38.215>other <00:23:38.390>thing <00:23:38.565>is <00:23:38.740>like <00:23:38.915>people <00:23:39.090>bring <00:23:39.265>up

658
00:23:41.145 --> 00:23:43.885
<00:23:41.145>and <00:23:41.272>then <00:23:41.399>one <00:23:41.526>of <00:23:41.654>the, <00:23:41.781>another <00:23:41.908>really <00:23:42.035>sad <00:23:42.163>thing <00:23:42.290>would <00:23:42.417>be <00:23:42.545>when

659
00:23:43.885 --> 00:23:46.885
<00:23:43.885>an <00:23:44.025>organization <00:23:44.165>I'll <00:23:44.305>talk <00:23:44.445>to <00:23:44.585>talk <00:23:44.725>to <00:23:44.865>developers <00:23:45.004>at <00:23:45.145>a <00:23:45.285>company

660
00:23:46.885 --> 00:23:48.045
<00:23:46.885>and <00:23:47.034>they're <00:23:47.183>like, <00:23:47.332>oh, <00:23:47.481>if <00:23:47.630>we're <00:23:47.779>losing <00:23:47.929>somebody

661
00:23:48.045 --> 00:23:50.205
<00:23:48.045>and <00:23:48.185>like <00:23:48.325>they'll <00:23:48.465>ask <00:23:48.605>me <00:23:48.745>to <00:23:48.885>like <00:23:49.025>maybe <00:23:49.165>participate <00:23:49.305>in <00:23:49.445>a

662
00:23:50.205 --> 00:23:51.245
<00:23:50.205>technical <00:23:50.673>exit <00:23:51.140>interview,

663
00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:53.045
<00:23:51.655>which <00:23:51.863>is <00:23:52.072>like <00:23:52.280>an <00:23:52.489>interesting <00:23:52.697>to <00:23:52.906>do.

664
00:23:53.155 --> 00:23:54.565
<00:23:53.155>Like <00:23:53.366>why <00:23:53.578>are <00:23:53.789>you <00:23:54.001>leaving <00:23:54.212>the <00:23:54.424>organization?

665
00:23:54.565 --> 00:23:56.005
<00:23:54.565>Like, <00:23:54.750>talk <00:23:54.935>to <00:23:55.120>me, <00:23:55.305>I <00:23:55.490>was <00:23:55.675>a <00:23:55.861>developer

666
00:23:56.005 --> 00:23:58.005
<00:23:56.005>that <00:23:56.160>has <00:23:56.316>no <00:23:56.471>skin <00:23:56.627>in <00:23:56.782>this <00:23:56.938>game <00:23:57.093>at <00:23:57.249>your <00:23:57.405>company.

667
00:23:58.305 --> 00:23:59.925
<00:23:58.305>And <00:23:58.505>they'll <00:23:58.705>be <00:23:58.905>like, <00:23:59.105>well, <00:23:59.305>I <00:23:59.505>brought <00:23:59.705>up

668
00:24:00.595 --> 00:24:01.965
<00:24:00.595>this <00:24:00.903>issue <00:24:01.211>six <00:24:01.519>months <00:24:01.828>ago.

669
00:24:02.025 --> 00:24:03.845
<00:24:02.025>And <00:24:02.305>they <00:24:02.585>said, <00:24:02.865>not <00:24:03.145>right <00:24:03.425>now.

670
00:24:03.905 --> 00:24:06.005
<00:24:03.905>How <00:24:04.045>about <00:24:04.185>in <00:24:04.325>a, <00:24:04.465>you <00:24:04.605>maybe <00:24:04.745>asking <00:24:04.885>in <00:24:05.024>a <00:24:05.165>month <00:24:05.305>again.

671
00:24:06.005 --> 00:24:07.805
<00:24:06.005>So <00:24:06.145>they <00:24:06.285>do <00:24:06.425>another <00:24:06.565>time <00:24:06.705>and <00:24:06.845>they're <00:24:06.985>like, <00:24:07.125>not <00:24:07.265>right <00:24:07.405>now.

672
00:24:08.225 --> 00:24:10.085
<00:24:08.225>And <00:24:08.504>then <00:24:08.784>they <00:24:09.064>stop <00:24:09.344>asking. <00:24:09.625>Mm-Hmm.

673
00:24:10.165 --> 00:24:11.925
<00:24:10.165>And <00:24:10.365>then, <00:24:10.565>and <00:24:10.764>then <00:24:10.965>they, <00:24:11.165>they <00:24:11.365>just <00:24:11.565>think

674
00:24:11.925 --> 00:24:13.045
<00:24:11.925>that <00:24:12.069>the <00:24:12.213>option <00:24:12.357>is <00:24:12.501>they <00:24:12.645>need <00:24:12.789>to <00:24:12.933>leave

675
00:24:13.625 --> 00:24:15.005
<00:24:13.625>and <00:24:13.873>find <00:24:14.121>another <00:24:14.370>job <00:24:14.618>somewhere <00:24:14.867>else.

676
00:24:15.005 --> 00:24:16.765
<00:24:15.005>Like <00:24:15.180>it'll, <00:24:15.355>the <00:24:15.530>grass <00:24:15.705>will <00:24:15.880>be <00:24:16.055>green <00:24:16.230>over <00:24:16.405>there

677
00:24:16.765 --> 00:24:18.525
<00:24:16.765>and <00:24:16.965>then <00:24:17.165>they <00:24:17.365>find <00:24:17.565>out <00:24:17.765>that <00:24:17.965>that <00:24:18.165>happens

678
00:24:18.525 --> 00:24:19.565
<00:24:18.525>over <00:24:18.759>there <00:24:18.993>as <00:24:19.227>well <00:24:19.461>sometimes.

679
00:24:19.665 --> 00:24:24.045
<00:24:19.665>So <00:24:19.820>those <00:24:19.976>are, <00:24:20.131>that's <00:24:20.287>just <00:24:20.442>a <00:24:20.598>common <00:24:20.753>story <00:24:20.909>that <00:24:21.065>happens.

680
00:24:24.105 --> 00:24:26.325
<00:24:24.105>And <00:24:24.280>I <00:24:24.455>don't <00:24:24.630>know <00:24:24.805>how <00:24:24.980>to <00:24:25.155>fix <00:24:25.330>it <00:24:25.505>necessarily,

681
00:24:26.385 --> 00:24:28.765
<00:24:26.385>but <00:24:26.492>I <00:24:26.600>do <00:24:26.708>think <00:24:26.815>it's <00:24:26.923>a <00:24:27.031>thing <00:24:27.138>that <00:24:27.246>we <00:24:27.354>need <00:24:27.461>to <00:24:27.569>talk <00:24:27.677>about <00:24:27.785>more.

682
00:24:28.765 --> 00:24:30.565
<00:24:28.765>Like <00:24:29.045>if <00:24:29.325>you're <00:24:29.605>seeing <00:24:29.885>someone <00:24:30.165>advocate

683
00:24:30.565 --> 00:24:34.645
<00:24:30.565>for <00:24:30.720>something <00:24:30.876>right <00:24:31.031>now <00:24:31.187>on <00:24:31.342>your <00:24:31.498>team, <00:24:31.653>please <00:24:31.809>like, <00:24:31.965>like,

684
00:24:34.645 --> 00:24:36.245
<00:24:34.645>hey, <00:24:34.785>I <00:24:34.925>agree <00:24:35.065>with <00:24:35.205>you <00:24:35.345>and <00:24:35.485>like <00:24:35.625>how <00:24:35.764>can <00:24:35.905>I <00:24:36.045>help,

685
00:24:36.785 --> 00:24:38.205
<00:24:36.785>you <00:24:37.104>know, <00:24:37.424>politic <00:24:37.743>for <00:24:38.062>that.

686
00:24:38.305 --> 00:24:40.245
<00:24:38.305>You <00:24:38.460>know, <00:24:38.616>whatever <00:24:38.771>we <00:24:38.927>can <00:24:39.082>do <00:24:39.238>to <00:24:39.393>help <00:24:39.549>gain <00:24:39.705>some

687
00:24:40.245 --> 00:24:41.405
<00:24:40.245>influence <00:24:40.505>with <00:24:40.766>the <00:24:41.028>product <00:24:41.289>owner.

688
00:24:41.465 --> 00:24:43.725
<00:24:41.465>Or <00:24:41.665>like, <00:24:41.865>how <00:24:42.064>can <00:24:42.264>we <00:24:42.465>just <00:24:42.665>do <00:24:42.865>this

689
00:24:44.305 --> 00:24:45.645
<00:24:44.305>behind <00:24:44.606>the <00:24:44.908>scenes <00:24:45.209>on <00:24:45.511>something

690
00:24:45.645 --> 00:24:47.645
<00:24:45.645>and <00:24:45.772>like <00:24:45.899>we'll <00:24:46.026>sink <00:24:46.154>in <00:24:46.281>some <00:24:46.408>extra <00:24:46.535>hours <00:24:46.663>and <00:24:46.790>do <00:24:46.917>this <00:24:47.045>thing

691
00:24:47.645 --> 00:24:50.165
<00:24:47.645>and <00:24:47.772>make <00:24:47.899>our <00:24:48.026>life <00:24:48.154>better <00:24:48.281>and <00:24:48.408>then <00:24:48.535>we <00:24:48.663>can <00:24:48.790>share <00:24:48.917>like, <00:24:49.045>look

692
00:24:50.165 --> 00:24:51.965
<00:24:50.165>what <00:24:50.365>we <00:24:50.565>did <00:24:50.764>and <00:24:50.965>like, <00:24:51.165>can <00:24:51.365>we <00:24:51.565>do

693
00:24:51.965 --> 00:24:53.005
<00:24:51.965>more <00:24:52.098>of <00:24:52.232>this <00:24:52.366>and <00:24:52.499>this <00:24:52.633>will <00:24:52.767>be <00:24:52.901>great.

694
00:24:53.005 --> 00:24:54.565
<00:24:53.005>And <00:24:53.238>like, <00:24:53.471>I <00:24:53.705>think <00:24:53.938>celebrating <00:24:54.171>those <00:24:54.405>victories

695
00:24:54.565 --> 00:24:59.005
<00:24:54.565>and <00:24:54.720>cheer, <00:24:54.876>you <00:24:55.031>know, <00:24:55.187>applauding <00:24:55.342>your <00:24:55.498>people <00:24:55.653>for <00:24:55.809>speaking <00:24:55.965>up

696
00:24:59.085 --> 00:25:00.845
<00:24:59.085>and <00:24:59.240>asking <00:24:59.396>for <00:24:59.551>things, <00:24:59.707>but <00:24:59.862>then <00:25:00.018>also <00:25:00.173>maybe <00:25:00.329>actually <00:25:00.485>helping

697
00:25:00.845 --> 00:25:03.405
<00:25:00.845>them <00:25:00.985>figure <00:25:01.125>out, <00:25:01.265>'cause <00:25:01.405>sometimes <00:25:01.545>a <00:25:01.685>lot <00:25:01.825>people <00:25:01.965>will <00:25:02.105>also <00:25:02.245>ask

698
00:25:03.405 --> 00:25:05.925
<00:25:03.405>for <00:25:03.545>like <00:25:03.685>a <00:25:03.825>really <00:25:03.965>big <00:25:04.105>thing, <00:25:04.245>which <00:25:04.385>is <00:25:04.524>hard <00:25:04.665>to <00:25:04.805>approve,

699
00:25:05.945 --> 00:25:08.285
<00:25:05.945>but <00:25:06.072>if <00:25:06.199>like, <00:25:06.326>how <00:25:06.454>about <00:25:06.581>we <00:25:06.708>take <00:25:06.835>that <00:25:06.963>first <00:25:07.090>step <00:25:07.217>or <00:25:07.345>two?

700
00:25:08.315 --> 00:25:10.525
<00:25:08.315>Like <00:25:08.595>let's, <00:25:08.875>let's <00:25:09.155>do <00:25:09.435>the <00:25:09.715>one

701
00:25:10.525 --> 00:25:11.805
<00:25:10.525>or <00:25:10.813>two <00:25:11.101>day <00:25:11.389>thing <00:25:11.677>that's

702
00:25:12.105 --> 00:25:13.365
<00:25:12.105>to <00:25:12.294>work <00:25:12.483>towards <00:25:12.672>the <00:25:12.861>one <00:25:13.050>month <00:25:13.239>project

703
00:25:13.585 --> 00:25:14.845
<00:25:13.585>or <00:25:13.811>the <00:25:14.038>six <00:25:14.265>month <00:25:14.492>project, <00:25:14.719>whatever.

704
00:25:14.845 --> 00:25:16.885
<00:25:14.845>But <00:25:14.985>I <00:25:15.125>think <00:25:15.265>you <00:25:15.405>need <00:25:15.545>to <00:25:15.685>work <00:25:15.825>on <00:25:15.965>this <00:25:16.105>smaller <00:25:16.245>steps.

705
00:25:17.465 --> 00:25:19.365
<00:25:17.465>That's <00:25:17.639>really <00:25:17.814>interesting. <00:25:17.990>I <00:25:18.165>suppose <00:25:18.340>it <00:25:18.514>goes <00:25:18.689>back <00:25:18.865>to

706
00:25:19.365 --> 00:25:21.765
<00:25:19.365>that <00:25:19.481>point <00:25:19.598>of, <00:25:19.715>uh, <00:25:19.831>you <00:25:19.948>know, <00:25:20.065>there's <00:25:20.181>a <00:25:20.298>lot <00:25:20.415>more <00:25:20.531>to <00:25:20.648>to <00:25:20.765>coding

707
00:25:21.765 --> 00:25:24.405
<00:25:21.765>and <00:25:21.940>development <00:25:22.115>than <00:25:22.290>than <00:25:22.465>syntax, <00:25:22.640>you <00:25:22.815>know, <00:25:22.990>the <00:25:23.165>people.

708
00:25:24.705 --> 00:25:27.125
<00:25:24.705>Um, <00:25:24.832>and <00:25:24.959>the, <00:25:25.086>the <00:25:25.214>politics <00:25:25.341>as <00:25:25.468>you <00:25:25.595>said <00:25:25.723>are <00:25:25.850>just <00:25:25.977>as <00:25:26.105>important.

709
00:25:27.625 --> 00:25:29.445
<00:25:27.625>Robbie, <00:25:27.858>uh, <00:25:28.091>just <00:25:28.325>to <00:25:28.558>say <00:25:28.791>thanks <00:25:29.025>again

710
00:25:29.445 --> 00:25:30.485
<00:25:29.445>for <00:25:29.632>joining <00:25:29.819>us <00:25:30.006>for <00:25:30.193>this <00:25:30.380>episode.

711
00:25:30.525 --> 00:25:31.485
<00:25:30.525>I <00:25:30.648>hope <00:25:30.771>you <00:25:30.895>enjoy <00:25:31.018>the <00:25:31.142>rest <00:25:31.265>of <00:25:31.389>the

712
00:25:31.485 --> 00:25:32.685
<00:25:31.485>merge <00:25:31.665>and <00:25:31.844>uh, <00:25:32.024>thanks <00:25:32.205>for <00:25:32.385>joining <00:25:32.565>us.

713
00:25:32.685 --> 00:25:33.645
<00:25:32.685>Thank <00:25:32.857>you. <00:25:33.030>Thanks <00:25:33.203>for <00:25:33.376>having <00:25:33.549>me.